Betfair results

[partypooper]

Can anyone direct me as to how to find the betfair final results, i.e the betfair SP.

I can get the results as in finishing position but I need the final prices?

[Shaun]

http://racing.betfair.com.au/

http://www.betfair.com.au/data/

[partypooper]

Thanks Shaun, but when click on RESULTS it just gives me finishing positions, i.e. numbers 1st 2nd and 3rd, what I want is final prices .??

And the data site gives me archived results but not todays? I'm sure its just something simple that I'm NOT doing as I have seen the daily results on there before?

[partypooper]

Cancell that, I've figured out how to collate the list on the top left, not exactly what I was looking for but it'll do.

What I am impressed with is that, the 18 races I was interested in (involving 36 bets) showed 16,2 units profit with a mixture of Top Fluc, Best tote/sp and best tote,

using betfairs closing prices they showed 22,16, I'm bowled over, but b4 I get too excited, is that closing price what they then call SP?

As I still havent figured out how to place a bet @ SP?? any help?

One more thing, what is BF-WAP?

[thorns]

Hey Party,

SP betting on BF for aussie racing has only just started again last weekend, and from my understanding, is only available on Wednesday and Saturday metro venues. Those prices shown on the site are the last avaialable at close, so while they arent intirely accurate, it gives you a good indication of what your results would have been, as with the prices moving all the time, sometime you would have got higher, sometimes you may have been matched at a lower price.

From my research using these figures though, it all seems to balance out nicely with my real world BF results.

One last thing is that remember you have to pay commision on those winning as well, although I beleieve there is an option to have the prices shown with the 5% deduction already applied from teh settings menu on racing.betfair.com.au

Hope that helps.

[partypooper]

Thanks Thorns, yes that clears it up a bit, bummer though as I wanted to place my bets well b4 racing, but its everyday so will have to think that idea as I just cant sit in front of the comp.. permanently

Anyway thaks for the help, by the way interestingly when I ran the numbers for those same selections for the place, best tote was BETTER than Bet fair by 1&1/2 units wierd.

[thorns]

Thanks Thorns, yes that clears it up a bit, bummer though as I wanted to place my bets well b4 racing, but its everyday so will have to think that idea as I just cant sit in front of the comp.. permanently

Anyway thaks for the help, by the way interestingly when I ran the numbers for those same selections for the place, best tote was BETTER than Bet fair by 1&1/2 units wierd.I am in the same position that I cant sit at my PC all day for my laying, but have got myself a bot which works a treat. It is a option you could consider. The bot I am using is Grey Horse bot lite, have had no issues with it apart from things that I have cocked up myself, and I know a few others using it and all have had great success with it, and the seller is a real top bloke who is always happy to answer any questions.

In regards to the place markets, it doesnt surprise me too much, as there is generally poor liquidity in those markets.

[OM SHARNTEE]

Hi partypooper

You asked -" One more thing, what is BF-WAP?

BF-WAP? is the BetFair- Weighted Average Price . ie: an Average Price determined by the Volume of money & the price traded at.

eg: a horse trades between 4--6 We could say the AV = 5
But this is one of "Gai's that no one wants to risk & they've opened up too short anyway . It only really gets Backed at between 5.5 - 6 So its BF-WAP? = appproimately 5.75 & then it may "Close' at 5.5 -- So if your good you could have got the 6s - or at least the 5.75

Also on this price info page under the horses name are the letters
S - F - D -- Standing for Steady -Firm -Drift .
This is a Fluctuation Chart
So in this instance it would look like this

SSSDDDFDFDF

So by using this: the BF-WAP & the close Back & Lay pice you can better judge what prices may have been on offer .

Could be a good weekend for a PPM or even a third letter !!!

Cheers
OM SHARNTEE

[partypooper]

QUOTE [Could be a good weekend for a PPM or even a third letter !!!]


SHARNTEE, glad to see youre keeeping up with all the latest there Hee Hee!

But seriously, thanks for the Betfair lessons I need em, obviously I want the best price I can as I bet every day. Renovating the house at the moment complete with new office and have promised myself a new Comp; so maybe I can be a bit more into it then!

[partypooper]

Again yesterday, radio tips top 2 = 17 winners, combination of Top Fluc and best tote = returns 62,8 units, same horses @ betfairs closing prices =68.16units again a diff of 5.36 units I have to say that I'm most impressed so far, like what have I been missing??

[lomaca]

diff of 5.36Did you deduct the 5% fee for betfair?
Plus a few more bits and pieces along the way

[partypooper]

shucks forgot about that! but whats these bits and pieces?

is the 5% deducted from WINNINGS only? and if so;
is it from each individual bet?

[lomaca]

shucks forgot about that! but whats these bits and pieces?
I will check my account Party, but I stopped betting on betfair for many reasons, one of them is that somehow I get small charges I can't explain.

True I must admit, I'm not full bottle on it myself, not to mention I can't, nay, I will not sit in front of a computer all day.

I'll let you know.

[Crackone]

shucks forgot about that! but whats these bits and pieces?

is the 5% deducted from WINNINGS only? and if so;
is it from each individual bet?You pay the com. on net winnings for that race.

[partypooper]

Crackone, thanks for that, but I gotta tell ya I smile every time I see your username, POMMY humour from way back, hahahh!

Anyway, I'm slowly getting the drift of Betfair, even with the commission, it looks like a 6-8% advantage.

But I've noticed so far, the advantage seems to be on winners ABOVE 3-1 is that fair comment?

The lower end seems to about even stevens with best tote and less than Top fluc, which would make BOB a better product for conveyances at say 3-1 or less?????

Also one has to remember if you are dutching the effect of that 5% is VERY significant, in the sense that say you cover 3 horses then you have already backed 2 losers BUT you are paying 5% on the so called "winnings" eg say you back 3 horses $100 each and get the winner at 2-1, so you "win" $200 and pay $10 comm. you actually only broke even but STILL paid $10 comm.??

Still seems like only betfair is winning to me?

PS. I have some data from Typhoon pools, that shows that the advantage on the lower end. i.e. 3-1 and less is about a 5% advantage over best tote, with no restrictions, no sitting in front of the comp all day etc etc.

Mmmmmmm, more food needed!

[Dennis G]

But I've noticed so far, the advantage seems to be on winners ABOVE 3-1 is that fair comment?
The lower end seems to about even stevens with best tote and less than Top fluc, which would make BOB a better product for conveyances at say 3-1 or less????? That seems about right in my experience although better prices can be had if one can 'read' the ebb and flow of the market. :(
Also one has to remember if you are dutching the effect of that 5% is VERY significant, in the sense that say you cover 3 horses then you have already backed 2 losers BUT you are paying 5% on the so called "winnings" eg say you back 3 horses $100 each and get the winner at 2-1, so you "win" $200 and pay $10 comm. you actually only broke even but STILL paid $10 comm.?? Umm, if I'm reading that correctly you have outlayed $300 and returned $300 - no commission. Commission is paid on the nett winnings on the race only.

[partypooper]

Dennis G, great news BUT are you sure about that as i've already been assured that the commssion is levied on each INDVIDUAL BET???????

By the way I'm not knocking anything just trying to establish the best deal, e.g. recently IAS promoted Super Price, guarantees better than 2 totes, ...... so eg totes $2.....$2,50c......... $3 SB pays $3, IAS pays $2.51c and calls it "SUPER PRICE" I ask you where would you have rather backed it????

[Shaun]

The commission is paid on the profit from the race.

[lomaca]

The commission is paid on the profit from the race.here is an actual example of dutching and the charges Party, see if you make any sense of it?

14:03 2010-02-26 Comm Charged 4.89% On Net winnings of AUD45.2 (2.21)
13:59 AUS Ipsw (AUS) 26th Feb / 14:00 To Be Placed / 8. Koranovsky Back $2.84 * 30.00 Won 55.20
13:54 AUS Ipsw (AUS) 26th Feb / 14:00 To Be Placed / 5. Shanhai Pass Back $2.39 * 10.00 Lost (10.00)

[Michal]

Hi Party,

just a small note that its not all roses with betfair. The prices that you are getting are post race I presume or some index on the web site. They are NOT what you would get when you decide to take the bet. The prices fluctuate, the ammount available (liquidity) varies and you have to actually get them. Sometimes I missed bets because the prices changed so often that I failed to keep up with them and never got matched.

You pay commision on every profit that you make from a winning race. If you bet 2 horses and you got $2 div for each and one won you would actually not pay commision because the overall result would be break square (no win).

The SP from betfair is in my opinion not favorable to backers as many people place laybets at smaller prices to drag the SP down there by creating an ideal opportunity to abitrage the bet, no good for those that are trying to bet the other problem is that you can never assure that there will be the money available to fulfill your bet.

You are spot on the higer the price the more errors by those that provide the back bets. You will get no favours on a thing that is short in the market. Bookies prices are a good guide to what the betfair price will finish up at.

The higher the price the greater presure on the layers to entice the backers to take their price hence the prices are higher.

Gone are the days where you could make a killing on longshots. All te stupidity is gone from the market and pitens are available on any decent div.

As far as the commision , depending on your betting activity it goes down to a 2% but I think the volume must be quite high and sustained to achive that but 3-4% is probably quite achivable.

As for Typhoon pools, their prices are atractive, their pools are not ! If you bet any serious money their you will destroy the price. That is the curse of any new comers to the tote game, they have no liquididty to take bets, the exact reason why Aus TOTE never got anywhere, they always offered good prices for those that bet $10 or less.

All the above are just my opinions and beliefs and may not be all acurate.

Providing that you can overcome the limitations then there certainly is a nice way to enhance your profit for ne extra risk. If you want to bet $1000 , its the same bet regardless of the price you take, there is no extra risk taking $5 about a horse where others are offereing $4. :)

Michal

[TheSchmile]

Hi Party,

There's a website in the UK if you haven't seen it that proofs tipsters. It shows the comparison between Betfair SP and the Bookies.

Racing Index (http://racing-index.com/tipsters/performance-comparison.php?months=12&type=back)

Worth checking out to see the difference.

Two Shoes

[partypooper]

Hey! just wanna thank you guys, I was struggling with betfair, but all is a bit clearer now, thanks heaps,

The VERDICT, steer clear on conveyances at the lower end of the market i.e . say, pre post @ 3-1 or less.

But otherwise go for it!

[Crackone]

Hi partypooper

I think you can still get 20 - 30% (sometimes 100%) better odds at the lower end say $2 to $3 mark. The more you can use betfair the more you can see how the swings and turns, but no always!

If you have an account with betfair there is a tool that will let you practice in reel time named GEEKS TOY have not used it myself.

Cheers