Pre Post Prices

[BJ]

Can somebody please explain this to me?

Seems to me that there are alot of systems that people use that involve pre post prices.

Now on big events such as the Melbourne Cup, I believe that you can actually bet on the pre post prices. If the horse doesn't make it to the races then you have done your dollars.

Now often people refer to getting the pre post prices from the newspaper. Now if you can actually bet with the people that are giving these prices, then all is good.

I always thought that these newspaper prices were just somebodies opinion of what they predict the market will be.
Do these not vary from newspaper to newspaper?

Now this is confusing to me. Are they not just somebodies opinion? I mean, if you look at the trots pre post markets in the Herald Sun ( I think done by Hutchison? ) he singles out his best bet, and his best roughie.
If all the prices are not just his opinion, then how can he know the best roughie? If he has rated a horse at 20-1, then why would he choose it as his best roughie? Surely if he liked its chances, he would rate it a lot shorter.

Now if the prices on display are an actual bookmakers price, then maybe he has rated it as a $4 chance and knowing that $20 is available, it is his best roughie.
Although I don't think this is the case.

If you can actually bet on the prices shown in newspapers then please feel free to stomp all over me, but if I am right and these are just somebodies opinion, then I think that anybody that bases any sort of a system around these markets is really kidding themselves.

[partypooper]

Hope I'm not telling me Granny how to blow eggs here, but pre-post prices and "ANTI - POST prices are 2 different things.

Anti-post is literally the market formed by a particular bookmaker on an "all in basis" often days or weeks before the race, so yes if you take the price and the nag is withdrawn you have done your dough!

Whereas pre-post prices, or as we say in the uk (forcast prices) is indeed someone's opinion of the likely SP, though they would have to be pretty well informed I guess.

You are able to bet here at top fluctuation with a stipulated minimum price with IAS as well as others, so let's say you wanted a $100 on Makavi Diva today at top fluc (minimum $4 , as per WA TAB-FORM)

Your bet was on at $4.60c so you collect.

However if the the top fluc had been say $3.90 your bet would have been OFF, even though it won.

Hope this helps!!

[Dale]

There is nothing wrong with pre post prices!

If a horse is $4 pre post and ends up winning at $10 people form the opinion that the pre post market is not accurate.

If someone who has their own version of weight ratings published their selctions and rated the same horse at $4 they would be applauded.

Its all in how you look at them.

Year after year the pre post favorites,2nd favs,3rd favs etc win at the same rate,they are a strong "GUIDE" and do me just fine.

[partypooper]

Dale, I agree, in fact it's uncanny how accurate they are really, to the extent that approx 50% of all winners are quoted pre-post fav or 2nd fav.

BJ just elaborating a bit more, yes the pre-post markets are formed by "someones" opinion but that someone is VERY unlikely to be the office tea boy, they are in fact RATINGS in a way.

Just wondering if anyone has an extensive data base of pre-post favs, that could be useful,I have started one, but not enough data yet to make any consise predictions.

[BJ]

My main point is that if you buy a different newspaper to the guy next door, you both get different pre post prices.
If you are both using the same system revolving around pre post prices, you are going to get completely different results.

[feather]

Partypooper - I dont have a data base, just the newspaper, and
dare I say I have several different "methods" on the go using the favourite from the paper. Some started in january and the others march this year.
So far from january to october these are my results
321 races x 157 wins returning $485.95.
All have lost two months each.
I do understand this is not much of a return compared to the majority of u guys, but I'm happy with what I am doing.
Bj - I use the courier mail

[partypooper]

Feather, do NOT sell yourself short, after many many years of trying I cannot match that 50% on T/O, or anywhere near it!!

I do have a method using the PP fav that is showing just over 50% WINNERS but the POT, although acceptable is no where near what you are achieving!!


BJ, Ah! now you are touching on something else, yes I agree entirely,.... the moral of the tale is : ALWAYS use the same source for your pp prices. Some swear by this one and that one, in my experience the Racing Radio PP fav has proven to be the most accurate, but overall there is not much difference to the final outcome over say 1000 races, but if you were to swap between one and another adding in the "murphy" factor youre bound to come unstuck!

[Chrome Prince]

Agreed Partypooper, chopping and changing is probably the worst thing to do.

[BJ]

So far from january to october these are my results
321 races x 157 wins returning $485.95.
All have lost two months each.
I do understand this is not much of a return compared to the majority of u guys, but I'm happy with what I am doing.
Bj - I use the courier mail


At the end of the day, it is a personal thing.
It is not something I could do. There is less to be known about the person doing the form, than the horses he/she is rating.

If they are so good at doing the form, then surely they could make so much more money by punting full time. All they are doing is pointing everybody to there selections, hence decreasing the value they are getting. They are shooting themselves in the foot.
If they are not backing these horses themselves, then they are not going to care. But do you really want to rely on somebody elses ideas that don't rely on their own?

The only way I can select the horses to bet on is majority. I would rather take 20,000 peoples combined opinion over 1 any day of the week. And I do. Everyday.... :)

I do envy your POT though Feather. Although I am in profit, my POT is nowhere near that. I am a high turnover/low profit kind of guy.....

But as long as we all end up in front and have a good time, then I guess who really cares how we get there...

I still question the term "pre post prices" though. They are somebodies ratings. If there is no price available, then how can it be called a price?

[partypooper]

BJ, good discussion this, now I am a LONG way from being an expert, but as I understand it some of the pre-post markets are formed by BOOKMAKERS, i.e. that's their opinion based on past performance + other factors as to what will be on offer for that race, and of course the bookies do put their money where their opinion is and make a profit of course because the market that they have formed is probably around 125% or so. Remember that a bookie lays horses AND backs horses to arrive at a (hopefully) win win situation over time.

Now I am reliably informed that some publications use a mechanical programme to form the pre-post market, obviously still using past performance, + several other factors, jockeys , breeding etc etc. But in this case their is not a single person's opinion involved, it's a computer.

Think in another way, you know that mechanically picking 1st and 2nd forcast fav will produce the winner 50% of the time. SO, start with this basic requirement, THEN apply your own rules, judgment etc. I'm sure your S/R will increase.

Either way it would be great to emulate Feathers POT wouldn't it?

[feather]

Bj, not sure why you would envy me for, when I envy everyone else on this forum. I cannot do ratings, video watch/times etc.
I do remember Sportz’s newspaper methods, and one of mine is still his today Inside/Outside – except I only look at the last two runs.
I also remember, when first finding this site, and backing Williams tips each day, then I thought what he does not put his selections here, What will I do.
I love to bet each day to, I am sick of loosing, sick of putting money into my betting account, sick of “buying” tips and going no where. But I am also only a small bettor
What I wanted to do, was to be able to pick up the newspaper and make a selection from that.
When I finally came to realize that I may not have a bet each day, I would say " there is always tomorrow or the next”.
Then when I found my selections, I would place my bets before the first race. This works two ways for me. Firstly I found if I “looked around” before doing so, it would sway me to go with popular belief, no one had picked my selection so therefor it could not win. And Secondly I would not have to look at the price when placing the bet, if it was to high, once again I would say it won’t win.
I also came to realize that the newspaper favourite is maybe not the tab favourite, and this is where the good returns comes in. Once I put all this is to practice, things turned around for me.
Partypooper, I only had one bet today “One of a Kind”. It’s the favourite in my paper. Only paid $1.70 for the win, but I won and I’m happy.
This method is showing a 47% strike & 43% pot, using the courier mail, but if you stuck to the maidens...54%pot

[partypooper]

Feather, what ever you do do NOT let any of us put you off!! If you have found a method that wins for you ,.... GO FOR IT!!

I am not knocking the Pre-Post fav. approach on the contrary, I believe there is a LOT of merit there. In fact it is only a "twist" away from my own winning method!!

Just one thing though, you MUST be betting at either top tote OR best fluctuation, if not, change RIGHT NOW!!

[crash]

Hi Feather,

You are doing one of the smartest things a punter can do, and that is being very selective about your bets and the races you bet on. You obviously don't need a bet in every race or even a bet every day. Betting on poor races [collectively, unbeatable races long term] is the widest road to the poor house in this game.

[Merriguy]

Just want to say "Hear, Hear" to partypooper's post.

Your one bet yesterday paying $1.70 paid $2.00 on Austote. Depending just when you put your money on, the least it would have returned you is $1.90 (they take up to 5% commission on winners depending on the above). Not much different? On a $100 bet it is an extra $20.00 in your pocket at least!! That's a massive difference. Remember that the big players, so they say, only work overall on a much narrower margin than that 'extra'.

I, too, find mucking around with 'best fluc', etc. rather confusing. But you don't have to go to great lengths to find a better return than just one tote or whatever. (And I only give the Austote example for the sake of illustration --- Makybe Diva started at $5.50 there. Their site with screen size adjustments is a bit of a pain. You get used to it. And they don't operate on all meetings, but....) and there are plenty of other options. :)

[Dale]

(1)The only way I can select the horses to bet on is majority. I would rather take 20,000 peoples combined opinion over 1 any day of the week. And I do. Everyday.... :)


(2)I still question the term "pre post prices" though. They are somebodies ratings. If there is no price available, then how can it be called a price?


(1) I bet if we pulled 20,000 mug punters out of the tab and asked them to form a market on each and every race and then combined and averaged their markets they would be completly outperformed by this so called "office boy".

Majorities are good for things like elections but if one wants to increase their POT they need an angle that takes advantage when the majority get it wrong.

(2)Yes they are really ratings but as they have been turned into prices they have every right to be called ummmm prices.............

[Dale]

. You obviously don't need a bet in every race or even a bet every day. Betting on poor races [collectively, unbeatable races long term] is the widest road to the poor house in this game.


Hi Crash,

What type of races do you think are collectively unbeatable?

[crash]

Unbeatable races are races with too much depth or too little such as when there is an odds-on favorite [If I bet on the thing it will loose and if I bet against it, it will win]. Betting in say 50 [name your number] of these races over a year will show a [big?] loss, so 'collectively' they are unbeatable races.

Also, we are all looking for value [or should be] on what we believe can win a race. Often it just isn't there. If our overall win strike rate is 1 in 4, we better make sure our winning prices [averaged out] are better than 3/1 or all our bets are in unbeatable races.

There are plenty of races and prices to choose from.

[BJ]

(1) I bet if we pulled 20,000 mug punters out of the tab and asked them to form a market on each and every race and then combined and averaged their markets they would be completly outperformed by this so called "office boy".

Majorities are good for things like elections but if one wants to increase their POT they need an angle that takes advantage when the majority get it wrong.

(2)Yes they are really ratings but as they have been turned into prices they have every right to be called ummmm prices.............


The starting price is the combined opinion of everybody that has laid a bet on that race.
If you were to take the favourite of every race and back it, you would return ~90% of your money back over time. Now when you consider the tab have a takeout of 14.5%, then in a 100% market, favourites would return about 104%.
This to me is the best form of ratings available. Actual start prices versus projected prices wins hands down.

Computer ratings don't take everything into account. They simply don't know. Do they know how well the horse trained, or how the horses diet is, or that it is getting set for a big race in 2 weeks time? I can guarantee it doesn't know how the horse looks on race day.
The question is who does know this? The punter. The money.

[BJ]

Unbeatable races are races with too much depth or too little such as when there is an odds-on favorite [If I bet on the thing it will loose and if I bet against it, it will win]. Betting in say 50 [name your number] of these races over a year will show a [big?] loss, so 'collectively' they are unbeatable races.

Also, we are all looking for value [or should be] on what we believe can win a race. Often it just isn't there. If our overall win strike rate is 1 in 4, we better make sure our winning prices [averaged out] are better than 3/1 or all our bets are in unbeatable races.

There are plenty of races and prices to choose from.

Somebody wins every race, every day. There is no such thing as an unbeatable race.
I bet to a system, and have gambled on over 7500 races since mid April this year. There is nothing anywhere in my results that suggest certain types of races over others.

[crash]

Someone wins tatslotto every day, but from an individual basis [which was obviously my point], some 'bets' are in unbeatable races due to depth and poor odds. Tattslotto is an example of a 'race' [admittedly of a different kind] with extreme depth that for [almost] all of us, will remain an unbeatable race.

Everyone has their unbeatable races. I've had the Tri. in the Melb. Cup [box 3] and the winner a few times but after 35yrs. of punting on it, I'm way behind because it is an unbeatable race for me. How many of us who have been in this game for awhile are in front betting on the Melb. Cup ? The Caulfield Cup ? The Cox Plate ? Maiden races ? Hurdles ? etc. Having a few wins in poor betting races, doesn't put you in front of their game. For most people, there are plenty of unbeatable races that will remain unbeatable.

Naturally I expect BJ and Dale to be in front in all of the above races [with 1st. devision Tattslotto wins too] :-)

[BJ]

Someone wins tatslotto every day, but from an individual basis [which was obviously my point], some 'bets' are in unbeatable races due to depth and poor odds.

Tattslotto is an example of a 'race' [admittedly of a different kind] with extreme depth that for [almost] all of us, will remain an unbeatable race.

Everyone has their unbeatable races.

Naturally I expect BJ and Dale to be in front in all of the above races [with 1st. devision Tattslotto wins too] :-)

Tattslotto has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Yes some people end up in front by playing tattslotto, but it is and always will be unbeatable. It is a random number generator that pays out 65% of what is put in. To compare is ludicrous.

Yes everybody has their unbeatable races. The ones they lose on. Nobody has a 100% strike rate. But to suggest that you should steer clear of a certain type of race is wrong. Every race is a different event. The Melbourne Cup of next year has nothing at all to do with this one that has just been run. It will have different horses running, all with different form lines.

There is value to be found in every race. Just because you can't find it, doesn't mean that nobody can.

I ask you this. If you had have laid every horse that you had backed in the Melbourne cup over the last 35 years, would you be in front? Either you answer yes, meaning that they are indeed beatable, or no, meaning that by backing them you would have won. Either way, you would have won on an "unbeatable" race.
How could this be possible?

[Chrome Prince]

If you were to take the favourite of every race and back it, you would return ~90% of your money back over time. Now when you consider the tab have a takeout of 14.5%, then in a 100% market, favourites would return about 104%.
This to me is the best form of ratings available. Actual start prices versus projected prices wins hands down.

Computer ratings don't take everything into account. They simply don't know. Do they know how well the horse trained, or how the horses diet is, or that it is getting set for a big race in 2 weeks time? I can guarantee it doesn't know how the horse looks on race day.
The question is who does know this? The punter. The money.

Hi BJ, you are spot on here.

The prepost is not as accurate as the actual starting price for strike rate.

A far greater percentage of races are won by the top jockey and trainers, this has a lot to do with it. These types are backed in heavily to come out favourite in the top 4 prepost, unless there is something else outstanding.

One only has to look at the firmers from prepost to SP and see how heavily the popular guys are backed in. This erodes the value, but lifts the strike rate.

Now if the prepost allowed for popularity rather than ratings, it would be just as accurate and a lot less variation.

As it stands Joe Public gets it right more often.

Try backing the prepost faves that blow out - there's better value but less strike rate.

[partypooper]

Chrome, your comment about pre-post favs that blow out, this is something I've been interested in for a while, but have no data to be able to formulate a plan. I have hard copies of WA TAB-FORM which is what I use for the PP prices, but so far have not found a source to archive the Top Fluc on horses that have run unplaced ....any ideas??? or do you have any data?

[Chrome Prince]

Partypooper,

TABFORM is not as accurate as the newspaper because they use GTX to formulate prepost prices. There are often massive differences in the top end favourites, but you could use it as a starting point.

I don't have longterm figures, but there has got to be value there.

Look at Youths Edge for example:

Prepost was $8.00 in the paper and won paying $11.40 on 3/11/2005

Yesterday Sherwood Forest $3.00 PP WON paying $3.80
Up'n'doing PP $2.25 won paying $3.40

The plunge money often is wrong.

Whether this is profitable longterm is somethng else.

I'm going to start keeping extensive records on this and see where it goes.

[Dale]

How many of us who have been in this game for awhile are in front betting on the Melb. Cup ?

Naturally I expect BJ and Dale to be in front in all of the above races [with 1st. devision Tattslotto wins too] :-)


Without a single doubt i am way in front on the Melbourne Cups i have bet on.

I cant see how you can call it an "unbeatable" race just because you dont win on it,it is a very beatable race,i think what you mean is that it is not your type of race and not onethat suits your punting make.

I concentrate on very open races with big fields and longer priced favorites,in a way it is my specialty,i find them beatable.

I dont consider the races i dont bet on unbeatable races,i think there is no such thing,every race type is beatable if one knows the ins and outs of that race type.

What has lotto got to do with anything,there is no skill involved in lotto,its pure chance,itd be nice to win though,one of these days.

[Dale]

Look at Youths Edge for example:

Prepost was $8.00 in the paper and won paying $11.40 on 3/11/2005

Yesterday Sherwood Forest $3.00 PP WON paying $3.80
Up'n'doing PP $2.25 won paying $3.40

The plunge money often is wrong.

Whether this is profitable longterm is somethng else.

I'm going to start keeping extensive records on this and see where it goes.


A lot of the bets i have get out to remarkable odds considering their pre post prices,$6 and $7 2nd favorites blowing out to 20's are fairly common and one memorable one for me a few months back was a horse that went from $13 pp to pay $76 uni tab.

Your findings will make interesting reading if you decide to post them.

[kenchar]

Dale,

The best one I can remember was a horse called Bravery ( I will always remember this one ) in the mid 80's.
I used to go to every meeting I could get to in those days.
I worked a system out for my son who used to go the track with me.
It was based on prepost bet 2 horses a race using a type of martingale staking.
His first bet was $1 each nag.
The system ran meeting to meeting so basically the cycle never ended.
It was at Randwick and from memory one of those races where they were all first starters.
Bravery was $5 2nd or 3rd fav prepost.
My son was on a losing run from the last meeting and his bet on this race was $25 a horse so $50.
He came up to me and asked what he should do ( the old run of outs dirty underpants scenario ) as Bravery was 80/1 with the bookies and thought He should not bet it.
I made him place the bet.
You guessed it last on the bend came down the outside and won going away.
I will never forget it as long as I live the look on his face.
Interesting though the horse did bugger all after that, BUT this was an absolute fluke and I think the bookies are more right than they are wrong.
The person that RATED the race ( according to the majority on this forum was the office boy ) was correct.
Hey any office boys out there want a job.:rolleyes:

Cheers.

[Chrome Prince]

Kenchar,

I love stories like that.

There's nothing better than when your horse looks like it's lost all chance and it flashes down the outside to win. Even better when it's an outsider.

The euphoria of racing is second to none.

[kenchar]

CP,

I suppose in a way I have got to agree, in those days it was actually fun going to the track talking the all the regulars, and watching the ones one learnt to watch.
I still remember Con Kafataris in the interstate ring as basically a snotty nose kid starting out when his old man was a rails bookie, look at him today.
Actually he gave me a bit of good advise one day and that was on Brisbane wednesday meetings look at the Bris prices coming out of Bris and if the Syd interstate books had a horse particularly short compared to the Bris price, get on.
He wasn't far wrong.
Today it's a job no emotion just a ****** screen and keyboard, but better than working or having a business.
I have to admit though when I backed Strasbourg the other day only $20 e/w I was probably yelling as much as you did when your millionare won on sat.
As cynical as I sound sometimes I guess some of the thrill is still inside me.

All the best.

Hey management you did it again must be costing you a fortune having that little gremlin monitoring every post.
I really can't see what is wrong with bloady when one can read newspapers and they print berstad.

[Chrome Prince]

Kenchar,

It's just an automated block consisting of swear words in general.

[kenchar]

CP,
I know that, just having a stir, so from now on an i will be a 1 etc.
Should be fun and REALLY get the little gremlin busy.:rolleyes:

[crash]

Chrome,
It's not just swear words the program blocks, but some other racing sites too. Try printing www.**********.com. Yep, it's still doing it. The site was www. e.x.p.e.r.t.f.o.r.m.com.au Must be competition in something. I would be interested to know all the sites it blocks just out of curiosity.

[Dale]

Dale,

The best one I can remember was a horse called Bravery ( I will always remember this one ) in the mid 80's.
I used to go to every meeting I could get to in those days.
I worked a system out for my son who used to go the track with me.
It was based on prepost bet 2 horses a race using a type of martingale staking.
His first bet was $1 each nag.
The system ran meeting to meeting so basically the cycle never ended.
It was at Randwick and from memory one of those races where they were all first starters.
Bravery was $5 2nd or 3rd fav prepost.
My son was on a losing run from the last meeting and his bet on this race was $25 a horse so $50.
He came up to me and asked what he should do ( the old run of outs dirty underpants scenario ) as Bravery was 80/1 with the bookies and thought He should not bet it.
I made him place the bet.
You guessed it last on the bend came down the outside and won going away.
I will never forget it as long as I live the look on his face.
Interesting though the horse did bugger all after that, BUT this was an absolute fluke and I think the bookies are more right than they are wrong.
The person that RATED the race ( according to the majority on this forum was the office boy ) was correct.
Hey any office boys out there want a job.:rolleyes:

Cheers.


That reminds me of a horse called Landowner from about 10 years ago,i was working this sytem i had developed and had a staking plan that called for increased bets,i was only new to the game and was a little nervous putting the required $20 straight out on a horse that was $10 pre post,anyhow i placed the bet and was amazed to see the horse win at odds of $35.


The system ended up on the scrap heap after i lost my bank a few months later but with the $700 adrenalin rush still fresh in my memory i went to work trying to find a profitable angle.

Thank you Landowner.

[KennyVictor]

The prepost is not as accurate as the actual starting price for strike rate.

A far greater percentage of races are won by the top jockey and trainers, this has a lot to do with it. These types are backed in heavily to come out favourite in the top 4 prepost, unless there is something else outstanding.

One only has to look at the firmers from prepost to SP and see how heavily the popular guys are backed in. This erodes the value, but lifts the strike rate.

Now if the prepost allowed for popularity rather than ratings, it would be just as accurate and a lot less variation.


I can't agree with your last paragraph here Chrome. If popularity of jockey and trainer (assuming this corresponds in some quantifiable way to frequency of winning of jockey and trainer) is such an important factor I'm sure any rater worth his salt could allow for it easily and adjust his ratings accordingly. Maybe the prepost guys are looking for better value or have less information at the time of rating perhaps.

KV

[Chrome Prince]

Hi KennyVictor,

It is quantifiable in that after watching prepost prices and recording them for quite a while, 90% of Hawkes, Waterhouse, Freedman, Hayes, Beadman, etc etc horses come in to start shorter than the prepost. 10% of others come in.

These horses are usually under 10/1 though.

This is why invariably you can't make a profit, even though they have such a good strike rate. In a perfect world, one should be able to make a killing.

You might notice that some of the above are showing a profit at level stakes, but this usually comes from one outsider getting up.

I read a very interesting post on a UK forum last night, of a system where a guy had found each trainers niche and backed the runners only in those races. He is doing very very well.

I'm not suggesting it would work here, but it's definitely worth thought.

Some trainers do very well with their horses first up, some do well with 2yo's, or Group races etc etc.

He had gone back over 5 years to see each trainers training habits.

I wouldn't use it though, because each crop in the stable is new or getting older and results can vary too much.

I know a few leading trainers who have had a run of 2 years where they just could not get decent horses.

[Top Rank]

Kenchar,

Must be a different Bravery to the one I remember. Was owned by the Lone Star syndicate, trained by B. Mayfield Smith and won a Qld Oaks amongst others.

[kenchar]

Top Rank,

That was the name maybe I'm wrong about what it did after, I have just sent off a search to see if I can get it's full career form, see what comes back and let you know, or maybe you have it and could post it here.

Cheers

[BJ]

Chrome,
It's not just swear words the program blocks, but some other racing sites too. Try printing www.**********.com. Yep, it's still doing it. The site was www. e.x.p.e.r.t.f.o.r.m.com.au Must be competition in something. I would be interested to know all the sites it blocks just out of curiosity.


Not sure but I am glad you printed that one out for me. Was checking it out a few weeks ago but forgot the name. Has just been added to favourites, will not forget again...

[kenchar]

Top Rank,

Here's another you can check out if you like, again mid 80's.
Melbourne race , cant remember which track but again was at Randwick and on a weds.
Judges Rule 15/1 on interstate fluctuations, I bet $960 but the best I could get was 12/1 and I think from memory was with Harry Barret, can't be sure but maybe you can get him to check his betting sheets.
Was a distance race and my horse went 10 lengths ahead and I nearly threw my betting slip away then, won by about 4 lengths ( but not real sure might have been 3 lengths ) again check that out.

All the best

[kenchar]

Top Rank,

Sorry about this but you have really got the old memories going ( I admit I have now had a few drinks ).
Again mid 80's a big Brisbane (I think) race ( you can see I'm an expert when I can remember all the names of the races and where they were run).
Myocard ( I think that was it's name but was a hotpot) left it out of a tri was a photo for 3rd, and the longest photo I have been through and it ran 4th.
Was quite a rewarding Tri.
I'm sure you can check that one out too.
I am pretty sure of the nags name, actually I think it won the slipper.

Cheers.

[kenchar]

Top Rank


Bravery (AUS)

Brown Mare, foaled 1984



Full Race Record

<BLANKLINE></BLANKLINE><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width=630 border=0><COLGROUP><COL span=7 align=middle><COL align=right></COLGROUP><TBODY><TR><TH>Season</TH><TH>Country</TH><TH>Age</TH><TH>Starts</TH><TH>Wins</TH><TH>Seconds</TH><TH>Thirds</TH><TH>Earnings</TH></TR><TR><TD>1987</TD><TD>AUS</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>A$12,305</TD></TR><TR><TD>1988</TD><TD>AUS</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>A$325,660</TD></TR><TR><TD>1989</TD><TD>AUS</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>A$21,900</TD></TR><TR><TD>1990</TD><TD>AUS</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>-</TD></TR><TR><TD>Totals</TD><TD> </TD><TD> </TD><TD>26</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>A$359,865</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=8>Winner from 1000m to 2400m</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width=630 border=0><COLGROUP><COL span=3 vAlign=top align=left><COL vAlign=top align=right></COLGROUP><TBODY><TR><TH>Date</TH><TH>Placing</TH><TH>Performance</TH><TH>Earnings</TH></TR><TR><TD>01/May/1989</TD><TD>1st</TD><TD>BATC Carnival H., L, 2031m. Tawrrific was 2nd and Miss Stephenson 3rd.</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>20/Aug/1988</TD><TD>4th</TD><TD>AJC Warwick S., Gr.2, 1400m. </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>11/Jun/1988</TD><TD>1st</TD><TD>Queensland Derby, Gr.1, 2400m. Imprecetto was 2nd and Judyann 3rd.</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>21/May/1988</TD><TD>1st</TD><TD>Queensland Oaks, Gr.1, 2400m. Judyann was 2nd and Ironic Lady 3rd.</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>02/May/1988</TD><TD>1st</TD><TD>BATC Sixty Minutes S., 2200m. </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>06/Apr/1988</TD><TD>4th</TD><TD>AJC Oaks, Gr.1, 2400m. Savana City was 1st and Lady Liberty 2nd and Candide 3rd.</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>02/Apr/1988</TD><TD>2nd</TD><TD>AJC Adrian Knox S., Gr.3, 2000m. Track 0. Lady Liberty was 1st and Palace Revolt 3rd.</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>22/Mar/1988</TD><TD>1st</TD><TD>AJC Classic Mission H., 2400m. </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>16/Sep/1987</TD><TD>4th</TD><TD>Newcastle JC Spring S., L, 1600m. All Ashore was 1st and Count Henri 2nd and Impoverish 3rd.</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>07/Feb/1987</TD><TD>1st</TD><TD>AJC Dorothea Mackellar H., 1000m. </TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



I knew I was correct in the name, but was so wrong about what she did after, maybe it was the spaced runs that threw me, but I am not a horse follower as I have mentioned numerous times before.
Anyhow thanks for the correction, I really had a good MEMORY night last night.
I'm like all punters though, remember the good results and forget the bad ones.

All the best.

[Top Rank]

Kenchar,

I am reading all of your posts with an amused but puzzled look. I take it you were in a playful mood when you posted them all.

It may appear that I am a horse person having followed them for years and as you say, remember the good ones forget the bad ones.

If you are taking the ****, well so be it, that is the Australian way, I am not taking it too seriously.

Good Punting

[kenchar]

Top Rank,

No not having a go, I actually thought it was you having a go at me, and got my back up .
Obviously I'm wrong and I apologise for the thoughts that I had.
There are so many nonbelievers on this forum that can't make it themselves and their greatest claim to fame is to knock anyone that goes OK.
I always try to post in an honest way and if I say something it is the truth as far as I know.
Anyhow I'm the loser as it cost me $10 to get the career stats on Bravery.

All the best.

[Top Rank]

Apologies Kenchar if you felt I was having a go at you, could'nt have been further from the truth.

I don't post that much, probably because I don't have much to say, but I instantly remembered Bravery and just quickly typed without even thinking.

Your sentiments about the posting on this forum, I have also have found to be not to far from the mark, probably another reason I don't post that much.

Have a good night.

[kenchar]

Appreciated.