Roulette system promises big returns

[Gambo]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone out there has heard of EDITED.? It basically seems to be a roulette betting system that, if followed correctly, promises big returns. It has been offered to me to purchase and I have been looking on the internet for any information about it but have come up with nothing......If anyone knows about it or has any information it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

======================================
Due to defamation laws we are not permitted to name individuals, businesses or their products and set them up to be publicly torn to pieces. That is defamation and against the law.

[Mr J]

"t basically seems to be a roulette betting system that, if followed correctly, promises big returns."

Then why is he selling it???

UNLESS the book talks about using physics (to find out where the ball will land, finding crooked dealers (ie cheat) or finding a biased wheel, then the method is BS.

Using physics can be done but it is far from easy.

Crooked dealers, well it's cheating and if you get caught (likely) then you are pretty screwed.

You need tons of data to find a biased wheel. They are hard enough to find anyway, and the advantage just isn't worth it.

I'd leave the book alone.

[karla909]

Hi gambo

Without going into the details of my "sordid" life, I have a life long fascination with roulette. I once lived in Monte Carlo for 8 months funded by playing roulette.Although I have given up playing it many years ago, I bought the book in question out of interest.

As Mr J pointed out most of the systems in the book are about finding a biased wheel. The rest are straight progressive systems and some interesting theories on the power of positive thinking.
I have several spreadsheets with 100,000's of actual roulette sequences and ran their theories through the sequences. They all lost.

Roulette can not be broken mathamatically due to the doubling table limit which is usually set at 6 to 8 times the minimum bet.

As a game it is a fun thing to do on occassion. As a way to make money, like all casino games it will get you in the end.

It is an interesting read but in my opinion it is best to give he flick.

I filed the book somewhere in my office and if you want further info I'll try and dig it out.

Karla

[Mr J]

Just a note about progressions, better to use a positive progression than a negative progression. Much smaller bankroll requirements = less lost overall :)

[punter57]

Mr J, you are 100% correct in nominating positive progression betting as the way to lose least or even win at roulette. Contrary to general belief it is not the zero which gives the casino the edge (2.7%), but THE TABLE LIMIT. Why else is it there?? Even Mr A. Einstein (the only reference to Roulette I can recall from him) made THIS point.
If you are chasing losses by playing a negative progression (ie increasing after losses) you can do it very gradually by, maybe increasing your bets by a small percentage OR aggressively by doubling or even tripling etc. Either way you are going to end up with many small wins followed by a massive wipeout. With doubling, if you are playing ,say,Black (ie 1 then 2 then 4 then 8 etc if Red keeps coming instead) you will win 1 unit each time it arrives (you lose 1 then win 2 = +1; you lose 1 then lose 2 then win 4 =+1 and so on ) until, after numerous successes you get a long run against you and it's -1,-2,-4,-8,-16,-32,-64,-128,=-255 but you CAN'T BET 256 because the table limit is 250!!! So what next? The limit? If successful you are only -5 but WHAT IF YOU LOSE AGAIN? Now -511 and still at the limit!!
This unfortunate occurence wipes them all out. But if you are doing the opposite: increasing after a win you will EXPERIENCE the opposite as well. Numerous small losses followed by a monster win as you hit the limit but KEEP the casino's money because they won't let you risk your winnings any further!! This is quite contrary to the hopes of the casino; THEY want you to lose BIG and then stop, busted.
Also, of course if you hit the "winning streak" early you can walk away an immediate winner, whereas with the negative progression you win so slowly that you have to stay and stay and stay and stay to get well enough ahead to "call it a day", all the while with the negative run just around the corner. The moral? Be POSITIVE. That's all folks!!!!

[Mr J]

Sort of agree and disagree. The mathematical advantage obviously comes from their edge, and that is how they profit longterm. The betting limits are just a way of limiting their risk, which is a kind of advantage. They basically make alot of slightly +ev wagers.

If casino's didn't have max betting limits they'd go bust vs lucky/super bankrolled martingalers. Or at least encounter enough variance to mess up their operation ;)

Without a max bet martingale looks fine, but there is always the possibility that you will lose every bet forever. Problem for the casino is that the edge itself isn't enough, they need to curb their risk ('overbetting' would lead their +ev game to be -ev).

Casino's love martingale (when they have the usual limits) since the bettor is turning over a very large amount of money, much more than a min bettor.

[thefan]

let me just add my 2 cents. Lets say your sucessful with your systems, the hardest role in all this is discipline. When to walk?Limits? Over a long term period your bound to take further risks due to the fact that your on a role.

The only way Ive found gambling sucessful is to look at it as a job. Not easy money

[Hay Chee]

if u work on mind power on mind over matter and if you practise hard or if u have the gift you can look at that roulet ball concentrate realy hard get a picture of everthing in your mind and u can control it You can transmit the power of your mind and realy have some control over that ball there is so much more brain power we can use because we only use a small fraction of our brains power the most powerful computer is the human brain

[karla909]

Hi Gambo


Finally located the roulette book. Just to make sure we are talking about the same one, this one has 3 words in the title which the first letters are T R B.

DISCLAIMER. I bought the book but have not followed it other than put its systems through computiresed simulations, all of which lost. I am only reporting because of your request. I have no opinion other than my own experience.

The first 54 pages of the book are an intro to roulette.

page 56 to 99 describe various wagering plans. The wagering plans are discussed below
pages 101-108 describe what casinos do when you start winning the $100,000 a month by following the systems. A very interesting read.

The systems

1. TRB - You watch a table for 180 spins and write down all the numbers. If the table has 3 numbers that occur more than others, these are hot numbers. You go back the next day and record 60 more. If the 3 numbers come up more often again, then you bet using a progression. I never tested this

2. TWB - A system that bets on the (almost) even money bets (ie red/black) using a mathematical progression after a certain sequence. My tests showed lots of small wins and then a couple of monstrous losses that ended in big losses.

3. WAF - A method that shows theoratically that by covering 33 numbers, you will win all the time, especially after a certain sequence of numbers. (Mathamatically flawed in my opinion)

4. TRF - A progressive system based on the dozens/columns. My tests showed lots of small wins and then a couple of monstrous losses that ended in big losses.

5.ECF - another progressive system (ie 10,40,130.400) on dozens/columns. Again - play it long enough and the casino will get you.

The biggest flaw in the book, is that in most of the examples, 0 never or rarely appears. Except for method 1 which may or may not work depending if you believe that roulette wheels are flawed, the rest are maths progressions that you can source from other places.

The book comes with some tapes about positive thinking.

My conclusion is that all casino games have a built in house advantage that will get you in the end. Like others that have contributed to this page I believe that wagering up to $1,160 to win $10 is not a sound strategy. Bad sequences do occur. Much better to stick to sports and racing strategies where research can give you an edge. Casino games have a built in factor where the edge is with the house.

and of course, if this works so well and easily why does the author want to flog it to us. why not just hire people to work the systems and take 10% of the profit. Easy answer - it doesn't work quite like the author says. It would be interesting to meet the testimonial people after a year or so. most of the systems will work 90% to 95% of the time. But the 5% it losses will bring you back to square -1. I suppose if enough people use it, a small % will always be lucky.

Hope this helps.

[Mr J]

let me just add my 2 cents. Lets say your sucessful with your systems, the hardest role in all this is discipline. When to walk?Limits? Over a long term period your bound to take further risks due to the fact that your on a role.

The only way Ive found gambling sucessful is to look at it as a job. Not easy money

You do have to approach gambling as a job. Have to approach it professionally. Dicipline is one of the most important parts when it comes to succeeding from gambling, but you also need an edge. His systems don't give him an edge, doesn't matter when he chooses to walk. Every time he places a bet he loses money.

Hay Chee you still alive??

"Much better to stick to sports and racing strategies where research can give you an edge. Casino games have a built in factor where the edge is with the house."

You can get an edge off casino games. I'll write everyone a list, and if they don't use one of these methods then they don't have an edge:

1. Card counting. Keeping track of the cards that come out in blackjack so you know when the deck favours you.

2. Video poker basic strategy. Doesn't really matter in australia, I don't think we have many of these. What you do here is find machines that will overpay (ie not people winning, but where the jackpot is large enough that it covers the house edge).

3. Sharpshooting. Craps, being able to throw the dice skillfully enough to give an advantage.

4. Roulette prediction using physics. Ie use physics to determine where the ball will land. Some people have the co-ordination and brainpower to do this with their brains, but most who use this method use a computer. The computers aren't cheap and this method is illegal in most places around the world.

5. Flawed wheel. Roulette. You won't find these in australia. It takes awhile to find these, and then silly amounts of data to get a good idea if it is actually biased. The advantage it gives you won't be worth your time.

6. Bored dealers. Roulette. Some croupiers are skilled enough to land the ball in the part of the wheel they want often enough to give an edge. If they're doing this and you're taking advantage of it the croupier will pick up on it quickly and probally stop (unless he wants to get busted for cheating).

7. Crooked dealers. Similiar to 6 but the dealer is working with you to give you an advantage. This is cheating and the casino WILL pick up on it.

8. Cheating in general. Whether it's taking chips or moving a bet while people aren't looking, or a dealer overpaying you etc etc. Cheating and really not worth it.

If you use any of the methods that involve cheating (6,7,8 and 1&4 if using a computer), you do so at your own risk and I'm not responsible for any mess you get yourself into.

[punter57]

Re the "edge" Mr J (post 6), it's also well known that a disadvantageous run (ie 30 heads in a row) can kick in in a genuine 50/50 game like coin-tossing.ie there is NO edge but you still lose.It is your inability to finance a negative progression which will kill. It can also happen when you have a probability ADVANTAGE. For example, at Roulette the house decides to pay 40-1 on single numbers tonight as it's the casino's 40th anniversary. You have to nominate ONE number only and, unluckily for you it only comes 9 times in 370 spins (not enough at Level stakes), instead of the expected 10 times. You use a negative progression BUT hit the limit. Uh oh; no house edge and the LIMIT brings you undone. You might argue that 370 spins is not enough for the "advantage" to show up, which is true. a positive progression, however, might still make you a winner, if for example you got a two or more of YOUR number close together.
The Zero has the REAL function of wiping out all the non single-number bets each time it appears in roulette. Unfortunately in any normal evening's roulette, if the zero DOES NOT APPEAR the house will still win due to the IRREGULAR appearance of the other numbers/bets forcing gamblers TO THE LIMIT, if negatively progressing.
In the coin tossing above, if you were on Tails, the thirty heads would simply be 30 straight 1-unit losses if using a positive progression. If you were lucky enough to be on heads in a no-limit game, it would be billions in YOUR favour.
As you can see "house advantage" is not the problem but the LIMIT, being imposed

The Fan. If you played Roulette with a positive progression and got to the limit, you would probably be ahead. (unless you were unlucky). You should have a pre-set win target and if not there yet; keep playing until you either DO get there OR you lose the lot. Once at your goal (you will probably overshoot at first) either leave immediately or else play the "overshoot" until
you fall back to your goal (and leave) OR get further ahead and then play on until you either fall back to the first "overshoot"(then leave) OR win again and get still further ahead. Then play until you either fall back to your second "overshoot" (then leave) oR win again and go still,still further ahead etc etc. In other words you are climbing a ladder. Cheers.

[Mr J]

"It is your inability to finance a negative progression which will kill"

Doesn't really matter if you don't have the edge. Either variance busts you quickly or the house edge gets you in the longrun. A negative progression creates huge turnover so it is quite reasonable that someone can lose it to just the house edge (ie not because of variance).

Progressions are silly anyway because even if you actually had an advantage you are still overbetting (unless you are heavily bankrolled) :)

[karla909]

Your a funny guy MR J.


Laughed all the way to the grave.


Seriously have you ever tried varying your bets at blackjack. Funny how it suddenly attracts all the bosses. Also, many may skoff at your suggestion that roulette croupiers can position a roulette ball. I once watched a training session (they didn't know I spoke French) and some of those guys in Monte Carlo, I reckon can place a ball within 5 numbers 90% of the time.


Love your humour.

Karla

[punter57]

Don't know if it was THAT funny K909, what Mr J had to say. Anyway I'm of the opinion (maybe wrong) that the "edge" is to beat anyone playing level stakes (over time) and to simultaneously stop people playing all the numbers/both sides of the colours etc to their advantage. The "limit" is the casino's second line of defence, specifically to stop progression systems.
Mr J. Your first post in this thread was to do with progressions. That's the only reason I mentioned them.Cheers.