Help With My Betting System

[journich]

Hi all,

Just joined this forum today.

I'm a computer programmer by trade and over the past week have developed a program that will: -

Download all info on races, race results, previous horse wins, etc from the tabonline site and store it in a local database.

The program will then scan throw all races for a given day, track, or a individual race, and attempt to rate all the runners by:-

Barrier draw, weight, form, previous starts, aap rating, odds, late tips, radio tab tip, etc.

Anyway to cut a long story short it get's it very right on some entire track's on a particular day (3-4 or more winners, and as many places in a 9 race meeting) but very badly on other's (sometimes only a few places for the complete event).

Obviously it's only early day's but I feel the program is showing some promise and I want to take it to the next step (need to add filtering, etc).

By the way I've got a partial analysis module working, so that you can put in various “virtual” bet's (win, place, quinella, and any 2 currently) and it will cycle through past results and tell you what you would have won/lost for a given day/track/race.

It's come a long way in a short time!!

I am looking for any help from anyone to: -





Assist with suggestions on what the program should be using to pick winners (needs to be scientific as “gut feels”, and other stuff like that is very hard for the computer to understand!).
Find data (freely available) for other things. For example I have the last 3 start's for each horse, but a complete history of all start's would be very useful.What about some form of jockey ratings? Is there a list available.
Give me some useful suggestions on what should be in the program.
Offer any other advice.
Data - I have all the data from tabonline, but if you have access to other stat's trainer info, jockey rankings, stuff more than 3 years old, I'd appreciate looking at it.
I'm not planning to sell this program, and I would be happy to give people copies of it free of charge if they contribute toward's it's development.

If there is enough interest I'll knock up a website and post the program on there for people to download. It's not ready for prime time yet as it does not have an interface at all and it's using my local database, etc.

You know I think it would be a great system if we all added our bit of wisdom on what we do to pick winners. We could all benefit from this.

Is there any interest from others looking to work together to create a “community” horse tipping system that works with our knowledge and has only the stuff in it we need?

As an aside, I work from home full time, but still need to pay a mortgage, so if you have any idea's on a niche racing product that needs to be developed please let me know. Again I'm not wanting to sell the horse tipping system (I'm not a good saleman) but some other useful program that “sell's itself” could be the way to go and would allow me to work on this stuff full time!

Please post here or drop me a line to journich@gmail.com. I'm happy to keep your information confidential if you prefer (e.g. Your secret formula's for picking winners, etc).

Cheers










Tim

[crash]

Welcome to the madhouse Journich. It's a pretty good bunch here.

There are quite a few here who will be able to [genuinely] help you with your program. Just watch out you don't get 'milked' for your own programing ideas [and see what was basically your effort being used for profitable gain by selling to the public it's selections by someone else]. In other words, don't be too free and easy passing on your programing efforts so far, as I'm sure your are going to have a heap of [private] em's.

Personally I'm an old fashioned punter and form student and until a computer program can filter in a horse's advantage who just had a 2kg.dump [effectively, a sudden 2kg. weight drop] before going into the starting barrier, or a thousand other incalculable things that can effect winning outcome, I'll stick to what I do and enjoy best 8-)

Good luck with all your efforts to turn computer digits into gold :-).

[journich]

Welcome to the madhouse Journich. It's a pretty good bunch here. Thanks crash :)

There are quite a few here who will be able to [genuinely] help you with your program. Just watch out you don't get 'milked' for your own programing ideas [and see what was basically your effort being used for profitable gain by selling to the public it's selections by someone else]. In other words, don't be too free and easy passing on your programing efforts so far, as I'm sure your are going to have a heap of [private] em's. Well I haven't exactly been swamped yet, yours is the only response to date!. Is no one interested is this?

I've got some other idea so I'll go off and work on those.

Thanks for the response.

Cheers

[marcus25]

Thanks crash :)

Well I haven't exactly been swamped yet, yours is the only response to date!. Is no one interested is this?

Cheers
I wish you luck with your projects, but I am not surprised by the lack of response.
If it only took programming skills to win at the races, quite a few of us would have retired in luxury long ago.
As I mentioned here before, I know someone who wouldn't know what to do with a computer if he fell over one, but he is winning constantly.
And he is not telling!!!
Regards

[journich]

I wish you luck with your projects, but I am not surprised by the lack of response.
If it only took programming skills to win at the races, quite a few of us would have retired in luxury long ago. Ummm really? That's why I was asking for help from others, because I don't know much about horse racing.

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious! ha ha just kidding.

I know I am on to something though picked first 3 winners at BR,SR, and NR today, still analysing the other results. Maybe it's just pure luck.

Cheers

[bluetown]

Yeah right,
another carrot an a stick ?

[KennyVictor]

Ummm really? That's why I was asking for help from others, because I don't know much about horse racing.

Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious! ha ha just kidding.

I know I am on to something though picked first 3 winners at BR,SR, and NR today, still analysing the other results. Maybe it's just pure luck.

Cheers

Mate, you don't need to know much about horse racing IMHO. I started doing what you're doing about 18 months ago and finished my first year's punting with 9% POT over about a thousand bets. There is no substitute for having a lot of data. I collect any and all data I can get my hands on if it's free. I find my results stabilise after about 5 years races have gone through but my method is rating each race and each horse using weights and margins (not sure if it's the same as you're trying to do). Don't let anyone tell you it doesn't work, cause it does.

KV

[journich]

Mate, you don't need to know much about horse racing IMHO. I started doing what you're doing about 18 months ago and finished my first year's punting with 9% POT over about a thousand bets. There is no substitute for having a lot of data. I collect any and all data I can get my hands on if it's free. I find my results stabilise after about 5 years races have gone through but my method is rating each race and each horse using weights and margins (not sure if it's the same as you're trying to do). Don't let anyone tell you it doesn't work, cause it does.

KV Thanks for your reply, I'll keep plodding on and see what I can come up with!

If you could share any sources of useful free stat's that can be downloaded, I'd appreciate it... Post here or sent to journich@gmail.com. (journich@gmail.com) I've taken a look at the paid services, but they really do seem quite expensive. Obviously I know of tabonline, but there are bound to be others I havent found yet.

By the way when you say POTS - What does this stand for? I presume it's Nett profit but just curious as to what it stands for.

Cheers

[journich]

Yeah right,
another carrot an a stick ? Sorry, I don't follow?

[bluetown]

Do you have a phone number ?
if so,
email me: blutownroks@shinyfeet.com (blutownroks@happyfeet.com)
if you are serious on this project you posted.

[journich]

Do you have a phone number ?
if so,
email me: blutownroks@shinyfeet.com (blutownroks@happyfeet.com)
if you are serious on this project you posted.
email sent.

[KennyVictor]

Thanks for your reply, I'll keep plodding on and see what I can come up with!

If you could share any sources of useful free stat's that can be downloaded, I'd appreciate it... Post here or sent to journich@gmail.com. (journich@gmail.com) I've taken a look at the paid services, but they really do seem quite expensive. Obviously I know of tabonline, but there are bound to be others I havent found yet.

By the way when you say POTS - What does this stand for? I presume it's Nett profit but just curious as to what it stands for.

Cheers

Profit on turnover. I'm probably using it wrong but it means (to me) that every hundred dollars I bet I get 109 back.

I started with waturf.org.au You can get past results on WA races going way back in a csv format. West aussie racing suited me. It wasn't corrupted by too many "outside" horses with form that I didn't have coming in and winning races. And not many heavy tracks which can throw a spanner in the works. Since then I've gone on to NSW races which you can get results for from racingnsw, also in csv format.

A word of warning, I don't know about results you pay for but there are mistakes in a lot of the free stuff I've downloaded from various places. I spend more time fixing data than I do working out ratings.

Best of luck,

KV

[journich]

Profit on turnover. I'm probably using it wrong but it means (to me) that every hundred dollars I bet I get 109 back.

I started with waturf.org.au You can get past results on WA races going way back in a csv format. West aussie racing suited me. It wasn't corrupted by too many "outside" horses with form that I didn't have coming in and winning races. And not many heavy tracks which can throw a spanner in the works. Since then I've gone on to NSW races which you can get results for from racingnsw, also in csv format.

A word of warning, I don't know about results you pay for but there are mistakes in a lot of the free stuff I've downloaded from various places. I spend more time fixing data than I do working out ratings.

Best of luck,

KV Thanks for your help, and advice much appreciated.

Cheers




Tim

[Bhagwan]

POT= Profit on Turnover

[marcus25]

Ummm really?
Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious! ha ha just kidding.

Cheers
Hi!
My irony must have been too subtle?
Why would anyone give me, you, or anyone else their secrets re. racing, if it works?

[journich]

Hi!
My irony must have been too subtle?
Why would anyone give me, you, or anyone else their secrets re. racing, if it works? If you call a sledgehammer subtle, then yes it was. There are heaps of reasons why people might give some secrets out.

Case in point. I contribute towards open source software development where I develop and give away a program for free. Why? I like programming and helping people. Technically it costing me to do this since I am not working on paid work to do it. Perhaps other people in this industry may do the same thing. Maybe not.

Who knows accumulating all our little tips and having the ability to analyse the information might collectively put us all in a better position than if we just kept our little secret to ourself.

[bluetown]

marcus,
all things being mutual, welcome back !

If the architecture of a program is done in a certain way, no secrets are lost !
Just because we all get dealt the same deck of cards, does not mean we all have Aces. (Not countng the Joker/Wild card)

Meaning, if a race is is a race, then it's a race. Over all it's an object.
How that object is percieved may have many variations.
Then it's how one acts onto the object according to the allowable controls of the variations, pertaining to the object.
Default variable = 0 !

[Chrome Prince]

Yes, a program or database is a tool like any other tradesman's tool.

Give a hammer to a chippy and you have a beautiful two-storey house, give it to an accountant, and you have a sore thumb and some bent nails :D

[bluetown]

Yes CP
But both accountant and chippy had to work from the architects design in the first place.
The better of the architect's design, wins the contract.

[blocka]

journich,I use expertform.com for collecting my data. They have race results and horse history with all the horses starts.Don't be put off that some days you get lots of winners and some days none. It happens.Good luck with it.

[journich]

journich,I use expertform.com for collecting my data. They have race results and horse history with all the horses starts.Don't be put off that some days you get lots of winners and some days none. It happens.Good luck with it. Excellent, thanks for your help, the site looks very useful. Cheers

[pardon me]

hi journich
i,m not sure if what i do is suitable but i bet using a formula based on odds at jump time.the problem i have is that i need to be in front of the screen at all times to effect the bets, this can be monotonus and tiring.
i have approx 2000 bets p/mth and have a pot of around5% month on month.
Given this scenario does your programming provide for software that could do this function and place the bets given certain parameters. i use qld tab site to do this currently. given the tight margins i use this would not be suitable for general publication as the odds would seriously diminish even if bets sizes were to go up 4 fold due to many small pool sizes in many races in which i bet.
anyway let me know if u think your offering could do the above.
good luck

[weaver00]

You can download daily racing data free from aapracingandsports.com in csv format, it's what they use for their neural algorithms. Also you can get some very good jockey stats from racenet.com.au

Try these for other data:

tabform.thewest.com.au/
expertform.com
australianracing.com

CheersThe Weaver

[Tubby]

Journich,

Your idea is an interesting one and if I had the programming skills I would probably be trying to do it myself.

I use lots of sources of data, the only one of which I pay for is the downloadable sportsman (specialised form guide).

I find expertform the best of the rest but also use the QTAB (tabonline.com.auwebsite) , the aapracing website and a set of par times for various tracks (can't remember the address but will email you).

As far as variables go, I spent a bit of time retrospectively assessing data (about 18months worth) and the ones that seemed to be useful to me were, in no particular order:
1. first 4 in the betting
2. first 4 in order of average winnings
3. proven at distance
4. Placed in first four in last 2 starts
5. Place percentage >60% (this has been mentioned elsewhere in this forum).

I rely on horses placing to make a profit and have been going along steadily (albeit slowly) for about 7 months.

[siam]

my method is rating each race and each horse using weights and margins
KVHi KennyVictor,
I use an access database and rate horses performances using weights and margins. I am very happy with my ratings for horses older than 3, but sometimes I get ratings wrong for 3 year olds and 2 year olds. Would you (or any other poster) like to compare ratings? A second opinion could be very useful.

Regards,
siam

[journich]

hi journich
i,m not sure if what i do is suitable but i bet using a formula based on odds at jump time.the problem i have is that i need to be in front of the screen at all times to effect the bets, this can be monotonus and tiring.
i have approx 2000 bets p/mth and have a pot of around5% month on month.
Given this scenario does your programming provide for software that could do this function and place the bets given certain parameters. i use qld tab site to do this currently. given the tight margins i use this would not be suitable for general publication as the odds would seriously diminish even if bets sizes were to go up 4 fold due to many small pool sizes in many races in which i bet.
anyway let me know if u think your offering could do the above.
good luck
Hi there,

At this stage I have no automatic bet facility in the system, but I suspect it could be added in the future.

Cheers



Tim

[KennyVictor]

Hi KennyVictor,
I use an access database and rate horses performances using weights and margins. I am very happy with my ratings for horses older than 3, but sometimes I get ratings wrong for 3 year olds and 2 year olds. Would you (or any other poster) like to compare ratings? A second opinion could be very useful.

Regards,
siam

Are you allowing for the improvement of young horses due to getting older. Probably not very important if they are only a fortnight between races but a two year old improves something like 10Kg in it's first year and a 3Yo maybe 6 or 7 over the year (figures from an old Don Scott book I have). Fairly important if a horse has had a 6 month spell.

KV

[pardon me]

Hi there,

At this stage I have no automatic bet facility in the system, but I suspect it could be added in the future.

Cheers



Tim
thanks for the feed back it would be possible for sure although even after close time i still get some wild fluctations.
let me know if u go down this track and i could give u what i do in exchange once we established that the program was able to do the job
pardon me

[KennyVictor]

hi journich
i,m not sure if what i do is suitable but i bet using a formula based on odds at jump time.the problem i have is that i need to be in front of the screen at all times to effect the bets, this can be monotonus and tiring.
i have approx 2000 bets p/mth and have a pot of around5% month on month.
Given this scenario does your programming provide for software that could do this function and place the bets given certain parameters. i use qld tab site to do this currently. given the tight margins i use this would not be suitable for general publication as the odds would seriously diminish even if bets sizes were to go up 4 fold due to many small pool sizes in many races in which i bet.
anyway let me know if u think your offering could do the above.
good luck

Is post #14 on the thread below what you're after?
http://forums.ozmium.com.au/showthread.php?t=10740
KV

[siam]

Are you allowing for the improvement of young horses due to getting older. Probably not very important if they are only a fortnight between races but a two year old improves something like 10Kg in it's first year and a 3Yo maybe 6 or 7 over the year (figures from an old Don Scott book I have). Fairly important if a horse has had a 6 month spell.

KVHi KV,
I have factored in the WFA table to my ratings. An example of the problem I have, will be when the new 2-y-o season starts. The 2-y-o's have no history so I have trouble determining what rating to give initially. Similarly, in most midweek meetings the 3-y-o's have limited history and I find it difficult to rate them.

[bluetown]

Interesting reading so far.

But the way I see it, everyone has a "system" wanted to be developed.
So there are many "systems" and many ideas,and If I can relate in contrast to a poker game, there are 2 ways I know how to deal a deck, as an "object".
1 "object" deck of cards is with 52 cards ( Full Deck)
2 "object" deck of cards is 32 cards ( 7's up to Ace)
But both method of play can still have a full house on Aces and Queens for example.
It's how one play's the game.

So what has this got to do with a horse race program ?
It's relatively the same in principle.
1 wants to use form
2 wants markets and/or form.

At the end of the day it has to come down to a factor when selections are obtained either from form, then bet according to price available ?


Both require data feed. ( form data feed and market price data feed )
The computerable data feed, where is it's most stable "raw source" going to come from to compute a method of selections, and be commonly agreed upon ?

And why ?

[KennyVictor]

Hi KV,
I have factored in the WFA table to my ratings. An example of the problem I have, will be when the new 2-y-o season starts. The 2-y-o's have no history so I have trouble determining what rating to give initially. Similarly, in most midweek meetings the 3-y-o's have limited history and I find it difficult to rate them.

You can't achieve the impossible. If a horse hasn't raced before, as far as I'm concerned it's an unknown quantity. I don't take any notice of trials as they don't neccessarily reflect a horse's true form. I have a "what if" program which tells me how much I would have won or lost if I'd done whatever. I use it to see what my return would be if I allowed no runners without form, then I'll do a run to see what happens if I allow one new runner in a race, etc. In my old system I allow up to 50% of the field to be new runners. Slightly less PTO but compensated by the increased number of bets. 50% (for me) was a nice cut off point. Betting Quinellas I don't allow any races where there is an untried runner - I find that works better for me.
Once a horse has run it has form in my book, some may improve or get worse greatly at the second run but then many other horses aren't particularly reliable at the best of times either. Again, my what if program tells me my PTO is better if I make it a rule that every horse has to have had 6 runs but that cuts the bets down so much that the overall profit is diminished.
Just use common sense, work with what you've got and don't cry over races you can't rate, there's always another one tomorrow.

KV

[tailwag]

Hi KennyVictor,
I use an access database and rate horses performances using weights and margins. I am very happy with my ratings for horses older than 3, but sometimes I get ratings wrong for 3 year olds and 2 year olds. Would you (or any other poster) like to compare ratings? A second opinion could be very useful.

Regards,
siamHello Siam, how many records do you have in an Access database and does it go slowly when doing searches on queries?

Tailwag

[pardon me]

Is post #14 on the thread below what you're after?
http://forums.ozmium.com.au/showthread.php?t=10740
KV
hi KennyVictor
thank u for the thread, it is not what i need unfortunately.
u see my way of betting is based on tab prices at jump time,certain conditions need to be met and i do not know which horse/dog i will be betting on till secs before jump so i have to sit here in front of the screen for each race , make the brief calculations then place the bet as late as i possibly can to avoid/minimise wild fluctatuions in the prices. ideally what i need is software that does all this for me,it just contains the % and parameters , if that is possible.Then i could set it up, go out for the day , come home and verify results and bets.
today is a case in point, it was a real beauty, one of my best days ever in terms of strike rate but it was along day with 177 bets . thats why im on this site at midnight, but i hate to miss the winning opportunities so i have to persist manually for the time being i guess.
thanks again

[syllabus23]

persisting manually will send you blind........

[KennyVictor]

Hi Pardon me,
My goal is a bit like yours, I hope to have a program where I can set it up in the morning and let it run and make bets for me.
I can see a way I can achieve this but it is going to take at least a couple of months till I'm there (started learning Java yesterday as a possible way to do it). If I have any success I will make it known on this site.

Cheers,

KV

[Shaun]

I am not sure if this program would suit anyones needs but i found it a long time ago but have never realy looked in to it http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.php
this program is free it will create scrips to automate anything....you could use it in conjuction with excel create the paramaters you need in excel and at the right time you could execute your script to place the bet

[bluetown]

I am not sure if this program would suit anyones needs but i found it a long time ago but have never realy looked in to it http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.php
this program is free it will create scrips to automate anything....you could use it in conjuction with excel create the paramaters you need in excel and at the right time you could execute your script to place the bet
Shaun,
it's sems like a good start and it has a forum. The problem with many forums on most devlopment software, is the experts are not "Horse Racing" literate.
Many good programmers no doupt in their respected field.
Try asking on their forum, " I want to develop a horse racing program and I want it to get data from here and go to there, rada rada."
They don't seem to understand that once the race starts, it'a all over.
They don't understand "late Scratchings"
They don't understand,
So how on earth does a punter with an idea ask, "how do get this to happen"?
and it's not about some cad program, paint-shop-pro, web design, etc etc ?

[bluetown]

It seems to me no one wants to answer the obvious and logical

HOW DOES A PUNTER WITH THE WINNING EDGE ASK IN A PROGRAM FORUM,
"HOW CAN I MAKE *my* OWN HORSE RACING PROGRAM AND NOT BE IGNORED OR STEALTHED OF THE IDEA !?

[KennyVictor]

Bluetown,

The only ways I can see are:
A: Learn to program yourself.
B: Get together with someone who programs that you can trust and build it together.
C: Pay squillions to a reputable maker of custom computer programs safe in the knowledge that they will be dweebs and very unlikely to be interested in horse racing for profit.

Programmers often have 3 figure IQs and can get their head around something like racing if you can explain what you want clearly. I've written custom computer programs for people on many and varied obscure things in the past. I learn enough about what they want in order to write the program, make sure they are happy with the result then take my money and promptly forget about it.
If you wanted Partypooper's "One at the bottom of the list if it has a C or D next to it approach you'd probably get out of it for 10 grand. :-)

KV

[bluetown]

Option B then Option A, but specific to the program in question.
50 % solved.

Next, ( 25 %)
Teach A to do B
because A ( punter) taught B (progarmmer) basic fundamentals on defining and Activating an, "Edge" not possible without PC.


Next ( 12.5%)
Ethics

Next ( 6.25%)
It may not work to expectations !

6.25 % it might.

100 % if it does.
---------------------

Next,

[tailwag]

Bluetown,

The only ways I can see are:
B: Get together with someone who programs that you can trust and build it together.

KV
Okay, so in keeping with that sentiment, is there anyone on this list that lives near Sydney, that would like to work on a unique new concept I have developed in theory, but lack the skills in DB design to make happen.

Tailwag.

[KennyVictor]

Option B then Option A, but specific to the program in question.
50 % solved.
Next, ( 25 %)
Teach A to do B
because A ( punter) taught B (progarmmer) basic fundamentals on defining and Activating an, "Edge" not possible without PC.
Next ( 12.5%)
Ethics
Next ( 6.25%)
It may not work to expectations !
6.25 % it might.
100 % if it does.
---------------------
Next,

Bluetown,
The rest of us humans try to write in sentences. We find it takes a little longer but actually conveys some (hopefully) worthwhile information.

KV

[KennyVictor]

Okay, so in keeping with that sentiment, is there anyone on this list that lives near Sydney, that would like to work on a unique new concept I have developed in theory, but lack the skills in DB design to make happen.

Tailwag.

I live a long way from Sydney and you can trust me as far as you can throw me but I'm a bit busy with 15 projects of my own. :-)

KV

[tailwag]

I live a long way from Sydney and you can trust me as far as you can throw me but I'm a bit busy with 15 projects of my own. :-)

KV
Hehehe I like it, btw, how much do you weigh :-)

Seriously, I find it very strange that Sydney does not boast at least one accomplished Access DB programmer that is intensely interested in the racing industry and more specifically in designing a system that may yield more than he/she currently reaps from the game.

Tailwag

[pebbles]

Try this place kennyVictor


http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/default.asp

would cost you 300/500US it's simple programming.

pebbles

[KennyVictor]

Try this place kennyVictor


http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/default.asp

would cost you 300/500US it's simple programming.

pebbles

My word you are a humourless fellow Pebbles. I was having a little laugh at my own expense. You see I am a programmer, I know how much these jobs cost and I was pretending to be an overcharging charlatan. See my other answer involving how far I can be thrown. This doesn't really equate my level of trust with my weight and tailwag's strength and or knowledge of ancient catapults. It's more humour, again at my own expense.
Now the humour in this answer may again pass over your head but so that my efforts are not completely lost I'm afraid I have to inform you it's at your expense this time.

KV

[marcus25]

Seriously, I find it very strange that Sydney does not boast at least one accomplished Access DB programmer that is intensely interested in the racing industry and more specifically in designing a system that may yield more than he/she currently reaps from the game.

Tailwag
Hi Tailwag!
The fact that you are communicating here with us proves that there is no need for you and a programmer to be in the same town, hey! not even on the same continent, (would help though if in the same universe, unlike some).
As a matter of fact we do prefer written instruction.
Saying that, I am not offering my services either, just too busy.
As to programmers not understanding horseracing, that is just utter crap.
Where I work we write programmes for many different clients, requiering solutions to problems I did not even knew existed and we do not know a thing about their business. Computers work with data
not opinions (although if you include let's say, a memo field in the horses record, I can get the info out and add an agreed numerical value to your opinion), so, as long there is data we can use it and write programmes.
Hope your first selection wins 52.78% of the time.
Cheers

[tailwag]

This doesn't really equate my level of trust with my weight and tailwag's strength and or knowledge of ancient catapults.
KV
How did you know I was a catapult enthusiast :-)
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/Catapults.htm

Tailwag

[tailwag]

Hi Tailwag!
The fact that you are communicating here with us proves that there is no need for you and a programmer to be in the same town, hey! not even on the same continent, (would help though if in the same universe, unlike some).

I accept that, but have a severe case of paranoia, you see it just might be that I have the Holy Grail of systems, and don't want every bugger to have it, if it is spread around it would be useless by definition.

Therein lies the problem, once a system becomes popular, it becomes obsolete. Yes you may quote me on that :-)

Thanks for the time and energy you took to reply, I appreciate it, regardless of your location :-)

Tailwag

[marcus25]

"have a severe case of paranoia"



Sometimes paranoia can actually be healthy!

I am in Melbourne by the way .
One thing puzzels me but? Why would you trust someone face to face and not via the net? keeping in mind, that a dishonest human being is just that, he will make no allowances for being there in person or not?

[pebbles]

Going back to the suggestion of hiring a programmer thru that site and the aspect of distrust and dishonesty

When you hire these people you are under a contract and so are they. They cannot divulge the contents of your program to anyone. You generally do not have to pay until the contract is fulfilled and you have your program right. If a programmer was to release information regarding your particular computer program/system, he is infringing your intellectual copyrights. Something people should be familiar with in this forum. If he did that then there are actions you can take.

Programmers do not necessarily need to be 'Horse Racing Literate they are programmers, it's up to you to tell them what you want your program to do and they will write it for you. A little bit of back and forth and you end up with a result.

pebbles

[Debug]

One of the problems with writing programs for punters is that their ideas have not always been fully researched so when it is found that the program does not produce the results they expect they want the programmer to make modifications. After they find the modifications are not doing the trick they then want further modifications. And on it goes. Of course this is coming out of the punters pocket.

I think the suggestion that a punter team up with a programmer for mutual benefit is a good idea. The trick is finding the punter with a properly researched system and a programmer willing to put in the time.

The only other alternative is for the punter to learn to program.

[Shaun]

Come on guys...what sort of program are you wanting...as i have said before i can duplicate most programs in excel....if you don't know anything about excel it is not hard to use....what i can't duplicate i am sure i can find a work around for it.

[siam]

Hello Siam, how many records do you have in an Access database and does it go slowly when doing searches on queries?

TailwagHi tailwag,
My access database has 5 tables, the main table has about 80,000 records (about 4 years of results). I have no problem with searches or queries, they return in a flash. Some of my screens have access VB programs running multiple queries and there's no problem at all with response time.

[pebbles]

My word you are a humourless fellow Pebbles.
yep ok...fair point, but I do have a very good sense of humour at times...

I'll try and lighten up a little !

pebbles...

[tailwag]

Hi tailwag,
My access database has 5 tables, the main table has about 80,000 records (about 4 years of results). I have no problem with searches or queries, they return in a flash. Some of my screens have access VB programs running multiple queries and there's no problem at all with response time.
Thanks for that info, that is good to know. I have started collecting data and placing into a database of my own design (very basic at this stage), and it is growing rapidly, I achieved 27,811 records in one month. So naturally I am worried that it will grow too fast and exceed my computers ability to process data quickly.

If I can also address a few other points of other posters in this one reply. The face to face issue for me is simply because of this. I am a programmer of different languages, actually I am a fairly good ColdFusion programmer which in the scheme of things is way above simple DB programming (some may argue but not many).

Whilst I took 6 years to come up to speed with CF it did nothing for me in respect of good DB design. So I am no dummy with a keyboard but smart enough to know that a brilliant DB design will take several years part-time to learn or a good few months full time.

So, I believe I have something unique in terms of a system, and I naturally want to protect that, but the reason for the face-to-face, is so that I can fast track my learning. I have always thought that watching others is a better way to learn than reading it from a book.

So, the honesty issue aside, its more to say next year that I fully understand every aspect of my system, and will not have to reply on someone else to make even the smallest modification. I have held clients to ransom for years with web site changes (before the advent of CMS's), with simple things like a price change for example. I don't want that to happen to me.

Finally the data I have that is unique, is not along the traditional lines, i.e. has very little if no bearing on the result of previous races, jockeys, trainers, race conditions or any other factor except one. That factor without going into it too deeply (a free taste here to drag someone out of lurk mode), comes from the very essence of what makes the world go round :-)

Think about it, the race industry is no different than any other industry, you have your good guys, your bad guys, your best and worst and the greater middle, you have records, ingredients and so forth and so on. You have many things that seem like they are unique to different industries, but the one universal thing that is at the heart of every industry, the heart of ever endeavour by mankind itself, is the thing that I have yet to see in any system.

Well, I can't give you any more clues, that would be telling, but the astute ones amongst you should have worked out by now that the core ingredient is both the question and the answer. Or to put it a little clearer, it is both the punishment and the reward.

If nothing else from all the other programming I ever learned, the kiss principle does work and will always work best, every time!!! So, whilst searching for a vast number of factors and co-factors that may or may not influence the outcome of a race, there is none that stands shoulder to shoulder with the KING of them all. That is what I am going to build my system around, the KING of data, the core of, or the essence of the very game itself. With that I hope that someone will take the challenge and e-mail me privately at tailwag@hotmail.com (tailwag@hotmail.com) Please remember you must live in or near Sydney and be prepared to travel to my offices.

Thanks for you time and sorry for the length of the reply.

Tailwag