Betfair, genuine help requested

[partypooper]

G'Day all, I am reliably informed that while I've been away betfair is allowed in WA? ok so warts an all tell me why/what/how should I make the change?

I usually make about 10-15 VERY large place bets a week (best tote) and about the same number of "fairly large win bets" @ usually top fluc. most of the bets are placed b4 racing because of other (work) commitments.

I also make a number of ....well less significant win & place bets (most of the time) @ best tote or top fluc.

I ask the other members of this forum, can I benefit by switching to betfair and how??

[schonegg]

pp, if you're taking Top fluc then you can look at Betfair's new SP option. You can set a Limit for the Starting price. I do it especially if I know I'll be out and not punting 'live' so I'll enter my bets with Limits in the morning. You may need a good estimate of what the odds will be to set your Limit, but for Mel/Syd races IAS normally have their odds first thing Saturday morning.
In UK races you could set Limits for Place bets as well.

[partypooper]

schonegg, this all VERY new to me, but that's the sort of stuff I'm after, thanks a lot, VERY interesting. I presume what you mean by setting limits is that you can stipulate a minimum price? at this stage I'm still not really interested in the laying side of things ..... YET!

[Bhagwan]

Hi party .
Here are a couple of tools that are very helpful in getting your bets on more smoothly & can bet below the Betfair min amount.

Bet Trader Pro (Free) Google RacingTraders.

Betfair Rapid (Free)

Fairbot (15 day free trial) this is excellent & worth the price.

Some of the Betfair prices are amazing, sometimes double & triple to that of say the TAB.
For instance I got $8.80 for a horse that was showing $3.60 on the TAB at jump time & it won.

It is also an interesting exercise to look at the TAB fav at 30 secs till jump then compare its price to Betfair.
The difference can be 50-200% difference

I would maybe compare the Bookie price with betfair & go from there.

Cheers.

[stugots]

pp ive been using betfairs sp service for both win & lay betting for a while now without any problems

couple of things as it sounds that, like myself, you will often need to place bets early & therefore use the sp option -

-you can set a minimum price for your win bets & a max odds/liability limit for lay bets

-sp is not available for place betting

-sp is not available for all aussie meets - eg 'qr' meets & the 2nd meetings at
prov/country tracks not covered, although i hear that will change once demand is met

-theres no guarantee that all of your larger bet would be matched using sp, which could be a tad disappointing if the nag salutes, but if your betting in the short end of the market at major meets i would think this unlikely to happen very often if at all

theres probably a few more issues but thats all i can come up with this early in the day:)

[jfc]

If you use Betfair SP without a limit then you can expect to get fleeced.

If you use Betfair SP with a limit then you can expect to get fleeced. But not as much.

BSPs have been matched @~1.01.

So all a fleecer has to do is offer lays much lower than true odds.

On occasions those will be matched by the Betfair SP algorithm.

Particularly for large SP bets.

[Michal]

From your description you arent going to benefit much at all. As you place your bets on well before betting starts unless you get a bet bot of some description then you will have have to set a price before hand. Set it too high and you wount be matched set it too low you lose out, factor in the 2-5% commision Betfair charges EACH WIN. Depending on how large your VERY large bet is you may not get it all matched.


Sure there are some very good overs compared to TAB but unless you can sit there and pick them out and of load your bets onto the TAB if you can get a getter price there and I see that quite often although most times you get better on betfair. You can also take advantage of the SP when available but I would geather that you wouldnt quite enjoy sitting there and put that bet there and that bet over here at SP and that bet here at this price ........ consisntency is where you catch the swing atleast once every swing as soon as you start to get too trickie you will miss out here and then when you come here you will miss out there and ........

A bet bot would solve most of the matching problems but wount compare the price between what is available and it makes it quite imposible to do so as the TAB can flactuate so you never know what you get atleast betfair once you are matched the money is set.

Best of luck

Michal

[partypooper]

Thanks everyone but it all sounds too hard to me, like maybe I would benefit but maybe not, and I've got to sit there for many hours.
At this stage I think I'll just carry on what I'm doing until I'm in a position to make that next step.

[stugots]

If you use Betfair SP without a limit then you can expect to get fleeced.

agreed


If you use Betfair SP with a limit then you can expect to get fleeced. But not as much.

disagree

on average my win bets are matched at > than the tabs final divs. after commission of course

one thing is for sure however - tab betting results in one ALWAYS getting fleeced

[thorns]

hey party, which bookie are you using to get best tote for place betting? That would be a god send for me and my place betting.

[jfc]

agreed




disagree

on average my win bets are matched at > than the tabs final divs. after commission of course

one thing is for sure however - tab betting results in one ALWAYS getting fleeced

Wednesday should be a perfect day for BSP, with all the workforce back at it after the Papal disruption.

Yet in markets I've looked at so far today, BSP accounts for merely ~1% of the Betfair pool.

If BSP had anything going for it, I imagine that % would be heaps higher.

So I assume former big-betting BSP'ers inevitably get fleeced and don't hang around after that.

[partypooper]

Thorns, Sportsbet pays Best Tote at Metro meets and best of NSW & Supertab for country meets (Country best) win or place. what I do is 2/3 bet at country best 1/3 at Unitab for the best average.

[thorns]

Thorns, Sportsbet pays Best Tote at Metro meets and best of NSW & Supertab for country meets (Country best) win or place. what I do is 2/3 bet at country best 1/3 at Unitab for the best average.Cheers party, any idea how that comapers to I.A.S superprice?

[stugots]

Wednesday should be a perfect day for BSP, with all the workforce back at it after the Papal disruption.

Yet in markets I've looked at so far today, BSP accounts for merely ~1% of the Betfair pool.

If BSP had anything going for it, I imagine that % would be heaps higher.

So I assume former big-betting BSP'ers inevitably get fleeced and don't hang around after that.

all i can do is relate my experience with bsp & if my returns were less than what i would get out of the tabs i wouldn't be doing it

[partypooper]

Thorns, well as I understand it Super price guarantees a better price than AT LEAST two of the big 3, so if you're getting BEST OF 3 (i.e. Sportsbet) you have to be in front don't you? (careful with those wordings that's where they trick you)

eg. 3 place divies $1.20, 1.30, 1.80, with Sportsbet you would be paid $1.80, with superprice you could be paid $1.31c, and still be within their guarantee.

[Dolus]

JFC wrote
f you use Betfair SP without a limit then you can expect to get fleeced.

If you use Betfair SP with a limit then you can expect to get fleeced. But not as much.

BSPs have been matched @~1.01.

So all a fleecer has to do is offer lays much lower than true odds.

On occasions those will be matched by the Betfair SP algorithm.

Particularly for large SP bets.

I think you are confusing Betfair SP with betting in running where people will offer 1.01 for a horse that looks to be the certain winner and as much as 1000 for a horse that looks like a certain loser.

Like Bookmakers SP, Betfair SP is based on the prices generally available just before the off.

[Steve M]

Dealing with place betting is particularly tricky. Had a similar query to PP regarding place bets.

Created an account with Dynamic RaceOdds on a trial basis and was looking at the place markets yesterday.

Looking at the results from yesterday on the price at the jump - Betfair V Sportsbet it's probably a 60/40 win to Betfair as to who has the best prices for the place.

Not forgetting the fact you may have received even better odds during betting.

BUT the one issue is the relatively small pools. If you look at pools for R2 MV.
Victab is holding 206.5k while Betfair is 19.4 so it certainly wouldn't take much to struggle to get a bet on. Especially if you weren't betting on a metro meet on a Saturday.

Centrebet also looks to offer fixed odds place betting on Sat metro markets [at least].

[jfc]

JFC wrote


I think you are confusing Betfair SP with betting in running where people will offer 1.01 for a horse that looks to be the certain winner and as much as 1000 for a horse that looks like a certain loser.

Like Bookmakers SP, Betfair SP is based on the prices generally available just before the off.


No confusion.

I believe I've had some of those low matches myself.

The Far BSP can in theory be very bad value.

So if it is then matched against a sparse unmatched bets queue, the final BSP can also be very bad value.

[partypooper]

Whilst I admit that I don't really know the go at Betfair, (I,ve looked at the site but find it very confusing) but from what I pick up from you blokes it would take a LOT of time and concentration to gain much advantange after comissions etc. but for me there is one KILLER,........ and that is 1&1/2 % charge for a deposit...... no way. remembering that I am mainly a place bettor.

[Mark]

PP, who charges you to make a deposit?, certainly not BF.

[Merriguy]

Well, Mark, it depends --- from the Betfair site:



There is no fee for UK debit card and aaaaa Laser card deposits. There is a 1.5% fee for all other debit and credit card deposits. Some card issuers impose additional charges for credit card deposits and customers should contact their card issuer for details of any charges that may be applied. http://www.propun.com.au/racing_forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Shaun]

If you use a CC card you get a 1.5% charge, but if you deposit via direct bank deposit or use BPay there is no charge.

[Mark]

I've made one deposit to BF by CC, charge = zero.
I've opened 4 a/c's with different bookies, all by CC, charge = zero.
Also opened an a/c with NSW TAB by CC, charge = $2.20 as it was treated as a cash advance.

[Shaun]

From what i remember Mark betfair never used to charge for CC deposits because i can remember this from before i was banned, but since we can now use them the charge is there.

[Shaun]

While we are on the subject of betfair i have a question that i know the answer to but brain won't respond.

I had a double today and after the first leg winner my possible return on the second leg was $255.60 my outlay on the double was $10 what is the best way to lay my second leg runner for maximum return no matter what happens.

[Steve M]

Hey Bhagwan or anyone else for that matter I gather you've had a good look at that betfair linked software...just been looking into a few myself.

What I'm trying to do is find something that allows me to setup something at the start of the raceday that does a check on a requested market say 1 min prior to the start and does a check on the curent price and bets according to my rules.

eg if between 1.1 and 5 bet 20
if between 5.10 and 10 bet 10
if between 10.1 and 20 bet 20

Looking at BetTrader Pro I'm not sure I can achieve that.

Thinking maybe Betting Assistant but appreciate anyone's thoughts or experience.

Cheers

[Shaun]

The second choice is the best option, cheap to use and will do what you want, you do need to have some excel knowledge to get it to do what you want but nothing impossible and plenty of help from thier forum.

[Shaun]

I got the answer to my question a member uploaded a document that would do what i want and the formulas are visible so i can add to my own sheets.

[Bhagwan]

Hi Steve,
Try, Bet IE
or
LayBotPro, this one needs one to nominate if 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th Fav in the live market then set the price parameters , it is also the simplest to use which is important with some of these things because they can be confusing to set up.

There is a free trial with some of these also.

Some others to look at which are more complicated to set up are...
Market Feeder Pro
AutoBet
BetGrail
Auto-Betfair 1.0

Cheers.

[partypooper]

Mark, they state 1 &1/2 % charge for a Credit Card Deposit, so if they are NOT charging you, I have no idea why?
Shaun, sorry mate but you are missing one of the most IMPORTANT strategies, ee male me at lumbasakabayo att hott male dott comm for complete explanation

[Mark]

Things have obviously changed. My deposit was over 5 years ago.

[Crackone]

Things have obviously changed. My deposit was over 5 years ago.I have always been charged 1.5% for deposits.

[Steve M]

Cheers Bhagwan many thanks :)

[partypooper]

Shaun, Got an e-mail from ya, hit show content and it duly disappeared.

Anyway mate no probs, when I read the thread again (sober) I couldn't remember what I'd thought of so it's me that's missed something hahahah! Something to do with 1&1/2% deposit charge but I think a lot of the guys are getting mixed up with the BANKS charge as against BF or whoevers charge.

[Shaun]

There was no content just the topic:)