Sport of Kings

[Golly]

HI All,

Received in the mail today an offer from the sport of Kings Racing, Inviting me to join their Millionaires Club. Anyboby have any thoughts on these guys ?
Any Comment !!!!

Cheers, Golly

[trench digger]

Steer Clear. Same as JJ Williams,Equos Turf &Simon Marshall. Speacilise in ratings but refuse over a number of years to be monitored by Punters Choice.

[TESTAROSSA]

Golly ,

I had a free one month trial of the millionaires club a while ago.

What they do is send all of the races with there ratings and prices to your email on the morning of the races , what you do is back any horse in the top 5 or so that is better then the price reccommended by them.

So in reality you could be backing 4 or more horses in one race although they did show a ok profit in that one month i used , but i still wouldn't recommend it.

[dusty dude]

Everyone seems to be talking about Punters Choice as if they are the be all and end all for knowing what works and doesn't work. Aren't they just a very well promoted business that is out there to make a profit?Why should tipping services etc. give their information for free in advance to an organisation that has set themselves up as an independent watchdog but is out there to make a profit out of monitoring them?
Who knows where the free information ends up or who ends up using it if it is good?
Punters Choice is not a government regulated horse racing consumer watchdog.

[thekey]

Having tried this service previously (shared costs with a couple of mates) around spring carnival last year I have a few observations.

It is basically an overlay betting approach where you back a maximum of three horses per race as long as it does't exceed a certain outlay limit.

They include the amount to stake for each selection.

Also like to tip their office specials which are to be backed differently to their ratings.

The biggest problem is they rate every race everywhere. Bris, Syd, Melb, Adel, Gold Coast. You would go crazy keeping track of prices in 5 venues over an afternoon.

Also they were very reluctant to disclose how much it would cost for full membership once the trial period was over. I believe it is very expensive- 000's per year.

If anyone is interested I could try to send a copy of one of the ratings sheets.

[dolly007]

I know how much will it cost around $16000-$18000. Once they think that their tip sheet perform well on that particular saturday they will assume you going as well as them. Then they will try to give you not good enough false office special. Their target profit is around $1000 per race. Generally speaking, they can natch up from $1500-$5000 per day base on $1000 per race, sometime u will lose $1500-$2000. Because their profit is so huge u need at least $20000+ as your bank to do this type of betting. If someone know how to do don scott type weight and class ratings then you can price your winner yourself .

[becareful]

At that price the only ones in the "millionaires club" will be the people selling the tips! You would think that they could at least afford to update their website occassionally.

Testarossa - Just wondering why you wouldn't recommend it if it made a profit? Was it because of the price or you just didn't like their betting methodology?

Personally it sounds like one of the better services, except for the price! At least they give you definite prices for each runner and they seem to be profitable based on the comments here?

[thekey]

I don't think they have very many members, as they are always offering "free" trials if you ring their 1902 number

[dolly007]

Wow not many needed as you have mentioned thekey cause if theu got only 20 members that is enough ($18000*20)=$360000 net profit tax free per year need not to invest anything except u know how to logically price the main chances in each race. One questions for thekey have u ever try to guess how they work out the rating and how they price for each horse in each race.

[thekey]

Dolly,

They use weight and time ratings but also supposedly info received from stables etc.
Not sure how you convert this to kgs?
Anyway, each horse is rated to 0.1 kg accuracy and then those within 5kg of top rated are priced to to an 85% market.
Not exactly sure how the ratings are converted to prices but some analysis shows that it fits a negative exponential curve.
eg decimal = exponential (-0.2*margin from top)

You then sum up the decimals and do some divisions to get your rated price & percentages.

Why don't they have to pay tax? Surely this is a business.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: thekey on 2002-08-20 23:12 ]</font>

[TESTAROSSA]

On 2002-08-20 21:11, becareful wrote:
Testarossa - Just wondering why you wouldn't recommend it if it made a profit? Was it because of the price or you just didn't like their betting methodology?


Bit of both actually Becareful.

The price is way to much , you would have to make $18000 before you start showing a profit
, and the betting methodology is definetely not for me.

I actually had a lengthy discussion on phone with the owner of sport of kings , Steve Monaghan i think his name was , just asking a few questions about how to use the sheets , wasn't very impressed with how it was done , but thats just me , for others it might work wonders.

Coincidentally when i was talking to him he mentioned that later that night at the Canterbury night meeting the WINNER of the Golden Slipper was going around , it's name LUPENTA , told me to get on no matter what price (finished 5th i think at about odds on) and i think it had 2 or 3 more runs without winning and thats the last i have seen it , so that didn't exactly enthuse me about continuing with the millionaires club one iota.

[becareful]

Dolly - they would be paying tax on any income from selling tips as it is a business. The first 10% goes to taxman as GST and, assuming they are running as a company, around 1/3 of the rest as income tax. So out of that $360000 about $140000 goes straight to taxman. That raises the question of why bother selling the tips if they are so good? Based on the figures quoted here of $1000 per race as a target you would assume that they should be able to generate $20,000 per week through betting on their own tips. That equates to $1,000,000 PER YEAR TAX FREE - now why bother with the hastle of customers, tax, etc when you can earn that much just using the tips yourself?

Testarossa - thanks for the reply - agree the price is way too much - if you can afford that then you probably don't need to buy the tips!

[Rain Lover]

If you see any of these systems, tips,ratings etc. ask one simple question.
"If it's as good as they say, why are they flogging it instead of just backing their own selections?".
The answer is, of course, they make far more money selling the system to gullible punters than by following a "foolproof" system. Steer clear of all of them - if it was any good it would not be on sale, I'll give you the tip.

[Golly]

Thank you everyone, As always very useful information. I hadn't heard of these guys and their profit expectations were, as you would expext, very good. I was interested to get some feedback from our forum. 18000.00
Boy what could i do with that !!!
Good punting everyone.
Cheers, Golly

[Equine Investor]

On 2002-08-23 00:03, Rain Lover wrote:
If you see any of these systems, tips,ratings etc. ask one simple question.
"If it's as good as they say, why are they flogging it instead of just backing their own selections?".
The answer is, of course, they make far more money selling the system to gullible punters than by following a "foolproof" system. Steer clear of all of them - if it was any good it would not be on sale, I'll give you the tip.


Rain Lover, I do agree when we are talking about systems costing thousands of dollars, however, there are ratings services etc at reasonable prices which are well worth investing in. The main difference is in sorting out the scams from the real deal. This only comes from solid investigation and proven results.
I actually do use my own selections and back them, but I have a few select customers using the same system, but at a reasonable cost and with a money back guarantee. I won't and don't advertise it here as it would be against the terms of use of the forum and most people here are already using systems they have devised themselves.

[Rain Lover]

That's where we disagree EI. I have a selection method that shows a reasonable return on effort & money. But I wouldn't presume to sell to anyone as it picks more losers than winners.

[Equine Investor]

Don't get me wrong Rain Lover, I do agree that there are numerous scams about. I don't market my system aggressively and only have a few customers who have approached me. It does pick more losers than winners, but the average dividend is around $7 so it makes a good level stakes profit over a few months - not every week.

There are many people who, due to work or family committments don't have the time to devote to their form study or systems and still enjoy a bet. It is mainly those people that can benefit from someone else doing the legwork provided the service is at a reasonable and affordable cost.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Equine Investor on 2002-08-24 16:23 ]</font>

[seamerthechamp]

Hi mates:
Why do you think Simon Marshall have to ride
again in a dangerous job to make a living,
if he is sucessful with his useless tipping
services why dont he sit back and enjoy life
instead of come back out and putting his life
on the line .
cheers!

[Equine Investor]

seamerthechamp, from the information I have, Simon Marshall only put his name and face to his tipping service, which performed badly. There is a guy behind it all in QLD, who also is responsible for about three other failing tipping services.
I think it may have just been bad judgement by Simon.

[trench digger]

Equine Investor,

I was silly enough to sign/pay up for Simon Marshalls service.

I spoke to him (it sounded very much like him) a number of times to question the poor results.

Punters choice since told me he is only the front man for the service and as you say some bloke in QLD runs the show and several others like it.

Often SM would "tip" something pre race on SKY aginst the selections his 'service" gave the same day.

[Equine Investor]

On 2002-08-26 16:13, trench digger wrote:
Equine Investor,

I was silly enough to sign/pay up for Simon Marshalls service.


..Not silly, trenchdigger. Although you should have perhaps requested verified past results - many have fallen victim to this service. Surely, Simon should have enough brains to research something properly before lending his good name and reputation to it. I would have thought people have to be accountable for poor performances these days.
You may well have been mislead as they did advertise it was HIS tips he was giving out because of his "links" with insider information from trainers etc.


I spoke to him (it sounded very much like him) a number of times to question the poor results.


...I would be curious to know his responses to your questions.


Punters choice since told me he is only the front man for the service and as you say some bloke in QLD runs the show and several others like it.

Often SM would "tip" something pre race on SKY aginst the selections his 'service" gave the same day.


Punters Choice is a little biased when it comes to putting their own systems under the microscope, but definitely worth the investment as it gives an unbiased guide to other systems not owned by equestrian publishing.

As I say SM was conned to some extent, but should have known better, with his knowledge of racing. Having said that - jockeys and trainers are very often the worst tipsters. Just look at the number of times a top hoop opts for a different horse over the Spring Carnival, only to have made the wrong choice. Lee Freedman is probably the best at giving punters an unbiased assessment of his horses chances and Gai Waterhouse the worst!
:wink: