ALINGHI

[Real Deal]

I just heard that alinghi was almost killed on the weekend in america when it burst through a barricade and ran across a 4 lane highway.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[boxhead]

G'day,
4tab radio this morning said it is racing thursday morning our time.
Talking to owner and trainer tomorrow morning on same.
cheers

[Mr ed]

The race she was entered in was scrapped, they were all scared of her and there wasn't enough acceptances. She is now due to run towards the end of the month. Frankel also stated that the reports Alinghi had gotten loose were entirely false.

[Shaun]

As much as i never liked her i am glad she is in the US to show them what a good Aussie horse can do.......no offence to any yanks on here but i visit a couple of other US sites and for some reason they think they have the best horses in the world......if i had the cash i would take a good aussie trainer over there with a few horse to prove they are not the only ones that have champions

[Chuck]

i was hooked on Alinghi after her Blue Diamond win.....a great horse

[maverick1993]

heard she was starting first up in a 1800m race ? ridiculous ..

don't be surprised to see her race over a shorter distance on dirt in the next couple of weeks..

[Chuck]

yeah, and 1700m Grade 3 is what i heard...still wrong because she is best at 1200-1600m

[Mr ed]

I loved the horse, backed her @ her first start and never jumped off. Biggest wins on her was a all up Special Harmony $1.35 into Lonhro $1.70 into Alinghi $2.35 on diamond day, all looked absolute morals and ended up paying over $5. And had a huge go in the Newmarket. Don't know how anyone couldn't like her she was just so good, i wish i could get over to the States to back the **************** out of her first-up, against anyone, any surface, over any distance.

[maverick1993]

should be able to bet on her here Mr ed ,,i'm sure IAS will give a market..

[Mr ed]

I hope so, thought there were laws against using their races however, thats why i thought Betfair wouldn't operate on their races. Even if they did frame a market for Australia, what odds are going to be available for her, no-ones gunna wanna back the yank's donkeys against our superstar. I know a few people on here would if they were value, but as a whole; no halfway decent odds could be attainable for Alinghi with an Australian firm holding the bets IMO.

[Real Deal]

well the time has finally come!

Alinghi to run tonight (early tomorrow morning). Does anyone know if we will be able to watch live?

[Sportz]

Don't know about TV, but 2KY's going to broadcast it live and I assume other stations may possibly do something similar.

[saratoga samchaz]

ALINGHI post time is 4:47 p.m. EDT. It seems like 14 hrs ahead is the standard for most of the post times in Australia compared to US. For instance, most of your racing cards start at 10 P.M. EDT here the night before your early afternoon. So I guess depending where you are it will be early morning for you Tuesday. I'm looking at the Daily RAcing Form for the race right now and will give everyone my UNBIASED Yank opinion.

[saratoga samchaz]

Oh by the way, rain is supposedly on it's way so the turf may be good to soft. I know one thing, New Orleans is about to get demolished by Hurricane Katrina in about 4 hours. The whole city of 4 million was told to evacuate and they are using the Superdome football stadium as a shelter for anyone unable to get out. Really bad stuff in a city that's highest point is one foot above sea level.

[maverick1993]

was there a couple of months ago ..the highlight of my trip to the states .. its hard to imagine what they are going though..
Been watching the coverage on cable here...and it looks real bad ..
thoughts and prayers for all concerned :(

[Mark]

Mr Ed, et al, Betfair bet on US races every day, and it's mainly UK money, so Alinghi won't mean a thing to them.

[saratoga samchaz]

ALINGHI looks all the class in this race with only a couple of others racing well consistently at the Graded Levels. Ironically, this turf race looks full of speed with at over half the field wantig the lead or just off it and from the way our form reads, Alinghi looks to show early speed and have Edgar Prado postion her just behind the first pack of speedsters. The others trying this tactic should be

#6 Stupendous Miss (trained by Wallace Dollase 6-1-1-1 at Sar 2005 w/ Gary Stevens up)
#11 Snowdrops (Cristophe Clemente 16-4-2-1 Sar 2005 w/ Jerry Bailey up after opting off #7 Delta Princess trained by his main emplyer Bill Mott)
#12 Que Puntual (Angel Penna,Jr. 10-1-3-1 Sar 2005 w/ Cornelio Velasquez)
and of course #10 Alinghi (Bobby Frankel (33-6-7-4 Sar 2005 w/ Prado 20% wins Sar 2005)


Behind these should be
#3 Spring Season (Johnathon Sheppard 21-1-2-3 SAr2005 w/ Ramon Dominguez-great turf rider from my neck of the woods giving it a go at the best meet in the United States, Sheppard also stables at Delaware Park and is known for his turf and steeplechase expertise although he has tailed off as late)
#7 Delta Princess (Mott 54-8-13-8 Sar2005 w/ Robbie Albarado)
#8 Cloak of Vagueness (Phil Hauswald (7-1-0-0 Sar 2005 w/ Eibar Coa another Del Park rider up)
#9 Risakverse (PJ Kelly 27-3-1-2 Sar 2005 after winning 2 races on Sat. w/Jose Santos up)

all trying to make one late run on the top two flights.

If the turf comes up soft to good as it might, it may stop the horses up front and favor the closers. Frankel says Alinghi will be closing at this distance and that she was a bleeder in Australia, so the lasix should help her get this distance.

Personally, I feel that the distance may be too much for Alinghi (1 1/16 miles) and that she will make a big run, but fall short in this one due to so many factors working against her including the bad post position, the first race in North America and in 5 months, and the different type of racing than she is used to.

She certainly is the class of this field but I fell that her connections have MUCH bigger goals than the Ballston Spa on a Monday afternoon at Saratoga. She may be in for a good tune up for the fall Breeder Cup preps and the F+M turf at 1 3/8 M. She would be no surprise however if she won.

I will play #8 cloak of VAugeness and # 9 Riskaverse (who one time was a classy graded performer and may be getting back to her old self, Not to mention she likes the Saratoga course and PJ Kelly is on a small roll)
followed by #10 Alinghi, #3 Spring Season, and #12 Que Puntual.

8-9-10,3,12

Good Luck mates down under and no matter what happens here, there is a whole lot more racing ahead for Alinghi.

[brave chief]

Lets hope the Lasix can have the same affect on Alinghi that it had on Keep The Faith.

I just hope Alinghi isn't ridden for speed. US turf races are run at a much stonger clip than here. But what she does have is a world-class sprint. I'd ride her cold, just get in behind them before the clubhouse turn & stoke her up from the 600m. Its her only hope first-up over that distance.

[saratoga samchaz]

THIs whole distance question made me think of something. Why doesn't the Breeder's Cup have a turf sprint at 6 furlongs or so! Not the mile (which may be what Frankel is really pointing Alinghi for instead of F+M Turf at 1 3/8 m.), but an honest to goodness rip and roar turf sprint for turf horses lackin stamina. Or if they don't like that idea, how about the Breeder's Cup Claiming Plate for cheapies to show how souped up these tracks are for big days over here. When these claimers come home in 1:08.3 for 6 f, we'll all know how good the rest of the times are! LOL!

[saratoga samchaz]

A couple of weird twists for today's race that only a superstitious horse player could think of. My dog is an Australian Shepherd (Kerry- named after Co. Kerry, Ireland), Bobby Frankel is huge animal lover who has two Aussies himself, Bobby trains Alinghi (from Oz), #3 Spring Season's dam is ALICE SPRINGS(Val de L'Orne FR) and trained by Englishman Johnathon Shepherd, #8 CLoak of Vagueness is sired by El Prado*Ire and was last ridden by E. Prado who now rides Alinghi. If you throw in the whole historical England shipping out unwanted Irish to Australia you have the easy trifecta. Alinghi, Cloak, and Spring Season. It's that easy, but don't leave out that hard-knocking Riskaverse who has no connection at all but may be ready to go if her slight ankle injury is healed up.

[saratoga samchaz]

ALINGHI is 1-1 with 3 minutes to post. No one else is under 9-1. I won't put the results on here so you can see it or listen to it yourself. They're in the gate!

[Sportz]

SS,

I have to say that your racecallers over there don't even come close to ours.

[saratoga samchaz]

Tom Durkin is a bit of an ass. You can certainly tell who he has. He loves Jerry Bailey. Check out Trevor Denman in California (Del Mar)("And away they go"). He's very clear and calls an exciting race, putting some color in it. He's South African I think. Did they broadcast the call from Saratoga or was it just somebody on TV??? I wondered how you guys would rate the race call. Dave Johnson is another announcer who has an overdone catch phrase (and down the stretch they come). Alright in a big stretch duel amongst good horses, but in a cheap maiden claimer, it gets old.

[Mark]

Alinghi far too good.

The bloke from Bay Meadows is entertaining. "And theeeeeeeeeeeere they goooooooooo".

[saratoga samchaz]

FA!!!! Contiinental Reins just won the 9th at Saratoga and I tapped out early today. Been waiting for him (or it-gelding) to run back since late July. Hope he doesn't pay much. Bunch of seconds got me earlier. Doesn't matter what hemisphere your in, it's always the same! And the horse the finished second is trained by ANgel Penna.

[saratoga samchaz]

He wasn't too entertaining yesterday when he was beating me in every race!! LOL!

[Mark]

hehehe, he's got the day off today.

[Raw Instinct]

So did Alinghi win?

[Sportz]

Not sure who the caller was, but he just didn't seem to put any excitement into it at all. And how many were in the race, because he only called the first 3 or 4 over the line, another thing that we just couldn't get used to over here.

A good win by Alinghi. At least I think it was a good win. A bit hard to tell from the lack of excitement in the call. What did you think, SS?

[Shaun]

Kiwi's have the most excitable callers followed by the Aussie's if i had to listen to Yankee callers all day it would be enough to make me give up the punt

[Mark]

I thought it was a very good win.
First up over 1700m, came from about 8 lengths off the fast pace, took the lead on the turn, (seemed to be a short staight), won untouched by about a length and a half.

[Raw Instinct]

I couldn't agree more there Shaun don't know who that Kiwi caller is but he is going to have a heart attack with the effort he puts into it one day. Also agree with everyone on the US race callers they just do not seem to be able to get very excited about the race, IMO the race caller makes the races I am pretty happy with what we have here in Australia but I couldn't stand listening to the US Callers for more than a couple of races.

[Real Deal]

How come the yanks are so much more advanced than the rest of the world (maybe bar asia) when it comes to technial stuff like camera work etc. I think i just witnessed the worst race i have ever seen from a spectators point of view. For the whole first half of the race they never showed alinghi who was in 6th place, let alone any other horse who was behind her (i still cant work out how many ran the actual race).

Could you imagine having a bet on a horse you liked and it finishes 4th or 5th but cause it is a backmarker you actually never see it in the race and it never gets called cause the caller calls positions 1st, 2nd and 3rd plus the favourite. I would end up having to check that it actually jumped out of the barriers to know that my horse went round the track.

I am not sure what the audience is like in america or what there $$ are like in the industry, but i dare say a good aussie race caller could definately make a good pay packet and get the crowd right involved like they do downhere.

[brave chief]

Alinghi far too good.

The bloke from Bay Meadows is entertaining. "And theeeeeeeeeeeere they goooooooooo".

Mark, that guy gets on my nerves :p But the most annoying caller over there is the guy that does the Fort Erie meetings with his "Uurrrrr they're oofffff". Bloody annoying when you have to watch the start maybe 5 to 10 times a race.

[Mark]

Saratoga - August 29th, 2005 - Race 8
Race name: Ballston Spa Breeders' Cup H. Grade: 3
Stakes - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward Fillies and Mares One And One Sixteenth Miles On The Turf
Purse: $200,000
Includes: $100,000 ( Breeders Cup )
Available Money: $216,300
Value of Race: $135,966 1st $69,780, 2nd $23,260, 3rd $21,630, 4th $10,815, 5th $6,489, 6th $723, 7th $723, 8th $723, 9th $723, 10th $389, 11th $711
Reverts: $80,334
Weather: Cloudy Track: Good
Off at: 4:48 Start: Good for all

Pgm HorseName (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP SP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Fin Odds
10 Alinghi (AUS) (Prado, E.S.) 119 L 9 8 6-3 6-3 5-1/2 3-1/2 1-1 1/4 0.90*
12 Que Puntual (ARG) (Velasquez, C.H.) 118 L 11 9 4-3 4-2 1/2 3-2 1/2 1-1/2 2-Neck 6.70
7 Delta Princess (Albarado, R.) 118 L 6 5 7-Head 8-1 6-Head 6-Head 3-Neck 11.10
4 Finery (Castellano, J.) 116 L 3 4 5-5 1/2 5-4 1/2 4-1/2 4-1/2 4-1 1/2 24.75
3 Spring Season (Dominguez, R.A.) 115 L 2 2 8-1/2 7-1/2 10-2 7-Head 5-1 3/4 30.00
8 Cloakof Vagueness (Coa, E.) 115 L f 7 11 11 10-2 8-Head 8-2 1/2 6-Nose 14.50
1 La Reina (Velazquez, J.R.) 114 L 1 3 3-2 1/2 2-Head 2-1 2-Head 7-1 11.50
9 Riskaverse (Santos, J.A.) 118 L f 8 7 10-Head 11 11 10-8 8-3/4 16.60
11 Snowdrops (GB) (Bailey, J.D.) 116 L 10 10 9-2 9-Head 9-1/2 9-1 9-3 1/4 17.60
5 Lentil (Chavez, J.F.) 115 L b 4 1 1-2 1/2 1-1 1/2 1-1/2 5-1/2 10-7 1/2 42.50
6 Stupendous Miss (Migliore, R.) 115 L 5 6 2-Head 3-2 7-1 1/2 11 11 9.90
Fractional Times: 22.78, 45.88, 1:10.05, 1:34.14, 1:40.30

Winner: Alinghi (AUS) - Dark Bay or Brown Filly, August 20, 2001
Bred by Piney Ridge Pty Ltd in AUS
Pedigree: Encosta de Lago - Oceanfast (AUS) , by Monde Bleu (GB)
Scratched Horses: Aesculus, Provincial, Capeside Lady, Ender's Sister, Path of Thunder


Pgm Horse Win Place Show Total WPS Pool: $543,015
10 Alinghi (AUS) 3.80 3.00 2.80
12 Que Puntual (ARG) 5.10 4.10
7 Delta Princess 4.70


Wager Type Winning Numbers Payoff Pool Carryover
$2 Exacta 10-12 23.80 468,995
$2 Superfecta 10-12-7-4 1,316.00 124,598
$2 Trifecta 10-12-7 120.00 309,902

Pgm Comment
10 Alinghi (AUS): unhurried early, advanced inside, 4 wide move, drew clear late
12 Que Puntual (ARG): in hand inside, split rivals, 3 wide move, dug in gamely stretch
7 Delta Princess: outrun early, 4 wide move second turn, game finish outside
4 Finery: rated along inside, saved ground, inside move, game finish
3 Spring Season: rated along inside, inside move second turn, stayed on well
8 Cloakof Vagueness: outrun early, inside trip, no rally
1 La Reina: close up inside, chased pace, middle move, tired stretch
9 Riskaverse: outrun early, swung widest for drive, no rally
11 Snowdrops (GB): outrun early, 3 wide trip, no response when roused
5 Lentil: hustled clear, set strong pace, tired stretch
6 Stupendous Miss: speed 3 wide, chased pace, tired after three quarters
Footnotes
ALINGHI (AUS) was unhurried early on, advanced inside into the stretch turn, rallied four wide approaching the stretch, ran by the leaders leaving the eighth pole and drew clear under a drive. QUE PUNTUAL (ARG) raced in hand along the inside early, split rivals on the second turn, rallied three wide into the stretch, reached the front in upper stretch and dug in gamely but could not contain the winner. DELTA PRINCESS was outrun early, rallied four wide on the second turn and finished gamely outside. FINERY was rated along inside, saved ground, rallied inside into the stretch and finished gamely. SPRING SEASON was rated along early, advanced inside on the second turn and stayed on well to the finish. CLOAKOF VAGUENESS was outrun early, raced inside and lacked a rally. LA REINA raced close up inside, chased the pace, put in a run on the second turn and tired in the stretch. RISKAVERSE was outrun early, swung widest into the stretch and had no rally. SNOWDROPS (GB) was outrun early, raced three wide and had no response when roused. LENTIL was hustled out to a clear lead,set a strong pace and tired in the stretch. STUPENDOUS MISS chased the pace while three wide and tired after three quarters.

[Mark]

Brave Chief, yeah he used to annoy me, but after listening to the others he now makes me laugh. I reckon the worst is the guy who calls Calder & Turf Paradise. Every race is the same slow drawl, "and they're off.................................................for the lead..........................................400m into the race & he's called maybe 1 or 2 runners.

[brave chief]

Look at those sectionals for 1700m. They dont muck about over there.

[saratoga samchaz]

Sportz, Alinghi was extremely impressive if your ask me. First up, sat a great trip, and was under a hand ride from what I understand. I listened to it at work on the computer and was bored as well with the call. In Durkin's defense, he is very clear in his enunciation at least but no excitement, unless he has the winner! He must have tried to beat the champ. However, Alinghi didn't face much of anybody and definitely not the best in America, let alone Europe. She may be the best of all though when it's all said and done. It is so hard to tell when you beat nothing. I guess you have to give a lot of credit to any horse that can ship half way around the world, experience two summers in a year, and win like that first up from the 10 hole, first time over the track, etc etc etc.!!!!

She definitely go the distance and while posting last night I saw she could get the mile no problem with 2 wins and a 2nd. Where is she gonna go in the Breeder's Cup??????

[Sportz]

I am not sure what the audience is like in america or what there $$ are like in the industry, but i dare say a good aussie race caller could definately make a good pay packet and get the crowd right involved like they do downhere.

A Qld racecaller Michael Rona went over there about 15 years or so ago and became one of the leading callers at Hollywood Park and a few other top tracks. He became famous for calling Cigar's American record breaking win and several other top races. He's also the guy who called that race in the hit show Seinfeld. You know the one when Kramer overheard the tip on the subway.

He said that he was pressured a bit when he went there to only call the first 3 or 4 horses over the line and to change his style, but he didn't go along with that and always called just as he had done in Australia. He got into a bit of trouble for using some expressions because the Americans just couldn't understand them. One good one was when a jockey was on a horse that was doing it easily and he said that "he had something up his sleeve". A lot of people actually thought he must have been referring to some sort of illegal device!

By the way, there was another track he went to where the punters were EXTREMELY superstitious and he got accused of putting a jinx on certain jockeys simply by mentioning how well they were going. For example, one jockey had ridden several winners on the program and was coming up to a possible record in the last race. When he mentioned that and the jockey subsequently lost, a lot of the punters blamed him for for the loss by daring to mention it! So, after that, whenever a jockey was doing extremely well, he had to refrain from even saying a thing.

[saratoga samchaz]

Sportz, I forgot about Rona. He was good but the thing is, every time a foreign annoncer comes over here he gets mistaken for Trevor Denman, even though it is South African, Aussie, English, Irish, etc. The majority of Americans sadly do fit the ugly American stereotype, but ya gotta give 'em what they want. Marshall Cassidy was always my favorite (Durkin replaced him on New York circuit). He had a way of delaying a split second after the start that gave you a great sense of anticipation, then called the early parts of the race slowly, gradually picking it up until he was at a frenetic pace if it was a good finish. his best calls came in EASY GOER's races, especially the Belmont Stakes. I don't know why US announcers don't call the whole field at the finish but they usually will give every horse a call at some point. Also, every country has their own lingo and it would certainly confuse anyone if they didn't understand the jargon; like FA!!!!!

[saratoga samchaz]

That's right. My buddy just told me we say FA also, F'in A!!!!

[saratoga samchaz]

If Durkin had a sense of humour, he would of said something like "G'day Alinghi and welcome to America" or the like. I guess he doesn't want to piss any one off who tried to beat her.

[xanadu]

Question:
Alinghi wins first-up over 1700m in America. Similarly, in Europe this is not an unusual occurrence to see horses embarking on such campaigns.
In Australia, we would be horrified to see such demands put on our elite performers so early in their campaigns.
I know that particularly in Europe the soft tracks certainly assist in the longevity of a horse's racing career compared to our relatively flint hard surfaces here.
Also, I notice that particularly in England it is not unusual for horses to be allowed to amble over undulating hills at a steady pace to get fit for a first up tilt over a distance in excess of 1600m.
This leads me to ask: "do we pamper our horses too much here in Australia?"
Any views on this matter?

Cheers.

[saratoga samchaz]

One factor in American horses winning first up may be the recent "fad" in training horses in a Chantilly long, stamina buildg gallops. Our horses are already bred to death for speed so that doesn't have to be trained per se. Michael Dickinson trains his horses on a long undualting course at his Tapeta Farm in nearby North East, Maryland on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. It's a beautiful facility and has been the training grounds for perhaps (NO Definitely!) the most astounding semi-first up win in horse racing history. DA HOSS won the Breeder's Cup mile off one cheap prep race after being off for 2 years(having won the BC mile that year as well). I remember watching the race and not even being surprised he won; that's how much Dickinson's reputation speaks. I was sure mad I didn't bet him though! He also won the DeFrancis Dash (G1) at Laurel race course in Maryland with A HUEVO in a similar fashion. His website is excellent (TAPETA.COM) and shows a map of where the farm is and where I live (Wilmington, Delaware) for the US geaographic newbies. Tapeta is about 1/2 an hour away from me and I sometimes have to work at the adjacent breeding farm (Michael+William Moran's farm-they breed and race some nice turfers). I often make a "wrong" turn in my work truck to drive around Tapeta. Funny (and scary these days) the things you can get away with in a work van and a friendly wave. Dickinson will usually be driving along in his little Volkswagen or something next to the gallopers. Rally neat. The best quote about him "He could train a team of chihauhas to win the Iditarod!"


Sorry for rambling all the time but stuff like this kicks me in the arse!
Because of Dickinson's success with this type training, lots of trainers are following "the mad genius'" lead. Before it was drill drill drill speed speed speed. Now they realize how much stamina can help a horse's well-being and competitive nature. Of course, the medications here are probably a factor as well. Aussies be proud that you can do it the right way and don't think of it as pampering. AFLEET ALEX (trained by Del Park trainer Tim Ritchey, yep little old Delaware Park might have the best horse around!) has been trained with everyday looong gallops so he can carry his excellent turn of foot(remember the Preakness?) a route of ground. Naysayers were in abundance before the triple crown, especially from some "big time"(Did these guys ever even start a horse in the Triple Crown?) New York trainers. They ended up with foot in mouth disease. Another example is Tommy Voss' style of giving a horse a shot at steeple-chasing to build his strength. If the horse can jump, he keeps jumping. If not, the horse goes long on the flat turf a la "John's Call"(3rd BC Turf, 1st G1 Man O' War at 9 years old!) I saw Johnny fall in his jump career at Fair Hill (another famous training ground in Elkton, MD)nd never thought he would end up being my all time favorite many years later and running in the BC Turf. This small area of Maryland, Delaware, and Pennsylvania is home to so many world class trainers (Graham Motion, Dickinson, Voss, J. Shepherd, Ritchey, John Servis-Smarty Jones, Barclay Tagg-Funny Cide, Bill Boniface-Spectacular Bid, Carl Hanford-5xhorse of year KELSO, etc.), onwers(Christiana Stables, Bohemia Stables, Augustin Stables, Woodstock Farm, Tapeta, Elk Manor Farms(Moran), WINFIELD FARMS!!!-breeder and racer of NIJINSKY II and the top sire of 20th century NORHERN DANCER) and jockeys(Chris McCarron, Kent Desormeaux, Edgar Prado, Bill Hartick, and on the jumps Johnathon Smart, Blythe Miller. Chip Miller, Bruce Miller, Sean and Joe Clancy(they run the Steeplechase News here in the states now), Scotty Schulhofer + Barclay Tagg(yep they were jump riders!). Just an amazing breeding ground of horse racing talent in an area smaller than Ayers Rock!

[saratoga samchaz]

ALINGHI might face males next in the G1 Shadwell Turf Mile at Keeneland (the most beautiful track in America in the heart of breeding country in Lexington, Kentucky-GO if you come to the states in April or October) on October 8. Bobby Frankel said her long term goal is the G1 Matriarch at Hollywood Park on Nov. 27. She will definitely not go in the Breeder's Cup as the supplemation fee is much too high to make it viable. alinghi should remain in training until the middle of 2006 when she will be retired and sent home to you for the beginning of Southern Hemisphere breeding season. Who do you think the lucky boy will be?

[Raw Instinct]

Don't be surprised if the lucky boy will be either Redoutes Choice or maybe her nemesis here Fastnet Rock would lean towards possibly Redoutes though.

[saratoga samchaz]

I thought I heard that. You gotta love classy breeding top and bottom. Lets all pitch in and buy the foal! Propun Stables Zillion Dollar yearling

[Raw Instinct]

Sounds like a great idea one problem we need about another few hundred people here to be able to pay for it.

[saratoga samchaz]

Ha Ha! At least!

[xanadu]

hey saratoga!

I've posted a question for you in the "Race Betting Systems Forum" and looking forward to your response.

Cheers.

[saratoga samchaz]

Checking now Xanny, but I might not answer for a couple of hours as I'd like to go bet the pigs(Do you guys call bad horses "cats"? I've seen Stix say it a few times. You crazy Aussies talk funny! Just kidding my didgaradoo mates!

[xanadu]

G'day saratoga,

A couple of years ago the NSWTAB tried to get U.S.racing "off the ground" here in Australia by operating on Friday U. S. meetings(a track in Kentucky was one and I am unsure of the others) which came through here in the early hours of Saturday.
It proved to be an unsuccessful venture as the horses were generally of a lower standard and there was no viable form available. Also. more importantly, Oz punters were too pre-occupied with doing the form leading up to our own weekend venues.
My question is : are there numerous tracks in Kentucky and generally, are they viable betting venues?
My main observation was that the horses appeared to run each furlong at an even rate whereas our style of racing here is to more or less "sit and sprint."
Whose do you think is the most effective racing pattern?

Cheers.

[saratoga samchaz]

Maybe the dingo took your baby-Elaine from Seinfeld. I don't know why I posted that.

Xanadu, I just looked for about 5 minutes on that forum but didn't find your question, until I came back here. I have to ponder that for a while because although I'm aware of these differences between here and Aus/Europe, I've never thought about what was a better way, I just figured the whole while in Rome thing. I have some ideas already but I want to really come up with a strong objective opinion. As for Kentucky, the Spring and Fall meet at Keeneland in Lexington are very strong with the best horses around running. (VERY STRONG INSIDE SPEED BIAS ON THE DIRT THERE. If you come across an outside closer who did well there, give him a good look on a closers or honest track. The turf there is generally kind to closers but I think it is pretty fair.) CHURCHILL DOWNS is in Louisville about 80 miles north west of Lexington near the Indiana border on the banks of the Ohio river. 80 miles physically, but a world of difference in the towns and the tracks. Churchill is an old track that has been recently renovated as it is the home of the World'd Most famous race (sorry rest of world,but this is not just a boast from an obnoxious Yank). The DERBY, not Darby.) But the purse for the Kentucky Derby is a joke. It's only $1 million US and just got raised from 750k a couple of years ago(not much by todays standards). But win it and you are set for life as long as your horse doesn't need Viagra. Louisville is becoming a typical US city with crime and decay and those are the areas that surround Churchill. Lexington is a horsey city with lots of cash and opulent horse farms on all the outskirts of the city. The whole city is circled by the interstate and roads extend out like spokes on a tire, only out instead of in. Each spoke contains the World's(that word again) most famous Horse farms. Calumet stands next to the track which is also on a spoke. Adena Springs, Claiborne, Stonerside, Pin Oak, Overbrook, Airdrie, Coolmore, The THorougbred Corp. all there. HUGE FARMS with white clapboard fences and green fields containing the best stallions around.

Ellis Park is a mediocre track along with Turfway Park near Cincinnati. Churchill runs a fall meet from Nov through Dec and a spring meet from the first week in May until July. They have great racing the first two weeks until the Derby is run on the 1st Saturday in may, when it becomes a decent track with good purses and second level horses from some of the top notch trainers. Order of bettability (Keeneland(lots of favorites though), Churchill, Ellis, Turfway(mostly runs at night here), and the now defunct BLUEGRASS DOWNS in good old Paducah near Illinois.) I'm also partial to Kenneland because I proposed to my wife there. They also have kick ass tailgate parties before the races begin. Like a football game.I've never seen anything like it.

The Breeder;s Cup is at Monmouth Park in NJ next year, if anyone dedides to come over for it, let me know. I live about 2 hours from Monmouth and 2 1/2 hours from Belmont and NYC. I live about 5-6 hours from Saratoga, but well worth the drive.

[xanadu]

Saratoga,

It's under a thread: "Saratoga Samchaz" in the other forum. It specifically asks if you have any "systems" which have proved to be successful in the U.S. and may be viable here.
I see that you are "one for one" in your tipping prowess, getting Tommifrancs up the other day-keep up the good work!

Cheers.

[saratoga samchaz]

I gotta give credit to Sportz on that one as he turned me on to him the run before last, but I did pick him on my own last time. Thanks for the compliment but I think ended up switching to Ilbach for some reason. Just found the program for Tues.night/Wes day and did switch thinking a better price, Ilbach's vastly improved barrier position from his previous 3 races (12, 10, 8) while the deep closer Tommifrancs was moving out to the 10 hole after starting in the 8, 4, 8, 1, +7, and not to mention Iilbach had run a good one against Tommi. I also saw Il had been starting against bigger fields while Tom had shorter fields, leading me to believe Ilbach's competitive spirit might make the difference. I think horses on the pace were doing better that day and Ilbach definitely is a stayer who looks to like a route of ground while Tommi fooled me into thinking he might like a mile or 7 furlongs best.(should have known since he's by REAL QUIET-Bob Baffert's 2 and 99/100% winner of the three legs of our triple crown, losing by a nose toVictory Gallop in the Belmont Stakes. I was there that day and it was a very somber mood after that race because it was SOOOOO close yet so far-26 years since we've had one)

This is an example of how I handicap most races. I try to remain flexible and not get too attached/loyal or hate a horse or trainer because he beats me. Instead I jump on the wagon if it's the right time and price. I did it the other night with Sir Dex and it paid off. Dex beat me in the Warwick with Dizelle and I immediately swore Dizelle would get him next time. When I handicapped the Chelmsford stakes I started to think Sir Dex might not be a fluke and has just developed into a nice 5 year old. He hung at the top of the stretch but made a second move to gamely get 2nd in a nose to nose finish that was closer than Real Quiet's Belmont. He isn't going to win by open lengths but he looks like he will always try his hardest. I Love that in a horse! Some horses need to win for their ego, they're the kind I like. Sounds laughable in a way but we sometimes forget we are dealing with living, breathing creatures whose needs and wants are alot like ours. The only thing about this kind of handicapping is, it can't be quantified like a true "system" but if I were ever able to put it on paper, I'd call it the "Don't let a horse with heart beat you again, you big dummy, system!" Now will I bet Sir Dex next out? I really don't know.

[saratoga samchaz]

Concerning the "wait and Sprint" style, I think it is more effective on courses that are not as standardized as here. Especially when they UNDULATE like the Rise (see, I'm learning). If a horse didn't save any energy after running up hill he would stop dead. Our Steeplchase races run in the same sprint it out at the end style and most of these are run on varying terrain. I can't honestly say one is better than the other, per se.

[saratoga samchaz]

Xanadu, here is a piece of advice that just came into my head while perusing the form for Monday's last day of racing at the grand old Spa- Saratoga. Labor Day weekend here in the states has always been a bit of a downer as it signified the end of Summer, the beginning of the new school year, and as an adult- the end of the upstate NY meet.


ASSISTANT TRAINER RECOGNITION SYSTEM

(nice technical name, huh)
Here in the states, as I'm sure in OZ, the big outfits have many horses. Now do you really think a guy like D. Wayne Lukas, Robert Frankel, or Gai Waterhouse are really putting their hands on their horses? It's not even possible here, where most big trainers have horses running all over the country. Top trainers become top trainers through heads up organizational skills and reading the condition books of all pertinent race tracks. They manage their team like a GM of a professional sports team and are integral to the team's success. But just like in sports, without a good game day coach, the team will lose. ASSISTANT TRAINERS are these head coaches. They give helpful hints to the big guy with his name on the program and this Trainer has the final decision, gting all the credit for big equipment changes, stretching a sprinter out, or changing the horses running style. The poor, hard working Asst. is quite happy for awhile, being the right hand man and bringing in some decent cash while having the responsibility of running a barn yard full of workers and horses. Inevitably, the realization that they are really running the show hits and they are forced to make a risky decision; strike out on their own or play it safe and stick with the security of the big time trainer. Competitive by necessity, the assistant moves on with one or two horses from a thankful owner and/or from the Big Trainer who knows he couldn't have done it without the asst. Big Time has been there too.

Follow these assistants when they go out on their own and realize that their stable won't be powerful right away. Look for the same angles that made the Big Guy such a winner and exploit the bigger price you will get with this relative unknown. The key to all this is learning the assistant trainers' names and keeping it fresh in your memory bank. no one else will even know who he is. I made some big scores on Todd Pletcher when he first broke away from D. Wayne Lukas and now he is the top trainer in America.

The one advantage to this system here, is the lack of in your face information about horse racing. There are all kinds of places to get the information you need and want but you just have to work for it. The casual race fan in America doesn't even buy the Daily Racing Form- this is the Rosetta Stone of racing and I truly believe you can't win without it. The little rinky dink programs sold on track are basically useless to me. Some of them don't even have any other horses listed in the past erformances except the winner of that race. People are ready to sacrifice invaluable information for the sake of saving a couple of bucks, which in the long run should cost them anyway. In Australia, horse racing is treated with respect and adoration as the great sport should be. But that means more people follow it, more information is easily availavble, and the average person at least understands the game. This cuts down on your element of surprise concerning the Asst sneaking in under the radar for a while, giving you your own private gold mine.


D. Wayne Lukas school of trainers-graduates
Todd Pletcher
Dallas Stewart
John Kimmel
even Steve Asmussen and Linda Rice had contacts with D. Wayne while they were learning the game at an early age from their respective parents breeding and pin hooking operations

[xanadu]

Thanks for that Saratoga,

We punters here in Australia believe that we have the "best of both worlds" by having bookmakers providing fixed odds and the paramutuals(tote) to compare and choose the "value" odds.
This provides the smart punter with the opportunity to get an "edge" in this game.
What do you think and can't you open an internet betting account in this part of the world to take advantage of this opportunity?

Cheers.

[xanadu]

Hey Saratoga,

What do you think about our colloquialisms here in Oz such as :
"the favourite was done like a dinner,"
"the leader has something up his sleeve"-we are aware of the trouble that racecaller, Michael Rona(Roner?) found himself in after uttering this colourful phrase in the U.S..
There are innumerable others that you may have encountered and are there any which require translation like "barry crocker"....meaning "shocker"....meaning an ill-judged ride.

Cheers.

[saratoga samchaz]

Hey Xanny, Yep, I plan on opening an acct as soon as I have a little extra $$. I took the first step last week and re-opened my Phone Bet Acct here in the Philly area. (I hadn't used it since 1997 and opened back in like 1991!). I'm going to put some more in the Phone Bet in a little while so I can sit at home and bet the Aussies while talking to all you guys. I get so frustrated waiting for all the excellent info on here whil researchingthe web (like Barrier Trials, Steward's Reports, Stats, and Track Maps) in a rush before heading to the Turf Club. I'm not asking anybody to rush their tips,,,, I understand it takes an Artiste to win at this game, The best values are in the place and show pools over here in the later races (5,6,7 as we don't take them all the way through usually) I think I can grab the best of bothe worlds and have a great time instead of fighting with the Manager at club. I do enjoy the comradrie from the select few that play the Aussies-the smartest and best 'cappers at the track in my opinion, and grab a lot of info from them as well.Sportz gave me a couple of great internet sites over there. Does Australia have regular local bookies on the treack apron like in Ireland? And how about Turf Accountants in shops around town? It was great in Ireland on vacation, hanging out and betting horses. The best had to be going to Punchestown Race Course outside Dublin near Naas. A large 2 mile oval, I got to see some great's like Doran's Pride and Danoli (the pride of Neal and Foley as the Irish song goes.) There were a lot of "rats", "pigs" or "dogs" there also. (Our lingo for Bad Horses.

[saratoga samchaz]

What are you trying to say, Xan? Aussies have some wacky slang?? LOL

I gotta tell ya something, every Aussie I've met or come into contact with has been alright with me! I do alot of Skiing and my Brother(moving to Perth next week, weird ain't it!) used to live near Jackson Hole, Wyoming, so on visits there I would come into contact with a lot of Aussies. Disclaimer: This is only my opinion so don't anybody get offended (can't see how you could anyway). Average Aussie: Happy go lucky, rowdy, beer not wine coolers, boisterous, above average intelligence but not smart ya know what I mean...down to earth, passionate(horses and skiing for sure), and excitable. Doesn't seem like there's too many bad apples down there, proportionately.

I do have alot of trouble with the lingo, but I first try to figure it out before asking. I have no problem asking because I'm an info freak.

My brother told me about a guy calling him something that could be construed as derogatory, but after explaining it he was only calling him a Yank! It seems like a lot of the sayings you guys use come from rhyming with the word it is meant to represent, like "Crocker" meaning shocker, and whatever that guy called my bro. That thing about Rona cracks me up, since we say that also, but mean "he's up to something" either good or bad. I don't see how people could be so dumb.

[saratoga samchaz]

ALINGHI is rACING IN about ten minutes in the
Shadewell Turf at one mile. She is the 2-1 favorite right now. Funny that trainer Bobby Frankel took a shot at our Daily Raing Form because they have ALINGHI as leading in all her races in AUS. That's why I asked Sportz about that a while ago. Be back in a bit.

[Chuck]

Host Explodes In Stretch For Shadwell Turf Mile Win
Lexington, KY (October 8, 2005)

Winning jockey Raphael Bejarano raised a fist after winning the Shadwell Turf Mile (G1) at Keeneland.
Host "exploded" in the stretch under jockey Rafael Bejarano to win the $600,000 Grade 1 Shadwell Turf Mile Stakes Saturday at Keeneland.

Still seventh with a quarter mile remaining in the one-mile turf race, the Chilean-bred 5-year-old charged down the middle of the course to prevail by a neck over Vanderlin.

"My horse broke good and went easily to the half," said Bejarano. "Even though he usually shows speed, he relaxed for me. When I asked him to run, he just exploded."

Vanderlin held the lead in deep stretch under British jockey Richard Hughes but the 6-year-old gelding couldn't hold off Host's stretch rally. Vanderlin held on for second, 2 3/4 lengths in front of Gulch Approval.

The time was 1:37.67.

Host won for the eighth time in 14 career starts and increased his lifetime earnings to $647,119 for Melnyk Racing Stables, Inc. He is trained by Todd Pletcher.

Host paid $22.80, $9.80 and $6. Vanderlin, who was sent to North America in mid summer, returned $19.20 and $11.20. Gulch Approval returned $12.

Australian champion Alinghi, the only filly in the 10-horse field, finished eighth under jockey Edgar Prado.

"This filly was training super leading up to this race," said Prado. "She just didn't like the give in the turf course today. She is a champion though, and she will be back to fight another day."

In the race prior to the Shadwell Turf Mile, Dawn of War earned a trip to New York for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile with an upset win in the $500,000, Grade 1 Lane's End Breeders' Futurity for 2-year-olds.

Jockey John Jacinto hustled the 36-1 outsider from the No. 9 position to the lead and the son of Catienus was never headed while posting his third career victory.

"This is the biggest win I have ever had," said Jacinto. "Mr. (trainer Dale) Romans told me that if I wanted to go to the lead, it was okay. My horse is fast and he ran easy."

Dawn of War avenged a loss to Laity in the Miller Lite Cradle Stakes last month at River Downs while running the 1 1/16 miles on the fast track in 1:48.77.

"This horse always tries hard," said Romans of Dawn of War. "We kind of let Laity get away from us a River Downs. From the outside we had to go. It's always nice to have a speed horse at Keeneland, regardless of how the earlier races have been running."

It was 3 1/2 lengths back to second-place Catcominatcha, who was 3 1/4 lengths in front of Kentucky Cup Juvenile Stakes winner Stream Cat. Sharp Attack was a neck back in fourth.

Greater Fool, who had won his only start three weeks ago at Belmont Park, collapsed a sixteenth of a mile past the finish line of apparent exhaustion. He was revived by veterinarians and track workers and walked onto a waiting horse ambulance.

Jockey Shaun Bridgmohan was thrown to the track but was not injured.

Dawn of War earned $310,000 for owners Ken and Sarah Ramsey. The win improved his career record to 6-3-3-0 and increased his lifetime earnings to $403,800.

The winner paid $74.60, $24.20 and $11.20. Catcominatcha, ridden by Rafael Bejarano, returned $16.60 and $8.60 and Stream Cat, with Mike Smith substituting for Kieren Fallon, paid $4.20.

In a supporting feature, Elusive Jazz took the lead at the top of the stretch and gradually pulled away to a three-length victory in the $266,500, Grade 3 Phoenix Breeders' Cup Stakes.

The 4-year-old son of Elusive Quality ran six furlongs on the fast track in 1:11.60 and posted his fourth lifetime victory in 14 career starts. He earned $165,230 for G. James Phelps' Stony Oak Farm, LLC.

"The Breeders Cup is coming up," said Bobby Barnett, indicating that Elusive Quality's next start could be the Breeders' Cup Sprint on October 29 at Belmont Park. "We'll see how he comes out of this race and then decide."

Wild Tale, a 21-1 outsider, rallied from sixth place to finish second, 11/4 lengths in front of third-place Premium Saltine. It was 13/4 lengths back to fourth-place in the field of eight 4-year-olds and upward.

Elusive Jazz, ridden by Robby Albarado, paid $17, $8.20 and $5 as the fifth choice.

"Bobby gave me great instructions," said Albarado. "He told me to keep him covered up. Horses have been coming off the pace today so I was comfortable with my position. He ran on well down the lane."

Wild Tale returned $19.20 and $9 and Premium Saltine paid $4.20.

It was the first stakes win for Elusive Jazz, who increased his career earnings to $306,931.

[saratoga samchaz]

Trainer Bobby Frankel was obviously concerned about the condition of the Keeneland Turf course in the pre-race interview when he complained about the chopped up surface and why it was that way in only the second day of racing at the Keeneland meet. Alinghi didn't seem to like the turf, but also seemed to have nowhere to go entering the stretch and may have been reserved by jockey Edgar Prado when he realized he had no chance.

KEEP THE FAITH ran a very game third last weekend after setting blistering fractions on the front end against some of the best turfers here including ARTIE SCHILLER. Good to see the dirt race was a poor judgement call by Bin Suroor(real surprise there!)