OZmium Sports Betting and Horse Racing Forums - Makybe Diva WILL win the Melbourne Cup

Sportz

6th October 2005, 09:31 AM

Okay, I'm not basing this on her form which is most certainly strong enough in any case. This is what I'm basing it on:

When TAB Sportsbet opened their betting on the Melbourne Cup this year, they ran a special promotion. For a short period of time, they offered a special price of $21 about both Vinnie Roe and Makybe Diva. Loads of people jumped on quickly. Well, silly me, for some reason I actually believed all of the damn talk about Makybe Diva which was that they weren't going to even attempt the Cup with her this year. Instead I only put a piddly little $5 bet on Vinnie Roe.

Being the pessimist that I am, I just know that she's an absolute certainty to win the race now that I've missed out on those juicy odds. And she'll only be about $3 on the day. As for Vinnie Roe, he probably won't even come out here for the cup now. :rolleyes:

Stix

6th October 2005, 09:43 AM

Okay, I'm not basing this on her form which is most certainly strong enough in any case. This is what I'm basing it on:

When TAB Sportsbet opened their betting on the Melbourne Cup this year, they ran a special promotion. For a short period of time, they offered a special price of $21 about both Vinnie Roe and Makybe Diva. Loads of people jumped on quickly. Well, silly me, for some reason I actually believed all of the damn talk about Makybe Diva which was that she simply wasn't going to even attempt the Cup. Instead I only put a piddly little $5 bet on Vinnie Roe.

Being the pessimist that I am, I just know that she's a certainty to win the race now that I've missed out on those odds. And she'll only be about $3 on the day. As for Vinnie Roe, he probably won't even come out here for the cup. :rolleyes:The money they have put on in the past two days say's she will win going backward........ (maybe Vinnie is scared... ??).........but I'm still on Vouvray

La Mer

6th October 2005, 10:05 AM

The money they have put on in the past two days say's she will win going backward........ (maybe Vinnie is scared... ??).........but I'm still on Vouvray

According to newspaper reports $150,000 was bet on her alone yesterday, she is now into $4 in the pre-post markets.

angel417

6th October 2005, 12:11 PM

might as well maintain my obvious unpopularity on this forum bydisagreeing with you to Sportz!!Lee Freedman has stated all along that he was training her specifically for the Cox and that it would be to big an ask to back up in the Cup,and that he was waiting on the owner to advise him if he wanted to run in both.I remember laughing to myself when they had that promo you mentioned.At that stage I was convinced that neither would even run,from memory the minimum bet on her or Vinnie was $5 and maximum $50.The Diva quota was apparently sold out in 3 hours.Even if Vinnie does come,and I doubt it will,I think he had his chance to beat her last year and couldnt,and Dermot Weld is too smart to spend megabucks to come back with him when he knows he cant win,or at least cant beat her on her own turf.

Looking at cold hard stats,the imports record is pretty poor,regardless of all the hype that surrounds them,yet people get sucked in by it every year!!Having said that,and not wanting to contradict myself,I have some good doubles going in the CC with Distinction,which is already booked to come,and ran a big race last year for 6th from memory.I just hope they wise up and put a local jockey on it.

Another cold stat to consider,how many 7yo mares have won the Cup and how many mares have won it with the steadier of 58kgs??

And another stat,the record of favs in the Cup is abyssmal.Imo anyone who takes even money in the Cox,which I believe she will be,she's in to $2.30 already,or $3 in the MC,has obviously got more money than sense.

Imo the CC and the MC are fairly open this year,there is no standout at this stage.And remember the words of a bloke called Bart whose won the odd one or two,they have to have a lot of miles in their legs leading up to the Cup And run the wekend before to top them off.Dont forget the horse that bolted in with the Adelaide Cup Demerger.I took 25s its now in to 10s,so must be a bit of money for it,and it will run 2 miles right out.

Think the Cox is a 2 horse race,with Xcellent beating the Diva with Lad in 3rd spot.He has an incredible turn of foot(like her)it may come down to luck in running or the best ride on the day.He has only had 7 starts for 6 wins,for at G1,my only concern is the strathayr surface and the tight turns ay the Valley.

I will go on record by declaring him NEARLY a good thing at e/w odds.Have had a good hit at $6.50 and intend to unload more.

I am not canning the Diva,she is one of my favourite horses,but really think he is the heir apparent to her throne.

Apologies for digressing from your original topic.

cheers and good luck whatever you back.

Sportz

6th October 2005, 12:16 PM

So, are you saying that if you HAD backed Makybe Diva at $21 back then, you WOULDN'T be feeling very happy with yourself now???

Put it this way? If someone offered you $21 now, would you jump on???

That's what I mean. I'm not saying that she's any certainty to win the Cup, but surely $21 is looking pretty damn good right now.

angel417

6th October 2005, 01:16 PM

Maybe I am not as loopy as a lot of you seem to think,but I am entitled to my opinion,whether you agree or not!Yes,I would have a NIBBLE only if offered that price now,but I still dont believe she will run.Maybe you guys know something I dont,BUT I have not yet read anywhere that she is a certain starter yet.IMO they are waiting to see what the Cox takes out of her,and if Xcellent does beat her and he goes on to the Cup with a huge weight advantage,she will not run,so you could have got $51 and it would mean bugger all!!And I believe you are crying over spilt milk!!If you had $5 on Vinnie when there certainty he was even coming,why didnt you risk another $5 on the Diva??Cant work out your logic there mate,sorry.

Sportz

6th October 2005, 01:32 PM

And I believe you are crying over spilt milk!! If you had $5 on Vinnie when there certainty he was even coming,why didnt you risk another $5 on the Diva??Cant work out your logic there mate,sorry.

Ahhh yeah, neither can I right now. It was only a $5 bet, so I don't know why I didn't do the same with her. :( But I have to say that at that stage I was pretty confident that he WOULD be in the cup and almost certain that she WOULDN'T be. Shows how futile it is to try to work out what they're going to do months out from the race.

angel417

6th October 2005, 08:25 PM

mate please dont think that I was having a go at you or your punting integrity,I just truly belieieve thwt SPORTSBET THOUGHT WHERE TRYING TO SUCK IN A LOT OF MONEY OFF MUG PUNTERS WHO COULD NOT RESIST THE $21 ON OFFER ON TWO HORSES THAT THEY REALLY THOUGHT WOULD NOT EVEN BE GOING AROUND.tHAT IS FRAUD,AND i REALLY HOPE THEY COP IT UP THE YOU KNOW WHERE.

Chuck

6th October 2005, 08:40 PM

and grey's inn will win the yalumba and the cox, because i left it out of my stable, when i wanted it, but chose vouvray instead :(

Raw Instinct

6th October 2005, 08:42 PM

The only early bets I have had have been involved in doubles nothing massive bet wise but the odds were not to bad at the time I think one I had was Vouvray to win the Caulfield Cup and Railings to win the Melbourne Cup at $465-1 for $10 obviously if that by some miracle gets up then I will be ecstatic. The same bet right now sits at $170-1 so I guess if nothing else I also got some great value compared to now but only if both horses end up starting in the cups that is the chance you take. I also had $5 e/w on Railings for the MC at $61-1 he is now $17-1 that looks alright to the ting that worries me about Railings is the fact that I don't think Hawkes has ever trained a cup winner might be wrong there I also doubt he has really had a horse that could win certainly recently anyway.

Sportz

6th October 2005, 08:47 PM

Chuck, for exactly the same reason, God's Own will win the Guineas and Super Kid will win the Toorak. :o

Chuck

6th October 2005, 08:47 PM

mad

6th October 2005, 08:52 PM

Don't forget Dizelle, me thinks she deserves as much of a mention as anything else.

BORDI

6th October 2005, 08:52 PM

hey chuck,

what u mean left it out of ur stable?

does ne1 have ne solid tips on the thousand guinneas. i dont know much about this rewaaya but i know mnemosyne is a big chance. has anyone got sectionals and recent class ones etc. on the two??

cheers

matt..

mad

6th October 2005, 08:58 PM

Rewaaya is good Bordi, real good. I took her on recently at Moonee Valley and she absolutely blew them away. My suggestion is that she'll be too good for mnemosyne.

Raw Instinct

6th October 2005, 09:06 PM

Rewaaya is still improving possibly headed for the Oaks has one of the best turn of foot I have seen being out of an At Talaq mare it would suggest she should get over a bit of ground atleast. Mnemosyne on the other hand looks asthough it might be on the way out this prep I would think that her Thousand Guineas run will be her last regardless of whether she wins or not I would back Rewaaya out of either of those and that is saying something I usually will not touch favs.

Sportz

6th October 2005, 09:11 PM

Raw,

I'm normally dead against betting early on the cups as so much can go wrong. That's why I decided to only bet a grand total of just $20 for a bit of fun on four horses I thought were value at that early stage.

I actually liked the chances of Accumulate, so I had him and Vinnie Roe for the Melbourne Cup. And I picked out Matras and Tick By for the Caulfield Cup. I can sure pick 'em, cant I? :rolleyes:

Sportz

6th October 2005, 09:16 PM

hey chuck,

what u mean left it out of ur stable?

He's talking about the Fantasy Racing game that I'm running on this forum.

At the last minute, I left God's Own and Super Kid out of my stable as well. That's why I reckon they'll probably win this week too. :o

Raw Instinct

6th October 2005, 09:21 PM

I usually have a bit of a go at the doubles early on but rarely anything else unless it is above 50-1. I got the Cox plate Melbourne Cup double there a couple of years back with Fields of Omagh and Makybe Diva. Got the Double with St.Basil and Portland Singa in the Straddie and Brisbane Cup this year other than that though nothing mind you for $20 worth of bets there I was lucky enough to get just under $2000 worth in return.

Sportz

6th October 2005, 09:32 PM

For some reason, I don't usually go for the double. I really don't know why because I usually take out a couple of single bets on both cups in the week leading up to Caulfield and I have a pretty good record with them. A few times recently, I could have actually got the double if I had taken one. For example, Ethereal's year and also with Mummify/Makybe Diva and Elvstroem/Makybe Diva. Never mind, the single wins have been okay.

angel417

6th October 2005, 11:58 PM

sportz you are purely and simply an after the ball wanker.you never stop crying about how I was gonna back this or gonna back that.Are you a woman?You sure act like one.Since you came on here you have taken over,and I have no doubt most of the regular posters left because it became the"sportznut"forum with you and your myriad of systems,most of which were useless,if not why dont you post them anymore??You even stole my topweight system and reinvented it as your own,until it started losing that is.You even crowed about how "famous" you were when you got a mention in a newslewtter.Where all of your "faboulous" systems now??How you dont put your selections/systems/tips/on any more??I think you are BB from PPM in disguise.I would issue you this this personal challenge.........

1 race per state syd/mel/bris/
sat only
5 week duration
$100 per race
win only
1 selection only per race

so that is $300 per weekx5=$1500
let everyone see if you are the guru you make youself out to be,or the wanker you all seem to think I am.

No doubt all your brainwashed followers will howl me down and give you ample reason to evade the challenge,and you will ride the wave and make any excuse to avoid same.

look forward to your excuses for exempting.

beberrycareful

7th October 2005, 12:13 AM

u need to be careful angel! sportz and co are privileged "shareholders" of this forum, if u get my drift ;)

saratoga samchaz

7th October 2005, 03:44 AM

I agree Mad. Don't toss Dizelle off a couple of mediocre showings. Might be great value.

saratoga samchaz

7th October 2005, 04:00 AM

Angel, you definitely are entitled to your opinion, but you can't get on ANY horse racing fan who bitches after missing a winner that they were seriously considering. It happens so frequently that it can't be considered whining, but an inherent part of gambling. Now, harping over and over about the same near miss is obviously different than the frustration and mention of the bad end of a 50% selection between two horses. I do wish I could take all my f***-ups in stride and not even mention them. but I have too much bad luck to keep quiet.

Raw Instinct

7th October 2005, 06:27 AM

Angel that is a bit harsh not sure what your going on about with the systems or anything Sportz has always run comps which takes a ****load of time to do and I am sure pretty much everyone here is greatful he does it they are a bit of fun. I don't recall your name being around in the past but I could be wrong I do have a pretty bad memory just not sure why the hatred for Sportz if you don't like what you are reading noone has a gun to your head you don't have to read it, By that I amnot saying **** off anything I am simply saying everyone is allowed to have there opinion but personal attacks are a different story.

I ask if you have ever had a couple of horses you have liked for different races and tossed up between them and gone the wrong way I have done it plenty of times and I just get annoyed with myself this has been a great place for myself and I imagine quite a few others to vent there frustrations.

As I said if you don't like what your reading then you don't have to read it, it also bewildered me with the attack on Sportz maybe you have your reasons I just don't recall any of the stuff your talking about.

Sportz

7th October 2005, 06:27 AM

let everyone see if you are the guru you make youself out to be,or the wanker you all seem to think I am.

I do not make myself out to be any sort of guru. I'm not. As for what you are, well any sort of negative opinion that people may have of you will probably only be reinforced by your last post.

proxy

7th October 2005, 06:48 AM

Agree: Makybe Diva WILL win the Melbourne Cup

Sportz

7th October 2005, 07:01 AM

Angel that is a bit harsh not sure what your going on about with the systems or anything
Raw, I used to post systems on the betting systems forum. They started off well and were quite popular, but after a while I must admit that most of them started going backwards (as most systems do). At least I was honest about it, and I was genuinely worried that people might be losing money on them, so I stopped posting systems altogether. (I now don't use systems very much anyway) That's also the reason why I don't post tips regularly. I can't stand the thought of anyone else losing money off my tips. You can see I'd be no good at PPM. ;)

I ask if you have ever had a couple of horses you have liked for different races and tossed up between them and gone the wrong way I have done it plenty of times and I just get annoyed with myself this has been a great place for myself and I imagine quite a few others to vent there frustrations.
Yes, as you said, I think absolutely everyone that bets has at some stage had the feeling of "if only I had done this" or "if only I had chosen that" or "why didn't I include that". I'm afraid that being the pessimist that I am, I might do it a bit more than others, and I tend to say it on here instead of keeping it to myself. Sorry about that. :o

boxhead

7th October 2005, 06:33 PM

ijuandaQLD

7th October 2005, 08:06 PM

i wouldve loved to have seen Westerner come out and take her on. i had 100 on him at $31 and took the double makybe for the cox and westerner for the cup at $91. i was ****ed off when they decided to go to hong kong instead of here.

Sportz

7th October 2005, 09:28 PM

Well, it was always a longshot that Westerner would come out here. I remember hearing a discussion a couple of months ago on radio (sport927 I think) and a couple of the experts were saying that it would be great to see a horse of his calibre out here, but that he would not be coming, simple as that.

That $31 would have been more like $13 if he had been a genuine chance of running.

Sportz

8th October 2005, 04:14 PM

Chuck, for exactly the same reason, God's Own will win the Guineas and Super Kid will win the Toorak. :o
Well, half way there.

Sportz

8th October 2005, 04:46 PM

Pretty close, wasn't it? Geez, I could have been almost on top of the Fantasy comp, but instead I'm going to be WAY behind. Oh well, never mind.

Sportz

25th October 2005, 05:50 AM

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm thinking that it's looking less and less likely that she's going to run in the cup.

The way Lee Freedman is talking just makes me think it's not going to happen. Now he has entered her in the McKinnon, saying that if she wasn't going to run in the cup and if he wanted to run her during the carnival for the public, that would be a much softer option.

C'mon guys, don't be spoil sports. HAVE A GO! It's a once in a lifetime thing to have a chance at winning 3 Melbourne Cups. You're never going to have another chance at it!!!

brave chief

25th October 2005, 08:32 AM

Problem is she's had a light preparation & the Cup is only 7 days away. I can't see her running either.

Mackinnon & Sandown Cup?

BORDI

25th October 2005, 02:04 PM

who knows what lee has got planned. he has stated its a 50- 50 chance and that its up to tony santic (who wants her to run). experts have said the weight wont bother her, its only her fitness, which lee seems to think is fine. maybe lee wants the odds or sumthing? a hard track wont see her running and monday is forecast to be 26 degrees. not many horses at her age have the ability to run 3200m then go back to 2000m and be a mighty success. therefore i feel she should be able to run the 3200. she has put on over 20 kilos since last year, this may be beneficial over this distance.

the mares well being is there main concern, and good on em for thinking this way. they have nothing to prove, shes the best ever. but personally i feel if the track is going to be soft and easy on her she will run, if its hard they wont risk an injury on her (they got dubaii to think about)...

cheers

matt....

rabbitz

26th October 2005, 07:21 AM

now G.Boss reckons she's almost certain to run with a decision by friday

BORDI

26th October 2005, 03:26 PM

where did u read that rabbitz???

thefan

26th October 2005, 06:07 PM

Im happy to back the diva in the cup at early odds. Currently the highest quoted price is from sportsbet at $4.00/$1.75

davez

26th October 2005, 07:03 PM

report on the news reckons she will have a workout tomorrow am, with a decision on the cup to be then made.

personally i reckon they will set her for dubai, but like most i hope they do run her on tue.

Duritz

26th October 2005, 11:40 PM

Duritz

26th October 2005, 11:43 PM

They'll run her. Why wouldn't you run her?? She's a racehorse, it's what they're for.

However, she won't win it. Not with 58. Sorry all. I'm her biggest fan (bar perhaps Santic) but she won't win this race. And I'm not potting her. I said on this forum (not this thread, but this forum) that she was absolutely unbeatable in the Cox, so believe me I don't underestimate her abilities, I know exactly how good she is, but she won't win the Cup. Not with 2.5 kgs above WFA with a host of up and coming stayers around 4-8 kgs below WFA. She cannot give them that weight start and beat them. She can't give Leica Falcon (merely one example) 8 kgs and beat him. Effectively, she's giving him 9.5 kilos, because she's 2.5 above WFA and he's 7 below (on memory). That will stop her.

Whoever it was who mentioned Demerger earlier - back her. She'll fly.

Duritz

27th October 2005, 04:40 PM

Hmm. Bit of deja vu all over again there......

Sportz

27th October 2005, 04:50 PM

Never mind. The first version was simply for people who couldn't be bothered reading ALL of the second version. :D

Sportz

1st November 2005, 05:03 PM

When TAB Sportsbet opened their betting on the Melbourne Cup this year, they ran a special promotion. For a short period of time, they offered a special price of $21 about both Vinnie Roe and Makybe Diva. Loads of people jumped on quickly. Well, silly me, for some reason I actually believed all of the damn talk about Makybe Diva which was that they weren't going to even attempt the Cup with her this year. Instead I only put a piddly little $5 bet on Vinnie Roe.

Being the pessimist that I am, I just know that she's an absolute certainty to win the race now that I've missed out on those juicy odds. And she'll only be about $3 on the day.

Well, what did I tell ya? Geez, what on earth was I thinking back then? Even just a little fiver on the Diva like I threw on Vinnie Roe would have been handy.

xanadu

1st November 2005, 05:32 PM

Duritz-she certainly won and won in grand style.
There's an old truism in life .....horses and loose women will always make fools of men....

Cheers.

Sportz

1st November 2005, 06:02 PM

Yeah, I can certainly understand people picking another horse to beat her, but even if you did that, surely there's just no way you could say that she COULDN'T win. She's just too good to rule out completely like that.

Not just in this race, but in many other races too, an awful lot of racing people seem to go looking for reasons why the best horse in the race CAN'T win, instead of simply looking for why they CAN.

xanadu

1st November 2005, 06:06 PM

Well put Sportz....many of us under-estimated her incredible ability. What about the $1MILL punter...he would have had no real problems.
Salute the champion!

Cheers.

Sportz

1st November 2005, 08:12 PM

I'll never forget it. It was the last day of the Melbourne Cup carnival in 2002 and an up and coming 4 year old mare with a funny name won the Queen Elizabeth Stks with a very impressive performance. Well, I was SO impressed that I remember very clearly saying "That horse is going to win the Melbourne Cup next year". I never thought it would turn out like this!!! Incredible.

Duritz

2nd November 2005, 12:05 AM

I'll eat my hat.

Though in fairness, and people probably did see in another thread, I actually came around to her in the end. When I ended up doing the form after final fields were through, on Sunday, I found myself saying, "Well, she could win it after all."

I didn't back her, and you don't have to believe me but I did actually have her top pick in the end, but wasn't going to take the $3.60.

The way she accelerated with the 58.... my word.

Just quickly though, heaps of people are comparing her to the greats of the turf, she wouldn't have beaten Might And Power level weights 2400m. Everyone forgets him. Don't know why. Remember, she didn't run down Elvis, and Elvis ain't no Might and Power.

She's a champ, a "legend" to quote Greg Miles, but he would've beat her at level weights every time, and possibly over 3200 too. THAT would've been the interesting bit. See if he could hold her out over 2 mile. NO DOUBT he would've beat her 2400, 2 mile...? Interesting.

BORDI

2nd November 2005, 12:49 AM

thats rubbish duritz..... she won 3 MELB CUPS.... are ppl forgetting that?????

Duritz

2nd November 2005, 09:11 AM

He won one too, and his was leading all the way, TAKEN ON all the way by 3 different horses. They tag teamed taking him on and he fought them all off. He also won a Cox Plate.

As for what I said about 2400m. Did she ever win the Caulfield Cup? She ran 2nd to Elvstroem of course. Do you think Elvstroem would've beaten Might and Power that day he won his Caulfield Cup? Don't think so Eddie, lock in answer C Eddie, for the million, "Might and Power was the best 2400m horse of the last 25 years."

Again, I want to stress I am NOT potting Makybe Diva. I think she is a CHAMPION, an unbelieveable racehorse, but M&P was better over 2400.

BORDI

2nd November 2005, 05:56 PM

if she wanted a caulfield cup she would have taken one. i tell you know. mind you the penalty would have ruined any melb cup preparations she had going. u forgetting she beat elvis over 2000m in record time? i think shed do the other 400m seeing as thought she loves the 3200m

Duritz

2nd November 2005, 06:02 PM

She's a champion, a legend etc, but no horse in the world, and possibly no horse ever, would've beaten Might and Power the day he won his Caulfield Cup.

Sportz

2nd November 2005, 06:25 PM

So what? That was definitely one of the most brilliant performances I've seen and he was certainly a magnificent racehorse, but that was just ONE race. He didn't win it 3 years in a row, did he???

Ask any owner/trainer/jockey what race they most want to win. Some might say Cox Plate and perhaps a few might say Golden Slipper or Caulfield Cup, but the overwhelming majority would say Melbourne Cup. Despite what anyone says about it being just a staying handicap, it is still Australia's great race. And she's won it THREE times. In a row. Incredible.

And she hasn't just won the Melbourne Cup this year. She's won the Australian Cup, The BMW and the Cox Plate, the 3 biggest WFA middle distance races in the country. So she's not just some plugging 3200m stayer that can't perform over shorter distances.

AB51

2nd November 2005, 06:41 PM

So what? That was definitely one of the most brilliant performances I've seen and he was certainly a magnificent racehorse, but that was just ONE race. He didn't win it 3 years in a row, did he???

Ask any owner/trainer/jockey what race they most want to win. Some might say Cox Plate and a few might say Golden Slipper or Caulfield Cup, but the overwhelming majority would say Melbourne Cup. Despite what anyone says about it being just a staying handicap, it is still Australia's great race. And she's won it THREE times. In a row. Incredible.

And she hasn't just won the Melbourne Cup this year. She's won the Australian Cup, The BMW and the Cox Plate, the 3 biggest WFA middle distance races in the country. So she's not just some plugging 3200m stayer which can't perform over shorter distances.
Well I agree with all of you guys we actually have seen HISTORY in the making. However I think we have also seen next years cup winner if he makes it through the next twelve months and that horse is Leica Falcon, put him in the Black Book.

Duritz

2nd November 2005, 10:06 PM

Sportz - everything you said is true, and I am not trying to contradict any of those points. I also have never referred to her as a plugger or come anywhere near it. She is the best stayer in the country. She is also currently the best WFA horse in the country. I think she's a champion and one of the best 3 horse's I've seen.

All I am saying, and I don't know why people want to shoot me down for this but all I am saying is that over 2000-2400, Might and Power was better.

Not potting MD. Never would. Again, to repeat, I think she's the best horse in the country, best stayer, best WFA horse, obviously best mare. Just saying though, that he was better, and that's more due to his freakish abilities than to any lack on her part, because there is no lack on her part, it's just testament to how good he was.

slowman

2nd November 2005, 10:52 PM

you are dead right ther duritz.....you have to love a good day.........slowman..

BORDI

3rd November 2005, 12:14 AM

duritz...

might and power didnt break the 2000m record.... maykbe diva did and it was on a good track.

Duritz

3rd November 2005, 12:33 AM

She broke the 2000m Flemington record. Beating Winning Belle mind you. Is Winning Belle therefore better than Might and Power...?

(times are meaningless)

Anyway, M&P never raced at the Flemington 2000m so we won't pot him on that. He only raced over 2000m on GOOD TRACKS on two occasions. One of them was a failure, the other he came 1st, by 6 lengths, at RANDWICK (not Flemington), running only 0.6 seconds SLOWER than Makybe's 2000m record. Oh yeah, he was a 3yo then too...

He also beat fellow Melbourne Cup winner Champagne in Sydney one day by 10.5 lengths, in a Group 1. She ran 2nd.

He destroyed lots of fields like that, including of course beating multiple Group 1 winner Gold Guru by 5 lengths in Sydney one day, (in that race Caulfield AND Melbourne Cup winner Doriemus ran 3rd to him), and of course there's the day he beat the Caulfield Cup field by 7.5 lengths, in then track record time.

Oh yeah, and in case you don't believe me that times are meaningless, how's this for a time comparison - Might and Power's Cox Plate, fastest 2040m ever run on the Strathayr MV. And he led all the way. (that's right, faster than the Diva's even!)

Quick statistical comparison:

Might and POwer -- Makybe Diva

M.P. - 33 starts 15 wins (45.5%) - M. D. 36 starts 15 wins (41.7%)

M.P. - 7 Group 1 Victories (21.2%) - M.D. 7 Group 1 Victories (19.4%)

MP - 3 Group 2 Victories (9%) - MD 3 Group 2 Victories (8%)

MP - 2 Listed/G3 victories (6%) - MD 1 Listed/G3 victory (3%)

Quick formline comparison, 2400m:

Caulfield Cup, 2004 - Elvstroem beats Makybe Diva sht head.

Caulfield Cup, 1997 - Might and Power wins, 7.5 lengths.

Recent MRC Virtual Caulfield Cup competition, winner - Might and Power, 2nd - Let's Elope, 3rd - Elvstroem.

Argument is futile. Don't let emotion get in the way of your judgement. He was the better horse.

AGAIN, for those who will shoot me down, I am NOT potting MDiva. I think she is in the best 3 I have seen.

But he was better.

BORDI

3rd November 2005, 12:35 AM

i was sure they said it was a national record...

you forget to mention something in your stats.... PRIZEMONEY.

Duritz

3rd November 2005, 12:56 AM

Prizemoney??? How much prizemoney did Phar Lap win??? It's no comparison across eras man.

Hey the 2000m probably was a National record - the Flemington par times are better than most other tracks because Flemington has broader bends. That's why I mentioned that she broke the 2000m Flemington record, because it's a faster 2000m than Randwicks.

BORDI

3rd November 2005, 12:59 AM

it is wen you allow for increased prizemoney and inflation. they did it and phar lap was 14m but now makybe holds the record at 14.5m

dont you read the papers??

Duritz

3rd November 2005, 12:59 AM

In fact if you want to project times, on the standard times the Flemington 2000m is 1.5 seconds quicker than the Randwick 2000, SO, that makes Might And Power's 2000m win at Randwick about 0.9 seconds FASTER than Makybe's Australia Cup.

That is if you still want to talk times...

Again, prizemoney isn't an indication of ability, no matter what they do to the figures.

Better Loosen Up

3rd November 2005, 09:54 PM

I find it very disappointing reading all this who's better than who. Instead of speanding so much time doing statistics to try to compare horses, take a deep breath, sit down, a have a good think about what Makybe Diva has actually achieved this week. 3 Melbourne Cups in a row! Tuesday she broke other amazing records as well, records that most punters have been using as reason to back against her! She is the first horse to win 3 Melbourne Cups in a row in around 150 years of this great race and all of us were privilaged enough to have witnessed it!

Duritz - Might and Power was an amazing horse in his own right and also achieved great things in his shortened career just like my favourite horse and i'm sure you can work out who that was. It's difficult to imagine how good both of those horses could have been as both were virtually unbeatable at the time their careers were cut tragically short. Enjoy the memories of him as the racing fan i'm sure you are like I do with Better Loosen Up but try to appreciate Makybe Diva's achievements and not compare the two.

Sportz

3rd November 2005, 10:06 PM

Well said, BLU. :)

Better Loosen Up

3rd November 2005, 10:29 PM

All I can say is that watching her win on Tuesday certainly pulled a few heart strings. As the saying goes "you're a long time dead"!

I read that one very smart punter backed her to win for $1. They did this so that they can hold on to that ticket for many years to come to show their kids and grandchildren as i'm sure she will be talked abot for many years to come.

Assuming that she becomes as popular as Phar Lap in the future, that persons ticket, (should they decide to sell it), will return a lot more than $3.80.

Smart thinking!

Stix

4th November 2005, 09:35 AM

I find it very disappointing reading all this who's better than who. Instead of speanding so much time doing statistics to try to compare horses, take a deep breath, sit down, a have a good think about what Makybe Diva has actually achieved this week. 3 Melbourne Cups in a row! Tuesday she broke other amazing records as well, records that most punters have been using as reason to back against her! She is the first horse to win 3 Melbourne Cups in a row in around 150 years of this great race and all of us were privilaged enough to have witnessed it!

Better L U

You are right.

You can not compare different horses, trained with different philosophies, racing in different era's in differing conditions during profoundly differing National psyche contexts (i.e. Phar Lap and the Depression)....... It can not be done.

What CAN BE DONE is to enjoy and marvel in the feats of 3 wins in a row......

w924

4th November 2005, 09:47 AM

Hi BLU,

"Assuming that she becomes as popular as Phar Lap in the future, that persons ticket, (should they decide to sell it), will return a lot more than $3.80."

never thought of that..

what impressed me far more than her winning three Melb cups ( can be a lottery race) is the fact that she won a good 1400m race (1st up?) and the Cox Plate and the Melb cup in one preparation.

Stix

4th November 2005, 09:52 AM

I read that one very smart punter backed her to win for $1. They did this so that they can hold on to that ticket for many years to come to show their kids and grandchildren as i'm sure she will be talked abot for many years to come.

Assuming that she becomes as popular as Phar Lap in the future, that persons ticket, (should they decide to sell it), will return a lot more than $3.80.

Smart thinking!Not so smart if they got a S-TAB ticket printout...... it will only last a month and then f-a-d-e a-w-a-y.............. or it will turn black if it gets to hot........ or can't be read because it smudges and/or folds to easily........ (LOL!)