Smart punters.....

[Horse Whisperer]

Crafty betting scheme leaves bookies in the doghouse

Gary Keep and Chris Bassani
21dec05
AN ingenious legal betting sting at the Gold Coast greyhounds ripped more than $200,000 from off-course bookmakers throughout Australia yesterday.



A NSW betting syndicate legitimately involved the Queensland TAB to inflate the odds of a short-priced favourite Lucy's Light, which won by seven lengths.

The syndicate set up legitimate betting accounts with several interstate betting firms including Centreracing, Sportingbet, Sportsbet, Betezy and Adelaide bookmaker Curly Seal.

These firms all offer punters Queensland tote odds on a dog race if requested.

The sting was executed on the second race, a stayers event with only six starters.

It was considered an easy assignment for top stayer Lucy's Light who opened up around Australia as a hot odds-on favourite at a $1.10 return for a $1 investment.

The syndicate backed Lucy's Light with the bookmakers who noticed the short odds and willingly held the bets because at that stage they were up for a minimal payout and stood to win well if the dog lost.

What bookmakers didn't know was that the syndicate would later place $15,000 on each of the other five dogs with Queensland's UNiTAB with only a minute before the race jumped. The bets were placed into phone accounts.

The $75,000 plunge pushed the price of Lucy's Light to $13 when the race started.

The Queensland win pool swelled to $88,645, compared to $12,292 on the Victorian TAB, where Lucy's Light paid $1.40, and $13,729 in NSW ($1.30).

Seal, who faced the largest payout, said he was seeking advice from stewards and his solicitor on the legality of the scheme.

"That's why I can't say too much, but, yes, I held some substantial bets on the winner," he said.

Sportsbet's Matthew Tripp, along with Sportingbet's Michael Sullivan, have reported the race to the Northern Territory Racing Commission.

Tripp said: "I've told all my punters I will pay out at $2 if the NTRC says something was untoward. If the NTRC says nothing is wrong, I will be quite willing to pay out at $13."

Centreracing manager Christian Sawyer has already paid the punters.

"These things happen, good luck to them. We know who the punters are and if they do it again we will simply bet back on the dog on their tote with their own money, thus losing nothing. By the look of things they had about $25,000 with bookies around Australia."

Besides Seal, the other bookmakers are estimated to have paid out between $10,000 to $30,000 each – Seal won't reveal his loss.

UNiTAB wagering manager Shane Adams said: "All rules were abided with."

[downbylaw]

Where did you find that article mate???? I was straight onto that yesterday as i was watching them go round but not betting. I thought something like that must have happened as it was such a huge pool!!!!!! 88 thou on a dog race at around 12 pm stands out like dogs balls that something has gone on.

[Horse Whisperer]

i got that article from the courier mail, it was on the front page of the paper here in brisbane today. who wants to form a syndicate like that :P

[downbylaw]

lol cant even say b a l l s what about basket ball

[xptdriver]

lol cant even say b a l l s what about basket ballYes the puritanical nature of the word police is ***** ridiculous.. I am sure that a lot of the old hard heads that frequent this joint are easily offended by words such as mymumusedtosaybluddyallthetime, and she is now 75 (scuse the lack of spaces, I will BEAT this horrible thing) and and the colloquial for boys bits ******** I cant believe that this crap thing censors the correct name of body parts... can you beleive that GARBAGE ..SHAME SHAME SHAME as Derryn used to say.. Has the religious right all of a sudden taken over this site? Pat Robertson are you there?

gimme a break and let's get a bit real.. censorship has reached a new low,,

Yet there are no problems with people pontificating and degrading others and their methods, complete with 2nd grade standard grammar and punctuation... Some here, I am sure, do not know what a paragraph is in a long post.. yet we have the pleasure of reading the pearls these people have to say.. albeit most of it absolute garbage.. but can't use the Australian form of the language, which would not offend the ladies at the CWA.. but obviously upsets hard nosed punters ...Pathetic really

[boxhead]

Yes the puritanical nature of the word police is f arkin ridiculous.. I am sure that a lot of the old hard heads that frequent this joint are easily offended by words such as bl uddy and rse and the colloquial for ******************************

gimme a break and let's get a bit real.. censorship has reached a new low,,

Yet there are no problems with people pontificating and degrading others and their methods, complete with 2nd grade standard grammar and punctuation... Some here, I am sure, do not know what a paragraph is in a long post.. yet we have the pleasure of reading the pearls these people have to say.. albeit most of it absolute garbage.. but can't use the Australian form of the language, which would not offend the ladies at the CWA.. but obviously upsets hard nosed punters ...Pathetic really
Agree X; The country is going down the shute.

[xptdriver]

Yes the puritanical nature of the word police is far kin ridiculous.. I am sure that a lot of the old hard heads that frequent this joint are easily offended by words such as mymumusedtosaybluddyallthetime, and she is now 75 (scuse the lack of spaces, I will BEAT this horrible thing) and and the colloquial for boys bits **** icicles I cant believe that this crap thing censors the correct name of body parts... can you beleive that GARBAGE ..SHAME SHAME SHAME as Derryn used to say.. Has the religious right all of a sudden taken over this site? Pat Robertson are you there?

gimme a break and let's get a bit real.. censorship has reached a new low,,

Yet there are no problems with people pontificating and degrading others and their methods, complete with 2nd grade standard grammar and punctuation... Some here, I am sure, do not know what a paragraph is in a long post.. yet we have the pleasure of reading the pearls these people have to say.. albeit most of it absolute garbage.. but can't use the Australian form of the language, which would not offend the ladies at the CWA.. but obviously upsets hard nosed punters ...Pathetic really

The really bad word that has been censored by the police is the word ****.. how stupid

why cant i write the word ****?

[Moderator 3]

Yet there are no problems with people pontificating and degrading others and their methods
Don't worry. If our forum computer program could automatically censor these posts we would. Instead time - and money - is spent in moderating them.

Moderator.

[xptdriver]

Moderator

see above... why cant I write the word that is another word for examination... it is rather silly

[Moderator 3]

test

That is fixed up.

[xptdriver]

I am just putting my intestines back in after I split my sides laughing at that one

[Horse Whisperer]

what about blocking posts of ppl that go completely off topic :P
jk, but seriously what do you guys think of what these fellas did??

[xptdriver]

what about blocking posts of ppl that go completely off topic :P
jk, but seriously what do you guys think of what these fellas did??

Pretty clever indeed... One of the blokes who got stung is not a happy chappy, and is looking at a way out (how unusual for a book) .. But if they are gunna offer Best Tote or Unitab odds, they do that to attract business.. so stiff, they were outsmarted by a group of legends.. and must pay IMHO

By offering best tote, it really says how pathetic the books are in general.. they are betting huge % (those not offereing best tote) whilst others have to offer 116% books to get business.. pretty ordinary, they obvioulsy dont have any blood in their veins... I have taken ALL my business away from the books and am using the tote and Betfair... and am much happier about it...

Why did I move away from the books... one reason... that whinger in the territory, who failed to do his form about 12 months ago and got stung in Brisbane and then screamed the house down because he was left with a big liability on the race.. In the end there was nothing ever proved that was untoward about THAT RACE, but that did it for me... and some of these rogues, turn you off if you are even remotely successful and take a few bob from em... I choose to put my turnover elsewhere, and whinging about being stung on a dog race, does not do them any favours with me.. I won't be going back

Moderator how about allowing the actual name of the animal this part of your site is about to actually appear on the screen *shakes head*

[BJ]

The way I see it, if they only won $200,000, they must have only bet about $22,000 on the favourite. If this dog didn't win, presumably they would have received odds of about $6.5 so their liability for the race was no more than $25,000.

Whilst they still could have lost out plenty, essentially they backed a $1.30 dog at odds of $8.
Certainly one way to get value. If it is not there, make it you***lf.

So on this subject, is there anybody that offers best tote on the dog races? If there is, I doubt they will be in business for long.

[Sportz]

Well, at the moment, believe it or not, r s e is being censored. How dumb is that on a h o r s e racing forum???

Moderators, can you fix that up please, because it's going to make things pretty difficult around here if we can't use the word h o r s e.

horse

[Chrome Prince]

We know who the punters are and if they do it again we will simply bet back on the dog on their tote with their own money, thus losing nothing. By the look of things they had about $25,000 with bookies around Australia."

UNiTAB wagering manager Shane Adams said: "All rules were abided with."


This is no sting, this is smart investing.

The bookies are running a business, they should have this covered from all angles.

They got it wrong, not the punters, and should have bet back on the tote after noticing strange TAB fluctuations (inflated pools).

There is no reason for further investigation, the bookies are crying foul....what about the punters who have to cop books of 140% plus on a regular basis.

Wear it fellas, you got some payback!

[Shaun]

I agree they found a loophole and used it....nothing wrong with that.....where in the rules does it say you can not back the whole field with different bet sizes.....it is up to the bookies to see what can and did happen....i bet it won't happen again.....i wonder if it was the same crew that did the sting with the place betting a few years back....that was also on the Qtab on the dogs.....i say good on them.

[Sportz]

If any bookmaker is dumb enough or lazy enough to simply use UNITAB figures and not cover these loopholes, then they get what they deserve.

Funny that this hasn't happened before, but I guess they'd only do it if they were pretty sure the dog was going to win.

How much did they actually pay out to win this money though? They bet $75000 on the other 5 runners and they would have got back about $65000 if any of them had won, but what about the winner? I didn't see anything about how much money they'd actually bet on the winner???

[AB51]

Crafty betting scheme leaves bookies in the doghouse

Gary Keep and Chris Bassani
21dec05
AN ingenious legal betting sting at the Gold Coast greyhounds ripped more than $200,000 from off-course bookmakers throughout Australia yesterday.



A NSW betting syndicate legitimately involved the Queensland TAB to inflate the odds of a short-priced favourite Lucy's Light, which won by seven lengths.

The syndicate set up legitimate betting accounts with several interstate betting firms including Centreracing, Sportingbet, Sportsbet, Betezy and Adelaide bookmaker Curly Seal.

These firms all offer punters Queensland tote odds on a dog race if requested.

The sting was executed on the second race, a stayers event with only six starters.

It was considered an easy assignment for top stayer Lucy's Light who opened up around Australia as a hot odds-on favourite at a $1.10 return for a $1 investment.

The syndicate backed Lucy's Light with the bookmakers who noticed the short odds and willingly held the bets because at that stage they were up for a minimal payout and stood to win well if the dog lost.

What bookmakers didn't know was that the syndicate would later place $15,000 on each of the other five dogs with Queensland's UNiTAB with only a minute before the race jumped. The bets were placed into phone accounts.

The $75,000 plunge pushed the price of Lucy's Light to $13 when the race started.

The Queensland win pool swelled to $88,645, compared to $12,292 on the Victorian TAB, where Lucy's Light paid $1.40, and $13,729 in NSW ($1.30).

Seal, who faced the largest payout, said he was seeking advice from stewards and his solicitor on the legality of the scheme.

"That's why I can't say too much, but, yes, I held some substantial bets on the winner," he said.

Sportsbet's Matthew Tripp, along with Sportingbet's Michael Sullivan, have reported the race to the Northern Territory Racing Commission.

Tripp said: "I've told all my punters I will pay out at $2 if the NTRC says something was untoward. If the NTRC says nothing is wrong, I will be quite willing to pay out at $13."

Centreracing manager Christian Sawyer has already paid the punters.

"These things happen, good luck to them. We know who the punters are and if they do it again we will simply bet back on the dog on their tote with their own money, thus losing nothing. By the look of things they had about $25,000 with bookies around Australia."

Besides Seal, the other bookmakers are estimated to have paid out between $10,000 to $30,000 each – Seal won't reveal his loss.

UNiTAB wagering manager Shane Adams said: "All rules were abided with."

Brilliant is that not what punting is all about, beat the bookie or the tote.

[Horse Whisperer]

"These things happen, good luck to them. We know who the punters are and if they do it again we will simply bet back on the dog on their tote with their own money, thus losing nothing. By the look of things they had about $25,000 with bookies around Australia."

Besides Seal, the other bookmakers are estimated to have paid out between $10,000 to $30,000 each – Seal won't reveal his loss."

they are estimating they had $25000 on the dog itself but seal wont reveal his loss so it may be a bit more.

[Horse Whisperer]

it gets better....

Sting punters pocket almost $1m
Chris Bassani, Greyhounds
22dec05
AN insider from the bookmaking ranks close to the Gold Coast greyhound betting sting believes the mystery punters netted nearly $1 million.

The man, who asked not to be named, said: "They (bookies) were taken for a lot of money. They just don't want to look like dills."

Adelaide bookmaker Curly Seal appeared the hardest hit, admitting that he had taken a loss close to $600,000. "If you said (I lost) $600,000 that wouldn't be far off the mark," Seal said.

"The most I lost was on an Epsom in Sydney one year. But that was a big-betting race and it didn't hurt because I gambled and lost.

"That was legitimate. It wasn't anything like Tuesday. That was a total debacle. I've been stung before but not like that – never on a dog whose price wasn't correct."

Seal said two established clients, one in Adelaide and the other in Sydney, placed the bets. On Tuesday, the pair's syndicate backed odds-on favourite Lucy's Light with at least five bookmaking firms around Australia and agreed to be paid on final Queensland tote odds.

Lucy's Light was showing $1.10 in the field of six when the bets where placed.

The syndicate then bet $15,000 on each of the other five runners 45 seconds before the race was to start.

By the time the phone account operator read back the bets and with a natural 30-second delay for the bets to register, the race had started, showing Lucy's Light at $1.10.

After she won easily, the tote updated and her dividend drifted to $13 (12-1).

Seal has spoken to South Australian racing authorities to find out if he is legally bound to pay out at $13.

The Courier-Mail's source said $57,000 was placed on Lucy's Light with Seal.

At $13, that would be a $741,000 payout.

Shane Adams at UNiTAB confirmed five win bets were placed on Lucy's Light's rivals 30 seconds before the start. One punter made all five bets, Adams said.

The biggest shock was the amount of money Seal stands to lose, with associates describing him as a "much-loved character".

"To think this could happen to Curly, he wouldn't hurt a fly," one source said.

"It's real shame this happened to him of all people."

On Tuesday, Northern Territory bookmaking firms Betezy, Sportingbet and Sportsbet appealed to Northern Territory Racing Commission on whether they had to pay out at $13.

By yesterday, both Sportingbet and Sportsbet decided not to wait for the NTRC decision and paid out.

"They are good clients, they got us and good luck to them. It's a nice Christmas bonus," said manager Matthew Tripp of Sportsbet.

Betezy has offered varying payouts if the NTRC rules against the punters, but has agreed to accept the loss.

The bookmakers won't give the names of the punters though Ryan Kay, of Betezy, admitted a circle of punters did a similar thing with a place pool at the Penrith trots six months ago.

"There was a hot favourite. They backed the rest of the field at the last minute on the NSW tote after backing it with the bookies. It paid about $6 or $7," he said.

"This time our firm won't take the full brunt of the sting as we have a $10,000 maximum payout on greyhound races for each client.

"I will add that a few accounts backed the dog, however."

Tripp remembers the Penrith race and said "the NTRC then advised us to cop it sweet and pay".

Kay has said Betezy will look into offering tote odds about trots and dogs races that have small pools.

"There may be something we have to do about it," he said. "We will see."