brisbane&adelaide bookies

[kenchar]

There has been a lot of talk about the high percentages the bookies in these states bet to. I was at canterbury today and as a matter of interest watched the market our local interstate bookies were giving.
Remember these are rails bookies who as far as I know are all Multi Millionaires{ no wonder). In EVERY race I checked,in the first five in the market they were under fluctuations with 2 or 3 nags and no better prices on the long shots. Here is one race I wrote down and believe me all the others were the same. The percentages on the monitor at the jump were 145% so what were the fleas at canterbury betting to.

ADELAIDE BOOKS 2.25-6-5-8.5-7-5.5
SYDNEY FLEAS 2.0-5.5-5-8.5-7-4.6
So if adelaide was 145% what the hell were the sydney millionaires betting to. Yes these are sour grapes because the least I expect to get is the odds in the home state. Oh and by the way it wasn"t because they had taken big bets on certain nags they were ALWAYS under from the start of betting.

[Dr Pangloss]

And their (bookies) representative Mr.Tim Ryan was bleating about the evils of Betting Exchanges on last Sunday mornings Racing Retro.

[The Late Mail]

On 2003-07-23 19:21, kenchar wrote:
There has been a lot of talk about the high percentages the bookies in these states bet to. I was at canterbury today and as a matter of interest watched the market our local interstate bookies were giving.
Remember these are rails bookies who as far as I know are all Multi Millionaires{ no wonder). In EVERY race I checked,in the first five in the market they were under fluctuations with 2 or 3 nags and no better prices on the long shots. Here is one race I wrote down and believe me all the others were the same. The percentages on the monitor at the jump were 145% so what were the fleas at canterbury betting to.

ADELAIDE BOOKS 2.25-6-5-8.5-7-5.5
SYDNEY FLEAS 2.0-5.5-5-8.5-7-4.6
So if adelaide was 145% what the hell were the sydney millionaires betting to. Yes these are sour grapes because the least I expect to get is the odds in the home state. Oh and by the way it wasn"t because they had taken big bets on certain nags they were ALWAYS under from the start of betting.

The prices bet by Brisbane and Adelaide bookies are the laughing stock of Australia.It makes you wonder why punters would be so stupid to bet with them.
Tune into Radio TAB on the Qld TAB site at about 8.40 am and listen to Lindsay Gallagher BRIS and Curly Seale ADEL and listen to the big bets they bet.$50,000 to this $60,000 to that, but the punters on course are flat out getting a $5000 bet on at the quoted price.Makes you wonder.
The sooner it is all TAB the better off punters will be. The weak bookies are betting back and ruining the prices for the average TAB punter.
Why people continue to support bookies is another of racings mysteries.

[partypooper]

now theres a red rag to a "Bull"

[brissy]

Late mail, do you honestly think that the TAB(s) will keep their pecentages to 115 odd percent once, or if, the bookies have all disappeared?????
Have a look at the take in NZ and Singapore, I think it is something in the order of 25-30% for the win bet. Try holding your own giving away that sort of start with no betting alternative.
You should be very very careful what you wish for just in case you get it.

[xanadu]

Well said brissy,

Although we have problems in our racing scene, we punters still have the best of both worlds. That is, the serious punter being to compare the odds on offer between bookies and tote and betting only when he/she believes the odds are in his/her favour.
Yes, the scenario you envisaged is not very attractive at all is it(ie. tote domination of betting)?
All over the world where this is the case, racing appears to be in the doldrums.

Cheers

[kenchar]

Went to Rosehill last Saturday and noted no difference with the fleas except one, namely Bill Waterhouse.He had his market up before the opening market and in most races in the 8.0 to 12.0 range He was giving A better price than the FLEAS.Not one Of these horses won.Doomben R5 He had Winsome Dancer at 7.5 I smelt a rat and got 9.0 off a FLEA ta very much.Now Im not saying Bill is a GURU but it was good to see A Bookie setting His own BOOK and not being a sheep like the rest of the fleas. The Sydney Bookies are totally different and one can really shop for prices.

[kenchar]

Dont know if anyone took notice of what I said about Bill Waterhouse But I seriously suggest that any Sydney punters that actually go to the track watch what I have said about his prices. Today Rosehill 3 bets stood out where he was shorter than other books. Result $7 plce---$3 plce and the cream Melb R4 CAHUITA $26 ALL BOOKS WATERHOUSE $19,SO I dont really think he wants to take a bet on it. I had $50E/W tote box tri with high flyers jackpot selections. Box first 4 with jackpot selections. Result 47-90 win 10.30 plce Tri $1287 F4 $7544 THATS WHAT I CALL A RESULT. No pie shop tonight.

Cheers

[tragic]

could'nt lend us a couple of bucks eh kenchar ??

[kenchar]

Forgot to mention Abdullah all books 3.0 Waterhouse 3.3. Dont this seem like he WANTS you to back this horse with him???????

Cheers

[darkydog2002]

years ago at wangaratta i watched a bookie bring in an absolute dog from 10/1 to 3/1.up to that point there was absolutely no money for this poor creature but the minute it was wound in punters come from everywhere to back it.from recollection it ran 8th.

[kenchar]

Classic example first race Rosehill.
Kingston Classic opened 2.6 out to 5.5 and 6.0 was obtainable from couple of them.
My point is who did the books think was the best horse in the race when they opened. Its obvious but no money came for it and blew. Won with a leg in the air.
These guys have more info than any of us will ever get and if you learn to try to read them and what they are doing it throws up a lot of horses that are on the job. They dont all win of course. Im not saying its every race. Ive seen days where nothing that can sniffed out shows up. If IM on a horse and it gets backed off the map my confidence wains as very very few of these salute the judge.

Cheers

[Mark]

....and who was it that was unders Fine Cotton all those years ago?

[kenchar]

Thats obvious because he didnt want to take money on it for obvious reasons.

Cheers

[kenchar]

Havent had any response to this thread from anyone that goes to the track and working their bet out from looking at odds.
I sincerely dont think its any worse than doing the form.
Ive been looking at something for the last 3 months and today put it in to practise at Canterbury.
Backing 2 horses every race on bookies odds & games only and not looking at any FORM.
Total outlay 54
Total return 99
Profit 45
Last saturday had a pie shop day doing form & ratings, doing my odds thing would have had a blinder.
Just interested if their is anyone else out there that works from odds & not form.

Cheers

[topsy99]

i do listed and group horses only. i dont do form as it is misleading.
form may be relative but i never found out what it is relative to.
i must be careful here as it may suggest that i back/fluke a winner occasionally.
i check the most recent performer in listed/group class (placed) and check the odds. highest priced is backed.
on saturday (i wasnt going to do this) century kid placed in group company 3 starts ago. won at 14/1 beating covet thee placed last start in group company.
edgeton placed 3 starts ago group company good odds. sunday joy won group one two starts ago.
can they win first up who knows but so what we have been wrong before.
sunday smoky island running in a flying at halidon won 3 in row recently in adelaide
listed placed horse would assume some sort of chance at halidon in a $4000 flying. paid $10.10
son of spartacus in the last at adelaide on saturday. only two listed horses in the race placed 1st and third.
today monaco miss the only listed placed horse running at seymour. paid $8.10 for a win. form is a diversion rather than a help.

[kenchar]

Hi topsy99,
At least someone has similar ideas to me.
You are a lot more refined in what you are doing than what I am,but very interesting what you do and worth looking at.
As Ive posted before I have been off the punting scene for 13 years. Prior to that lived off it for 4 years never made a fortune but paid the bills.
13 years ago there was no computers as such,data bases spreadsheets etc etc etc.
I ONLY bet at the track,if I could get there,e.g Metro Sydney, Wyong, Newcastle, Gosford,Kembla etc. If I couldnt get to a track, because of distance NO bet.
I NEVER looked at form because there is a lot better than me out there you just have to try to read what is happening.
Since I started punting again recently I thought I would do it the professional way,form, ratings etc.
I must admit I have had reasonable success
with this site and will continue to use it my own way (exotics).
I think the biggest problem today is we have all become too lazy,all the betting sites,this offer,that offer,this bonus etc etc.
I firmly believe if one is to have success at this game,get off your a*** get to the track and watch what is happening.

Cheers
Ps A very similar idea to what you are doing but on a lower scale,is you can see a horse that has been running at say Randwick,Flemington,Doomben,etc, have been off the scene for 6 to 12 months and pop up at Moe, Mackay,etc.
Watch how many of these get up at huge odds.
Another advantage Of being at the track take the winner SYD1 18 most books,26 available with one of em, checked tonite best 3 tab price 14.7,even if you are on line with a bookie you wont get the 26. Will be interesting in the morning to see what starting price was.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kenchar on 2003-09-16 20:36 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kenchar on 2003-09-16 21:16 ]</font>

[Mark]

Kenchar

I realised long ago my ratings weren't consistent enough. My main source of racing income involves no form study whatsoever, figures alone.
SR6 last Saturday was a classic example.
Add up the place %.

[kenchar]

Mark,
Syd R6 must be a good race, today backed 2 horses for a place, 2nd & 3rd check the odds.

Cheers

[topsy99]

ref sydney race 6.
numbers 4 and 1 only two listed horses in the race. unfortunately beaten by the favorite. (or fortunately if you were on the fave)
(fiammarosa and highest)
only other listed horse running in sydney was out of form prude.

[kenchar]

Hi Topsy,
Very interesting concept you have here.
If you have two in a race you say you back the highest odds,if they are both good odds have you worked out over a period backing both,e.g profit loss as to backing one.
Per example R6 SYD yesterday,What an enormous E/W bet backing both,basically 6 chances in 14 to get a profit and if one of them saluted!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

[kenchar]

Waterhouse today, only 2 showed up.
CAPTAIN ZIGZAG all books 6.5 OLD BILL 6.0
UP THE BID all books 3.3 OLD BILL 3.l
Thanks Bill dont retire and Ill keep collecting.