Ashes 4th Test

[Sportz]

Prices are out now with the various bookies and again Australia are favourites. And England has actually gone out in the betting from where they opened last time! Seriously, are these guys watching the same Cricket that I'm watching???

[racingnovice]

Seems weird sport but you got to look at the last week. England havnt played a match since the last test aussies played 1 were both hayden and clarke got 100's with hayden, clarke, ponting all getting back to some form along with warne making runs its understandable that bookmakers still have the aussies favourites. After all we havnt even seen australia play at 100% sofar this tour.

If aussies can bat 1st and make 400+ you might see englang under pressure for the first time since the 1st test then we will see how good they are.

[Sportz]

Question is will Australia be bold and play Tait or will they just be dead boring and play Kasprowicsz??? I've got nothing against Kasper (he should have played instead of Gillespie last time), but he certainly doesn't strike any fear into the English batsmen. The bold attacking move would be to pick Tait, but I bet they go for the boring safe defensive option! :rolleyes:

I reckon they should give Hodge a go too, but they almost certainly won't do that.

[luv2bet]

If australia dont play Tait then something is very wrong. Most Australians agree that he should play, he is an unknown to england and lets face it our bowlers havnt been breaking records..... well actually there have been a few records broken but the reverse swing of tait at a good speed could prove a winner. I agree with you sportz about rating kaspa as a bowler but hes not going to tear through em, which is what we need. I think mcgrath will be hoping for Tait as well as it will elevate him up the batting order!!!!!
Tait plays Ill have a crack on the aussies for sure..

[maverick1993]

To risky picking Tait ..he sprays them under pressure..Kaspa's a good defensive option ..gives the attack balance and can bowl into the wind ,up the hill and revers swing...we have Lee and Mcgrath and Warne in form . thats enough ,,we just need to catch a few ..
Is clarke fit ?? if not i'd like to see Hodge in there ..this would give our middle order a bit of stability ..we have to many shot makers....this is fine against substandard attacks but against the good ones you need that balance..
the Aussies win this ..and win it well,,

[Sportz]

What the...?

Just seen our new selector Merv Hughes on the news and believe it or not, he sounded like he actually wanted to give Gillespie another go!!! Fair dinkum, are these guys for real. How terrible does someone's form have to be before they get dropped??? And he seemed to be more upset with the fact that Ponting didn't bowl Gillespie enough. C'mon guys. Do something positive, PLEASE!!! Pick someone new!!! At the moment, Australia is just looking old, tired, slow and out of form.

I've seen the World teams chosen today for that 'Super Series' against us in October. Seriously, I'll be very surprised if we don't get thrashed!!!

[Sportz]

McGrath's got an elbow injury and is in doubt. That's all we need. :rolleyes:

[Chuck]

australia will not lose this testmatch...england should be 10-1

[Sportz]

I'll hold you to that.

[discipline pays]

AS always, back the poms at the 4.00 and lay off when aussies blow out.

Form isn't playing much of a part in the market, just reputation

[Sportz]

Hope I'm wrong, but judging from what I've seen on the Cricinfo scores website, it looks like McGrath is probably out. They still have the whole squad listed for Australia, but they've just moved Kasprowicsz up into the first 11 places instead of McGrath. :(

[Sportz]

Yep. He's out and we've lost the toss. England are definitely the value with no McGrath there.

[Sportz]

Unfortunately, it's all going just as I thought it would. We're stuffed! :(

[Sportz]

Geez, how hard can it be to bowl with your foot behind the damn line!!!

[maverick1993]

looks a draw to me..i could score a hundred on that wicket...
no excuses for the no balls..thats just pathetic....
seems weird to me they'd prepare a wicket like that with their pace attack on fire..seems the gambled on winning the toss and it worked..

[Sportz]

Well, a pretty good comeback there, mainly thanks to Tait. 4/229 isn't too bad for Australia. Depends how much rain is around for the rest of the game now.

[racingnovice]

Should be better then 4/229. 2 dropped catches could have had england in big trouble. no excuses for the no balls and dropped catches. 3 missed chances and alot of free runs england should buy the aussies a beer they should have been 8 or 9 down if not all out for 200.

[Sportz]

The roles are reversed. Bowling no balls, sloppy fielding, dropped catches, poor running between wickets. Those sorts of things used to be the reason why England were so far behind us. Now it's our problem!!!

[racingnovice]

How much has very poor umpire decisions cost the aussies? Flintoff was LBW for 8 and jones just caught behind both not given out :(.

[Sportz]

Goodbye Ashes. :(

[goldmember]

Dust to dust, R.I.P

[Marcus]

Bowlers win test matches.

Australia had two bowlers who failed to perform. Despite all the hype, Brett Lee has a test bowling average well over 30. After playing so many tests that is not the bowling average of a top test bowler.

Australia's batting has been badly found out. The pressure is relentless against four excellent pace bowlers with a competent spinner added.

Look at the difference between what Australia's bowling attack came up with compared to England's. When England bowled there was venom in the attack and swing that wasn't there when Australia bowled. England's bowlers as a group are simply in another class.

Australian cricket is now clearly in decline. Australian Test careers will be ended as a result of this series.

[Marcus]

I'll further add Ponting's captaincy is being found out.

On the field he has poor body language when things aren't going well - looks to have the weight of the world on his shoulders. That's hardly the way to get team mates up.

Then there's his decision making, from the howler of sending England in to bat in the second test to the non bowling of Tait towards the end of England's first innings in this test, not giving Tait a chance at picking up five wickets in his first test, when Tait was clearly the most effective pace bowler.

[racingnovice]

The batting has been bad yes but the bloody umpires are shocking. Ponting and martyn both given LBW when they clearly hit the ball first.


When the poms get a free 100-150runs from poor umpire decisions then the aussies lose 2 wickets from poor decisions. It makes it hard for any team to bounce back.


The aussies need to avoid the follow on and struggle for another draw.

[goldmember]

Yes, all teams get good and bad decisions, dont remember anyone complaining when things go australia's way, everyone raved about Clarke's 150 on debut against India, but he was clearly out on 90 and got let off, dont worry the pommies turn will come again [dont know when , but i hope its sooner than later] i just hope that its the pomms better play rather than the aussies sliding downhill, but if its not, maybe were heading back to the dark days of the 80's when we were the easybeats.

[racingnovice]

I know there is always bad decisions but usually only 1 or 2 a game not 4 within 2days all against the 1 team. There is nothing anyone can do about it but all 4 decisions should never have been wrong they wern't that hard.

I'd love to see what ponting puts on his umpires report after the match lol.

[goldmember]

Has anyone got suggestions on these line bets:

Australia

under 405.5 $1.85
over 405.5 $1.85

clarke

under 79.5 $1.85
over 79.5 $1.85

katich

under 55.5 $1.85
over 55.5 $1.85

i need something to watch and bet on

[Chuck]

I'd take both the Katich and Clarke over bets - probably th +405 as well

[goldmember]

thanks , i'll have a couple of bucks on all of them, for some reason i'm in a betting frenzy mode, [ not the norm],want to bet non-stop to day and tonight and probably in the morning.

[mad]

I'd say the opposite goldie, just to confuse matters.

Well at least one wicket expected to fall during the morning session. Just a guess but I'll go Katich under, Clarke under and Aussies under. Hope i'm wrong though.

[Chuck]

Bets for 28th of August (just for the sake of betting ;))

GOLF: BMW Intl Open - RD4 2Ball 1: Nicholas Fasth - $1.90
GOLF: BMW Intl Open - RD4 2Ball 4: Luke Donald - $1.80
GOLF: Buick Championship - RD4 3Ball 3: Jerry Kelly - $2.15
MOTOR SPORTS: C Republic 250cc: Daniel Pedrosa - $1.65
MOTOR SPORTS: C Republic MotoGP: Valentino Rossi - $1.35
CRICKET: Day 4 Method of 1st dismissal: Caught Fieldsman - $2.15

[Sportz]

Well, those crook umpiring decisions look pretty damn important now. I reckon another 50 runs probably would have been enough. :(

[racingnovice]

Yep sportz the umpiring has been poor. Both tests england has won the umpires have given them 50-100 runs this match was 150+ with flintoff being plum LBW on 8 and jones caught on 35 thats around 150 alone then you ad the 3 bad LBW decisions against the aussie batsman :(.

Still think aussies will win last test and keep the ashes unless the umpires play yet another part.

[mad]

Yep - Aussies to win last test.

Starting to see a bit of intensity in their play for the first time this series, which raises the obvious questions. I wonder if their is any chance the Pomms would play Pietersen as wicket keeper?

[angel417]

Geez you guys,I thought the poms were supposed to be the whingers!At least give some credit where it is due!Umpires do not win/lose test matches.Referees can lose you a footie game with one bad call,but over a 5 day game good/bad decisions tend to even out.The poms have simply outplayed us as a team,they have a blend of youth & expereience,which we simply cannot match with our ageing team.They are so full of confidence and unless we can pull a rabbit out of the hat we are gone for all money.IMO Ponting is not a good skipper,and Vaughan is exposing that.Look at pontings decision not to bat first at edgbaston,that cost us the match.Look at the way vaughan rotates his bowlers so well.Look at his tactical yet unorthodox field placings.Look at how well his bowlers BOWL to the field placings.Our batsmen,top order in particular,are now intimidated by Freddie and co.so the boot is on the other foot,and sadly our blokes are being found wanting.
IMO Ponting ended Dizzies carreer at Edgbaston by bowling him so late,he is basically a new ball bowler.If Warnie hadn't started to screw up years ago when he was being groomed for the captaincy,it could be a different ball game.Maybe he is venting his spleen over his private life,BUT he is the only one(IMO)that is taking it to the poms,and he is the only player they respect.
Brett Lee is just a pretty boy that can bowl fast.His figures per wicket are atrocious.IMO its time for a changing of the guard.Time for Hodges,Haddin,Clarke,Symonds(WISH he was there,he has no fear)and co. to take over.Now,not in 3 years time.How they could of used Michael Bevan on this tour.The selectors should not be left out either,they picked this squad on reputation more than considering form and age,and its backfired on them badly.
My only advice to Ponting is to open the batting and bowling with Warne,and let him bat & bowl FRO BOTH ENDS!!!!Then we might be a chance.
Cheers

[Sportz]

Hey, I'm not whinging. I've done VERY well out of backing England because unlike many other Australians, I genuinely thought they could win this series. But this test match was a very close result and England definitely got by far the better of the umpiring, so who knows what could have happened.

Purely on facts and figures, England have been clearly the better team. But when you think about it, if McGrath had played all 4 tests and if we had batted first in the 2nd test, chances are, we'd probably be leading 3 nil now. We were almost totally outplayed in the 2nd and 4th tests and yet we still came close to winning both of them and both with no McGrath.

[angel417]

And if the rabbit had not stopped for a **************** because it's OVERCONFIDENCE about winning the race it would have caught the turtle.Games are not won or lost on facts and figures,they come after the event.Sad about McGrarh,but he cannot win the game on his own,and the poms are wary of him now,and just try to play thru his spell with caution.Even though you rightly pointed out Sportz the games have been close,barring the 1st test that is,IMO the poms have always been in control,or had that slight psychological edge.They are sticking it up us big time,and clearly our blokes are not used to it and dont know how to cope with it,especially the top order batsmen.
They have not faced a quality bowling attack like this for a long time,some of the shots they are getting out on are quite radical.Watch their body language on the field,and never forget the old adage"dropped catches lose matches."
Would you ever see Lillee or Thommo or Pascoe smile at a batsman like Lee and co. do?No venom,no fire in the belly,too soft and grossly overpaid.

[Sportz]

Even though you rightly pointed out Sportz the games have been close,barring the 1st test that is,IMO the poms have always been in control,or had that slight psychological edge.

I'm not disagreeing with you. That's pretty much exactly what I said. England have been CLEARLY on top for the large majority of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th tests. However, as I said, the margins weren't great at all, so I don't think there's any doubt that Australia could have been in front right now with just those two factors, a fit McGrath and deciding to bat first in the 2nd test. By the way, the team that has batted first has dominated each test. If Australia bats first in the 5th Test, who knows? I bet the curator will be pressured to prepare the flattest pitch in Ashes history.

Personally, I think the biggest difference between the teams which is totally killing us is Flintoff. I knew that our lack of a quality all rounder would end up hurting us badly one day and it's hurting us big time right now. You just can't go into a test match these days with only 4 frontline bowlers. It's just not good enough. England are using that extra bowler to great advantage and for most of this series our attack has looked EXTREMELY thin. We badly need to find a quality test match all rounder for the future!

[angel417]

Sportz,
I apologise if you thought I was having a go at you,because I certainly was not.It's good to converse with someone who knows their cricket,as you do.I went to high school with Thommo and Pascoe(real name Durtanovich,he changed it by deed poll)and played in the same team with them for 3 years.Needless to say we won the comp every one of those years.My point being,the fire and the will to get a batsman out or blast him out or just plain scare him out was paramount.You could be best mates off the field,but as soon as you put the pads on and took strike,they hated your guts!Lillee was the same.I have not seen that same passion in any of our strike bowlers since.Look at the way Vaughan has utilised the sub fielder rule to rest one of his quicks,why hasn't Ponting done same same?Look at the frustation coming out in Ponting with his huge "dummy spit"when Pratt ran him out.Look at the panic mode and media frenzy calling for changes to the team,aka Hussey for Hayden,Watson for Kaspa.
IMO it's the worst thing that could happen.Watson has not proven himself to be up to this level in the chances he has been given.Hussey is in good touch as evidenced by the one dayers and his average of 75 for Durham,but I just have this gut feeling that Matty Hayden is on the verge of a big score,and to change the team dramatically now would be handing the poms the urn on a platter.Our blokes have had 4 tests to have a look at reverse swing,Hussey and Watson have not.What they both fail?Flintoff and Pieterson would belt Watson out of the park.
If history is any indication,we are gone.33 tests at The Oval
results
Australia 6 wins
12 draws
15 losses
We have come this far with this squad so why lose faith in them now.They are all aware of what they are playing for,albeit some with their careers on the line,i would say let them go for it.It is the last throw of the dice.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

[mad]

Several thoughts,

What does IMO mean? - i've seen it before but am a bit slow.
Who would ya play in the next test assuming McGrath is fit, Tait or Kaspa?
For me i am leaning towards Tait, Kaspa is not in outstanding form and Tait caused a few problems when he got it right.

McGrath
Lee
Tait
Warne

Seems a bit more potent to me albeit a few runs may leak.
How about dropping Katich to take in another Bowler, let Warne fill the role of the all-rounder as i think he has scored more runs than Katich in this series to date. Perhaps then Kaspa to bowl when the ball is a bit older.

[Sportz]

Yes, I knew that our record at The Oval was shocking. Our record is as bad there as it is good at Lords. One point though. Recent Ashes tests played there have all been 'dead' test matches and you know how shocking Australia have gone in dead rubbers.

I'm not confident. Before the series, I assessed it this way. We would probably win at Lords and England would probably win at the Oval, and the series would be decided on the other 3 tests. I hope my assessment was wrong.

Personally, I thought Hussey should have been in the team right from the start, but he wasn't even in the squad. Likewise, I think Bracken should have been in the squad too, but not at Tait's expense. I would have picked both. With the squad that they have though, I think their biggest mistake was not picking Tait earlier when Gillespie was in such shocking form. We could all see how poorly Gillespie was bowling in the one dayers. For most of this series, we've basically had just 2 or 3 effective bowlers to England's 5.

I think our policy of continually picking the same players and never giving any new guys a go has been wrong. While dominating weaker teams in recent years, we should have begun to bring a few new players in. Not sure whether they should make many changes for the last game, but I think we definitely have to look at changes for the future.


Still reckon that 'Super Series' in a month's time is going to be totally embarassing. I can't believe that Centrebet actually had Australia slight favourites the last time I looked. That was before the 4th test. Perhaps they've come to their senses by now. I think we'll probably get thrashed.