CRASH'S PLACE PLACE

[crash]

Boy, everyone knows here I am a win only man mostly. However, I'm a bit intrigued by efforts to bet the place and make a profit. Not so easy considering the SR required to beat the place due to odds paid.

Obviously the best place [no pun intended] to look is at the reasonable shorties as they seem to pay up to 50+% of the win price often enough to maybe make a go of it.I came up with a little bit of a system as guidance plus a bit of race reading, so lets see how we go for awhile. Concentrates on 1st to 4th PP favorites. Maximizing odds is definitely the go, so AIS is my preferred bet site [anyone know a better one for place bets?].

The system guidence is: I ignore all maidens, 2yr. olds, Cups, Stakes and Special event races and below C2. Distances between 1100m and 2050m on good tracks only [PP is for good tracks only]. First and second uppers are ignored as are 57+kg. carriers except on Sat. [57 1/2 kg. is OK] after claims.
Everything else is race reading with a 'yes' or 'no' bet.


Today I had 4 selections. 2 of them have already run with 2 to go in WA.

Place only-

Albury:
R5/6 Paint box [unp]
R8/7 Coolroom Candidate [W$4/$2 STAB and $2.07 AIS where I placed my bets].
York:
R6/4 Under Attack
R7/7 Old Value

Outlay 4 units.

[crash]

Place only-

Albury:
R5/6 Paint box [unp]
R8/7 Coolroom Candidate [W$4/$2 STAB and $2.07 AIS where I placed my bets].
York:
R6/4 Under Attack [2nd $1.43 IAS and $1.30 STAB]
R7/7 Old Value [unp].

Outlay 4 units. Return AIS 3.5 units. Loss 0.5 units. 3 out of 4 to make a profit is a hard ask.
Paint box started 2nd. fav. and Old Value Fav. Both had good Jocks. See what tomorrow turns up.

[wesmip1]

Unlucky today crash.

You need to find some value runners rather than try to tip 75%. If you can get all your runners paying $2.00+ you only need to hit half of them.

Good Luck Tommorrow.

[Mr ed]

I had a big place only bet yesterday in Prince Rhubarb looking it had decent form and was meeting a field of only 8 hurdlers, got $2.25 with surebet and was just hoping that it would get run down in the straight, it did and that made me very happy, as there is nothing worse then betting place and it gets up and wins, other then running fourth that is.

[partypooper]

Crash,
My "turf" here (so to speak) as you know I have been heavily into place betting for a few years now (apart from my spell away)

What I really want is BEST of 3 totes, I'm told it is available but I can only find it for the win NOT place only.

My compromise is to back Half of the stake @ best of 2 totes (i.e. S/Tab + NSW TAB) and the other half @ Unitab, so at least I always have a taste of the best price.

My S/R is still hovering around the 75% mark.

Interesting though, my stakes have been spread around a bit so far (deliberately) so am more than a bit concerned about that OTHER thread regarding winning accounts being closed.

[crash]

Thanks punters for the input.

This place business really is an interesting exercise. Yesterday was my second go at it. The day before I had about 15 bets and broke even. If I had left the 'Newmarket' alone and the race before and after it [loss bets]. I would have made money. I was using a straight system approach. Something I made up that does produce a high SR but mostly too many bets [yesterday was an exception].

PLACE THE RULE-FITTING FAVORITE SYSTEM

Any day except Sunday or night and public holiday meetings.
Ignore below class C2 races. Cups, Hurdles, 2yr olds and Stakes races.
Distances 1100m to 2050m only and in Good conditions only.

1, select the PP favorite.
2. must not be first or second up unless it has a very good record for 1st and 2nd up.
3. must not be carrying more than 57kg. after allowances. 57 1/2 kg. for Sat. Metro.
4.must be in barrier 9 or less except on big tracks.
5 must have raced within the last 21 days.
6 if the PP favorite fits the above it's a Place bet.
7 if the favorite doesn't fit the rules move on to the second favorite etc.
8 if more than 1 horse is on the 2nd fav. line, the lower TAB No. is 2nd. etc.
9 Ignore the race if one of the first 4 PP favorites doesn't fit the rules.
10.Do not back females against males [unless her name starts with Macka:-)]

On Wednesday this produced too many bets. I back-fitted it over about 100 races from races with the PP odds I'd copied and pasted from the WAtab site [trying to build a PP databank but it's a bit of a drudge putting in all the results at the end of the day]. A very high SR of about 85% was achieved.
SA last Sat. was 8 out of 8. Melb. lost [on every Stakes race]. NSW [lost on the stakes except 1] and Qld both won.

I think the go is a bit of race reading and not too many bets. A few
big bets is always better than small bets and lots of them [win or place]. The system needs another rule to reduce bets [last start 16 days?] or race reading anyway.

Trying for $2+ odds gets into rocky ground. A place of $2.50 is often from a runner paying up to $15 for the win ! The $2 to $6 SP [they pay up to $3.50 the place] to win seems to be the best ground to find place bets with value I think [longer odds are too heavily backed for the place and $15 SP is often paying only $2.50/$3 P], but I'm not sitting in front of a monitor all day so I go on the PP odds only. AIS pays better than 2 Tabs [only]. Trap there is that often the 3rd TAB price is often better!!

[crash]

Well I'll I'll see how these go today. They are all the horses by the rules above.

I'll have a look at their form and decide which is a bet or not for myself personaly. Maybe all of them, maybe not. But for interest sake I've put them all in.

Albury.
R4/4 KING OF ILLAWARRA
R6/7 PRETTIFY
R8/1 DOWER [NZ]

Port Macquire [DEAD]

Rockhampton
R2/5 RAINBOW DANCER
R8/3 PEDREE

Sale
R7/3 OUR RAPHAEL
R8/2 TWELVE OAKS

[partypooper]

Crash, try this one: must have a win in exposed form UNLESS 1st up over 1200m OR LESS, also no 3kg claimers, that usually sorts em out!!

[crash]

The win in exposed form is a good one Party. But jeez, there are a few good claimers around. Keen as mustard these kids. I do rule out 4kg. claimers though !

Sale R7/3 certainly deserves some more place dosh on it. Heck, I might even take it 1x6 each way !

Albury R8/1 might get a few more place pennies on it [has a claimer too].

They all look reasonable place bets after a look at the form.

[crash]

AIS Prices.

Albury.
R4/4 KING OF ILLAWARRA [unp]
R6/7 PRETTIFY [$2.06p]
R8/1 DOWER [NZ] [unp F]

Port Macquire [DEAD]

Rockhampton
R2/5 RAINBOW DANCER [$1.64p]
R8/3 PEDREE [$3.33p]. $4.30 STAB !

Sale
R7/3 OUR RAPHAEL [$1.63p]
R8/2 TWELVE OAKS [$1.43p]

Outlay 7 units. Returm 10.9 Profit 3.9 units

[crash]

I've put most races in but the ones marked * are stakes races [only 1 out of 7 placed last week].
I haven't looked at days since last ran so the list can be reduced further if you like [ For Saturdays I'm changing the Days since last start rule to 7 or 14 days to improve fitness and to make sure it was a Sat runner last start].

I'm also using a bit of race reading so the rules are bendable a bit for my selections. No point in just putting down only the exact system tips. Anyone can do that themselves but I would keep the barrier and 16 days since last start rules in if you do. The rules are guide only for me especially on Sat. I chuck in some handicapping.

ROSEHILL
R1/4*, R2/3*, R3/2*, R4/4* R5/4*, R6/2*,R9/9*
R7/10 Prisoner of Love
R9/9 Picket Fence

DOOMBEN
R1/5 Saints Glory
R4/4 Leica Launch
R5/7 Any Suggestion
R6/2 Massai Pride
R7/5 Video hits
R8/8 Myndos

MOONEE VALLEY [barriers are important here for a lot of horses. Also some just don't like this track]
R1/4 Swinging Babe
R3/2 Final Express
R4/4 Miss Lyrebird
R5/4 De Capo [Zipping should easily win this but looking for a bit better place odds]
R6/4 Emerald Jack
R7/3 Fullazz
R8/9 Millie Rose

MORPHETVILLE [trick track. Inside draw very important at almost any distance, except for VERY strong back markers]

3/2 Finness Sea [strong back marker with a bit of class edge on this lot and might beat Wildlife Girl the Fav. and win this].
R4/6 Solitas [If he jumps cleanly he might win this. Has trouble at the gate but the much better jock might help here]
R7/12 The Hammer
R8/7 Brocco and Ice

We'll see how this little lot goes :-)

[crash]

Dump the Rosehill bets ....a SLOW track !!!

[crash]

DOOMBEN is 'dead'. Revised bets if anyone interested in Brisb.

R4/4 Leica Launch
R5/7 Any Suggestion
R7/5 Video hits

R4 Melb. Original selection scratched. Replacement is No.2 Hillfa

[crash]

I did not include rain affected tracks in my own bets [would have been a bad betting move after just checking results, especially the stakes races in Syd.]
I supplied the info for those interested only. Wet tracks and PP odds just don't go together.

MORPHETVILLE
3/2 Finness Sea [w $9.41 / p$2.37]
R4/6 Solitas [p $3.22]
R7/12 The Hammer
R8/7 Brocco and Ice

MOONEE VALLEY
R1/4 Swinging Babe
R3/2 Final Express
R4/ 2 Hillfa
R5/4 De Capo [p$2.17]
R6/4 Emerald Jack
R7/3 Fullazz [w $10.95 / p$3.03]
R8/9 Millie Rose

Moonee Valley proved very tough. Some close 4ths. all over the meetings.
I did take Finness Sea and Solitas e/w though but not Fullazz, so not a bad day [wins not included in totals].

Outlay today place 11 units. Return 10.79 units. Loss 0.21
Overall outlay 22 units. Return 25.19. Profit 3.19 units.

Can have a lot of fun with this method and not do much damage it seems.
I'll wring a profit out of this I think with a bit more experience.

[crash]

These are just straight handicapped place bets as it's a system rest day.

Cranbourne

R5/1 Itsamonty
R7/1 Palias
R9/7 Governor Macquarie
R10/7 Generals Command [might be worth an e/w bet].

[crash]

Should have left Sunday a rest day:-)

R5/1 Itsamonty [p$1.63]
R7/1 Palias
R9/7 Governor Macquarie
R10/7 Generals Command [Lost by a nostril. p$1.53].

Won 3.16 units. Loss 0.74

[crash]

After going over about 100pp race results again. I'm ignoring the weight rule and first up rule but keeping the no second up rule. If the PP fav. doesn't fit I ignore the race. Moving to the 2, 3rd, or 4th. fav. for a fit looked good, but in practice isn't.

Only 'good' track meeting from the 2 today is:

MON. 27TH. TATURA

R5/1 GENERAL MACKJOSH
R6/2 SHERBORNE
R7/5 CHIMINERA
R8/6 DONE AND DUSTED

[crash]

MON. 27TH. TATURA

R5/1 GENERAL MACKJOSH [w $1.96/ p$1.11]
R6/2 SHERBORNE[unp] This is the one I would have left out. 3 tries at this distance for zero. I just wanted to go back and stick to some set rules and take things from there so I left him in].
R7/5 CHIMINERA [p$1.21]
R8/6 DONE AND DUSTED [p$1.64]

Total return 3.96 units. Crap odds today for a loss of 0.04. We'll improve on that I think and start making money soon, rather than treading water.

[crash]

Only one 'good' track today.

TOWNSVILLE

R2/1 ZIPSNIP
R7/7 DANCING NIGHT

The R3 selection has been removed at 11.50am. [r3 only has 6 runners].

[crash]

For those who picked up the scrubbed tip, you did well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

BR3 RACE 3 HANSON BRICKWORK CLASS 6 1630m
12:13pm [PP prices yesterday morning]

1 2041 EAGLE REIGN ta 3 B YOUNG 58.5 $2.80 *

2 8x64 SETO STAR td 1 N DAY 58.5 $3.00

3 6425 STRIDERITE t 6 A COX 58.5 $3.80

4 7353 GIVE AND TELL 4 MS T BANNON 57 $8.00

5 1472 POWER OF NOW tcm 2 I TOWARD 55.5 $4.20

6 4321 WINAQUA c 5 D GREEN 52.5 $7.00
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Eagle Reign was obviously unwanted [weight?] and won paying: IAS [w$11.11/p3.32].

R2/1 ZIPSNIP [w$2.27/p1.40]
R7/7 DANCING NIGHT [unp]

Loss today 0.6 units.
Overall Outlay 32 units. Return 33.38. Profit 1.38 units. Needs a bit of a lift.

[crash]

No pp odds for Devonport except R2 and no pp odds Ipswiich.

DEVONPORT
R2 AT ST. GEORGE

GEELONG
R6/6 CONISTON GEM
R7/1 FEARLESS WATERS*
R8/5 STRADDLES*

*Might be worth a win bet too.

[crash]

Better late than never:

DEVONPORT
R6/2 SAHARA STAR
R8/1 ACTIONPACKJACKSON

IPSWICH
R4/4 DANERIDGE
R5/2 COMANACA
R6/1 SWEET RANSOM
R7/1 DISCOINTICA

[partypooper]

Overall Outlay 32 units. Return 33.38. Profit 1.38 units. Needs a bit of a lift

Crash, that's 4.31% POT, and would be considered by a lot of "clever people"

as VERY GOOD!! i.e. 1000 bets a year of $2000 = $2,000,000 x 4.31%= 86 grand not bad..........

[crash]

Thanks for the votes Party :-)
Not a good result today. I should have included Ipswich R1 and R2, both winners.

DEVONPORT
R2 AT ST. GEORGE
R6/2 SAHARA STAR [w$6.50/p$2.80]
R8/1 ACTIONPACKJACKSON

GEELONG
R6/6 CONISTON GEM [w$4.50/p$1.90]
R7/1 FEARLESS WATERS*
R8/5 STRADDLES*

IPSWICH
R4/4 DANERIDGE
R5/2 COMANACA [p$1.42]
R6/1 SWEET RANSOM
R7/1 DISCOINTICA

w11units. Return on p = 5.12 units. Loss on place 4.88 units.
Starting to look good as a win system perhaps[?]. Anyway, it's wide open until I work out some rules that will increase the place SR for sure, not what I think will work.

[xptdriver]

Only one 'good' track today.

TOWNSVILLE

R2/1 ZIPSNIP
R7/7 DANCING NIGHT

The R3 selection has been removed at 11.50am. [r3 only has 6 runners].

Gday Crash

the removal of a selection for the place because of 6 runners intrigues me.. Why is it not a bet... they pay a win and 2 places for a 6 horse field.. Isn't the dividend better when only paying two place divvies? The pool is divided by 2 instead of 3?..

This is a genuine question, coz I see lotsa people flick 7 and 6 horse fields, but to me that doesnt make lotsa sense.. To my way of thinking if you find a place getter in these circumstances the rewards are higher...

[kenchar]

Crash, Here's a place system that might be worthwile, I have been working on it for a while, and opened a seperate TAB account to run it on small bets to see how it goes, will keep you updated.

NO form odds only.

<TABLE id=DataGridStatement cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=""><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight></TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>15:15</TD><TD>06032900037</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>KEMBLA GRANGE</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>7 Montgresin</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$54.00 </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>15:01</TD><TD>06032900035</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>KEMBLA GRANGE</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>7 Montgresin</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:54</TD><TD>06032900031</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>GEELONG</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>7 Daneheart</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$52.00 </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:45</TD><TD>06032900025</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>GEELONG</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>7 Daneheart</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:45</TD><TD>06032900023</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>IPSWICH</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>5 Variegation</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$44.00 </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:37</TD><TD>06032900021</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>IPSWICH</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>5 Variegation</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:28</TD><TD>06032900018</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>KEMBLA GRANGE</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>4 Scoot</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:28</TD><TD>06032900016</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>MURRAY BRIDGE</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>7 Single Malt</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$46.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:20</TD><TD>06032900014</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>MURRAY BRIDGE</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>7 Single Malt</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>14:10</TD><TD>06032900011</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>GEELONG</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>6 Control Bridge</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>13:52</TD><TD>06032900008</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>KEMBLA GRANGE</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>5 Humble Beginnings</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>13:52</TD><TD>06032900006</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>KEMBLA GRANGE</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>10 Dream Machine</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$52.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>13:18</TD><TD>06032900004</TD><TD>29/03/06</TD><TD>KEMBLA GRANGE</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>10 Dream Machine</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Cheers.

[crash]

Gday Crash

the removal of a selection for the place because of 6 runners intrigues me.. Why is it not a bet... they pay a win and 2 places for a 6 horse field.. Isn't the dividend better when only paying two place divvies? The pool is divided by 2 instead of 3?..

This is a genuine question, coz I see lotsa people flick 7 and 6 horse fields, but to me that doesnt make lotsa sense.. To my way of thinking if you find a place getter in these circumstances the rewards are higher...


Yep, Yep. Yep
XP, I [now] totally agree with all you are saying and am going to include these small field races. Thanks.

[crash]

Hi Kenchar,

Good results but what is the actual system ["Here's a place system that might be worthwhile"] your recommending, or are you just posting results?

Cheers, Crash

[crash]

I have now adjusted the rules but as always they are a guide.
Considering the amount of races on Sat. I'm thinking of adding: Must have a win or place in one of the runners last 2 starts or perhaps a min. place SR [?]


PLACE THE RULE-FITTING FAVORITE SYSTEM

Any day except Sunday or night and public holiday meetings.
Ignore Cups, Hurdles, Maidens, 2yr olds and Stakes races.
Distances: any to 2050m only and in 'good' conditions only.

1. select the PP favorite.
2. must not be second up.
3. Ignore horse over 6 yrs.
5. must have raced within the last 18 days.
6. do not back females against males [unless her name starts with Macka:-)]
7. must have at least placed at the distance [or within 50m from it]
9. if the PP favorite fits the above it's a Place bet.
10.if the favorite doesn't fit the rules move on to the second favorite etc.
11.if more than 1 horse is on the 2nd fav. line, the lower TAB No. is 2nd. etc.
12.ignore the race if one of the first 4 PP favorites doesn't fit the rules.

Interestingly I tried out the basic system last Monday night for awhile on the Greyhounds for something to do.

AIS:

GREYS GO WILD COSMO
ANGLE PARK Race 11 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 37.00 W
27/03/2006
8:30:50 PM 340200D10A-2464449
GREYS BLACK FANTASY
WENTWORTH PK Race 8 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD -50.00 L
27/03/2006
8:29:07 PM B402002191-2464435
GREYS RUBBER SOUL
ALBION PARK Race 7 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 26.50 W
27/03/2006
8:27:34 PM 720200A29A-2464410
GREYS BRANDEEN NICK
ANGLE PARK Race 10 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 10.50 W
27/03/2006
8:14:55 PM DAF10881E3-2464226
GREYS OUR BETTE
WENTWORTH PK Race 7 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 31.50 W
27/03/2006
8:13:05 PM FAF10840EB-2464198
GREYS POSSUM JENKINS
ALBION PARK Race 6 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 25.00 W
27/03/2006
8:03:08 PM 66F1005088-2464077
GREYS COBALT IZMIR
ANGLE PARK Race 9 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 63.50 W
27/03/2006
8:02:04 PM D4F1005371-2464069
GREYS DOLLY MINT
WENTWORTH PK Race 6 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 20.70 W
27/03/2006
7:56:58 PM 92F100A2E2-2464003
GREYS BITA CRAZY
ALBION PARK Race 5 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 48.00 W
27/03/2006
7:47:08 PM 8EE1089202-2463871
GREYS BLACK REWARD
ANGLE PARK Race 8 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 16.00 W
27/03/2006
7:45:07 PM 1EE108F002-2463850
GREYS FAITHFUL LOVE
WENTWORTH PK Race 5 50.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 32.00 W
27/03/2006
7:28:07 PM 16E10083A5-2463681
GREYS ELITE LILLY
WENTWORTH PK Race 4 70.00 IAS-SP Place AUD 30.00 W
27/03/2006
7:06:46 PM 40E100639E-2463503
GREYS ELVIS
WENTWORTH PK Race 3 60.00 IAS-SP Place AUD -60.00 L

A lucky night I think as I noted the bets for Tuesday Greyhounds for a few tracks but didn't bet them. I would have lost badly:-) Maybe Mobnday nights is the way to go[?]

[kenchar]

Crash,

Excellent results, but my own belief after a few years betting place is that you have to work to a minimum price of $2, if you want long term profitability.

Those prices you have there are fine IF you can continue the strike rate, but as we all know it is racing after all and we all know what happens.

Cheers

[partypooper]

Crash, what's good about this idea is HEAPS of action, so even if only a tiny profit can be made there's no problem at all getting to a decent turnover without placing very large bets on a few horses (which obviously can affect the divies)
My place plan only gives 5 bets a week on average so it has that built in weakness, another point is that if I miss a bet (has happened) it can be a disaster, whereas with smaller bets it doesn't matter (as much)
Anyway keep it up, for that streak!! hahah!

[crash]

What got me Party was listening to about 4 or 5 of those greys win in a row !
About 7 winners overall !! Hard to take for a win man having place bets.

The actions the thing. Safe and potential small profit [or loss]. I like to handicap my own choice horse races to win. I don't have many bets. Maybe 1 or 2 a day except for up to 5 on Sat. This place thing give me some action during the week. It's quiet out here in a small town [thank god the tourists have gone back to the city with their noisy power boats and jetskis after the School hols].

This place stuff is cheap pleasure although I'm naturally working on it to be profitable in it's own right.

Kenchar I know what you mean. Problem I see is $2 to $3 place quickly gets you out to backing horse for the place outside the top 5 a lot. Where most place money is bet for the place. So small divvies for horses $6 to $15 SP. $2.50p for a $12 SP horse is common. SR in that price range becomes a lot harder and will be correspondingly lower. Serious handicapping, not a system would be required and at that stage. I would be thinking, stuff the place I can handicap for the win at much better odds and better profitability.

You are probably on the screen watching prices and opportunities. That is the only way to chase $2 average prices for the win. I just haven't the time or inclination to bet like that. That's the problem for me and anyone else who can't, or doesn't want to watch last min. odds before betting. Of course, some people enjoy that type of punting and I'm not suprised it's more profitable than what I'm doing here.

Cheers.


THURSDAY 30TH MARCH

TOOWOOMBA
R4/1 OUT ON BAIL
R5/4 ANABASCA
R6/1 WHAT A TALE
R8/ BIG KEA

CRANBOURNE
R5/1 MITEMAN
R6/ CAPE BELLE
R7/3 CONCLAVE
R8/4 DIRTY DENIM

GOSFORD
R1/1 SUPER SWEEP
R2/1 BEDCLOTHS
R7/4 SOMTHIN LIKA JEM
R8//5 GYPSY JEM

[kenchar]

Kenchar I know what you mean. Problem I see is $2 to $3 place quickly gets you out to backing horse for the place outside the top 5 a lot. Where most place money is bet for the place. So small divvies for horses $6 to $15 SP. $2.50p for a $12 SP horse is common. SR in that price range becomes a lot harder and will be correspondingly lower. Serious handicapping, not a system would be required and at that stage. I would be thinking, stuff the place I can handicap for the win at much better odds and better profitability.

You are probably on the screen watching prices and opportunities. That is the only way to chase $2 average prices for the win. I just haven't the time or inclination to bet like that. That's the problem for me and anyone else who can't, or doesn't want to watch last min. odds before betting. Of course, some people enjoy that type of punting and I'm not suprised it's more profitable than what I'm doing here.

Crash,
What you have quoted is so true except the divies, you do NOT have to go past the 4th fav in any bettable race, BUT you do have to be watching the screen constantly.
It's the only way I know to bet and if I was made to bet any other way I would be back in the workforce super quick.
Today another good day but got caught short with a couple after the jump when they crashed (no pun intended)


<TABLE id=DataGridStatement cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TH>Date (AEST)</TH><TH>Tm (AEST)</TH><TH>Trans</TH><TH>Event Date</TH><TH>Meeting</TH><TH>Rc</TH><TH>Selections</TH><TH>S</TH><TH>Bet Type</TH><TH>Odds</TH><TH>Return/Flx%</TH><TH>Debit</TH><TH>Credit</TH></TR><TR class=""><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>16:38</TD><TD>06033000046</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5 Sequallan</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$36.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>16:25</TD><TD>06033000044</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5 Sequallan</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>16:25</TD><TD>06033000042</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>GOSFORD</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>2 Nothin' Leica Girl</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$36.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>16:13</TD><TD>06033000038</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>GOSFORD</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>2 Nothin' Leica Girl</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>15:47</TD><TD>06033000033</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>7 Azzason</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>14:56</TD><TD>06033000030</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>GOSFORD</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>16 Lashante</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>14:38</TD><TD>06033000026</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1 Mr Bubble</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$56.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>14:00</TD><TD>06033000024</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1 Mr Bubble</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>13:53</TD><TD>06033000016</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>GOSFORD</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1 Bedclothes</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$26.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>13:45</TD><TD>06033000014</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>GOSFORD</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1 Bedclothes</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD></TR><TR class=""><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>13:40</TD><TD>06033000006</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>9 Ebony Girl</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$42.00 </TD></TR><TR class=DataGridStatementGreyBG><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>13:26</TD><TD>06033000004</TD><TD>30/03/06</TD><TD>TOOWOOMBA</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>9 Ebony Girl</TD><TD> </TD><TD>Place</TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight> </TD><TD class=DataGridStatementHighlight>$20.00 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Cheers

[crash]

Kenchar,
I know where your coming from. When I look up results I see many selections I would just not back from the pp list. Today has been a good example [one 2 go before I post results]. Some winners but overall loss. Still, cheap thrills.

[crash]

THURSDAY 30TH MARCH

TOOWOOMBA
R4/1 OUT ON BAIL
R5/4 ANABASCA
R6/1 WHAT A TALE [$2.05]
R8/ BIG KEA

CRANBOURNE
R5/1 MITEMAN [$2.37]
R6/ CAPE BELLE
R7/3 CONCLAVE
R8/4 DIRTY DENIM[$1.96]

GOSFORD
R1/1 SUPER SWEEP [NTD]
R2/1 BEDCLOTHS [w$2.15 p$1.32]
R7/4 SOMETHIN LIKA JEM
R8//5 GYPSY JEM

Outlay 12 units Return 7.7 Loss 4.3

Tomorrow I'm going to handicap some [few] selection and try and get on top of this place scene. This is boring. No system is going to do it it seems. Still. lots of fun without too much loss exposure in a quick system approach.

[crash]

Friday 31st March [HANDICAPPED SELECTIONS]

EAGLE FARM
R6/4 HANDY RED
R7/2 ANABRASCO
R8/1 EPSON RACES
R9/3 LEARNED LEO

SANDOWN
R3/4 PINSEMONT
R4/2 JUGGLE THE BOOKS
R5/5 VALKYIE DIVA

GOLBOURN
R5/4 BAZAARS
R7/1 THE SLAM

Check track cond't. Good tracks only.

[crash]

EAGLEFARM
R7/2 ANABRASCO
R8/1 EPSON RACES

BOTH HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED.

Below is what the system picked [no bets just interest] in the above races where they differ from mine. I'll be able to see if the system beats my [quick] handicapping effort. I have replaced my scratchings with the 2 picks below from the system for betting purposes.

EAGLE FARM
R6/3 MR BAARDOT
R7/1 ALEGRO SPIRITOSO
R8/3 SUN SPINNER
R9/2 RACE TRACK

SANDOWN
R5/1 MERRY DRINKER

GOLBOURN
R7/2 THERE IS NO DOUBT

ALL GOOD TRACKS TODAY.

[crash]

Friday 31st March [HANDICAPPED SELECTIONS]

EAGLE FARM
R6/4 HANDY RED [$2.48]
R7/1 ALEGRO SPIRITOSO [W$3.14 P$1.64]
R8/3 SUN SPINNER [$2.18]
R9/3 LEARNED LEO [$1.64]

SANDOWN
R3/4 PINSEMONT [W$1.64 P$1.21]
R4/2 JUGGLE THE BOOKS [W$1.95 P$1.11]
R5/5 VALKYIE DIVA [$2.06]

GOULBOURN
R5/4 BAZAARS
R7/1 THE SLAM [W$13.35 P$4.04]

OUTLAY 9 UNITS. RETURN 16.36 UNITS. BEST DAY SO FAR. [OH BOY, I WOULD HAVE LIKED THE WIN BET [LOVE THAT LINDA MEECH ON THE SLAM !].


SYSTEM SELECTIONS

EAGLE FARM
R6/3 MR BAARDOT [$2.72]
R7/1 ALEGRO SPIRITOSO [W$3.14 P$1.64]
R8/3 SUN SPINNER [$2.18]
R9/2 RACE TRACK

SANDOWN
R5/1 MERRY DRINKER

GOULBOURN
R7/2 THERE IS NO DOUBT

OUTLAY 6 UNITS. RETURN 5.56. LOSS O.04 UNITS

TIME TO CHUCK THE SYSTEM AND HANDICAP SELECTIONS INSTEAD?

[crash]

Today [sat] will be handicapped selections only.
By dropping the system selection method I should see a much better return.

So far there has been a total O/L of 76 units for a return of 80.6. Profit 4.68

[crash]

CAULFIELD ['DEAD', BUT I HAVE HADICAPPED FOR DEAD THIS TRACK]
R2/3 CHARMED LADY
R4/3 ANNA'S CHOICE
R5/2 KELTHORPE
R7/9 MADISON LANE
R8/5 CORRECT AMOONDO

PERTH
R4/8 IS AMAZING

CHELTENHAM
R3/3 EXALTED MADAM
R4/4 HEADLAND
R5/2 FAXED
R6/4 DAME SEVEN
R7/9 OBGLO

DOOMBEN ['DEAD', BUT I HAVE HADICAPPED FOR DEAD THIS TRACK]
R2/3 WESLEY MANOR

BENDIGO
R7/11 COSTA MARBELLA

[crash]

SATURDAY 1ST. APRIL

CAULFIELD
R2/3 CHARMED LADY
R4/3 ANNA'S CHOICE
R5/2 KELTHORPE
R7/9 MADISON LANE
R8/5 CORRECT AMOONDO [$2.92]

PERTH
R4/8 IS AMAZING [$1.42]

CHELTENHAM
R3/3 EXALTED MADAM [$1.54]
R4/4 HEADLAND [W$3.42 P$1.95]
R5/2 FAXED [W$4.59 P$1.63]
R6/4 DAME SEVEN
R7/9 OBGLO [$2.59]

DOOMBEN
R2/3 WESLEY MANOR [$1.96]

BENDIGO
R7/11 COSTA MARBELLA [UNLUCKY 4TH. BUT ONE TO WATCH]

OUTLAY 13 UNITS. RETURN 12.47 LOSS 0.53UNITS
Total O/L overall of 89 units for a return of 93.07 Profit 4.07

MORAL OF THE STORY? MELB. IS FULL OF HORSES WHO DIDN'T 'COME UP' [NOT IN SYDNEY NOW] THIS PREP. AND ARE STRUGGLING TO EVEN PLACE IN THESE WEAK RACES. DURING THE WEEK LOOKS BETTER PROSPECTS [DAY OFF TOMORROW].

[crash]

MONDAY 3RD APRIL

ARARAT
R4/1 COURT ON FIRE
R6/6 TENESSEE TOM (2)
R7/2 ROCKY CAMP

ORANGE
R3/2 I'D BE HONORED
R7/4 FINIAL

DONT LIKE THE CESSNOCK TRACK SO NO TIPS FROM THERE.

[partypooper]

Still showing 4.57% POT there Crash, and I suspect that you can do better on the returns than IAS.

[crash]

Tell me where mate, tell me where !
Remember though I only have 'dial-up' in this hick joint. I can't change from site to site quickly. I need one site only paying better than IAS.

IAS is cagey. They pay more than 2 out of 3. Often the 3rd pays higher [stab usually]. Swings and slides with them.

Cheers.

PS. Luckily I missed getting my first bet on today [Orange]. It lost. Hope I do better on the others.

[partypooper]

Get's a bit complicated but "they " all tell me that you can get BEST of 3 totes (City Eastern States) and best of NSW& Supertab for Country )they Count Perth as Country)
So I bet half at Best of 2 and the other half at Unitab, though I think there is a better way somehow.

I'm talking about PLACE only bets there. (Not sure what happens when the bets get too big though)

[crash]

Party,

Sounds as if I'm stuck with IAS. My place bets range from $50 to $100 but mostly closer to $50. My win bets [where my faith lies] are from $100 to $500 but I bet them TAB [STAB] due to being previously banned from Sportingbet [after one particularly good year] and knowing full well restriction from IAS [$25 win bets] will apply if winning too often, but they will not ban. My only win bet today scored nicely on Rocky Camp which I rated at $2.50 the win. The odds I backed I considered way over the odds at STAB $3.50.

Place Bets.

ARARAT
R4/1 COURT ON FIRE [SP Fav. and missed a place ]
R6/6 TENESSEE TOM [SP Fav. W 1.72 P 1.11] Crap.
R7/2 ROCKY CAMP [3rd. SP. W$3.66 P $1.53]


ORANGE
R3/2 I'D BE HONORED [2nd.SP fav. and missed] I missed getting it on too:-)
R7/4 FINIAL [2nd. fav. ran 2nd.$1.53]

Total outlay for me today was 4 units. Return 4.17 Would have been a loss if all bets were placed. This place business is a hard one. I'm very impressed by anyone who can make a decent stab at it.

[partypooper]

Crash, believe it or not you are doing great!! but that's the thing you see place betting is usually treading water for months sometimes, but usually a great run then puts you in front I've had 19 placed in a row (once) and many many times 10 + in a row, my longest run of outs was 4 (3 times) so far, but usually it's win lose win lose win lose, win win lose win etc etc. But you definitly won't need the blood pressure tabs for place betting.

[partypooper]

PS. Just by the by, your selections today Rocky Camp $4 on Unitab

Place bets

Mr 6-6 $1.20 (unitab)
Mr 7-2 $1.50 (NSW)
Srx7-4 $1.50 (Nsw)

So your outlay = 4 units return = $4.20c a 5% gain rather than a loss,
obvious I know but what I'm saying is your POT would be considerably more shopping
for the divies

Cancell that just read yours again and you did show a profit sorry, but correct in principle.

[feather]

Crash, stick to the nb

[partypooper]

what's nb? (showing my ignorance I know)

[feather]

no Brainer

[partypooper]

ah! well that explains it, I don't have a brain, I have been married "TWICE"

[crash]

Crash, stick to the nb

Hi Feather. So nb is doing OK at the moment is he?

I haven't see him lately so I'll have to pay him a visit and re-look at his angle and 'catch up' a bit. Today sounds like a good idea:-)

Party,
I don't think you know nb. An acquaintance of Feathers and mine. You may have heard of him mentioned before but have probably forgotten. I'll have to introduce you some time [privately]. Worth knowing. Feather thinks a lot of his style. What do you think feather, should we introduce Party to nb?

Nb does have his down side. After one particularly good year following his advice he got me banned from sportingbet for winning too much money !!

[crash]

TUESDAY 4TH APRIL

MACKAY
R6/3 LUX
R7/1 KADINSKI

ALBANY
R5/4 FLYING CROWN

PORT MACQUIRE
R6/2 SO THE CAT SAID
R7/8 MAN IN THE MOON

FOR 'GOOD' TRACKS ONLY

Have a good day :-)

[crash]

MACKAY IS DEAD.
TAKE OUT R6/3 LUX
OK R7/1 KADINSKI

[Neiltown]

Good Start.
So The Cat Said. $2.60 place on STab.
On holidays and a good start.

Keep up the good work
Neil

[Sportz]

MACKAY IS DEAD.


Hey, watch it mate. Some people might think it's just a tad boring living up here, but the town is far from dead. :D :D :D

[crash]

Good start indeed. Man in the Moon is scratched.

Sport, you live in that town? Geez it brings back some memories of me seafaring days out of there. Those bleedin 30-40 knot Sou' wester trades that just go on and on and on for months.

Me and me mate waited 2 weeks to get out of port there in out 45 foot wooden schooner. We had a ton of supplies for that old bugger out on ...on ...on with the 100yr. lease [what are those 3 islands 100ks sth. west of Mackay?]. Anyway we thought bugger it and went for it [lucky to get out of that crappy chopy excuse for a port]. Oh what bliss tacking 100ks sth. west into a 30-40knot Sth.wester. Took us 5 days to get there with waves constantly sweeping the deck !!

Ah, the PERCY islands!! [This galloping Alzheimer's is really getting to me].

Oh what a magical place to live [and shoot wild goats for meat to stock up our supplies]. Is the old bugger still alive out there or has some crappy resort taken over the place?

[Sportz]

Sorry mate, I have no idea who you're talking about.

[crash]

You don't? [no sea in your blood:-)]. Do a google on the Percy islands. The old bugger's [can't think of his name] parents were the first on the place. Took a land rover over there on the deck of a small cruiser back in the 30's. An amazing story. The bloke I am referring to was an Olympic medalist in the triathlon [competed for England] when he was young. Lived there after his parents died well into his 70's [and may still be there].

[crash]

TUESDAY 4TH APRIL

MACKA
R7/1 KADINSKI [w $2.72 p $1.22]

ALBANY
R5/4 FLYING CROWN [3nd. $1.75 and almost pinched it]

PORT MACQUIRE
R6/2 SO THE CAT SAID [2nd. $2.70]
R7/8 MAN IN THE MOON [Scr]

Outlay 4 units,. Return 5.67 units. Profit 1.67 unitys.

[crash]

Plenty to get your teeth into here.

SANDOWN HILLSIDE
R2/8 LAST WALTZ
R3/6 EARLY AWAKENING
R6/2 EDGY AFFAIR
R7/10 ANAIS
R8/1 SILK WIND

WAWICK FARM
R3/5 SERIOUS MONEY
R7/7 EL MEROO

BALAKLAVA
R6/4 UNIVERSAL MAN

ASCOT
R3/7 FRED'S METAL
R7/2 TRIBAL WARRIOR
R8/11 STORMED

[crash]

Wed. 5th. April.

SANDOWN HILLSIDE
R2/8 LAST WALTZ
R3/6 EARLY AWAKENING [w$9.36 p4$2.50]
Track downgraded to Dead 4 at the end of R3 and then Slow 6. No more bets here for me.

WAWICK FARM
R3/5 SERIOUS MONEY [w$2.23 p$1.53] win bet
R7/7 EL MEROO

ASCOT
R3/7 FRED'S METAL [w$2.79 p$1.42]
R7/2 TRIBAL WARRIOR
R8/11 STORMED [p$2.10]

BALAKLAVA
R6/4 UNIVERSAL MAN [p$1.74]

Hope some punters are taking e/w bets !!

Place Outlay 8 units. Return 9.29. Profit 1.29 units.

[crash]

I have gone over all my bets here carefully and I have actually made a small loss on place bets. Following the system [page 1] for the first half of the bets was a downer and shaping up to be a slow but growing loss. Handicapping the bets and ignoring the system has improved the return. Not good for system buffs [not the one I used here anyway].

Total Outlay on all place bets has been 89 units.
Total Return has been 83.67. A loss of 5.33 units and considering the amount of 'action' I've had and the fact I am a very inexperienced place punter, I'm happy with the result so far.
Monitoring prices over different bet sites and betting at the last minute would definitely see a decent long term return on outlay here if profit was the sole objective. Monitoring last minute prices however, is not really my cup of tea.

Out of curiosity I have checked the win bets, although I have not been specifically handicapping for the win, just a winning chance and then backing the selections for the place..

Win results have been: 2..27, 6.50, 4.50, 9.36, 2.23, 11.11, 2.79, 2.72, 3.66, 1.72, 3.42, 4.59, 3.14, 13.35, 1.95, 1.64, 3.14, 2.15, 1.96, 9.41, 10.95, 4.00.
Outlay 89 units. Return: 106.56. Profit 17.56 .

So without even specifically handicapping for the win, the win bet is proving to be a better bet overall so far.

As far as Place betting is concerned, handicapping for runners to place only in my opinion would have been a big mistake. I would be considering too many outsiders [poor place odds for their win SP] which seems to be where most place punters are betting. Not a good move as the returns in that area are mostly pitiful when win SP and place SR for these runners is taken into account. Return for the place for w$3/5 SP runners is often more than for w$7/12 SP runners. The difference in SR offers serious loss potential in the above w$7 SP for place and e/w punters [IMHO :-) ].

[partypooper]

Crash, personally I think you are doing better than you think, as a place bettor I went through some periods of doubt when treading water for months, but I am used to the "long term" pattern now, I've stopped counting how many 4ths I've backed, it all comes out in the wash over a LONG period of time, after a few 1000 bets on the spread sheet, a run of even 5 or 6 losers (very unusual) hardly makes blip on the overall situation.

As you have said many times, a system may have worked for 5 years and maybe not in the next year but then maybe yes the year after etc.

What it all comes down to is how comfortable you feel with your method of betting, in your case I know you enjoy handicapping for the win and that's what you have mastered. I used to do it I'm too much of a gambler at heart, so have to use control betting instead.

[crash]

Plenty of 'control' here Party [not mine], The handbrake thumps me with a few of her Karate body blows [leaves no marks] regularly just to remind me of it !!

Actually as an inexperienced place punter I'm quite happy with the results so far and oh I still win bet don't worry about that and have had some very good collects from all the selections here so far, without skiteing about them every time they come up.

Thursday 6th April

GOSFORD

R1/2 SECRET TOM
R2/1 GLOBAL CROSSING
R7/6 BLUE PATRIACH
R8/1 COUNT OF EIGHT

Might be a few fro WA later. I'll have a peek after lunch if I have time.

[crash]

Thursday 6th April

GOSFORD

R1/2 SECRET TOM [p1.85]
R2/1 GLOBAL CROSSING [unp]
R7/6 BLUE PATRIACH [unp]
R8/1 COUNT OF EIGHT [unp]

Not a good day with strong winds barreling down the course not helping.

Outlay 4 units Return 1.85 Loss 2.15

Roll on Sat.

[crash]

No tips today with rain affected tracks and very strong winds where they are dry.

Tomorrow will have some goodies worth looking at and hopefully make up some units after a lousy day yesterday.

[crash]

Saturday 8th. April.

Today I'm concentrating on the good place money available in the black tie races.
All the other metro tracks look stuffed weather wise. Lets see how we go:

ROSEHILL
R1/3 DANIELS THE MAN
R2/6 DENMARKET
R3/5 SEPIA [E/W?]
R4/12 AQUA D'AMORE
R6/1 PATEZZA
R7/2 CASINO PRINCE
R8/1 LOTTERIA
R9/4 MINDREADER

Tight reigns and good punting.

[crash]

A few more to make an action packed day of it !

ASCOT
8/10 MAGIC HALL

CHELTENHAM [for good or dead track]
R5/13 BROCKERMAN'S LASS
R8/7 DENNING

MOONEE VALLEY [for good or dead track]
R1/3 VIRVACITY [hurdle]
R3/7 WINGS ON FIRE
R6/10 STRADDLE
R9/16 BEXAAR

Some decent odds among these. Maybe worth an e/w ticket on anything here with odds.

[crash]

In the Syd. selections above Aqu D' Amour is in R5 the slipper of course.
Selection for R4/4 EMPRESS LILY.

The hurdler in Melb. is scratched.

[crash]

Bexaar is scratched. Replacement is No 13 Special Number [e/w recommended as with Denning and Straddle]

So far nice e/w win on Wings on Fire at $15.10/$3.20..

[crash]

Saturday 8th of April

ROSEHILL
R1/3 DANIELS THE MAN
R2/6 DENMARKET
R3/5 SEPIA [p1.74]
R4/4 EMPRESS LILY
R5/12 AQUA D'AMORE
R6/1 PATEZZA
R7/2 CASINO PRINCE
R8/1 LOTTERIA
R9/4 MINDREADER [p2.50]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASCOT
8/10 MAGIC HALL

CHELTENHAM [for good or dead track]
R5/13 BROCKERMAN'S LASS [w2.40 p1.42]
R8/7 DENNING

MOONEE VALLEY [for good or dead track]
R3/7 WINGS ON FIRE[w15.10 p3.20]
R6/10 STRADDLE
R9/13 SPECIAL NUMBER

Outlay for place 15 units. Return 8.86 loss 6.14 units. Moral of the story? Stick to my own beliefs: 'Never back black tie races except for fun, they are a Bookie's picnic' [even for the place!]. I did back the Moonee Valley longshots e/w and Wings on Fire gave me a reasonable win overall on the day.

[crash]

Monday 10th. April

Mildura
R2/4 MISS SINATRA
R6/3 BALDOCK
R7/2 IRISH VILLAGE

Moe
R4/5 BALTIC STORM
R6/4 CRESWINA
R7/2 DANAMAN

[crash]

I forgot to add Moe is for tomorrow 11th April.

[crash]

Mildura
R2/4 MISS SINATRA [p2.40]
R6/3 BALDOCK
R7/2 IRISH VILLAGE

Tough going. I think this place caper requires specialization and even it's own 'priceline' to bet to and monitoring prices up to the jump.
Outlay 3 units return 2.4. Loss 0.6 units.

[crash]

I've changed to a better form guide. Hopefully my luck will change with it :-)
Ignore above Moe tips as one is scratched I know of and I've changed one of the selections. Good tracks I think but check these for scratchings and Track condt. Moe is a good track because it's just down the road and it's a very nice day here and will be there too.

Tuesday 11th. April
Moe
R4/6 Simply Sam
R5/3 Romantic Dane
R7/2 Danaman

Townsvillle
R2/2 Winaqua*
R4/3 Jazzoom
R5/4 Specially Made
R8/3 My Saladdin

Wyong
R7/3 Leica Light

[crash]

I never managed to find time to put Wednesday's tips in [below] but I won't add them into totals. Tuesday QLD was abandoned and I had 1 place-getter at Moe [I'll put the price in later]. The copy and post from my new form site has a bit more info. worth adding.


Wed. 12th. March
Syd.
R4/4 Annjolino (6)[p]
R5/7 Savage Sevens (10)[p]
Bendigo
R7/1 Itsamonty (3) [sc]
-------------------------------------------------

Thurs. 13th.
Kembla grange
R2/3 Bedclothes(1) 54.0 4yo br g (R S Englebrecht at Warwick Farm) C Agnew

Terang
R8/7 Pindarri Affair * (8) 53.5 4yo gr m (M S Hibbs at Geelong) S Vella

Moonee valley
R2/5 In Fine Style(5) 54.5 4yo br m (G Portelli at Flemington) Craig Williams
R6/8 Itsamonty (4) 55.54yo ch g (D R Lawson at Flemington) Jocky ?

Looks like good tracks.

[crash]

Thurs. 13th.
Kembla grange
R2/3 Bedclothes (1) 54.04yo br g (R S Englebrecht at Warwick Farm) C Agnew [p1.64]
Terang
R8/7 Pindarri Affair (8) 53.54yo gr m (M S Hibbs at Geelong) S Vella [w3.67/p1.53]

Moonee valley
R2/5 In Fine Style (5) 54.54yo br m (G Portelli at Flemington) Craig Williams
R6/8 Itsamonty (4) 55.54yo ch g (D R Lawson at Flemington) Jocky ? [p1.53]

Tues. R7/2 Danaman [p1.70]

[crash]

Ranwick
R7/12 Three Chimneys
R8/9 Orpington

NZ
R5 Hasta La Ciao ciao
R8. Grani
R10 Korau Road

Caulfield
R7/5 Pinsemtoit

Eagle farm
R2/6 Buck's Secret
R5/3Mikan

Newcastle
R8/1 Red Valentino

Oakbank
R5/2 Lincoln Sea
R8/7 Aptitry
R9/1 Cool Response

Pioneer Park [NT]
R5/3 Fred In The Red

Devonport
R1/4 Phantomofthenight
R7/5 Miss Ambiguous
R7/10 Nuvolari

Ascot
R2/2 Foxy Boy.

Ellerslie
R9/9 Mybigfatgreekhorse
R6/5 Sir Sintillate

Nikita Berriman[a3kg] at Caulfield is worth a look at anything she is on.

Check for scratchings and suitable track condt.

[crash]

I should point out that Ellislie and NZ are one and the same. When I did a copy and paste from my notebook I didn't realize I had 2 lots of NZ tips :-)

[crash]

Coffs Harbour
R6/8 Ramraja
Eagle Farm
R5/2 Good Timing [2nd.p5.60] 25/1 shot
Kyneton
Brief Alliance Scr.
Newcastle
R4/9 Grey Night. Don't know where I got this one from. Can't find him to bet[?]
Oakbank
R9/6 Go August
Ellerslie
R8/11 Alltogether [scr]


Caulfield
R7/5 Pinsemtoit
Eagle farm
R2/6 Buck's Secret [p2.60]
5/3Mikan
Newcastle
R8/1 Red Valentino [w3.4 p1.60]
Oakbank [wet track]
Pioneer Park [NT] Not on the TAB radar it seems. Can't find any results [?]
Ellerslie NZ [wet track]
Devonport [wet track]
Ascot
R2/2 Foxy Boy [p1.50]
Syd.
R7 Three Chimneys [p7.30]
R8 Orpington [w7.90 p3.10]

Place outlay today 10 return 16.1 Profit 6.1
Win outlay today 10 return 11.30 Profit 1.30

From today I am using Unitab prices only as AIS is not available to those without an account. I win less but it's Unitab is more accessible to most and probably a better reflection of profit and loss. My own bets have been 1x4 e/w for several days now as the profit on the win is definitely there. However my personal bets aside, this is still a place tip thread. I am only noting win totals for those interested. Finally after some very good place wins I am back into a small profit for the place.

Total outlay on all place bets has been 118. Return 119.38 Loss 1.38
Total win results have been Outlay 118 units. Return: 127.66. Profit 9.66 .

[crash]

I have accidentaly added in another of my system results wich are the top section tips above [The communist system]

Todays results should read:

Caulfield
R7/5 Pinsemtoit
Eagle farm
R2/6 Buck's Secret [p2.60]
5/3Mikan
Newcastle
R8/1 Red Valentino [w3.4 p1.60]
Oakbank [wet track]
Pioneer Park [NT] Not on the TAB radar it seems. Can't find any results [?]
Ellerslie NZ [wet track]
Devonport [wet track]
Ascot
R2/2 Foxy Boy [p1.50]
Syd.
R7 Three Chimneys [p7.30]
R8 Orpington [w7.90 p3.10]

Place outlay today 7 return 16.1 Profit 9.1
Win outlay today 7 return 11.30 Profit 4.30

Total outlay on all place bets has been 111. Return 113.78 Profit 2.78
Total win results have been Outlay 111 units. Return: 127.66. Profit 16.66

[Merriguy]

Unitab have results for it, Crash. Under Alice Springs. Afraid your pick didn't run a place.

[crash]

Thanks for that Merriguy.
I was going to do a search this morning. I was buggered last night. I'm leaving it off the totals though as I couldn't bet it on IAS or Vic. Tab. The new form service I switched too recently has all race meetings. I didn't realize that meant including those hard to get a bet on for. I won't include NT anymore.

While I'm here I can fix up my overall totals before someone picks me up on them. I was tired and included bets from a system accidentally, took them off and subtracted the place bet it won from my total returns but subtracted 7 units from my outlay instead of the 3 units the system had bet. I have to slow down a bit, as I'm up at 4am [can't help it, always up at that time]. Old enough for a nap in the arvo now I think [before the main races about R4 :-)].

Total outlay on all place bets has been 115 units. Return 113.78 Loss 1.22
Total win results have been Outlay 115 units. Return: 127.66. Profit 12.66

[crash]

Sunday 16th

Albany
R5/7 Mayassa (12)
R6/1 Shane's Boy (9)

Cowra
R1/2 Real Arrow (12)

Penola
Penola R7/1 Wild Will (3)

Stawell
R7/13 Fereronoche (4)

Check Scr. and for rain affected tracks. I bet them 1x4 e/w now but hopefully the place component will be back in profit soon.

[Merriguy]

Cheers, Crash. Happy Easter.

[crash]

Place place
Sunday 16th

Albany
R5/7 Mayassa (12) unp
R6/1 Shane's Boy (9) $1.90p

Cowra
R1/2 Real Arrow (12) 2.40p

Penola
Penola R7/1 Wild Will (3) unp

Oulay 4 units Return 4.30 Profit 0.30

Stawell rain affected.

I'm just using stab prices because that's what I get in Vic. after a race on the radio,Too much bother looking up unitab. It all evens out in the end.

[crash]

Cheers, Crash. Happy Easter.

You too mate. Just pig out on choc. eggs as Easter only comes one a year so who cares?. Chocolate [and salt now], according to recent science reports is good for you, as long as it's dark chocolate !

[crash]

Melb. will be tricky and I have some longish odds among these here, as well as the 2 in Brisb. Fine weather except Oakbank [dead]. 1x4 e/w is my tip even for just the longshot ones.

Ascot
R4/3 Fred's Metal* -c (2) 56.0 -4yo b/br g (D G Mitchell at Ascot) R Markou (a 3.0)
R5/8 Scenic Assault (7) 53.0 -5yo gr/bl (L Smith at Casuarina) M Ewe (a 3.0)
R6/11 Obuasi (8) 53.03yo b g (F R Kersley at South Perth) S Mc Gruddy
R8/12 Metal Power* (13) 53.55yo br g (Ms A M Sharpe at Rangeway) R B Mc Kay
Caulfield
R2/2 Joy Of Flight (2) 57.06yo br m (J G Symons at Seymour) Ms N Beriman (a 3.0)
R3/11 Joie More (12) 53.03yo br f (D L Freedman at Rye) B Melham (a 1.5)
R4/8* Sera Cielo (2) 55.53yo b f (M J Williams at Warrnambool) B Rawiller
R5/16 Paternity (13) 53.03yo ch g (K M Keys at Cranbourne) Ms B Dunn (a 3.0)
R7/7 Drumbeater (15) 53.05yo b/br g (C I Brown at Narbethong) S Baster
Eagle Farm
R3/12 Lambretta (6) 53.06yo b g (D M Tunnah at Oakey) C Spry
R5/14 Loughnan (18) 53.54yo b g (P N Nolan at Toowoomba) A Pattillo

Malcom or the Lad in the Doncaster for me :-)

[crash]

I'm taking no prisoners today. Hope some punters got on board and took my hint for 1x4 ew. Your wallowing in dough by now.

[crash]

Ascot
R4/3 Fred's Metal (2) 56.0 -4yo b/br g (D G Mitchell at Ascot) R Markou (a 3.0) $1.60p
R5/8 Scenic Assault (7) 53.0 -5yo gr/bl (L Smith at Casuarina) M Ewe (a 3.0) Late Scr.
R6/11 Obuasi (8) 53.0 3yo b g (F R Kersley at South Perth) S Mc Gruddy
R8/12 Metal Power (13) 53.5 5yo br g (Ms A M Sharpe at Rangeway) R B Mc Kay $3.70p
Caulfield
R2/2 Joy Of Flight (2) 57.0 6yo br m (J G Symons at Seymour) Ms N Beriman (a 3.0) $6.20w $1.90p
R3/11 Joie More (12) 53.0 3yo br f (D L Freedman at Rye) B Melham (a 1.5) $1.50p
R4/8* Sera Cielo (2) 55.5 3yo b f (M J Williams at Warrnambool) B Rawiller $9.10w $2.70p
R5/16 Paternity (13) 53.0 3yo ch g (K M Keys at Cranbourne) Ms B Dunn (a 3.0)
R7/7 Drumbeater (15) 53.0 5yo b/br g (C I Brown at Narbethong) S Baster
Eagle Farm
R3/12 Lambretta (6) 53.0 6yo b g (D M Tunnah at Oakey) C Spry
R5/14 Loughnan (18) 53.5 4yo b g (P N Nolan at Toowoomba) A Pattillo $24.60w $5.20p

Place outlay 10 units Return 16.6 Profit 6.6 place.
Win outlay 10 units Return 39.9 Profit 29.9 [For 1x4 ew Place outlay 40 return 66.4 Profit 26.4]

Total outlay on all place bets has been 125 units. Return 129.60 Profit 4.60 [I'm ignoring 1x4 ew for scorimg].
Total win results have been Outlay 125 units. Return: 167.56. Profit 42.56

Good day and I hope few of you got onboard.

[luv2bet]

Well done crash, good to see some nice winners.
Hope it continues for ya!!

[partypooper]

You're a legend Crash! keep it up!

[crash]

Thanks guys. I must have had my eye in yesterday.. Not much excitement today but I hope the eye is still in. Not easy ones but I'll give them a whirl at 1x4 ew.

Scone

R5/5 Cotton On (4) 54.0 4yo b g (J A Sylvester at Cessnock) P Graham
R6/7 Queen Jill (4) 54.0 5yo b m (Ms R Cooper at Moonbi) L Morgan (a 1.5)
R8/4 Seven Stars (9) 56.0 3yo b f (R P Northam at Scone) A Robinson

[crash]

Looks like Scone weather has caught me out. I thought it was a fine/good rating there when it was not obviously fine at all. I put all 3 bets on this morning and only heard the downgrade to dead just before R5 on the radio. Obviously Cotton on didn't like the rain and the damp track. Queen Jill did [2nd 2.60p] and after a quick look at the form Seven Stars should win this because it is now 'slow'. I'll let the bet ride and see how we go. Heavy will even be better. 3 starts for a win and a place in that going but there has been 4 or 5 scratching so odds will be skinny and probably no 3rd divvy. A local trainer helps too.

[crash]

Scone Tues. 18th.

R5/5 Cotton On (4) 54.0 4yo b g (J A Sylvester at Cessnock) P Graham
R6/7 Queen Jill (4) 54.0 5yo b m (Ms R Cooper at Moonbi) L Morgan [p2.30]
R8/4 Seven Stars (9) 56.0 3yo b f (R P Northam at Scone) A Robinson [w1.80 p1.20]

Place Outlay 3 units Return 3.50 Profit 0.50units
Win outlay 3 Loss 1.2 .
1x4 P O/L 12 Return 14 Profit 2 Overall O/L 15 R 15.8 Profit 0.8 .

[crash]

Wed. 19th.

Ipswich [fine/good]
R2/ 11 Slugger (10) 54.0 3yo b g (Malcolm Reynolds at Townsville) Ms P Edwards (a 3.0)
R6/6 Tilke Of Wales (NZ) (6) 55.0 4yo b g (M J Flanigan at Toowoomba) M Sano (a 3.0)
R8/2 Heavenly Cruise (15) 56.0 4yo b g (R J Macrae at Toowoomba) S Galloway

Ranwick [fine/good]
R1/2 Sea Chain* (5) 56.0 3yo b c (C I Brown at Narbethong) M Rodd
R2/2 Anwaar (8) 56.5 4yo b g (Ms G Waterhouse at Randwick) J Bowman
R4/5 Rock Revival (3) 55.04yo b m (Ms B Joseph at Canberra) Z Purton
R7/6 Double Dare (NZ) (3) 55.04yo gr g (C J Waller at Rosehill) J A Cassidy

[crash]

Ipswich [fine/good]
R2/ 11 Slugger (10) 54.0 3yo b g (Malcolm Reynolds at Townsville) Ms P Edwards (a 3.0)
R6/6 Tilke Of Wales (NZ) (6) 55.0 4yo b g (M J Flanigan at Toowoomba) M Sano (a 3.0) [late scr.]
R8/2 Heavenly Cruise (15) 56.0 4yo b g (R J Macrae at Toowoomba) S Galloway

Ranwick [fine/good]
R1/2 Sea Chain* (5) 56.0 3yo b c (C I Brown at Narbethong) M Rodd
R2/2 Anwaar (8) 56.5 4yo b g (Ms G Waterhouse at Randwick) J Bowman [p1.80]

R4/5 Rock Revival (3) 55.04yo b m (Ms B Joseph at Canberra) Z Purton [w3.70 p 1.60]
R7/6 Double Dare (NZ) (3) 55.04yo gr g (C J Waller at Rosehill) J A Cassidy [p2.50]

Place O/L 6 Return 5.9 Loss 0.1
Win O/L 6 Return 3.7 Loss 2.3
1x4 O/L 30 Return 27.3 Loss 2.7

Tried a bit too hard on a couple of longshots [slugger and sea change] here, but for anyone following these tips, I personally reduce my exposure [bet] on them and raise it for more certain runners [rock revival and unlucky 2nd. anwaar].. Double Dare a normal bet [median] paid more for the place than the winner for the win and almost stole it. Check the odds on my tips to judge your bet amounts would be my advice. Slugger was about 60/1 [4th].

[crash]

Thurs. 20th March

Bunbury
R6/3 Grand Academy (8) 55.0 4yo b/br g (P J Giadresco at Gelorup) W Pike
Wyong
R5/5 Tercesa (1) 53.5 4yo ch m (Ms G Waterhouse at Randwick) Ms L J Meech
R7/5 Maxi's Boy (7) 56.04yo b g (R J Quinton at Randwick) Tim Clark (a 2.0)


CR Bunbury (WA) sunny Top of 25 degrees.
AR Port Lincoln (SA) 6mm Rain. showers
BR Townsville (QLD) Winds and Showers easing
SR Wyong (NSW) 2mm rain Clearing showers

[crash]

None of Thurs. selections even placed. For basically a place system, I guess you could call that a 'run of outs' [?] :-)

Saterday 22nd. April

Ascot
R9/2 Cristobal

Eagle Farm
R6/2 Shepishir
R7/9 Umatrick

Morphetville
R2/2 Aptitry
R3/2 Fraaclasse
R4/6 Flying Object
R5/3 Master Tianger
R6/4 Plans
R7/5 Royal Ida
R8/8 Denning

Moonee Valley
R5/6 Ginspiel [good or dead ok]

Toowoomba
R3/1 Pearl Of Piccolo
R5/2 Bee Dub

Check scratchings and condt.

[crash]

Saturday 22nd. April

Ascot [o/cast / good]
R8/2 Cristobal

Eagle Farm [fine/good]
R6/2 Shepishir
R7/9 Umatrick

Morphetville [overcast/good]
R2/2 Aptitry
R3/2 Fraaclasse [w$4.50 p$160]
R4/6 Flying Object [w$3.10 p$2.20]
R5/3 Master Tianger [p$2.90]
R6/4 Plans [$2.10]
R7/5 Royal Ida
R8/8 Denning [p$1.80]

Moonee Valley [Slow]

Toowoomba [fine/good]
R3/1 Pearl Of Piccolo
R5/2 Bee Dub [$1.50]

Place O/L 12 R 12.1 P 0.1.

Missed on the 2 Brisbane longish shots. Would have been nice to get one of them. I did pick up on Zabeet [NZ] in the Syd. Cup for a 1x4 ew and he almost won at 45/1 [2nd.$7.20p] . He was too long in the odds to put here, so I had him on top in 'the race of the day' comp. Watch for him in the Melb. Cup, a true 2 miler. A Kiwi will win it this year I think.

[crash]

Well it's been an interesting exercise but I wouldn't give up a day job to try and make a living on place bets. Outright win bets that came up here have killed the place bet. Both are in profit but the win bet only made a very good profit.

These are the last tips for this thread as I will be going back to my normal win bet ways and don't run a tip thread for them. There is certainly a possible future in [selective] 1X4 ew punting, but for me and mine the place only is a hard road with lots of work and little return. I'll leave it for the place experts.

Tips [mostly, but not all from a system I'm working on].

Swan Hill
R8/7 Britain Drive (6) 53.55yo ch m (P A Preusker at Horsham) Ms H Mc Kechnie*

Victoria Park
R7/2 Any Dane Now (3) 56.04yo b m (Aaron Purcell at Warrnambool)
C. Bryant

Ranwick-Kensington
R7/4 St. Tevoc (1) 56.07yo br g (K A Lees at Broadmeadow)
R8/2 Ledger (3) 55.54yo b g (T J Robinson at Berry) Peter Wells (a 3.0)

Flemington
R3/6 Lake Charlotte (USA) (1) 55.55yo b m (D L Freedman at Rye) L Nolen
R5/5 Titanic Jack (15) 55 (T.J Hugues Jr) B. Rawiller [a long-shot bet]
R8/7 Wings On Fire (NZ) (2) 54.56yo b m (M D Moroney at Flemington) G J Childs

Ascot
R6/3 Calico Blue (7) 55.03yo b f (Ms R Macphilomey at Geraldton) M R Forder

Cheers
Crash.