Is it just me?

[darkydog2002]

Or are the quality of the horses racing at a all time low.
And
Are the trainers getting stupider in that of the few inform horses about the trainer legs up a 2 or 3 KG kid

Fair dinkum I am finding it extrelely difficult to bet on any horse these days.

Cheers.
darky

[lomaca]

Are the trainers getting stupider in that of the few inform horses about the trainer legs up a 2 or 3 KG kid

Fair dinkum I am finding it extrelely difficult to bet on any horse these days.
Cheers.
darkyOn this one, I'm in complete agreement with you Darky.

Jockeys have to learn the trade like any other apprentice and we have to give them the chance to do so, but I will never understand why a good horse in a better class race has an unproven jock on board.

It shows up mostly in longer races where tactics play a greater part.
If I were in charge of the training of jockeys, I would introduce them to longer distance races gradually.
Their inexperience far outweighs the few Kgs weight advantage.

Burned my fingers too many times to even entertain the notion of betting on such a horse!

/end of rant

Good luck

[crash]

Or are the quality of the horses racing at a all time low.
And
Are the trainers getting stupider in that of the few inform horses about the trainer legs up a 2 or 3 KG kid

Fair dinkum I am finding it extrelely difficult to bet on any horse these days.

Cheers.
darky

Lets get real. There are 25,000 foals born every year and the quality is crap. Almost all 2yr. olds are absolute garbage that should go straight to the pet food industry, not flogged to naive owners!

[moeee]

Try asking yourself, "How come Darren Beadman or someone similar ain't riding this horse"?

Reasons come to mind are the Trainer is experimenting with this race and isn't particularly interested in winning it.
Or the Trainer or owner is obliged to the rider.

NEVER, EVER Blame anyone, or anything else for your losses.
Your decision to back or not back ANY animal is yours, and yours alone.

If you are losing, try to sit back and find out if you can find out where the REAL Problem is.

That 15% they pinch from the Pools is very hard to overcome.
It means you need to be in the top 15% capable Punters investing in that pool.
I think it means that anyway :(

[Steve M]

I think the quality of off season racing is pretty high these days.

Mid winter in Melbourne used to serve up some pretty average conveyances.

I think the top end [G1] lacks depth amongst the middle distance and staying brigade.

[Brendon]

Whats worse is that the trainer/owners don't know their own animals. I look at some of the races some ok horses are put in and I think "Are you not aware it can't get 2000? Can you not see 1600 is its absolute limit.There was a perfect race for this horse last week"

Good for me if I fancy another and the one out of its distance range is the fave. But anyway, I do wonder why they sometimes waste their time. Experimenting with the owner's money?

[Steve M]

I think you have to acknowledge owners/trainers operate under different circumstances to the punter.

Yes, some might be a little too optimistic but some horses run in unsuitable races by necessity for future goals whilst others need to test the waters in various situations for future planning.

And in variious circumstances owners/trainers can still run in a race and finish ahead even if they're not the winner.

[Brendon]

Sometimes they operate under dumber circumstances. 20 years ago I was a part owner, and not the one with any say. There was a mid week race ideal at Sandown. We would have got 51. But they opted for Kyneton in a lower class. The horse did not travel well, but do you think they would listen? I'm telling you, sometimes there is not a lot of high quality thinking going on.

[lomaca]

Sometimes they operate under dumber circumstances. 20 years ago I was a part owner, and not the one with any say. There was a mid week race ideal at Sandown. We would have got 51. But they opted for Kyneton in a lower class. The horse did not travel well, but do you think they would listen? I'm telling you, sometimes there is not a lot of high quality thinking going on.Same experience here but in the opposite direction, we had an at best class 4 horse, but the trainer and other partners loved rubbing shoulders with the big boys in the city.

Instead of nominating in winnable races in the bush, off we trotted to city races to make up the numbers.

Got out of the caper as fast as I could, if you can't afford to own a horse and have a say in how it's treated, keep away and save a bundle.

[Imagele]

Or are the quality of the horses racing at a all time low.
And
Are the trainers getting stupider in that of the few inform horses about the trainer legs up a 2 or 3 KG kid

Fair dinkum I am finding it extrelely difficult to bet on any horse these days.

Cheers.
darkyDon't know about you darky but I'm in the midst of the worst run of outs ever in 40 years of punting.
I operate on Victorian races only and the new class rating system has done my head in when trying to assess horses from a class angle.
I recent compiled a list of 100 animals taken from the nominations for country Victoria and placed them in a file called Pal tin.
95 of them will never win another race.
On top of the hundreds of maiden gallopers going around every day we now have by courtesy of the class rating system a whole new army of 0-62 rated gallopers which would be rightfully retired if not for this new rating system.
As an example, at Sale tomorrow a 10yo called Distraction is entered in Race 10, a 0-62 rating hcp. over 1600m.
Distraction has won 18 times from 137 starts and prizemoney of $163,000.
Here it is in a race equivalent to less than the old class 1 with a rating less than that given to a maiden winner.(58).
Listed below are some examples of entrants for country Victoria races since the introduction of the class rating system:
8yo, 2 runs past 1000 days. 7yo won 1/36, maiden at 1st race start Aug. 04. 9yo res. 1 win from past 44 starts. 9yo res. last win Mar. 06. 7yoM.13 duck eggs to date. 7yo res. won 1/9. 7yo res. last won Oct. 05, pl. 1/27 since.
Everyone of the other ninety in my list have similar form lines.
Extrapulate this Australia wide and you will see what a mess racing is in and what an impossibility it is to try and make any sense of it other than by using the dart board method.

[crash]

Don't know about you darky but I'm in the midst of the worst run of outs ever in 40 years of punting.
I operate on Victorian races only and the new class rating system has done my head in when trying to assess horses from a class angle.
I recent compiled a list of 100 animals taken from the nominations for country Victoria and placed them in a file called Pal tin.
95 of them will never win another race.
On top of the hundreds of maiden gallopers going around every day we now have by courtesy of the class rating system a whole new army of 0-62 rated gallopers which would be rightfully retired if not for this new rating system.
As an example, at Sale tomorrow a 10yo called Distraction is entered in Race 10, a 0-62 rating hcp. over 1600m.
Distraction has won 18 times from 137 starts and prizemoney of $163,000.
Here it is in a race equivalent to less than the old class 1 with a rating less than that given to a maiden winner.(58).
Listed below are some examples of entrants for country Victoria races since the introduction of the class rating system:
8yo, 2 runs past 1000 days. 7yo won 1/36, maiden at 1st race start Aug. 04. 9yo res. 1 win from past 44 starts. 9yo res. last win Mar. 06. 7yoM.13 duck eggs to date. 7yo res. won 1/9. 7yo res. last won Oct. 05, pl. 1/27 since.
Everyone of the other ninety in my list have similar form lines.
Extrapulate this Australia wide and you will see what a mess racing is in and what an impossibility it is to try and make any sense of it other than by using the dart board method.
I agree with you there Imagele. Far too many horses running around in circles going nowhere in life. Far too many meetings and even maidens in group races. So things are obviously a bit sick. Driving all this is a massive breeding industry making money hand over fist from mug owners who want to 'own a racehorse' for all the wrong reasons. Most owners or part owners, bleed money, not win it. Some fall in love with their horse and have the money to keep the chaff bandit going for years, not caring if it ever wins another race.

Syndicate buying should be exposed for what it is. Example: $5k a 20th. share and $100 a month fees [trainers love that one]. What these share holders won't be told is the original sales ring price paid for the horse, which probably cost no more than $10k [or less]. More often than not, the nag might win a country maiden through sheer luck after 5 or 6 tries and soon after quietly disappear from the track and into a petfood can, as so many do every year.

[stugots]

It was just pure luck of course but I have experienced the other side of syndicate ownership - that being we got a goodun. 5 city wins including a listed race didnt win us a fortune but the thrill of it all still gives me goose bumps.

Then reality set in with the 2nd nag I 'invested' in - a complete hack retired after 8 starts.

As to syndicate ownership being a 's.cam', Im sure it can be but my experiences were the opposite with all details of the animals fully disclosed including original purchase price - sure the syndicators make a quid turning the animal around but should we expect them to do it for free?

[crash]

No I don't expect them to do it for free, but nor do I expect used car salesmen to do it for free either.

[Moderator 3]

Syndicate buying should be exposed for what it is.
Please note: Horse racing syndicates are legal and have to act within the law. If you have information that contradicts this about any syndicate then contact the appropriate authorities. We're certainly not interested in publishing defamatory material here.

From the Forum Terms of Use.

"Postings that circumvent censored words. Users should not attempt to bypass the forum word censor software by altering the spelling, or any other methods."

If you believe a word has been incorrectly censored then please contact us.

Moderator 3.

[crash]

Moderator,

No, I agree that the word that was censored was a good call by you. In hindsight I shouldn't have used it. That said, if I think there is overt profits being made above and beyond fairness [without mentioning names] in certain areas of the racing industry [or any other 'legal' industry for that matter], then that's just [my] opinion and is also a fair call, but as you point out, using a derogatory description isn't.

[darkydog2002]

A lot of the TOP Pro,s now use Warren Blocks Field strength ratings as opposed to the Class ratings.
A better indication of a horses ability in the current race in my opinion.

Cheers.
darky.