confusing neurals

[ubetido]

hi all

i was talking to a friend of mine and we were talking about neurals as aap displays.

I had a look at the site and the neurals he was talking about and found a whole lot of different settings.

has anyone had experience or used them

are there any particular settings that give better results vs other settings

i noticed on some sttings the horses are generally the same and then a few more changes and the result is different.

regards

ubetido

[Tab Hunter]

I would also be interested if anyone has a formula that appears to source some nice selections. It's a bit confusing to me too! I realise this is not really the place to discuss the neurals, as it is promoting another website. But we all go to AAP for the racing news, and then come back to ProPunter to toss the ideas around. So, hopefully quapi is sympathetic to this thread. :grin:

[quapi]

It's OK by us. That's what forums are for! We certainly don't feel threatened by discussions of all the free information around (we provide free tips/ratings as well).

As a commercial site we also market our own ratings/selections.

Our own users though have the advantage of knowing that when the information they receive from us is significantly different to the betting markets that many thousands of other punters do not have precisely the same information.

[Bhagwan]

Here are some stats based on over 1000 races
based on the Neurals standard default setting.
1 Sel.28% Winners.
2 Sel.13%
3 Sel.14%
4 Sel.6%
5 Sel.6%
6 Sel.6%
7 Sel.5%
8 Sel.7%
Total= 85%

Scratchings were not taken into account to adjust the ranking .

[osulldj]

I don't wish to degrade what AAP / Racing and Sports have provided to punters free of charge out of their own good will, so this is not an opinion on their actual product but more about this type of thing in general, whether its free or paid for.

In general I can not understand why punters would seek to find the answers to racing in a complex set of automated calculations, without any knowledge of how they are worked out.

I belive the fact that so many factors can be adjusted has high appeal for most punters as they can get lost for months adjusting and readjusting....prolong the hope that if they adjust the settings enough they will find some miraculous combination that no one else has found, that manages to deliver them a profit without any knowledge or study on their part. Scouting around on different forums, particulalry the AAP one shows that there are no shortage of people ready to claim they have found a winning combination. Mysteriously they disappear just as quickly as they appeared.

Each to their own however my opinion is that time spent on these Neurals is extremely unproductive to your education and development as a successful punter.

As much as we might live in hope, the fact is that there is no combination that delivers a consistent profit. Racing is not so simple that it can be solved by such things, irrespective of the fact we call them Neurals and make them sound so technologically advanced.

Spending time searching for the answers amongst these type of things will teach you little about the fundamentals of form and betting value. When you come to the point of realising that they do not hold the answers you will be none the wiser about how to become a successful punter. The time spent adjusting, readjusting and testing will have been the most unproductive time you have ever spent as a punter.

Spending that same time reading, learning and practicing the art of form study, value judgement and disciplined betting habits will be much more productive in the quest to become a successful punter.

I have no connection to Pro-Pun however I would suggest that you would be much much better off spending 2 hours reading through all of their past punt to win articles than you would spending 2 hours trying to find a successful neurals combination.

ok, i'll get off my soap box now!

[Neil]

Thanks osulldj. That's why we are able to find some excellent value winners for punters who subscribe to our paid ratings/selection services. We understand form and we are always looking for new form based angles to stay a step ahead.

[Tab Hunter]

I agree wholehartedly, osulldj, and a passion you do have for what you say. Still while trudging through the Sportsman, and Pro Punter punt to win articles are extremely valuable, and pretty well essential, delving into something new, or more importantly, something we don't quite understand intrigues us! Whether these neurals are worth a pinch of valuable time is unknown to us at this stage... Just asking if anyone found some value in these shortcuts, or eliminators?

[Tab Hunter]

Actually, Bhagwan, 28% winners over 1000 races at default settings? Mmmmm.... Not bad... Can work with that! Be nice if the other third of winners were the favourites, we would have 2 thirds covered... Still, you could start from a worse base, and to think that is without imput, Mmmmmm..... They must be pretty fair ratings then to acheive those results. I wonder what they paid?

[wjp]

Confusing neurals .
Hello fellow punters.
I like to express my opinion about NEURALS.
I use this software all the time and I find them very accurate in rating..
As everyone know all ratings in horse racing is based on past performance of runners and this tool 'NEURAL' give you the ratings in 12 categories for all runners allocating points based on past performance.
This NEURAL logic using very large business operations around the world to predict future outcome of they activities.
Horse racing(GAMBLING)is unpredictable and if we like to win we have to start think like people which run racing,own horses,ride horses.My Grandfather owner of many racing and not racing horses told me:if you love horses you can own them,you can race them BUT never bet any because you loose you money.
I don't follow my grandfather advice and try to beat the odds.
I also like to give you sample of my rating based on neurals and my own thoughts for today racing:
Grafton 25 October
1/
1 Golden Mask 1.50
7 Don Supremo
3 Tears Of Stone SCR 3L 1,6=Quin.
2 Ribbonwood
6 Cosmetic Crown 2.70 1.30
=================

2/
2 I Gotcha Babe 1.30
1 Dusky Dancer
7 Happy Making 11.00 1.90
10 Watley Hill 4.60
QN 7*10 86.70 TF 7*10* 2 485.50
-================

3/
8 Carr's Drive
9 Cherry Jubilee 3.20 1.40
1 Aramarra
15 Silver Dan
2 Desert Bisc
==================

4/
10 Well Aired
5 Smoothe 1.40
2 Classic Dane 8.70 1.90
1 Celebratory 1.40
QN 1* 2 9.40 TF 2* 1* 5 64.10
==================

5/
10 Dustella 4.30 1.80
2 A New Shilling
8 Strategic Star
6 Ruby's Goddess 3.10
14 Wymston Grey 2.20
QN 6*10 12.70 TF 10* 6*14 150.90
XD 2*10 51.90
====================

6/
9 Mannadene Star
6 Count The Cards SCR 6
4 Oboe
2 God's Rule 1.70
1 Come To Order 4.10
====================

7/
2 Runves 1.50
12 Metro Max
6 Rosie O' Rosie
14 Svalbard
4 Cat Lady 5.10 2.00
=================

8/
1 Mazzone
2 St. Tevoc
9 Lady Vamp
11 Nortyuki
========================
Esk 25 October
1/
1 Seaway Lad 1.70
7 Tolga Dan 2.20
5 Our Party Light SCR 5
4 Free And Clear
====================

2/
13 Lochrae Princess 3.60 1.50
3 Sahara Noble
8 Banjo Man SCR 8
10 Hot Chilli Filly
12 Chaudie Boy
=========================

3/
5 Pedro's Success 1.20
13 Loud Blue SCR 13
3 Just Like Ali 7.20 1.80
QN 3* 5 4.50
==================

5/
6 Tat's Raku 2.70 1.30
4 Temple Master
2 Devonport SCR 2
7 Steely Dawn
======================

6/
4 Craiglea Bells 2.00 1.40
1 Stormy Blue
2 Aunty Tobys 2.60
7 Roman County
8 Kitchikan 2.50
QN 4* 8 14.70 TF 4* 8* 2 171.00
====================

7/
3 Our Shout 6.10
1 Blue Moxie SCR 1
5 Royal Performance
6 Woodsaw 3.10 1.40
QN 3* 6 41.60
DD 4* 6 11.60
TT 6* 4* 6 45.10
=====================

8/
4 Major Thomson
6 Don't Worry
1 Speedito
11 Naked Spur 10.90 3.20
3 Healer
======================================
Kyneton 25 October
1/
3 Brilliant General
10 Trojan Warrior 1.40
8 Canaletta 15.70 3.10
1 Ace Of Jewels
QN 8*10 23.00
======================

2/
5 Mentmore Lass 3.00
6 Mummify 1.20
12 Judge Flowers
13 In The Swing
8 Red Cayenne 9.40 1.70
QN 6* 8 5.30 TF 8* 6* 5 172.80
=====================

3/
1 Abrasions 3.20
2 Point Score
====================

5/
5 Perliffic
3 King Salieri 2.70
4 Donnie Brasco 2.50
======================

6/
10 Venetian Blush 2.00
1 As Requested
4 Roselander
5 Muscadet 6.10 1.70

=====================

8/
7 Beau Gallant SCR
4 And Shintaro 2.00 1.30
2 Neopolitan SCR 2
1 Final Dividend 2.60
3 Super Boom SCR
QN 1* 4 3.60
==================

Muswellbrook 25 October
1/
12 Life's Rosie 2.30 1.50
15 Ideal Queen
5 Kitchener Kid 1.50
QN 5*12 5.90
====================

4/
2 Field Commission
5 Kaysean D'Sunshine
1 King Axeman 9.60 1.90
======================

5/
10 Gentle Tom 7.90 2.30
2 Hot Magic SCR 2
11 Miss Tellac
======================

6/
1 Master Cameron
2 Time Rules 2.90 1.30
8 Martoula 1.70
QN 2* 8 6.60
=======================

7/
1 Lanolin SCR 1
6 Gunyah Guy 7.40 2.60
3 Crazy Ray 2.30
=======================

8/
1 Speed And Class
7 Marnanna 2.70
8 Gracerena

Regards.

wjp.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wjp on 2002-10-26 23:31 ]</font>

[ubetido]

hi all

i notice you refer to default settings what is exactly default settings in the neurals.

regards
ubetido

[Bhagwan]

Default setting , is the setting that the site automaticaly defaults to .

In this case everything will default to 3 except the weight setting, 0.

[michaelg]

Hi, Bhagwan. The WT category on the neurals refers not to Weight but to Wet Track. It is very ambiguous and should be renamed.
It is my understanding, I could be totally in error though, the weight of each horse is factored into the CF (current form) category.

Regards.
Michael.

[nevets]

well heres mine for this arvo at seymour
R5/6-4-7-8-1-5
6/1-3-5-15-9-7
7/3-9-1-8-2-7
8/6-2-5-11-14-15
9/2-3-1-8-7-10
I back my top selection ,stand it out in a quinella with the other 5 and also box quinella my first 4 selections all this dependant on a certain price being acheived for my top selection

[nevets]

Sat26th syd,mel,br,ad
The system threw up 12 bets for
6quins..tot $231.10
2wins total $24.00
I hope the good fortune fortune continues
cheers for now

and to bagwahn are those past nueral rating available from aap as i noticed on their site they only go back a few days or have you accumulated them over a period

[nevets]

oops sorry about the spelling bhagwan

[ubetido]

hi nevets

are our picks for seymour neural settings or your own.

regards
ubetido

[nevets]

yes but i only had bets in the last 2 races because of the price factor and i might add im only playing with pennies

[nevets]

just as an aside I had shares in a filly(summer promise) with the hyperion racing syndicate at the same time as they had ubetido

[ubetido]

hi nevets

you answered yes was that they were neural selections or your own.

do you still own horses

contact me by email if u like.

regards
ubetido@iprimus.com.au

[nevets]

sorry i use my own nueral settings and no i dont own any shares in horses.... just a one off thing a lonnnnng time ago we were lucky (and there were about thirty of us ) she won seven out of her 21 starts 3 of them in the city ..2 mid week and a weak saturday race but never the less you are lucky to get them to the track let alone win races with them .....and by the way i had a shocker yesterday 5 states 10 bets for 1 winner @ $6.90 and a quinella in the same race $16.90 .. mind you i dont think the bookies had a good day either

[nevets]

I also like to follow trainers during the carnivals ....Hawkes Freedman Mcevoy Mayfield Smith Waterhouse.. I have a coupla dollars on their roughies and quinella them with 6 of my nuerals but they let me down on saturday and yesterday ...sandmason was as close as i got on saturday but generally i do have a bit of success with them ..... and i wasnt quinellaing them with my nuerals when that horse of mayfield smiths(reactive) got up the other week but i did have a coupla dollars on it though which helped my day ........anyway i do it for fun i put a $200 in my account at the beginning of august and ive got 64 left after yesterdays little episode ....so the battle continues ive only been playing with the nuerals for about a month but i do like the idea i think it save s a lot of work but i do find they have some discrepesies ie trainers who have a good strike rate inthe bush come up to the top of the list when they bring horses to the city so my trainers setting is default and my cp on five cf on four ...... and i think this site is great a lot of constructive stuff gets put up here ...ive been using my own variation of the crappy horse over the last few weeks ...it throws up about 20 selections for 3 states on a saturday but over the last three weeks ive had three winners shirleys luvena , reactive ,and greens pick last saturday but whether that will continue is another matter cheers for now..... nevets

[ubetido]

hi nevets

do you use the same settings all the time or do you change.

do you keep any stats on the top selections
eg.selection one, two etc.

I dont use neurals myself but have been observing but i find that by changing the settings a different result comes up each time or close to it.

I guess trying to find the balance of the indicators to get the best result.

What setting do you find give you the best relults.

regards
ubetido

[nevets]

no idont keep stats just the reslts from the saturday races on my form guide ive only been using them for a month but i dont use a lot of the settings like barrier time dist etc just cp,cf,ja,ta,$,days since L/S I dont know whether its best or not i just like to play and i really think barrier dist etc arent that important on the scheme of things i think you can take tooo much into account if you know what i mean the time nueral can throw a horse like tarcoola midnight (melb rce1 this sat)to the top of the list with nothing else going for it ..... but im only guessing and havin some fun but im gunna have a dash at em on saturday and tuesday probably outlay 3 or 4 hundred all up and hope i jag a winner