Fine Cotton

[boxhead]

Can anybody remember the name of the ring in? Quiz for the missus.
Thanks

[Raw Instinct]

Bold Personality

[maverick1993]

fantastic story isn't it..big names like mark Read and Waterhouse involved..
now we have micro chips...but in this day and age of techtronics this could be open to scandall as well..

[saratoga samchaz]

Didn't they call it the FINE COTTON RING? I read about it a couple of weeks ago. Isn't it funny how something so well known to you guys is completely new and novel to me here in America? I think it involved Gai's dad TJ Smith right? Here's another thing I've been meaning to ask. Here in America, as in OZ I'm sure, certain trainers are perceived in many different personas. I.E. D. Wayne Lukas was always thought to ruin young horses by running em too hard and too much too early, and when a tragedy on the track occurred, people were quick to blame. Or Bob Baffert being a party guy who gets to the barn at 9 am (gotta love that) or certain guys being thought of as cheaters (Scott Lake here at Del Park and Juan Serey in NY and NJ who just got back from a 3 year suspension- I know his nephew real well- Pablo told me one time in his deep Chilean accent "My Oncool has improooved dis 4 horse, bet him." How did he do it, Pablo?
"Drugs." funny as hell- we were all laughing.)


Being new to Aussie, what are the images and personalities of some of the trainers there? Are Gai and her husband cheats, is Mayfield-Smith some kind of adventurer guy who is very concerned aboout his horses welfare, and is Hawkes a pure businessman with a fierce determination to win? These are the images I have gotten, except for Gai because I haven't seen her win that much. And how about some of the jocks, like Nikolic(heard he's wild)? It's just nice to put a human face on it, especially if I can relate to it. Researching the websites of these doesn't tell the real story. Thanks

[saratoga samchaz]

Misunderstood the ? Boxman. Do they have tatoos on their lips over there or what is used for ID? Not that it would be hard to copy the ID.

[Raw Instinct]

I am of the opinion and I amnot sure if I am off the mark here but I think Gai tends to ruin horses at a young age by running them into the ground. I personally try to steer away from backing her horses they are usually short which isn't my go and I don't like betting in sydney outside of carnival time anyway so it doesn't hurt me to much anyway.


Mayfield Smith for mine tries to look after his horses will avoind bog tracks with most of them unless he has a horse which is truly looking for it, he is an exceptional trainer just doesn't seem to get the highest quality horses these days.

Hawkes he is a good trainer but the quantity of runners he has makes it very hard to follow him alot of the horses who do win for him especially in sydney are short for 2 reasons normally, one because he trains them and two Beadman is riding them not a good combo for value.


Freedman is a great trainer with the best facilites in Australia that Rye complex just has done amazing things for him especially the staying ranks but he does strike me as a bit on a whinger at times maybe I am just taking the bloke the wrong or maybe I have been listening to his brother Richard for to long.

Danny O'Brien, John O'Shea, Guy Walter, Shawn Dwyer and Peter Moody are guys with smaller stables who usually are good to follow.

[Rudolph]

Mayfield Smith for mine tries to look after his horses will avoind bog tracks with most of them unless he has a horse which is truly looking for it, he is an exceptional trainer just doesn't seem to get the highest quality horses these days.



I rate Mayfield-Smith as one of the best going round. I agree, he doesn't seem to be getting group 1 horses, Rubitano was his last real star.

Corstens is one that has always had question marks over his head for a long time, repeat offender.

[bl4dez]

i had a $85 winner from him 2 weeks ago
monte power at kembla grange
great trainer Mayfield-Smith
follow monte all day that day

[saratoga samchaz]

Excellent, excellant info guys! Thanks much! I have been wanting to ask these questions for a while now, but kinda wanted to form an unbiased opinion on everyone concerned (well, except for propun. and other internet articles about OZ horse racing, as well as a small and very diverse group of mates who understand how great your racing is-even mid-week- compared to US NIGHT RACING)

I really like trainers who have small stables but have high % with their runners (like Hawkes). Keep info like this coming. It makes me look like a genius when the stuff works out! How the hell do you know that? is what my buddies all say when I spout out stuff like "that toppy isn't ready. Bet on the roughie. That Barrier Trial for the toppy was bad and Gai is in court today so her bookmaker hubby is gonna put the saddle on a little loose. Mayfield-Smith needs to fund his trips to the outback and African bush."

I'm going to try to make a comparison to each trainer you describe to one of ours, therefore helping you get a grasp on all the innuendos surrounding our game. Second nature stuff to regulars is like an epiphany to us newbies and if anyone is already such a specialist in US racing over there, disregard my opininons and gjive me the winners in these races. How much does everyone bet US and what tracks do you guys like? Thansk again.

[saratoga samchaz]

Hey RAw, What's a whinger (like an eccentric kinda guy)? And what does his bro say about him and what does Richard Freedman do and why the bad blood between them?
LONG POST BELOW-Skip to bottom of post for summary
I'll make my first HEMISPHERE TRAINER SIMILARITIES (from now on known as HTS) comparison here: GAI WATERHOUSE - the often accused but usually aquitted sheila trainer comes from horse racing royalty and is trying to make her legendary daddy proud and to add to his legacy (IMO). I don't know what TJ's style was, but I know he was the man. Gai's style of ruining the young runners in pursuit of a fast buck at any cost and in disregard for the horse's welfare is akin to our Hall of Fame trainer -- D. WAYNE LUKAS.

D.WAYNE would often have tremendous two and three year old's in the late '80's and most of the 1990's. These expensive monsters (Winning Colors-only 3rd filly in history to win Kentucky Derby) were owned by the late EUGENE KLEIN(owner of the NFL's San Diego Chargers whose silks were the lightning bolt of the team) until his passing in 1990 or 91 when BOB and BEVERLY LEWISbecame the primary(CHARISMATIC-winner of Kentucky Derby and Preakness and game 2nd or 3rd in the Belmont stakes after being injured in the race and indelibly etching both a horrible and compassionate picture in my mind-(rider Chris Antley had been in and out of trouble with drugs and alcohol abuse as well as majorly struggling with depression and keeping the weight down when his comeback to riding paid off when he got this mount. After the Belmont finish, he quickly jumped off CHARISMATIC and wiith his eyes filled with tears and with disregard for his own safety, ANT held up CHARISMATIC's seriously injured front leg until help came, effectively saving the horse's life and saving the LEWIS' lots of money. Six months later, ANT was found dead in his apartment in Cali. in what is thought to be a murder by some young punk who lived with Ant over a drug debt. Chris had voiced his fear to fellow jock, Gary Stevens who implored the police to focus on the case but in a cover up, deemed ANT's death an accident as the result of falling, hitting his head, and dying from blunt force trauma! Steven's eventually had to hush up, presumably because of threats and no arrests werer ever made. Such a pity for another jockey who Apprenticed here at good old DELAWARE PARK and became a top notch rider.). Aropund the same time William T. Young's OVERBROOK FARMS also came into the picture with D WAYNE LUKAS owning such standouts as TIMBER COUNTRY-broke down in either Preakness or Belmont and STORM CAT).

After huge success and earning lots of detractors and fans during the 90's, the LEWIS' moved most of their big guns at the time to the up and coming California trainer, BOB BAFFERT(SILVER CHARM and 2005's WHATASONG {$1.9 Million 2yo c. by top notch newbie sire SONGANDAPRAYER} who broke down in a normal morning gallop at DelMar in mid August while training in anticipation of the Breeder's Cup Juvenile and one of the future book favorites for the 2006 Kentucky Derby and was sadly euthanized.

LUKAS began his decent from top trainer in the US to one with not much of a stable around Y2K, when PADUA STABLES became his most active owner. PADUA spent millions of dollars on the best horse flesh available but have never won any real big ones since becoming D. Wayne's bread and butter. PADUA got fed up and moved on to BAFFERT and others.


HTS SUMMARY
D. WAYNE LUKAS and GAI WATERHOUSE are HTS due to the widely held opinion that they can ruin young and expensive horses, are controversial, non-chalant about accusations, and seem to enjoy the high profile attention they receive with their glory days behind them. Both will still win big races, but it ain't ever gonna be the same (more for LUKAS than Gai). They also both had multi-millionare owners leading to G.1 winners in abundance. Perhaps the biggest HTS for D. WAYNE WATERHOUSE and GAI LUKAS can be summed up in one word-------------- COCKY!

[saratoga samchaz]

My post below is quite long so skip to the bottom if you would just like a summary. There is some interesting info in it for the curious and I will now put my HTS on it's own thread for those who think I'm an ass.

[Raw Instinct]

By whinger I mean there was a case earlier this year when Freedman was saying that there were a couple of smaller trainer in melbourne who were getting away with using drugs or something along those lines I have a bad memory. it wasn't just Freedman, Hawkes was making the accusations along with someone else. It obviously upset a few guys Peter Moody, Tony Noonan & Mick Price were the main ones who kicked back, as a result I think Noonan had a horse or 2 that may have returned a high TCO2 level but not much happened out of it. I get the feeling that the bigger trainers in Melbourne might have just been getting a bit upset over how competitive it is down there.

Richard Freedman is out there and always has an opinion but alot of the times I agree with what he is saying he just isn't all that diplomatic the way he goes about saying it.

Hope this helps out a bit.

[saratoga samchaz]

Richard trains too I suppose? or does he work with Lee? How does he do if he is on his own? Now that I think about it, I have seen a different initial and almost gotten thrown off. It also happened with Mayfield-Smith I think. Does he have a brother also? Gossipers the like, all those big trainers. Just mad they aren't winning em all, huh!

[Raw Instinct]

Brian Mayfield Smith is in Melbourne and Noel Mayfield Smith is in Sydney as far as I know they are brothers. Richard has nothig to do with training horses once upon a time he was part of the Freedman brothers but these dyas he does radio shows paper articles and a TV show on sky channel called Racing Retro where they basically go over all the races from the previous Saturday that meant anything.


there is also a father son combo from Queensland that are als worth following Bruce and Jason McLachlan.

[saratoga samchaz]

How about the Rallingers(not right but I can't remember their name exactly). Brothers are high % riders and father? is a trainer. They only ride once in a whhile it seems or at tracks we don;t carry

[Shaun]

How about that husband and wife team from the country she trains he rides Leanne and Wayne Aspross....now when they team up in a race you know you are on a good thing

[saratoga samchaz]

What's their deal Shaun? What is their home track?

[Mark]

Another brother, Laurie Mayfield-Smith trains in Brisbane, I think, or Gold Coast.

[w924]

HI there Mav,
i asume you are referring to Hayden Haitana's book? A good read alright..was there another good book written about that ring in?

yes Bold Personality was definitely the ring in horse..and while Im at it, although not related, the horse of Mark Read's and the subject of a big betting plunge was Getting Closer..the name escaped me until now..
Cheers

[gazman]

there was another ring in ,,it must have been in the late 60s early 70s in casterton (vic) funny thing is that i was at the races there that day as a very young boy and can sort of remember some thing going on as people were freaking out .i'm pretty sure the bookies paid out but someone noticed boot polish on the winners stall when the horse left the yard...does any one have any more info on this(this will test you sportz) cheers ......gaz....

[Raw Instinct]

Funnily enough Gaz I had one of my work mates telling me about that same horse you are talking about a couple of weeks ago but he couldn't remember the name of the horse just said it was at a country meeting and was pretty sure it was Casterton. To long ago for me to know anything about it I am only 28 he however is 45 just doesn't follow racing that much anymore didn't mind a bit of a punt back then with his old man.

[gazman]

i did a bit of research and found this out........
The Royal School ring-in
While the Fine Cotton affair was low-tech, the Royal School scandal at Casterton, western Victoria, in May 1972, was meticulously planned. Owner Rick Renzella, a former used-car salesman, bought the gelding for $350 with a view to a ring-in. The main problem was that the horse that ran in his place at Casterton won with ridiculous ease. An inquiry revealed the winner to be Regal Vista, who had won the 1970 Liston Stakes at Caulfield. Renzella was jailed for two years.
i rang my uncle up and he cant remember that much but his mate that we went with had 50ew at 66to1 and that was a lot of cash back then and i do recall them getting pissed as that night
cheers.gaz.......

[w924]

Hi Gazman, yes that all sounds about right to me..before my time, but I did work with a former jumps jockey who knew Renzella rather well. He told us much about that ring in...among other tales..most of which I have forgotten, but I remember the story being retold with fervour during smokos and after work piss ups..the only job I ever had where you could help yourself to a beer as soon as you began work at 8 am. and at any time during the day. (not that i did). we had two ex jockeys and a racehorse woner in our workgroup and we had a lot of laughs with various stories of pulling horses, betting plunges etc. work in the timber yard only filled the gaps between races...lol