CrazyBadger's testing...stats for your systems!

[crazybadger]

So as not to hijack the other thread where I was doing tests of systems for people I thought I would start a new one and people could request stats for various systems.

My current application (written by myself) is limited in some areas so I wont be able to do everything you want. On that note feel free to point out what sort of things would be good to test...I've got a bit of time off coming up and was thinking of getting back into my code and making it much more flexible.

Anyway so here are the criteria you can specify:
Runners: min and max
Trackcondition: Fast, Good, Dead, Slow/Soft, Heavy (or any combination)
Distance: min and max
RadioTabTips: you can say it MUST be in the top X of the Tips, or that it MUST NOT be in the top X of the tips (where x is the number you select), or ignore TabTips altogether
TabLatemail: must be the latemail tip, must not be latemail tip, or ignore latemail tip
Barrier: min and max
Weight: min and max
Win Price: min and max
Plc Price: min and max
Saddlecloth number: min and max
Form: can say whether it MUST have a certain form (C,D,T,W) or whether it MUST NOT...sorry but at this stage can't do "or" (e.g. cant say "C or D")
Last 3 starts: can say whether it must have placed, won, or rested within its last X starts (where X can be 1,2, or 3...0 will ignore L3S data)
Rating: min and max

Most of these values are defaulted so that all runners are included. Especially the min/max variables E.g. distance I default to be a min of 1m and a max of 100000m unless I have a theory with a specific distance range in mind.

So does anyone have any systems using those variables that they want tested? I have data for Jan 2007 to Oct 2008 so just list which specific variables you want to tweak and I will have a crack!

[michaelg]

Crazybadger, that's a lot of info there.

Is it possible to include in the future whether a horse in today's race is going up or down in both class and weight from last start, and also Win and Place strike rates, or do these stats cause difficulties in gathering and processing this info?

Thanks.
Michael.

[nulla]

I am trying to work a system around numbers 1-4 in handicaps, would be helpful if I could obtain strike rates and ave dividends, also 5 etc if 1-4 did not start
Thanking you
Ian

[wesmip1]

crazybadger,

just thought I would help you out with a few things.

I notice you are getting all your info from unitab. If you intend to increase the amount of info you have DO NOT use the free form provided by unitab (where they list the 3 runs) as it is wrong about 20% of the time. Best to use somewhere else although I can't mention the names of the sites here.

As far as systems ... from memory an old system I had based on the unitab info was horses riding on the same jockey at the same track within 7 days that are rated 100 you should do ok. Can't remember if I also included that it must be a last start winner ...

Anyway good luck with it.

Good Luck.

[stugots]

wesmip1, when you say unitab is wrong abt 20% of the time, your re referring to the info provided for the last 3 runs?

that is an appalling situation if what you say is correct

[wesmip1]

Yes I mean the last 3 start form when you login. Well when I say wrong the two biggest issues are:

1) It only includes races that were on unitab
2) If a horse has run less then 7 days ago its latest run is usually not there.

Yes it is appalling. But providing form is not really their main objective.

Good Luck.

[crazybadger]

I am trying to work a system around numbers 1-4 in handicaps, would be helpful if I could obtain strike rates and ave dividends, also 5 etc if 1-4 did not start
Thanking you
Ian
Sorry mate I don't have race types (handicap etc) in current solution so I cant really do much for you there. I can give you stats on just the numbers 1-4 for all races though if that helps...

Selections: 98069
1st: 12927 (13.18%)
2nd: 11824 (12.06%)
3rd: 11005 (11.22%)
Not Placed: 62313 (63.54%)
Avg Win Price (of all horses): 16.88
Avg Win Price (just winners): 6.25
Avg Plc Price (of all horses): 3.92

[crazybadger]

Yes I mean the last 3 start form when you login. Well when I say wrong the two biggest issues are:

1) It only includes races that were on unitab
2) If a horse has run less then 7 days ago its latest run is usually not there.

Yes it is appalling. But providing form is not really their main objective.

Good Luck.

Thats not good. Initially my program started as something more of a joke but has slowly grown too much. I should have chosen a better source at the time.
Luckily in a few months when I move to my new solution I will be using a much more reliable website for data (and getting a lot more data) as well as storing the BF prices etc to make for comparison against TAB dividends.

[stugots]

i am a bit surprised there been little comment regards wesmips statements about unitabs form, or lack of

can only speak for my local region, but the clubs & pubs etc in the NT are filled with those info machines that provide fields, prices, form etc, basically the same info available on the website, used them many times myself whilst having a beer & a bet to check on a nags last run...or so i thought...

will be sending unitab an email to try & clarify what their form guide actually does & doesn't provide & will relate any info i get here.

[Sportz]

Yes I mean the last 3 start form when you login. Well when I say wrong the two biggest issues are:

1) It only includes races that were on unitab
2) If a horse has run less then 7 days ago its latest run is usually not there.

Yes it is appalling. But providing form is not really their main objective.

Good Luck.

wesmip1,

I think you should have another look at the Unitab site. I think what you're talking about was the old system they had for displaying form. Yes, it WAS pretty poor. I remember when they used to only list the tab runs, no non-tab runs. But they've been using a new system for a fair while now (must be 3 or 4 years) and it is a big improvement. It certainly lists all runs. For example, I've just had a look at tomorrow's Mackay meeting and when you click on the form, you can see runs in places like Gladstone, Yeppoon, Moranbah, Clermont. None of those would have been on the TAB. And as for recent runs, I'm pretty sure they now list anything up till the last 2 or 3 days. I don't think there'd be anything wrong with using the Unitab website for something like this now.

[Merriguy]

Wes,

There is often quite a difference between the form for a runner and what is indicated under L3S.

Foe example in tomorrow's Race 5 at Mackay Frog's form says 404, whereas the L3S indicates 642 --- and this often happens!! (And, by the way, how anybody would name a horse Frog is beyond me lol)

[Sportz]

in tomorrow's Race 5 at Mackay Frog's form says 404, whereas the L3S indicates 642 --- and this often happens!!

Ummm, no it doesn't. The form says 642 in both sections for me. Here's what I have:

8 FROG GR G 05 Lynette Petersen - Moranbah (6) 54
Green, Orange Sleeves And Cap
15:2-3-0 $14100 W 1:0-0-0 T 2:1-0-0 D 4:1-1-0 1st UP 3:1-1-0 Canonise-Always Glowing

6-11 ROCK G 28Aug 1000 CL2 N Evans (1) 54 $4.20 Provenzano 5.8L 0-58.4
4-09 ROCK G 23Sep 1400 CL2 M Paget (9) 55 $9 Desert Hayil 4.1L 1-23.91
2-09 BOWN G 04Oct 1280 CL3-SW P Cullen (7) 58 $3.50 Satzero 0.2L 1-15.39



You guys obviously must be seeing different form to what I'm seeing or something???

[Stix]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=locationQ-RV align=left colSpan=2>MACKAY (http://www.tabonline.com.au/2008/12/09/QR.html)



</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=left>QR 5



</TD><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yyracetime width="80%">Jump</TD><TD class=yyracetime width="20%">2:52</TD></TR><TR><TD class=yyracetime width="80%">Odds</TD><TD class=yyracetime width="20%">10:48</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>09 Dec 2008 (http://www.tabonline.com.au/2008/12/09/mtgraces.html) </TD><TD align=left colSpan=3>YONG REAL ESTATE CLASS 2 HANDICAP </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=Tipster align=left width="12%"></TD><TD class=Tips width="14%"></TD><TD class=Tipster align=left width="15%"></TD><TD class=Tips width="13%"></TD><TD align=middle width="13%"></TD><TD class=TrackCond width="7%">1050M</TD><TD class=TrackCond width="14%"></TD><TD class=TrackCondR width="12%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=locationQ-RV width="3%">No.</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV width="1%"></TD><TD class=locationQ-RV width="22%">Name</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="9%">7:48</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="9%">Win</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="7%">Plc</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV width="1%"></TD><TD class=locationQ-RV width="19%">Rider (http://www.tabonline.com.au/2008/12/09/QRRiders.html)</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="6%">Bar</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="6%">Wght</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV width="1%"></TD><TD class=locationQ-RV width="6%">Form</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="5%">L3S</TD><TD class=locationQ-RV align=right width="5%">Rtng</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>1</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>RONTGEN (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=1#1)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>38.5</TD><TD align=right>53.1</TD><TD align=right>1.5</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>C BEETS</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>58.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>C</TD><TD align=right>735</TD><TD align=right>100</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>2</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>SUPER SHADOW (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=2#2)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>19.2</TD><TD align=right>7.5</TD><TD align=right>3.6</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>C WHITELEY</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>56.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>C</TD><TD align=right>9X4</TD><TD align=right>97</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>3</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>GOLDEN SAILS (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=3#3)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>38.5</TD><TD align=right>17.7</TD><TD align=right>2.7</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>A COOME(A)</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>54.5</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>W</TD><TD align=right>X92</TD><TD align=right>97</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>4</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>BORROWED HOPE (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=4#4)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>3.8</TD><TD align=right>5.3</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>T BANNON</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>16X</TD><TD align=right>91</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>5</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>LADY IN THE SUN (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=5#5)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD align=right>3.6</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>D SIMMONS</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>8X3</TD><TD align=right>99</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>6</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>SHE'S EXCITING (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=6#6)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>0.0</TD><TD align=right>5.3</TD><TD align=right>1.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>P EDWARDS(A)</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>DC</TD><TD align=right>814</TD><TD align=right>94</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>7</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>CLEVELAND SHOW (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=7#7)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>38.5</TD><TD align=right>53.1</TD><TD align=right>10.8</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>D GREEN</TD><TD align=right>8</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>D</TD><TD align=right>577</TD><TD align=right>93</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>8</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>FROG (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=8#8)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>1.2</TD><TD align=right>1.7</TD><TD align=right>1.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>G BAKER</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>C</TD><TD align=right>642</TD><TD align=right>96</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>9</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>REGAL FOX (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=9#9)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>M SPEERS(A)</TD><TD align=right>10</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>D</TD><TD align=right>X47</TD><TD align=right>93</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>10</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>THEITALIANSTALLION (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=10#10)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>J WOOD(A)</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>630</TD><TD align=right>88</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.bgColor = '#444444'" onmouseout="this.bgColor = '#000000'" bgColor=#000000><TD align=right height=18>11</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>FLOYD PEPPER (http://secure.tabonline.com.au/netbet/getform?Form=/2008/12/09/QR05form.html&Runner=11#11)</TD><TD class=BlueNum>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD align=right>0.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left>R HALL</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>54.0</TD><TD></TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>463</TD><TD align=right>86</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Stix]

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#c4d2ff><TD><SMALL>4/9</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Rockhampton</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>23Sep08</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>1400m</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>M PAGET</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>9</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>55</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>GOOD</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>STARSTABLE.COM.AU CLASS 2 HANDICAP</SMALL></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ccd7ff><TD><SMALL>unpl/11</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Rockhampton</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>28Aug08</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>1000m</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>N EVANS</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>1</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>54</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>GOOD</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>B & J CAR SALES CLASS 2 HANDICAP</SMALL></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#d2daff><TD><SMALL>4/12</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Mackay</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>12Aug08</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>1250m</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>N EVANS</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>12</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>54</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>GOOD</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>BROWN & BIRD CLASS 2 HANDICAP</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Stix]

Herald sun as 14642 as last 5 starts!

[Sportz]

Well, I don't know what the problem is. Maybe only Qlders can access the correct form??? All I know is that I've been able to use it for at least 3 or 4 years now.

In any case, I think Crazybadger is only using the form figures for the last 3 starts in what he's doing, isn't he? And that part's correct, so he should be right. In fact, the only problem I see with doing that is if there is a spell in there, you only get the horse's last 2 starts, not 3.

[stugots]

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#c4d2ff><TD><SMALL>4/9</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Rockhampton</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>23Sep08</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>1400m</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>M PAGET</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>9</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>55</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>GOOD</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>STARSTABLE.COM.AU CLASS 2 HANDICAP</SMALL></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ccd7ff><TD><SMALL>unpl/11</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Rockhampton</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>28Aug08</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>1000m</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>N EVANS</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>1</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>54</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>GOOD</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>B & J CAR SALES CLASS 2 HANDICAP</SMALL></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#d2daff><TD><SMALL>4/12</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>Mackay</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>12Aug08</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>1250m</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>N EVANS</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>12</SMALL></TD><TD align=middle><SMALL>54</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>GOOD</SMALL></TD><TD><SMALL>BROWN & BIRD CLASS 2 HANDICAP</SMALL></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


stix, that is unitabs basic form service that one see's when having not logged on to netbet express within the last 7 days & doesnt include non tab meets

[stugots]

wesmip, ive been checking todays meets against other online form guides & so far havent come across any issues with unitabs form, looks like sportz's comments may be right

[Sportz]

stix, that is unitabs basic form service that one see's when having not logged on to netbet express within the last 7 days & doesnt include non tab meets


Ahhhh, so THAT'S the answer!

I thought it might have been something to do with logging on, so I logged off yesterday and tried again. And of course got the same form I always see.

[stugots]

sportz one way to see the difference is to access unitabs site from a browser that you did not use when logging on to netbet express,

for example i use firefox when logging on but if i access the site using IE i see only the basic form guide

[stugots]

logging on creates a cookie i believe which expires after 7 days,

[Chrome Prince]

Download CCLEANER from Filehippo.com and wipe your cookies each time, or set Firefox to clear history automatically on browser closure.

Tools
Options
Private Data

Tick "Always clear my private data when I close Firefox"

Version 3.0.4

[wesmip1]

I know there is different form for those who login and those who do not. I am talking about the form for those logged in.

I stopped using them about a year ago but checking it quickly for Dec so far shows they have dramtiacally improved it. I will have to add it back in as a source of data. Maybe my continued complaints a while back got it fixed.

I was getting form from 4 different sources and unitab was the source which was most often in contention with the other 3 form guides.

They are still very different to other form guides in some areas. Beaten Lengths is one area they still get different quite a few times. I checked one race today and I found 1 entry which was out by 0.75 lengths which to system punters could be the difference between a bet or a lay.

Its hard to find consistent data amongst all those that provide data for free but I have found if you source it from enough places you can get what most people think is the truth.

The other place which is terrible is R&S. Acutally they are ok unless you want back data as I found out recently when someone else tried to get the ratings from there and they differed considerably to mine (which were downloaded each day).

Good Luck.

[crash]

sportz one way to see the difference is to access unitabs site from a browser that you did not use when logging on to netbet express,

for example i use firefox when logging on but if i access the site using IE i see only the basic form guide

Are you making sure when you add a site to favorites, you have added the home page [or racing section] and not a particular page?

Clearing all cookies [thankfully, clearing history doesn't clear cookies] after a session from any browser means you will have to log on every time to any of ones sites requiring a log-on and that has a 'remember me' feature, including this site. Most cookies are harmless and very useful. Only harmful cookies need removing which can be done with regular scans from AVG anti-virus [latest version] for example.

[stugots]

chrome, the unitab cookie is one to keep otherwise one has to logon to netbet express every time to access the detailed form

ive tried to edit it in the hope i could change a date or something so it wont expire, without any luck tho.

[crazybadger]

so what would people say is the most reliable online form guide?

[wesmip1]

vfg is good . Thetote has another fairly reliable formguide. expform is another good site. R&S is ok most of the time. centreb also has a good formguide, betfair has a good form guide.

They are the main ones I use. (Obviously some abbrev above).

Good Luck

[Try Try Again]

I reckon the Racenet formguides are good and out quite early so you have more time to put the effort in.

[stugots]

knowing we are not allowed to promote or link other sites, i often like to bet 'every race' when im feeling a bit of a wizard...

[Michal]

Cyberhorse, sure one has to pay for it but if you want a reliable, 5 start that has most things that you need and wount find in general TAB style form then payed for is about the only way to go. The free form is free because its a guide not a form.

Cyberhorse cost is less then $269 per year for all tote meetings. Less then a buck a day. Gives you all the stats like API win place strike percentage, first up stats and more and individual runs info ....

[Moderator 3]

knowing we are not allowed to promote or link other sites, i often like to bet 'every race' when im feeling a bit of a wizard...
There's no need to talk in riddles. Mentioning another site by name or adding the URL without www in front, so it isn't automatically turned into a link, is usually fine here provided it does not become an advertising campaign with one or two posters persistently naming it in just about every post they make, as has happened in the past when some new web sites were starting up.

Moderator 3.

[Stix]

There's no need to talk in riddles. Mentioning another site by name or adding the URL without www in front, so it isn't automatically turned into a link, is usually fine here provided it does not become an advertising campaign with one or two posters persistently naming it in just about every post they make, as has happened in the past when some new web sites were starting up.

Moderator 3.Can't blame them for being "Gun Shy"

RacingandSports and Virtual Form Guide are the ones I use.