Credit card cash transfers to online gambling sites

[partypooper]

I'm feeling really naughty tonight, so just wanna vent my feelings about Westpac Bank treating CC deposits to a so called gambling site (eg Sportsbet etc) as a CASH advance,..... this is absolutely discraceful, most banks treat it as a purchase (which is of course in our favour) they (the Bank) still receive a commision (presumably) from the trader so why hit US again???? if you are with Westpac write to them as I have done and express your dissatisfaction, the more of us that do so the better the chance of a u-turn!

If they will not relent then cancel your card and TELL THEM WHY

[crash]

I hope it's only Westpac that do that!

[AngryPixie]

Umm. Credit card deposits ... gambling!! :eek:

[partypooper]

Crash, as far as I know its only westpac, but Citibank will not let you deposit to a so-called gambling site at all, CBA, and ANZ no probs at all it is treated as a purchase. anyone know about any other cards?

[stugots]

but it is a cash advance

unless im missing something

[partypooper]

stugots, no it is NOT a cash advance, it's a purchase that's the point, Westpac treat it as a cash advance so you pay 1&1/2% charge instantly + interest from day 1, ***edited*** is the only word for that as the Trader (Sportsbet etc) pay them also a % just the same as a purchase.

CBA & ANZ ( and maybe other banks?) treat it correctly as a purchase, so you have up to 55 interest free etc.

============

As what is occurring is not breaking the law, for legal reasons we need to be very careful about any words used to vent one's dissatisfaction. Moderator.

[AngryPixie]

Technically I reckon it is a cash advance. What have you purchased? :(

[crash]

Crap. By your logic Angry, anything purchased by credit card is [technically] a cash advance!

Buying soap or buying a $100 block of punting money with someone is a purchase, not a cash out [where is the 'cash'?].

[partypooper]

As what is occurring is not breaking the law, for legal reasons we need to be very careful about any words used to vent one's dissatisfaction. Moderator.

My mistake there moderator, appologies.

Angry, crash is correct, think about it; how many things you could pay for with a cc (I'm talking about "services") where you don't actually receive any goods???
A cash advance is where you walk into the bank and draw cash from your CC, and walk out with the readies, (or ATM or Net Bank of course)

[AngryPixie]

No a cash advance is a personal loan against your credit card regardless as to whether you've recieved cash in hand or not. Your borrowing money from the bank to gamble with. You've recieved no product or service.

Regardless of the semantics, if one is now doing it they all will follow suit.

[partypooper]

Angry, many thousands of people do not agree with you but that's ok, just as a matter of "interest" (no pun intended) who do you bank with?

[Shaun]

I think this will only work with Australian sports books but they could introduce BPay service as they have with the Tabs this would solve the problem or create a bigger one.

[Floydyboy]

Banks will be Banks ............I dont have a credit card (thank god) only a visa debit card and if I did have one, I (as in me personally ) wouldnt be using it for the punt .

[crash]

No a cash advance is a personal loan against your credit card regardless as to whether you've recieved cash in hand or not. Your borrowing money from the bank to gamble with. You've recieved no product or service.

Regardless of the semantics, if one is now doing it they all will follow suit.

Ok, so I buy a video player at my local Harvey Normans with my credit card. Am I borrowing money from the bank? Of course I am. It's called a CREDIT CARD for OBVIOUS reasons. Why? Because EVERY purchase is done with BORROWED money!!! Not to be confused with a cash advance, because then I'm borrowing CASH [the real folding stuff], not goods or services.

Oh deary me, why was I born into THIS world!!!

[AngryPixie]

Poop

I've no doubt that many thousands don't agree. It's whether the banks and the legislators do that's the issue. I've nothing else to add other than agreeing with Floydboy below.

Banks will be Banks ............I dont have a credit card (thank god) only a visa debit card and if I did have one, I (as in me personally ) wouldnt be using it for the punt .

That's the cleverist thing anybody has said in this thread. Any talk of using credit for the punt should be stopped immediately to protect the weak willed.

[AngryPixie]

Not to be confused with a cash advance, because then I'm borrowing CASH [the real folding stuff], not goods or services.
If you transfer money from your credit card to a savings account you've made a cash advance. You've recieved no cash in hand but the money is there for you to use at a later date. If you transfer money from a credit card to a betting agency again no cash has changed hands but the money is there for you to use at a later date. You've consumed no product and received no service. All you've done is given the betting agency the authority to hold the money in proxy for you to use at a later date.

Oh deary me, why was I born into THIS world!!!
:D

I'm concerned others may be getting the indication that it's ok to bet on credit. IT'S NOT!!! So I'll contribute no further.

All the best

[Chrome Prince]

People buy food on credit.
People buy petrol on credit.
People pay their mortgages from a credit card.
Pay for weddings
Pay for cars
Pay for holidays
Pay for computers

I see no difference in paying for gambling via credit card.
Whether you pay for the punt via cash, direct deposit, credit card, if you have a problem, no matter how you pay for it, you'll be in trouble.

Punting via credit card can be done for many reasons (partypooper knows one), including convenience and international wagering. Some sites, that is the only way you can get on.

The question is not how you fund it, the question is if you can handle it responsibly.

[Shaun]

If my bank trys that on i will go the the newsagent and buy $500 worth of lotto tickets with the CC card then take them to court for discrimination.

[partypooper]

Banks will be Banks ............I dont have a credit card (thank god) only a visa debit card and if I did have one, I (as in me personally ) wouldnt be using it for the punt .

Chrome, glad you're with me mate, but I'm not going to spill the beans any further, I bet you smiled at the above eh? hee hee!

Crash, not too many times we see Exactly eye to eye but in this case, BRAIN power prevails........

One last ditch effort to give that 1 ton penny a shove,
I used my credit card 5 times today:

(1) I PURCHASED a betting package (tips) from a well known racing site, I receive , well actually NOTHING, (not having a go at any PARTICULAR racing site here)
What I mean is I'm only receiving information that may be good, it may be bad, or I might decide not to use it even though I've paid for it.

(2) I PURCHASE a racing book from a well known gambling site, (they promise to send it by express mail)

(3) I deposit $1000 to my Sportsbet account, they credit my account with $1000, (they receive $1000 cash from my bank less a % commission) but I may decide not to use it, and maybe withdraw the amount later, but if I do use it I may receive no cash whatsoever??

(4) I buy 10 slick picks from the local newsagent, and keep my fingers crossed (11,000,000 to 1, ouch)

(5) I buy a $2 sim card for my mobile + a $300 credit. (Vodafone)

Now, in all cases the 5 merchants here receive CASH from my Bank, I do not receive ANY cash, but...........

my bank (I mean literally) recieves a % commission from all 5 of those Merchants on my purchases, so they are already making money.

Now IF I choose to pay off the outstanding balance b4 the due date I will not pay the bank any interest, but theyve still made money. If I do not then they will also charge me interest.

IF YOURE WITH WESTPAC however,

(1) gambling site, youre hit with 1&1/2% fee instantly + interest at around 16% from day 1, even though the service proved to be a dud so I didn't use it????

(2) Gambling site, its a BLUUDDY book, but I get hit with 1&1/2% fee instantly + interest from day 1, what's more the book never arrives!!!!!

(3) Same 1&1/2% fee instantly + interest from day 1, even though I decide not to have a bet this year.

(4) Same 1&1/2% fee instantly + interest from day 1, even though the missus washed me jeans and the tickets were disintegrated, so not even a chance to win the Mil.

(5) the sim card went the same way as the lotto tickets, theres a $300 credit there but I can't use it, or I may have CHOOSEN not to use it anyway.

Vodofone still gets their cash and the bank still gets their % commission and I still have to pay my credit card off regardless.

Floydyboy, Angry, nothing personal mates but keep going as you are please!!

As a last word I quote Chrome:
The question is not how you fund it, the question is if you can handle it responsibly

BUT, there is more than one way to SKIN a rabbit!

PPS, Angry, WHO do you bank with?

[AngryPixie]

PPS, Angry, WHO do you bank with?

A few different places but I've never held an account with Westpac. Don't quite see the relevance of the question.

I'm sure there are many people who use credit responsibly, but there are also many that don't. It's just a rule for me not to use it for the punt.

[Chrome Prince]

It's a good personal rule, I never use credit for anything at all myself.

Every week I see some people putting groceries on credit, and the very next week those same people have their card is declined, so they aren't paying it off.

I just don't think "gamblers" or "gambling" should be given the same predjudices here as in the general public perception.

I've never owned a credit card myself, because it's too much of a temptation, not gambling - just generally.

While my mates went out and got car finance for the latest VB Commodore, I saved my pennies and bought an EK Holden and got far more fun out of it, because I worked for it AND waited a long time for it ;)
When I sold it, it was worth more than I paid for it (wish I hadn't sold it now), when they sold their cars, they got just over half the showroom price and still owed money.

But that's off topic, sorry.

[Shaun]

Credit Cards are fine if used correctly, i pay for almost everything with the card, unless i can transfer the cash directly from my bank account as i do for paying all the bills.

Where i live we have 1 eftpos cash teller and a lot of times it is empty and i don't like getting cash from the Caltex over the counter unless i buy somthing (we live in a town of 900 people)

When i get the chance to go to our major town about 50km away it is not always pay week and i don't like to get large sums of cash out to do shopping and stuff so it all goes on the card.

The card gets paid off when the balance reaches about $1000 or before the interest kicks in, using the card in my situation makes life so much easier.

[partypooper]

aw, my appologies, i didn't realise the ignorance out there, even you Chrome, I'm amazed, but please all keep on as you are PLEASE, that is all I ask!

[Mark]

My 2 cents.

When I first opened my betfair a/c, many years ago, I tried to transfer money directly from my bank a/c (NAB) to Betfair. The transaction was blocked and after several attempts I rang the bank. I was told that the bank does not allow transfers to THAT kind of business. What kind of business I asked?, "you know, THAT kind of business". After a few minutes of useless argument and a few choice words on my behalf I realised I was not getting anywhere. So I purchased a bank cheque from the same bank with the same money and sent that to Betfair. see the difference??? As soon as the BF a/c was funded I closed my a/c with THAT bank. So in this case I was not permitted to spend my own money how I saw fit.

2 cents on my own Credit Card use.

Have been using them for years and put everything I can on them. Have always paid the full amount on time, so have never paid interest. Now I know they are not free, but with the points earned we have have had 2 return flights to New York, 1 to Europe, and will have enough to have another 2 to Europe next year.

[AngryPixie]

aw, my appologies, i didn't realise the ignorance out there, even you Chrome, I'm amazed, but please all keep on as you are PLEASE, that is all I ask!

Look at me I said I wasn't going to contribute any more :(

Poop, please resist the temptation to correct our ignorance in this thread. Unknown ignoramuses who don't need any more problems are here too.

[crash]

A couple of misconceptions mentioned in this thread about CC:

Party:
'(3) I deposit $1000 to my Sportsbet account, they credit my account with $1000, (they receive $1000 cash from my bank less a % commission) but I may decide not to use it, and maybe withdraw the amount later, but if I do use it I may receive no cash whatsoever??'

Any money going into ANY betting account is a purchase of 'credit'. Why? Because if you deposit say $100 into an empty TAB account, Sportingbet, Betfair etc. with on-line deposit facilities, you have purchased $100 worth of betting credit and you cannot withdraw it as cash from that betting account.

That $100 is credited into the account of the provider, not as believed, into your gambling account. You betting account will now show $100 credit [not $100 cash]. The $100 cash you have borrow from your CC is now in the provider's Bank account [earning interest] and a $100 betting 'credit' is in your betting account [the 'product' you purchased].

You MUST turn over $100 in bets before ANY withdrawal is possible. Even if you have a big win with a one-off 1st bet of $12 that snagged a $2000 trifecta. I found that out the hard way by experiencing that scenario first hand. I couldn't withdraw any money from the account. After some inquiries I found out I had to turn over another $88 worth of bets before I could withdraw any money at all!

The reasoning is quit simple: You would be able to avoid 'cash out' Bank fees, simply by using your CC to deposit into say a TAB account and then nip down to the local Pub tab and withdraw it in cash! :-))

Misconception no. 2 motioned by a couple of posters so far:

It is illegal to sell or purchase over-the-counter gambling products from Newsagents by CC. That's why you will often have to pay for your newspapers etc. at one counter, and you scratchies and Tattslotto tickets at another counter. You also cannot use a CC at a Pub tab or a Club or Pub pokies venue to get a CC cash advance out of their ATM. It's illegal in all states [as far as I know].

My local 'big town', Bainsdale [15ks away] has a large tobacconist/variety store that also sells lotto and scratchies etc. but obviously no separate payment facilities. I tried to pay for some purchases there last week [not their gambling products] with a CC and was told: 'Sorry, because we sell gambling products it's illegal for us to accept credit cards'.

[Moderator 3]

Please note this thread will be closed shortly.

It's not like giving some tips on the horses and we cannot justify the time involved for a moderator to check every few minutes to see for example that nothing potentially defamatory about a bank has been posted.

[Shaun]

Crash

You are wrong about the turnover amounts, yes you need to turn some of that money over but this is to show that you are not using the account for laundering.

I to had this problem when i put money in to my old NSW account and then was asked by friends to go to the pub for a few bets so i got the money out there, got a letter saying my account would be closed if i did that again.

[crash]

Shaun,
I was pointing out what's legal and what isn't. If you managed to get the deposit out, whoever gave it to you was doing an illegal act [as the letter you got pretty much pointed out].

Moderator,
Hopefully, pointing out CC myths regarding CC deposits into Betting accounts is surly valuable punting information, certainly horse racing specific and nothing to do with slander of [any] Banks fees or charges[?] It's mainly just letting punters know the actual legalize of betting account deposits that many punters obviously are unaware off.

[Racer]

It's a good personal rule, I never use credit for anything at all myself.

CP, you could have a Free Visa CC for the convenience but NOT the credit
(No Fees) - I would far prefer to pay anything via the superb little Aussie invention called Bpay, but there are places who have not caught up with this century yet. (Actually it's because they make a goddamn fortune via CC's).

For those places that require CC payment - I find out the total cost, of the item plus any sending costs, Bpay that amount to my CC account first -
Only then do I use the CC - result is, No fees whatsoever on any transactions - financial institutions make Billions, in many cases because
people don't quite realize what the possibles are.

Education dept. should dump the 'History' lessons for all bar the one in a million who intends to be a Historian, and instead introduce a lesson called
'Money' - Who the hell ever got asked in 'REAL' life what happened in 1066 -
More to the point, who cares ! - It's 2066 we want to know things about - such as, 'Will it be any easier to find winners ?"

Regards.

[partypooper]

b4 you do, just wanna add that I didn't mean any PERSON was ignorant, only some are ignorant to the benefits of using the RIGHT cards in the RIGHT way.

Crash you are wrong you can have the cash paid back into your cc account, but the bank does not refund the fee or the interest so far.

Mark,...... right on mate,........... Shaun you're nearly there.

[crash]

Racer,

I don't reckon the world as we know it will make it to betting in 2066.

We are on the path of creative destruction I think. We'll be betting with beads in our local Rock Cavern on flies and cockroaches crawling up the wall!!

[crash]

b4 you do, just wanna add that I didn't mean any PERSON was ignorant, only some are ignorant to the benefits of using the RIGHT cards in the RIGHT way.

Crash you are wrong you can have the cash paid back into your cc account, but the bank does not refund the fee or the interest so far.

Mark,...... right on mate,........... Shaun you're nearly there.

Try it starting out with an EMPTY betting account . Put in a CC deposit and try to get it out without betting the amount deposited. Failure assured!

[partypooper]

Sportingbet at least will pay it back into your CC

[crash]

If you read my post again Party, I was talking about trying to get 'cash' out of your betting account. In your hand or into a Savings account [where you can then withdraw the cash]. In other words, trying to avoid a 'cash out' banking fee by being 'clever'.

[Chrome Prince]

You don't need credit if you have a debit visa :D

It's the credit part I personally don't like, not the rewards, points, fees, or anything else.
That's my personal preference.

[Racer]

Racer,

I don't reckon the world as we know it will make it to betting in 2066.

We are on the path of creative destruction I think. We'll be betting with beads in our local Rock Cavern on flies and cockroaches crawling up the wall!!
Don't worry about that Crash - With man's ingenuity and innovativeness
they will still be loving a bet in 3066 - I mean there are only two things in life a bloke will never want to part with - betting and xxxxxxx.
The ONLY one single thing that could get in the way of 3066 are these goddamn fundamentalist religious PITA's of any kind or type.

[partypooper]

Just trying to get this one in b4 we get the chop, I have 5 credit cards use them all, all the time I have never paid a cent in interest or fees ever, I don't even pay for the card!!

[crash]

Well never try a CC deposit into a TAB account Party. The TAB fee is $3.30 [I think] for accepting your deposit! I only ever did it once but never again.

[partypooper]

Crash, thanks for that tip I didn't know that.
RE: the withdrawal back to your CC, got ya! you are correct.
But my point was that I could deposit the funds, cop the fee and interest so far, but don't use the amount , have it paid back in fact but still cop the fees etc. (with certain banks)

[Shaun]

CP

I will agree with you there i have both a Visa Credit Card and a Visa Debit Card and until i got a Credit Card thats all i used was the debit card and it can be used exactly the same way as the CC i am wondering if they would still charge the fees as they do with a CC somthing i will have to try.

A lot of banks don't provide a debit card i know Commonwealth Bank is one of them thats why i changed banks at the time because of this reason they would rather you use a CC.

[stugots]

now ive read everything

if anyone can care to explain with any lucidity how a cash withdrawal from an atm which is then deposited to a betting account is any different from a direct transfer from said credit card to a betting account (obviously other than being able to withdraw the cash out straight away), then well, holey dooly, dress me up as granma & call me betty