Mr Barry's Pot O Platinum Thread

[Mr barry]

Ok I have twigged to an idea that is going to make me millions, I am currently looking at launches on the web that I am likely to be able to afford in the next week or so the way things are going, when I get over the mega winning day today I will post some of the results for you. It has been killing it for over a week now and this time I am sure I am onto the next big thing.

Have a good evening, more tomorrow.

[Mr barry]

PS: Now I know from experience that many of you wont believe me but I swear its all above board and its a sure fire big earner based on the last week.

[luv2bet]

based on the last week??
surely this is a joke

[darkydog2002]

Is it based on logic like the "Infallible" .

[Mr barry]

Hi Darky yes it is very sound exactly like the Infallable.

[darkydog2002]

Well it would have to be better than my old mates method (anything would be )of betting odds on horses for the PLACE on Betfair.

Hope you were on all the longshots today.Today would give any smart punter the Bank to try any method.

I,ve just booked my trip to Canada for next month on todays winnings.

Cheers
darky

Hey .I,ve just about to put a "GOLD" system to the smart SATURDAY punters.

[Moderator 3]

Mr Barry, we welcome your posts.

However, please take note of the Forum Terms of Use at http://www.ozmium.com.au/terms.html

Here are some things not permitted:

Promotion of other sites ...

Public notices and announcements. Before posting, for advice on what is acceptable please contact OZmium management.

Promotion of 'get rich quick' schemes or e-mail solicitations to join such schemes.

Unpaid advertisements or spam.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Please do not flame another member. Thanks. Moderator.

[Moderator 3]

Ok I have twigged to an idea that is going to make me millions, I am currently looking at launches on the web that I am likely to be able to afford in the next week or so the way things are going.... In view of the above where you indicated that you hope to launch your betting method on a web site that you will be "able to afford" we thought it timely to give you a friendly reminder of this Forum's Terms of Use.

Hope you continue to win heaps with your selection method.

[Shaun]

hahahahahahahahahahahahah i think you stuffed up, the way i read it he is looking at boats that he will be able to afford when this so called method returns him heaps.

He is in dreamland let him enjoy his time.

[Mr barry]

In view of the above where you indicated that you hope to launch your betting method on a web site that you will be "able to afford" we thought it timely to give you a friendly reminder of this Forum's Terms of Use.

Hope you continue to win heaps with your selection method.Sorry I should have said Catamarans and yes thank you I continue to amass from it. I will reveal more at the weekend.

[wesmip1]

I thought this whole thread was a "joke" thread. Ie Mr Barry was making fun at himself and others.

[Management]

You are probably right Wesmip1.

Though at this time of the year - Caulfield Cup, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup - we have had quite a few people registering for the Forum using their horse racing business e-mail addresses. Before their registrations have been approved we have welcomed them, but also asked them to confirm that they are going to use the Forum for recreational puposes and not to promote what their racing business is selling.

Most have declined to do this. Guess they wanted free advertising.

[Mr barry]

You are probably right Wesmip1.

Though at this time of the year - Caulfield Cup, Cox Plate, Melbourne Cup - we have had quite a few people registering for the Forum using their horse racing business e-mail addresses. Before their registrations have been approved we have welcomed them, but also asked them to confirm that they are going to use the Forum for recreational puposes and not to promote what their racing business is selling.

Most have declined to do this. Guess they wanted free advertising.Sorry Management, certainly was not about promoting anything or any website.
To show that I am genuine I have included a list of all possible contenders, those who are taking this very seriously can follow along today and see how I go.

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bal R01 # 1 Currajar

bal R01 # 8 Threebigrivers

bal R04 # 3 Bradfield

gos R01 # 1 Able Red

gos R02 # 4 Fulmination

gos R02 # 6 King Richard

gos R05 # 5 She's A Rock Star

gos R07 # 4 Shannara

hor R04 # 7 Sizzlin Bacon

hor R05 # 1 Express Star

hor R08 # 2 Divine Force

pij R04 #14 Zentusi

pij R05 # 1 General Mosville

pij R05 # 2 Zebook

pij R06 # 6 Traxa

pij R06 # 7 Flirty Lady

pij R07 # 5 Dark Money

pij R09 # 3 Master Tenby

pip R01 # 1 Let's Talk

pip R02 # 5 Zabullion

pip R05 # 2 Audit

pip R05 # 4 Scat Singer

pol R01 # 5 Final Dynasty

pol R02 # 2 Harreb Lady

pol R03 # 3 Toolora Starr

pol R04 # 5 Snaamar

pol R05 # 1 Double Cover

pol R06 # 2 Miss Eliza

pol R07 # 3 Stella's Pearl

pol R07 #11 Northside Star

sey R01 # 7 Reallen

sey R03 # 7 Miss La Frenz

sey R05 # 7 Jewel Thief

sey R06 #10 Super Scud

sey R07 # 5 Conquering

sey R07 #10 Wind Shear

sey R08 # 3 Dad Knows Best

sey R09 #12 Guru Bob

sha R01 #10 Scoot Da Loot

sha R05 #15 Danewin Tiger

sha R06 #11 Bolero

sun R03 # 8 Bella Montana

sun R03 #13 Special Verdict

sun R04 # 3 Why Warrior

sun R05 # 7 Norocos

sun R07 #13 Bellavonane

sun R08 # 4 Craiglea Falcon

Now these are just the possible contenders, I base my bets on the above being value prices. Now I will state that I most likely will be on the majority of these with my staking plan that I have used so far to produce an incredible return to date. (The staking plan is NOT LOSS CHASING and was based around the works of KELLY,STEBBING,COTTEL and a couple of others with a bit of Parrondo and Pegasus thrown in ).

māhunga wai


Mr Barry

[Mr barry]

Darky where the ************ ******** are you mate, as you can see I am having a stellar day with the vast majority winning or placing, absolutely amazing result again today.
Especially when I take into account the exotics staking plan I am using with them.
Wahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Mr barry]

I thought this whole thread was a "joke" thread. Ie Mr Barry was making fun at himself and others.Where's the appology? I am waiting.

[TWOBETS]

I'm a little impressed actually. Fire away gents.

[Mr barry]

I'm a little impressed actually. Fire away gents.Its a lesson to not dismiss anything until you have read the fine print.

[partypooper]

There's no revenge like "success" is there Mr barry? Love it!

[Mr barry]

45 bets in total
10 winners
well over half my bets place (1/2 of them run in the first 2)

An absolutely magnificent day again, and I am upgrading my thinking and looking for a more expensive launch (Boat, ship floaty on water thingy, Moderator/Managament ).

Even me old cobber the D man could have turned a profit with the Pot O Platinum today.

If you hear about a guy caught running naked through the streets singing "I'm in the money" then you will know him.

[moeee]

I'm glad I never got sucked in to backing your tips :)

I figure that a dollar on each of your selections to win produces a hefty loss.
And if not for the Port Lincoln Meeting, you certainly would have been dancing naked due to losing your shirt :)

[partypooper]

I didn't even look at em, just presumed that when you said that most of them won, I figured you'd had a field day (as we say in the UK)

The ACID test is still (and always has been, always will be) level stakes on each selection , over time does it show a profit???

[Bhagwan]

Nakedness? Dancing ? Gay guys?

All over a few winners .

I think we all learnt a long time ago that there will always be good & not so good days when punting that volumn of bets .

I enjoyed a 42% SR on Sat. with a computer program I use , but thats not always the case.

I always stop at my 5th winner or 20th loser, whichever comes first on the day.

Min acceptable price is 4.00 ,othwise , no bet that race.

It works well.

[Mr barry]

I think we all learnt a long time ago that there will always be good & not so good days when punting that volumn of bets .
I always stop at my 5th winner or 20th loser, whichever comes first on the day.

By a couple of statements you have made Bhagwan you have learnt not much other than how to restrict your winning progress and cement in your losers.
What if your next 5 bets were winners?.

[Mr barry]

I'm glad I never got sucked in to backing your tips :)

I figure that a dollar on each of your selections to win produces a hefty loss.
And if not for the Port Lincoln Meeting, you certainly would have been dancing naked due to losing your shirt :)Moeee I think thats how investing goes mate, one or two areas or ideas often keep you in the game.

[Mr barry]

Let me later on today throw up today's selections and see if we kick butt again today.

[Merriguy]

I'm with Moeee here. Backing all the favs would, on average, give a 30 - 32% result. And a loss.

10/45 is only 22%.

Still Good Luck. Will follow with interest.

[darkydog2002]

Mr Barry,
I was discussing the Platinimum with some old friends (Larry and daughter) from the Gold Coast.Well known in the punting world.
They said your probably having too many bets.
Their suggestion is eliminating all horses with the beginning letter of the day.
i.e if today is Monday eliminate any horse with the letter M
Tuesday = any with the letter T
etc etc
And are you checking the jockey and horses Biorythms for the day.?
Hope thats of some help.
Cheers
darky

[darkydog2002]

Hey Mooee,
Would Martin Gales infallible Staking Plan improve the profit?

[Mr barry]

I'm glad I never got sucked in to backing your tips :)

I figure that a dollar on each of your selections to win produces a hefty loss.
:)Actually I turned an incredible profit yesterday, you may be familiar with the term "You can lead a horse to water".

[Mr barry]

And if not for the Port Lincoln Meeting, you certainly would have been dancing naked due to losing your shirt :)Thats like saying if not for the winners I would have lost.

[Mr barry]

I didn't even look at em, just presumed that when you said that most of them won, I figured you'd had a field day (as we say in the UK)

The ACID test is still (and always has been, always will be) level stakes on each selection , over time does it show a profit???That LOSS CHASING plan flat stakes? Flat stakes is for the birds. Now, even my mate BCM knows that Kelly beats flat stakes hands down. My staking plan improves on Kelly.

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,
I was discussing the Platinimum with some old friends (Larry and daughter) from the Gold Coast.Well known in the punting world.
They said your probably having too many bets.
Their suggestion is eliminating all horses with the beginning letter of the day.
i.e if today is Monday eliminate any horse with the letter M
Tuesday = any with the letter T
etc etc
And are you checking the jockey and horses Biorythms for the day.?
Hope thats of some help.
Cheers
darkyThats just plain dumb mate, do you not think this is a serious betting plan? I can assure you that the results I am seeing are very real.
PS: No surprises that you and Larry are cobbers.

[Mr barry]

I'm with Moeee here. Backing all the favs would, on average, give a 30 - 32% result. And a loss.

10/45 is only 22%.

Still Good Luck. Will follow with interest.Who mentioned favs? and what on earth does s/r have to do with profits.

[partypooper]

Gee, 48 years of punting and I've learned absolute Zilch (apparently)

Consider this : you are right if you have a "WINNING" plan at level stakes, a good staking plan will increase "profits" it will NOT increase Profit on Turnover, so in other words just increase stakes at levels........ same thing!

[darkydog2002]

Just trying to be helpful Mr Barry.
Why not save a $10,000 bank and test it in the meantime.
I have to agree with you re Larry.He is well known for quality information.
You dont get to fly around in Helicopters without some brains eh.

Or you could send me the rules and Larry and I could tweak it for you.

I,ve also got the Buckansneer here.That also might help you to the winning path.After all it is a ppm method.

[Mr barry]

Gee, 48 years of punting and I've learned absolute Zilch (apparently)

Consider this : you are right if you have a "WINNING" plan at level stakes, a good staking plan will increase "profits" it will NOT increase Profit on Turnover, so in other words just increase stakes at levels........ same thing!I agree.
You have learned absolutely Zilch but you are not alone.


Ma tana ka aha

[Mr barry]

Just trying to be helpful Mr Barry.
Why not save a $10,000 bank and test it in the meantime.
I have to agree with you re Larry.He is well known for quality information.
You dont get to fly around in Helicopters without some brains eh.

Or you could send me the rules and Larry and I could tweak it for youCheers for that Darky, I will send through Bank Account details for the $10k you are offering and I will let you know the results in a weeks time.

[darkydog2002]

Probably best just to send the rules.

[Mr barry]

Probably best just to send the rules.No no no Darky, I don't need you getting filthy rich on this without a kickback for me.
Here's the deal 80-20 in favour of the creator.
Besides the rules are very simplistic and I wouldn't want you to have the embarrassment of struggling with them.

[Mr barry]

Look guys I thought this was a serious forum.
Management help please?.

[darkydog2002]

Ok .Good luck with it .
There,s not much simpler than eliminating a horse with a particular letter in its name.
Only 2 horses won today with a M in its name.
As larry said there,s not much simpler than a punter so simple systems should be their forte.Glad your aboard.

[Mr barry]

Here are Saturdays to again show how genuine I am.

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asc R01 # 1 Insurgency

asc R02 # 3 Greatwall Of China

asc R03 # 3 Oscar Wildly

asc R04 # 1 Revy Jay

asc R06 # 8 Colour Correct

asc R07 # 2 Mister Moneypenny

asc R07 # 9 All Friared Up

asc R08 # 5 Blacksmith

asc R08 # 8 Wolfe Dreams

asc R09 # 2 Hallowell Express

bed R05 # 2 Captanpauli

bed R07 # 2 Twichintime

bed R08 # 2 Sir Charlemagne

cau R07 # 8 Purple

cau R07 # 7 Ginga Dude

cau R09 #12 Believe 'n Achieve

cau R09 # 3 Culminate

eaf R01 # 1 Random Orbit

eaf R03 # 2 Friday Nights

eaf R07 # 2 Raeburn

eaf R07 # 6 Sea Skye

eaf R08 #11 Temple Of Boom

fab R01 # 1 Rocky Bay

fab R01 # 3 Kingsford

fab R02 # 2 Hostile Element

fab R02 # 3 Royal Steal

fab R03 # 2 Messi Magic

fab R03 # 3 Mondello

fab R05 # 2 Chevrolet Lad

gco R05 # 1 I Need To Fly

gco R07 # 2 Falvelizabeth

gco R08 # 2 Triskele

ham R04 # 1 Danzin Heart

mop R01 # 3 Anguissola

mop R04 # 2 Ocsmepop

mop R04 # 6 Tuscan Wonder

mop R06 # 3 Dr Doute's

mop R08 #16 Alkhafif

new R01 # 5 Soi'vebeentold

new R02 # 2 The Last General

new R04 # 2 Silent Symphony

new R05 #10 Zastava

new R07 # 5 Merger Benefits

new R08 # 6 Romanus

new R08 #11 Admiral's Cup

ran R02 # 3 Mr Edison

ran R04 # 4 Legsman

ran R05 # 1 Buffering

ran R05 # 4 Obsequious

ran R08 # 3 Ego's Dare

roc R02 # 4 Cote Du Rhone

roc R03 # 4 Boberg

roc R05 # 3 Kalkie Miss

tbc R01 # 2 Sheldon

tbc R02 # 9 Heza Flashman

tbc R03 # 2 Renmark

tbc R04 # 7 Nastro Blu

tbc R05 # 4 Grey Mambo

tbc R06 # 1 Dusty's Felt

tbc R07 # 9 Pampered Lass

[darkydog2002]

Sorry,Just having a bit of fun.
Cheers
darky

[wesmip1]

Mr Barry,

I thought Kelly staking was proven to be the optimal strategy for betting if you are confident your pricing is more correct then the public. There has been about a thousand research papers on it. If you have somehow mathematically proven that you can beat the kelly staking over 1 million bets then you could write a research paper and have world fame. I for one would be very interested in it.

Any chance you could explain it a little bit for me, either in email or here on the forum.

[partypooper]

G'day again Mr. Barry well ok, In can see that what you, said about leading the horse etc etc. holds DEFINITELY true.

On my part I tried to get you to see that ANY staking plan is really only increasing stakes, .... you refuse to see it, in other words you refuse to drink!

As a last word, I know you are wrong about 1 thing, that is that I haven't learnt anything in 48 years, cos one thing that we seen over, over, over again on this forum is the MILLION DOLLAR ideas that have "ALL" shrunk into oblivion, now I know you will only take that as a knock, when all darky, me, etc were trying to do in the first place is give you a helping hand.

Mr Barry, these are the facts for a place bettor long term (and I'm talking about 20,000 bets up) 4% Profit on turnover LEVEL STAKES, is the ultimate, for win betting, the absolute BEST in the country would make 8-10% POT. Even Betfair is happy with 5%, most of the opinion bookies I suspect would be happy with 10%, gee even the ************ tote only makes 15% gross!

Even ************ CROWN casino is ecstatic with 2% (about)

But if Mr Barry can beat all that GREAT, you will have a great sailing future on something that rivals Gregs "canoe"


Just as an explanation, what we mean by POT (profit on turnover) is the % profit on all bets, i.e say on your staking plan you have a TOTAL stakes of $100,000 (ALL BETS ADDED UP) and you have shown a profit of $5,000 so you have a POT of 5%. (thats just for those that don't know)

Now I would never expect that you would reveal the golden goose to the likes of us at ANY price , (now that would be the act of an absolute nutter)

But, just to humour, if you can post b4 the races as you have been doing (credit where its due) and show a level stakes profit, over say a modest 1000 bets I will eat humble pie till I throw up!

Because NO-ONE has ever managed not even 10% of THAT.

You have a challenge!

PS are you a Kiwi?(Maori)?

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

I thought Kelly staking was proven to be the optimal strategy for betting if you are confident your pricing is more correct then the public. There has been about a thousand research papers on it. If you have somehow mathematically proven that you can beat the kelly staking over 1 million bets then you could write a research paper and have world fame. I for one would be very interested in it.

Any chance you could explain it a little bit for me, either in email or here on the forum.Sorry but I must respectfully decline your request, I suggest you just keep watching and learn.

[Mr barry]

Very long post Partypooper, I took just 2 things out of it.
1) You don't like Kiwis
2) You don't like Cuzzies

Oh and do you like your Pie warm?.

Stay tuned for Wednesday when I will place the bets up before the first race.

[wesmip1]

Sorry but I must respectfully decline your request, I suggest you just keep watching and learn.
Mr Barry,

You said part of your technique is the stakng plan. Withoutb revealing it I have no way to learn. :(

[Mr barry]

Gentlemen and Darky out of the generosity of my heart are today's investments. As stated before I wont be in all likelihood taking them all, but the majority will in all probability be selections.

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bat R03 # 2 Chalfont

bat R03 #11 Comedy Express (Darky's Posts)

bat R04 # 2 Drop Of Magic (thats this investment method)

bat R05 # 2 Bellshasar

bat R07 # 3 Natural Star (Me)

bat R08 # 1 Grand Cause

gra R01 # 4 Precious Qualo

gra R01 # 8 S********s (This wont copy over due to over policing rules, but you know who it is)

gra R02 # 2 Faker (Darky you are popular today mate)

gra R04 # 1 My Opinion (Not interested in it Partypooper)

gra R07 #13 Ratanga

gra R08 # 3 Rodeo Playboy (No this isn't you Darky)

gra R09 # 6 Subculture (Some punting forums are like this)

kyn R03 # 8 Ruby Slippers

kyn R05 # 2 Viallico

kyn R05 # 4 Pliers (to open Darky's Wallet with)

kyn R06 # 1 Reflection (many of you need to do this with your punting to become winners)

kyn R07 # 1 Kimorra

mac R01 # 3 Heart In Tennesse

mac R02 # 1 Frigid (One of your horses is it Darky?)

mac R05 # 1 Achill Island

mac R05 # 2 Gaseosa

mac R05 # 7 Umbrage

mac R06 # 3 Blitzkrieg

Had to play around lads with some of the Platinum's selections names today for a laugh.

[partypooper]

Love Kiwis/NZ, spent 2 years in Takapuna my eldest daughter was born there.

whats' a cuzzie? (I've led a sheltererd life)


Looking forward to that pie (1000 bets/level stakes remember)

[Mr barry]

Love Kiwis/NZ, spent 2 years in Takapuna my eldest daughter was born there.

whats' a cuzzie? (I've led a sheltererd life)


Looking forward to that pie (1000 bets/level stakes remember)1000 bets? I passed that years ago. And you didn't listen did you, level stakes is for pretenders.
A cuzzie is a Maori.

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

You said part of your technique is the stakng plan. Withoutb revealing it I have no way to learn. :(Even following Poopers level stakes dream today you would have made a few quid.

[Mr barry]

Ok I think you are starting to get the picture after another superb winning day with the Platinum, of course most of you dreamers like Wesmip1 have decided to sit back and wait until I have had the 1000 bets at level stakes and proven nothing that I didn't already know. Those who were brave and intelligent enough waded in and got the chocolates.
I will sit back and again wait for the boot to go in.

[darkydog2002]

NZ eh.I remember it well from the 70,s.Used to belong to the Morons Motor Cycle Club.
I hear they,ve disbanded and moved to Australia to become Graffiti Artists.

[wesmip1]

Mr Barry,

If you past 1000 bets on this method years ago then I have to aska a few things.

1. Why aren't you rich already?
2.What is your base bet? If you are not using level stakes you truely are not betting at any decent money. You can't run any loss chasing plan with more then maybe a $2 base bet.


If you want credibility then do something like "Arakaan'sSearch For Money" or "TheAnalyser tries Laying". Both threads from a different forum (sorry) but they provide detailed profit loss figures every day and post all their selections before the race with no statements like "I won't be taking all of them". If you don't have a rule before the race on whether the selection is being taken then its worth crap posting it. I could just provide a list of all favs here and say "I won't be taking all of them" and then only count the winners.

By all means provide the selections, the rules on which horses should be backed if its based on price and the staking method and then you will be given credit where credit is due (if it shows a profit). No one can learn anything from you if you don't provide these things.





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[partypooper]

Well Mr. Barry, I would always be the first one to say that 1 days results means nothing, a bad start but we forgot to tell you about the "forum curse"

No dreamer here, cold hard facts are: your bets today:

Win Bets 21..Hits 5... S/R 23.81%...Rets 15.30 W/L -5.70 %POT = -27.14%


Place bets21..Hits..10 S/r..47.62%..Rets..17.00 W/L - 4 %POT = -19.05%

I've used BEST TOTE there as well, now unless I've missed a winner or two you were a long way from a level stakes profit (today that is)

I acknowledge that it would have only taken one of those bigger priced place getters to have got up and it would have been a different story, but that's the old story eh?

[Mr barry]

Well Mr. Barry, I would always be the first one to say that 1 days results means nothing, a bad start but we forgot to tell you about the "forum curse"

No dreamer here, cold hard facts are: your bets today:

Win Bets 21..Hits 5... S/R 23.81%...Rets 15.30 W/L -5.70 %POT = -27.14%


Place bets21..Hits..10 S/r..47.62%..Rets..17.00 W/L - 4 %POT = -19.05%

I've used BEST TOTE there as well, now unless I've missed a winner or two you were a long way from a level stakes profit (today that is)Poopers have you been drinking?. Recheck the results mate I think you will find possibly why you have not won for the last 40 years, you are even struggling with basic calculations.

be a little bit more forgiving to poopers as a few of the races had more than one selection so s/r doesn't prove much, a race s/r rate would be a little bit fairer.

[Mr barry]

NZ eh.I remember it well from the 70,s.Used to belong to the Morons Motor Cycle Club.
I hear they,ve disbanded and moved to Australia to become Graffiti Artists.Still the head honcho aren't you mate?.

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

If you past 1000 bets on this method years ago then I have to aska a few things.

1. Why aren't you rich already?
Who says I am not?.

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

If you past 1000 bets on this method years ago then I have to aska a few things.


2.What is your base bet? If you are not using level stakes you truely are not betting at any decent money. You can't run any loss chasing plan with more then maybe a $2 base bet.



<table class="bordercolor" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="windowbg7" valign="center" width="4%" align="middle"></td><td class="windowbg7" valign="center"></td></tr></tbody></table>Thats none of your business and has no relevance, I repeat again I am not using a loss chasing plan, read my first post again.

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

If you past 1000 bets on this method years ago then I have to aska a few things.


If you want credibility then do something like "Arakaan'sSearch For Money" or "TheAnalyser tries Laying". Both threads from a different forum (sorry) but they provide detailed profit loss figures every day and post all their selections before the race with no statements like "I won't be taking all of them". If you don't have a rule before the race on whether the selection is being taken then its worth crap posting it. I could just provide a list of all favs here and say "I won't be taking all of them" and then only count the winners.


<table class="bordercolor" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="windowbg7" valign="center" width="4%" align="middle"></td><td class="windowbg7" valign="center"></td></tr></tbody></table>I am not after credibility, now come on most of my bets today were not short priced favourites.

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

If you past 1000 bets on this method years ago then I have to aska a few things.

By all means provide the selections, the rules on which horses should be backed if its based on price and the staking method and then you will be given credit where credit is due (if it shows a profit). No one can learn anything from you if you don't provide these things.


What do you think I am a fool and have you and plenty of others erode my profitability.

[partypooper]

My apologies Mr Barry, (though you make it hard) yes I copied and pasted your selections and some how it didn't copy the last 2 at Mackay , I'll blame the comp. Anyway here are the very impressive corrected results:

Win Bets 24..Hits 7... S/R 29.17...Rets 40.3 [W/L +16.3 %] POT = +67.92%


Place bets24..Hits..12 S/R..50.%..Rets..23.3 [W/L -.70 % ]POT = -3.33%

As I said before 1 days results means nothing,Looking forward to much more pie!

PS just one question, didn't you say that you had twigged on this brilliant idea a week ago? just wondered how you managed to get in over 1000bets in a week?

[Mr barry]

My apologies Mr Barry, (though you make it hard) yes I copied and pasted your selections and some how it didn't copy the last 2 at Mackay , I'll blame the comp. Anyway here are the very impressive corrected results:

Win Bets 24..Hits 7... S/R 29.17...Rets 40.3 [W/L +16.3 %] POT = +67.92%


Place bets24..Hits..12 S/R..50.%..Rets..23.3 [W/L -.70 % ]POT = -3.33%

As I said before 1 days results means nothing,Looking forward to much more pie!

PS just one question, didn't you say that you had twigged on this brilliant idea a week ago? just wondered how you managed to get in over 1000bets in a week?Yes sorry PP I need to point out that in my original post that I twigged to the idea a week ago to posting the platinum on here to help some others but by the looks of some of the posted replies help is not needed as many are doing very nicely thank you already.

[wesmip1]

Keep the selections coming please.. always interested to see what people are tipping.

[partypooper]

Ok I have twigged to an idea that is GOING to make me millions, I am currently looking at launches on the web that I am LIKELY to be able to afford in the next week or so the way things are going, when I get over the mega winning day today I will post some of the results for you. It has been killing it for OVER A WEEK NOW and THIS TIME I am sure I am onto the NEXT big thing.

Have a good evening, more tomorrow.

Goodonya, Mr barry

We all love to see a winner, it gives us hope!

[moeee]

When someone comes along and brings life to the Forum, its always the case for plenty members to destroy them and drive them away.
And drive their winning tips away.

This bloke is doing very well and is providing much to everyone prepared to look and possibly profit from.

Its a shame he won't provide more information on how the selections came about , rather than the selections themslves though.

Because I can see he gonna fall on his ******** as well , but I'm not hoping he will , its just enevitable.
It happens to all of us.
Thats why we here.
To seek comfort and solace in knowing we aren't the only Losers on this planet.

[Mr barry]

Poopers you have to start reading what is in front of you and interpret or assume.
My post as you highlight says it has been killing it for over a week now, it DOES NOT say that I have been only doing it for a week.

Please refer to this, read and absorb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_whispers

[wesmip1]

Mr Barry,

Please keep posting selections. Surely ou have some for today at Geelong (and other tracks)?

[Mr barry]

Mr Barry,

Please keep posting selections. Surely ou have some for today at Geelong (and other tracks)?give me 2 hours and they will be up.

[Mr barry]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]><object classid="clsid:38481807-CA0E-42D2-BF39-B33AF135CC4D" id=ieooui></object> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#ieooui) **** </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";**** </style> <![endif]--> asc R04 # 9 Regol Street

asc R04 #10 Sealynx

asc R06 # 4 Fumio

can R02 # 7 Bedouin Express

can R03 # 1 Future Solution

can R04 # 2 Milanesa

can R06 # 6 Mafia Miss

eaf R01 #11 Miss Cutie

eaf R02 # 7 Warringah

eaf R03 # 3 If It Can It Will

eaf R04 # 2 Metallurgical

eaf R05 # 8 Win A Million

eaf R06 # 2 Sway To Go

eaf R06 # 3 Imagery

eaf R07 # 3 Aquaterra

gee R01 #11 Kookaburras

gee R03 # 2 I'm The Fiddle

gee R04 # 8 Brampton

gee R07 #11 Princess Narine

gee R08 # 3 No Wine No Song

gee R09 # 6 Cyclone Al

gee R09 # 7 Garozzo

str R02 # 1 Cosmic Ruler

str R05 #10 Schoorwin

str R06 # 3 Vinard

str R07 # 7 Hold That Conquest

str R08 # 5 Budriguez

[darkydog2002]

Take a tip from this old Master Punter .
Eliminate any horse without a "R" in its name., and under $8.
Only too pleased to add my professional assistance and good luck today.
Gees I,m good to you.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[darkydog2002]

But Barry where would you get any ideas if I didnt stimulate your brain.
In all forms of betting one has to take the longterm view (not as in your case a couple of successful races)

cheers
darky

[darkydog2002]

Cripes Bazza 95 % on TO in the 1st race (I can call ya Bazza cant I seeing we,re old mates)
I take it that this is a Stop At A winner Plan.
Or is this a Stop at a PLACE Plan.?
Cheers
darky

[partypooper]

Aw, c'mon Mr Barry just a bit of funny stirring, and anyway I feel that you are ******** bent on making me eat that "pie" and I hope you do!

[wesmip1]

Cmon guys give himself a chance to prove himself.

Tough day today though with 21 bets and only 2 winners at $1.80 and $3.60.

[darkydog2002]

Yeah.We were all dreamers once and it does keep the system sellers and Rating men in cash.
The reality is that its more likely (if your lucky) to have realistic profit figures like these ( from a Free daily Best Bet and one of the better ones)
131 bets /Turnover $9825 /Profit $266.
Unfortunately unless your betting 100,s of thousands in bets one wont make a decent living from punting and your money is best invested in a account that has reasonable interest.
Cheers
darky

[Mr barry]

Post deleted.


If you feel another user is an idiot, that's your business. No-one cares. Don't post about it in the forums. Add them to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the TOU violation function.

[Mr barry]

Cmon guys give himself a chance to prove himself.

Tough day today though with 21 bets and only 2 winners at $1.80 and $3.60.Move on mate, Darky has far to much say here and has destroyed it for anyone with 1/2 a brain.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[partypooper]

2 days results (on their own) don't mean a thing, but for the record:

Bets 45 Wins 9 ..S/R =20% rets 46.10 (best tote) Win 1.1 = 2.44% POT

Ave. Price of Winners = $5.12

That $20 winner might have been at Eagle farm..... who knows?

[lomaca]

Post deleted. Quoting a flame.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

If you feel another user is an idiot, that's your business. No-one cares. Don't post about it in the forums. Add them to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the TOU violation function.

[darkydog2002]

A bit of a overeaction there Bazza.
The reality of betting often shocks some but better to know now before ALL the hard earned is squandered trying to beat the game.
Punting on horses is a Negative Sum Game.

[Mr barry]

A bit of a overeaction there Bazza.
The reality of betting often shocks some but better to know now before ALL the hard earned is squandered trying to beat the game.
Punting on horses is a Negative Sum Game.Here he goes again, come on management I thought this was a winning punters forum?.

[darkydog2002]

What I,m saying is have REALISTIC expectations of what can be achieved on the punt.
In my earlier example of a $9825 TO /Profit $266 is 2.7 % on TO
The late Ian Barnes said He,d be ecstatic with a POT of 4 % but was never able to achieve that long term.
The Late Don Scott achieved 5 % longterm but in his day he was the very best.
Re Barry .He may have animosity towards me because after 44 years I know whats real and he cant yet accept that.He will in time I,m sure.
I,m sorry if I,ve burst his bubble but he,s not just the only one who reads this post and better to know now than be constantly striving to achieve the impossible.
Cheers
darky

[Bhagwan]

Darky is very good to Bazza.

Even though Bazza calls him mean names & stuff.

Where Darky has only ever shown him kindness of heart.

The Bhagwan will now pray for Bazza & may the Punting Gods show him the path to humility & peace of soul.

[partypooper]

Hey Mr. Barry (is that a nom de plume, or your real name? look at the views you've accumulated, nothing like a bit of conflict eh?

You know not every one is your enemy , I'm enjoying rooting for your nags, especially Sealynx and Fumio as they were also my bets, today though I managed to get out in front with Its a star.

Keep posting!

[Mr barry]

I will be unable to post until a bit later today guys, say around 3pm.

[darkydog2002]

My thoughts exactly Guru Bhagwan.Let our minds join together to spread love and harmony to Bazza.

Oh and by the way where,s me orange robe I lent ya.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[Mr barry]

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";**** </style> <![endif]--> Here are todays sure fire winners.


bar R02 # 4 Red Savina

bar R04 # 6 Tea For Three

bar R05 # 2 Them's The Rules

bar R06 #10 Head North

bar R07 # 6 Masai Miss

bar R07 # 7 Yau Chin

haw R01 # 6 Dolled Up

haw R04 # 1 Vilayet

haw R04 # 4 Our Magicgaze

haw R06 # 4 Judi's Law

roc R02 # 1 Pandemonia

roc R02 # 2 Run Kylie Run

roc R03 # 4 Refuhrence

roc R06 # 1 Three Little Words

[darkydog2002]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[moeee]

Post deleted. A nasty flame.

[darkydog2002]

Not quite but much better.Thanks for asking.
Hey Mooee With Barrys selections I,m a bit confused so I,ll ask.
Are we betting to win or to lose with Betfair.?
Cheers
darky

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[moeee]

Hey Mooee With Barrys selections I,m a bit confused so I,ll ask.
Are we betting to win or to lose with Betfair.?
Cheers
darky

I can only speak for myself, and I am adding up how much a dollar a win on the TAB would cost if I did in fact wager on all his animals, and to Tally up what the TAB would return to me had I done so.
Only pretend money though , because I don't trust people in Real Life , much less on the internet, that claim situations are as brilliant , or in your case Darky, as dire , and I figure I would be a bigger fool to do so than I already am.

But if the bloke did win, I would like to know how he did it so I could apply the reasoning to my studies.
No great loss to my situation really whether he does depart except for the entertainment value really.
And Darky, I not really much amused by your numerous posts, but I do appreciate that you help keep this Forum alive by doing so.

Letters and Numbers systems is silly because horses ain't been to school.
Trigger is the only horse what can count and Mr. Ed is the only one what can read and neither are Thouroughbreds.

[Mr barry]

I can only speak for myself, and I am adding up how much a dollar a win on the TAB would cost if I did in fact wager on all his animals, and to Tally up what the TAB would return to me had I done so.
Only pretend money though , because I don't trust people in Real Life , much less on the internet, that claim situations are as brilliant , or in your case Darky, as dire , and I figure I would be a bigger fool to do so than I already am.

But if the bloke did win, I would like to know how he did it so I could apply the reasoning to my studies.
No great loss to my situation really whether he does depart except for the entertainment value really.
And Darky, I not really much amused by your numerous posts, but I do appreciate that you help keep this Forum alive by doing so.

Letters and Numbers systems is silly because horses ain't been to school.
Trigger is the only horse what can count and Mr. Ed is the only one what can read and neither are Thouroughbreds.Oh dear Moeee, you now show your colours again with your next post.
Moeee if you are betting still with the TAB mate either you are an absolute genius and most books have closed you down or an absolute fool like you state you are.
I think we all know the answer Moeee.

[darkydog2002]

Yeah I was a bit rude responding to his own rudeness.
I tend to take no prisoners in my responses.
I too wish him well and I too am recording the selections from today (flat stakes)
My initial thoughts are that there would need to be a very high strike rate to compensate for the prices but only time will tell.
In the meantime its all good fun in the recording and keeps the old brain active.
Cheers
darky

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming and defamatory.

[moeee]

Post deleted. Off topic.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[partypooper]

Day 3

Bets 59... Hits= 12....S/R 20.34%...Rets. 55.10 Win/Lose -3.9.. LOT 6.61%

Average price of winners = $4.49


2-300 bets would indicate expected profitability, but its about 1000bets when a bad day hardly causes a ripple on the stats.

And as I've said several times 1 bad day, or even a bad month should not cause too much concern after many thousands of bets with a proven plan.

[Mr barry]

Thank PP for your update mate, very helpful for you to do this for me.

And Darky I must appologise for going at you me old mate, hopefully we can put it behind us old pal and get on with winning.

[darkydog2002]

Good on you Mr Barry.
Cheers
darky

[Mr barry]

Will be no post of bets tomorrow as I am out of town.

[wesmip1]

What I,m saying is have REALISTIC expectations of what can be achieved on the punt.
In my earlier example of a $9825 TO /Profit $266 is 2.7 % on TO
The late Ian Barnes said He,d be ecstatic with a POT of 4 % but was never able to achieve that long term.
The Late Don Scott achieved 5 % longterm but in his day he was the very best.
Re Barry .He may have animosity towards me because after 44 years I know whats real and he cant yet accept that.He will in time I,m sure.
I,m sorry if I,ve burst his bubble but he,s not just the only one who reads this post and better to know now than be constantly striving to achieve the impossible.
Cheers
darky
I can show you several threads where people have made more then 4% over a lot of bets. Maria for instance. It can be done and it is done by clever people. Whether Mr Barry is one s still to be proven ... mayb he is ... more then likely he falls into the 95% of punters though but until I see a few hundred bets I won't make any judgement.

[partypooper]

Mr Barry, try and get your selections up mate as I feel at least 5-10 winners looming, always happens after a couple of bad days (well nearly always)

by the way, can you send me a bit of whatever you've had today? hahahahah!

just joking!

[Mr barry]

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ben R01 # 5 Tiger's Paws

ben R02 # 1 Star Of Jeune

ben R02 # 2 Chosen One

ben R04 #13 Twizzle

ben R06 # 1 Gala Guzzler

ben R07 # 1 Royal Grace

ben R07 # 6 Testy Girl

ben R08 # 9 Miss Nederlands

ben R08 #13 Solarco

coh R01 # 1 Hackers

coh R02 # 2 Coolcap

coh R02 #10 Baltic

coh R03 # 3 Capital Raising

coh R05 # 3 King Shane

coh R06 # 4 Dash's Princess

coh R07 # 8 Erinsea

ger R01 # 1 Annear

ger R03 # 1 Classic Drop

ger R04 # 2 Comanchero

ger R04 # 4 Vienna Charm

ger R05 # 3 Temple Church

ger R06 # 6 Miss Sambuca

ger R07 # 3 Chief Of War

ips R06 # 4 Lissoy's Lass

tam R01 # 4 Alannet

tam R05 # 2 Oribi

tam R06 # 2 Sage Of Omaha

tam R08 # 3 El Zegri

tam R09 #11 Mik Yelrow

[moeee]

Moeee if you are betting still with the TAB mate you are an absolute genius and most books have closed you down


Thanks buddy.
And how do you get set for your TRIFECTAS and EXACTAS?
In fact, I'm even having trouble finding a book that will provide me with Place Odds on the Greyhounds.
Could you let me know where you get set on those as well please?

[darkydog2002]

Wesmip,
In the way2bet example at one stage the bank doubled and was showing 26.9 % on TO.
And although the bank was never in trouble at any stage the profit and POT was quickly whittled down to more realistic figures.
One hopes that it doesnt go any lower but there can be no certainty.

Cheers
darky

[lomaca]

Wesmip,
In the way2bet example at one stage the bank doubled and was showing 26.9 % on TO.
And although the bank was never in trouble at any stage the profit and POT was quickly whittled down to more realistic figures.
One hopes that it doesnt go any lower but there can be no certainty.

Cheers
darkyOK then what would you say to a system that works two days a week has an ave. 3.5 bets/day on those days and returns 87% POT on win and 31% POT for the place?

I can't give it to you because it's not mine but if the originator so deems then it's yours. I'm not using it and never will, because I have a better one (far from having as big of a POT of course, I bet more often than that!)

Good luck.

[darkydog2002]

lomaca,
I,d say that there were 3 possibilities.

1/ The system has been backdated and any future profit will be tenuous at best.

2/The system has not been used any any long period of time in real life.

3/ This is the best system that has been developed since racing began in the 1800,s

If 3 applies dont let it out of your sight for a second.

[lomaca]

lomaca,
I,d say that there were 3 possibilities.

1/ The system has been backdated and any future profit will be tenuous at best.

2/The system has not been used any any long period of time in real life.

3/ This is the best system that has been developed since racing began in the 1800,s

If 3 applies dont let it out of your sight for a second.
Only six months, so you might be right!
Good luck

[darkydog2002]

With the way2bet selections up to today there were 132 selections at outlay $75 a daily bet .The profit to this point is $216 or average daily profit of $1.63
The starting bank was $5000 and allows for a 67 straight loss ratio.

I dont think one will make their fortune with this one and frankly a waste of effort.

However it has beaten any commercial system I,ve ever tested and I,ve tested hundreds.

Cheers
darky

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming. You are NOT permitted to "warn" other members about what they can not post here. If you have an objection send in a TOU.

[wesmip1]

With the way2bet selections up to today there were 132 selections at outlay $75 a daily bet .The profit to this point is $216 or average daily profit of $1.63
The starting bank was $5000 and allows for a 67 straight loss ratio.

I dont think one will make their fortune with this one and frankly a waste of effort.

However it has beaten any commercial system I,ve ever tested and I,ve tested hundreds.

Cheers
darky
People can make more then 4% long term .. that was my only point. THe good systems are not made commercial.

[partypooper]

Day4

Bets 80..Hits18...S/R=22.5%...Rets.=73.80...Win -6.20 POT = -7.75%

Ave. price of winners = $4.10c




Well, I was right about 5-10 winners but just didn't quite do the business for ya, maybe tomorrow will turn it around.

Incidentally the place is just in profit (best tote available)

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[moeee]

never mind mr.barry

i make a fool of myself on occasions as well

[partypooper]

Gee, I'm not sure how it got to this, Mr barry, you know; considering the "Forum Curse" these 4 days are not that bad, I mean it would be a miracle to start posting on a winning run, it just doesn't happen.

In fact your selections over 4 days , 80 bets no less are very close to break even (EW)

That is NOT a bad result, why don't you reconsider (if only to prove a point) say, post for 10 days and that's it win or lose?

hOW ABOUT IT?

[moeee]

why don't you reconsider (if only to prove a point) say, post for 10 days and that's it win or lose?

hOW ABOUT IT?

And what possible benefit would another 6 days of the previous 4 be?
There is no knowledge being passed on.
Its only "LOOK AT ME,LOOK AT ME" - and how rude he is.

Obviously PartyPooper is a wannabbe ProPunter but ain't makin' it.
If you want to read some success stories and how they were achieved, Google up some gambling Blogs.
There are heaps out there.
Plenty of real time information where real errors have been made and their avoidance can improve your methods.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[moeee]

Post deleted. Please don't quote flames.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. You posted "I don't give a monkeys about the guidelines." Please read the Terms of Use.

[darkydog2002]

Mr Barry,
I really do wish you well and hope you can beat the game.
Most punters in punterland have tried and came to my conclusion that money in the bank gaining a good interest is the way to go and while punting is fun and mentally stimulating as a past time with little collects here and there to further stimulate the interest its not really going to make one any money unless betting in hundreds of thousands of dollars.

However you just may be the exception to the rule and I wish you good luck with it.

Cheers
darky

[partypooper]

just one point Moeee, you are correct I certainly do have aspirations of living off the punt,and despite having one proven plan, I haven't quite made it yet, I just can't get the turnover to make enough, thats why I'm always looking for something new. one day......maybe!

[moeee]

I just can't get the turnover to make enough, thats why I'm always looking for something new. one day......maybe!

You can't get the turnover?
Does that mean you are winning in the long run but at a very small percentage?

I wonder whether you have attempted incorporating the available Price of the animal into consideration when you place your wagers?

Don Scott used to be somewhat mildly successful in his career change , and then adopted the Value idea into his Methods and just simply went from boiled lollies to chocolates.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[moeee]

Post deleted. Flaming. If you object to a post send in a TOU.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Quoting a flame.

[schmucta80]

Post deleted. If you find a post objectionable all you have to do is send in a TOU by clicking the red triangle.

[moeee]

Post deleted. If you find a post objectionable all you have to do is send in a TOU by clicking the red triangle.

[darkydog2002]

Schumcta 80.
Well at least you got this oldtimer still aboard.
Even in my crazier posts there,s a lesson if one looks for it.

Cheers
darky

[schmucta80]

Post deleted. Flaming. If you find a post objectionable click the red triangle to send in a TOU.

[darkydog2002]

Yeah but I bet you were on the "Pearler" though.

[schmucta80]

Comprehension not your strong suit?

To know what the ******** you are talkin about I would have had to have read your posts lately.

Put two and two together and you may realise just why I have no idea what you are on about.

[Mr barry]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[darkydog2002]

Post deleted. Flaming.

[Bhagwan]

Why has a new friend turned so mean, when all everyone has tried to do is be helpful to him , to improve his funny little system.

He seems to snap at every helpful hand offered.

Only arrogant people, who dont know any better, do that.

It appears the Bhagwans polite warnings to our new friend, were treated with contempt.

Retrabution will now be swift .

[Shaun]

Yes looks like he has been sent to the naughty corner

[lighthuman2010]

Mr Barry,
I really do wish you well and hope you can beat the game.
Most punters in punterland have tried and came to my conclusion that money in the bank gaining a good interest is the way to go and while punting is fun and mentally stimulating as a past time with little collects here and there to further stimulate the interest its not really going to make one any money unless betting in hundreds of thousands of dollars.

However you just may be the exception to the rule and I wish you good luck with it.

Cheers
darky
Darky,

I agree, to make a living from the punt you need to turn over quite a lot each year. And anywhere from 3 - 7% POT would be a great outcome on large turnover.

What i find interesting though, is that you say you have been betting for many many years. Wouldn't this long period have allowed you to build up a sufficient enough bank to reach the turnover you need.? If you were a winning punter over all those years, you would have built your bank to allow enough turnover like you suggest above.

So perhaps Mr Barry is right. Maybe it's just that you can't win at this game.

[darkydog2002]

Lighthuman2010
Making money on the punt is relatively easy BUT you wont make decent money unless your outlaying very large amounts of money and turning that money over constantly with a large volume of bets.
And even then there is no garuntee.
No Professional bets 1 horse a race as the fairy tale system sellers and other dills tell you.
Most of the well known and abused form factors are total rubbish and most of the big payers are just lucky horses on the day.
There is nothing scientific in betting on horses.
Its not the easy road to riches and in my opinion would be the most mind numbing job the good lord ever invented for greedy fools.

In saying that I know no one will accept what I,ve written so its a pointless argument.

Now being somewhat of a dill myself I will bet Taree R 5 H 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 9 - 11 - 12 BUT I want a minimum of $8 about any of them.
Cheers
darky

[lighthuman2010]

Yes, that's what i said. To make serious money from punting you need to turnover serious money. And if you have a large enough bank with a method that has a winning edge, it is not as hard as you think.

Your claim that NO professional punter ever backs only 1 horse per race is completely FALSE.

There are many people out there making a living from the punt and there would be not 2 of them that use the same method. There is plenty of winning methods out there.

Do you know every single person out there who makes a living from the punt? If not, how can you claim that none of them ever back just 1 horse a race?

If you find betting on horses so mind numbing, why are you always writing on horse racing forums?

It is quite clear you have never been able to win at this game, so what you are you are trying to contribute to this punting forum is quite confusing?

[darkydog2002]

As I said its pointless to argue with newcomers to the punt.
I post to educate whats important to consider when looking at a horse
i.e weight /leader or races on the pace/Horse Profiling /The stupidity of betting 1 horse a race etc etc.
I also post wacky ,crazy systems to make a point.The point being that most of the yearly profit come from pure luck and not from some so called scientific infallible method of race horse handicapping.
In the race I mentioned consider why you,d bet a $1.70 Horse when you could bet bet 6 other horses for the place and make a better profit.

Personally I think your looking for a argument and frankly I,m just not interested.

darky

[lighthuman2010]

First of all Darky, i'm new to this forum. But I am not new to the punt.

I make money from it and know several others who do as well.

I also am not looking for an argument, but rather an intelligent debate on your FALSE claims. But it is obvious you are unable to do this.

I don't think anyone here would really be too interested in hearing about how you select your horses considering you are a long-term losing punter.

It's never too late to learn Darky, if you learnt how to listen better you may have more success on the punt.

The fact is, just because you are unable to win, it does not mean no-one else can. There are many out there doing it.

[TWOBETS]

You couldn't be more wrong me thinks. I only ever bet one runner per race, and it's always the fave. This is all I do to make a quid and one of the most important things in my book is to come up with a system that isn't mind numbing. Keep it simple is a great idea.

What Lighthuman says about the bank build up is fundamental to betting largish sums per race. If it's money you've earned from the punt then as the bank grows so do the wagers and yet there is no stress. If it were outside money put in then that's just gambling.....hard to win long term at gambling.

[lighthuman2010]

The stupidity of betting 1 horse a race etc etc.

darky
It seems you are stuck in some old era Darky. You need to keep evolving in this game to stay ahead. Perhaps that has been your downfall.

I know a few people who live off the punt and the majority of races they bet on involves just 1 selection.

It can't be that stupid then, can it?

[Shaun]

Lets break this down a bit, i think most people would be happy with 50k a year from punting, now what would it take to get that sum of money .

We will ignore the fact you need winners with out them nothing is possible, now if you could obtain 5% POT you would need to turn over $1m this works out to a bit under $20k a week, now if you had 50 selections that's about $400 a selection.

Working on a 2% of bank bet you would need a bank of $20k now none of this takes in to account compounding of the bank or downturns or anything else that might happen it is just basic maths.

What this shows you is that you don't need huge amounts of money to make it on the punt, now 20k bank is not a small amount of money and if you don't have that then start with what you have and work on it.

Remember this is a business and 50k a year is a nice wage and many businesses start up costs are a lot more.

In my mind turnover is king and i would aim for 100 plus bets a week.

[Bhagwan]

I have found that the magic percentage to target per day , is 3.5% increase on bank per day.
No more than this.

If one has the ability to do that every day, thats approx 25% increase on bank per week.

Useing the Fibonacci compounding rule of 72
That means the bank would double every 2.88weeks.
72 divided by 25 = 2.88

It can be easily done with the right stratergy.
e.g. Dutching multiple horses and using a well thought out staking plan.

The secret is having the discepline to stop once the percentage is reached.

What generally happens, is that a punter finds himself reaching the 3.5% fairly easy , then says to himself , "lets go again".

For some reason , it starts to get harder & harder to get the next 3.5%
until its all given back & some.

[lighthuman2010]

Bhagwan,

If you are relying on staking plans and stopping at targets for the day, it generally means your selection method does not have a winning edge.

[partypooper]

Lets break this down a bit, i think most people would be happy with 50k a year from punting, now what would it take to get that sum of money .

We will ignore the fact you need winners with out them nothing is possible, now if you could obtain 5% POT you would need to turn over $1m this works out to a bit under $20k a week, now if you had 50 selections that's about $400 a selection.

Working on a 2% of bank bet you would need a bank of $20k now none of this takes in to account compounding of the bank or downturns or anything else that might happen it is just basic maths.

What this shows you is that you don't need huge amounts of money to make it on the punt, now 20k bank is not a small amount of money and if you don't have that then start with what you have and work on it.

Remember this is a business and 50k a year is a nice wage and many businesses start up costs are a lot more.

In my mind turnover is king and i would aim for 100 plus bets a week.







Good solid stuff Shaun, you and I know that is the facts as well (i.e trial and error) although I disagrree with 1 point though, the 2% bit is OK in itself sounds reasonable, but for the vast majority this after a 2 or 3 bad runs would bring on the "RUNS" big time!

So I advocate either LEVEL stakes or at best 1% never reducing!

[TWOBETS]

To my mind party the question of bank percentage is bonded to one's long term SR.

I comfortably run at way more than 2% of bank but that is only because I have the luxury of enjoying an upper end SR.

On this subject I should point out that I feel many people don't know what their SR is. You might have been strictly sticking to a system for many months and think "OK I've got this sussed and the SR is x amount" but then the next year it might perform way better. So what then would the sytems SR be? ( or it might go belly up, but the same problem.....how to calculate SR )

Depending on the system, it might take years to get a spot on assessment. I think it might have been Bagwhan that said whatever you think your run of outs should be with a system's SR then it is a good idea to work on the assumption of doubling it. I use that as a guide anyway and think it good advice.

[Shaun]

Oh i agree with you both on the bet size and staking, i only used 2% as an example.

Only the individual punter knows what they would be comfortable betting, my example just shows that you don't need a massive bank but i would also say it might be best to have double what ever you think you need.

[darkydog2002]

Lighthuman 2010,
Betting 1 horse a race is a recipe for disaster.
There is always a 2 or more horses in any race with a good chance of winning.

[lighthuman2010]

Darky,

We really have to break down your thought processes and rebuild you for you to have any chance of success on the punt.

Of course every race has more than 1 winning chance in the race. Every horse that jumps out of the barrier has some sort of chance of winning its race.

There is many winning methods out there.

Some professionals will only bet 1 horse per race on most occassions.

Some professionals will bet multiple horses or savers per race on most occasions.

There is people out there making good money using either of the above methods. That is FACT.

For you to rule out completely, betting only 1 horse per race, is very naive and makes you look ignorant. (I really do worry you may never make it)

There is no logic behind your theory.

There is many smarter people than you who make good money, and have done so for many years, betting mainly just 1 horse per race.

[darkydog2002]

Post deleted.
Please stick to discussing what is posted. Do not discuss the poster. If you have a serious objection to a particular post then send in a TOU. You can also put any poster of your choice on ignore. Click User CP link at top left then scroll down to Buddy/Ignore Lists link. Thank you.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. Please discuss the merits of what is posted and NOT the poster. Thanks.

[lomaca]

because you haven't been successful, you don't want anyone else to.Hi, I don't buy into the argument, but just want to make a comment.

In all my life I maintained the maxim, that if someone else can do it and be successful in ANY endeavour, I'm happy for them because, I have a chance too.

Once nobody succeeds for whatever reason, we are in deep, deep doodoo!

BTW I hardly ever bet two horses a race, and don't even bother with exotics.

Good luck

[pelicanpete]

Post deleted. If you think somebody is using multiple identities, don't tell them, tell us and we will investigate. Accusing people in error is embarrassing for everybody.

[lighthuman2010]

Please discuss what has been posted and NOT the poster. Thanks.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. Quoting a now moderated post.

[ixlat0]

Post deleted. If you think somebody is using multiple identities, don't tell them, tell us and we will investigate. Accusing people in error is embarrassing for everybody.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted.
Please discuss the contents of what has been posted and NOT the poster. Thanks.
<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

[pelicanpete]

Post deleted. Flaming. If you think somebody is using multiple identities, don't tell them, tell us and we will investigate. Accusing people in error is embarrassing for everybody.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. Replying to a now moderated post.

[peter m]

Most of the well known and abused form factors are total rubbish
Cheers
darky Hi Darky, (or anybody else), just wondered which form factors you considered rubbish and which ones you think are worth considering.

Not asked in an argumentitive way but out of genuine interest.

Also is 2 to 7% P.O.T the most you think that you could reasonably expect to achieve over a long period on the punt.

Thanks Peter

[pelicanpete]

I'm not embarrassed!

[lighthuman2010]

peter m,

2 - 7% POT is certainly achievable. There wouldn't be too many big players around who have better figures than that. If they do, they aren't turning over very much.

In regards to form factors, you can certainly rule out any nonsense such as "using the first letter of the day to find in a horses name as a selection". Unfortunately there is a lot of those ridiculous systems posted on here. And to be honest I would discount everything that any person who posts that stuff says. It will get you no where.

[lighthuman2010]

pelicanpete,

Do you have anything to offer to the discussion in regards to Darky's claims of:

1) That no one can win long term punting horses

2) That no professional punter only backs 1 horse per race

If you do, would love to hear it, otherwise you should listen and try and learn.

[pelicanpete]

Post deleted. You have twice before been moderated and requested that if you think somebody is using multiple identities, don't tell them, tell us and we will investigate. Accusing people in error is embarrassing for everybody.You have chosen to ignore this.
Three moderated posts from just 5 posts is not on. You are now suspended for 7 days.

[lighthuman2010]

pelicanpete,

The moderators have already rejected your false claims of me being Mr Barry, so why don't you concentrate on just the 2 points of discussion I have highlighted above, and communicate like an adult?

[lighthuman2010]

Lighthuman 2010,
Betting 1 horse a race is a recipe for disaster.
There is always a 2 or more horses in any race with a good chance of winning.
Darky,

It seems your problem is fairly simple. It's the problem most typical "bet at the local TAB" punters have.

You seem to think you need to find the winner of every race you bet on.

What you need is a method that selects a group of horses with a long-term edge. Whether that method throws up 1 or 3 or 4 selections per race is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether your method provides value selections long-term.

So putting it in simple terms for you, stop looking for winners and start looking for value.

[peter m]

peter m,

2 - 7% POT is certainly achievable. There wouldn't be too many big players around who have better figures than that. If they do, they aren't turning over very much.

In regards to form factors, you can certainly rule out any nonsense such as "using the first letter of the day to find in a horses name as a selection". Unfortunately there is a lot of those ridiculous systems posted on here. And to be honest I would discount everything that any person who posts that stuff says. It will get you no where.Thanks for the reply lighthuman2010.

Re the first letter of the day and third letter of horse should be ''r'' I kind of figured they were a joke and were made tongue in cheek and to be taken as such.

I was refering more to form factors which are considered important and taken as Gospel such as last start finishing position , beaten lenghts, API, win%, place%, weight on or off, weight above limit, last 3 to 5 start total SP, days last start, fitness patterns etc etc.
Which are rubbish and overused and which are worth taking into consideration ?

[thorns]

Ultimately Peter, I don't believe there is a single correct answer to what to asked. Those factors can all be good and bad, for instance, one of my favourite 'gospel' factors is barrier draws. I like horses starting from unfavourable draws myself and do okay from them, and enjoy laying those in good barrier draws (obviuosly theres more to it than just the barrier draw), but I'm sure there just as many if not, who only consider the favourable draws to back, and lay the outside barriers.

Really, I dont believe there is any form factor you can say is rubbish and totally discount, its more a matter of trying to take all the info into account and making trying to make the right decision.

[lomaca]

I was refering more to form factors which are considered important and taken as Gospel such as last start finishing position , beaten lenghts, API, win%, place%, weight on or off, weight above limit, last 3 to 5 start total SP, days last start, fitness patterns etc etc.
Which are rubbish and overused and which are worth taking into consideration ?Peter,

They are all good factors to be considered, with some reservation.
I'm not going into much detail, there were books written about the subject, just want to give you some idea, I'm using.

Last start finishing position, what value do you put on a 10 len. third in a 6 horse race?

Beaten len. is important, BUT only in conjunction with the class of race and distance + number of runners, it tells you a lot about the horse's form, fitness.

win and place % alone are utterly meaningless, I can point out some horses with 90% place and 50% win, and take them even to a moderate city meeting and they will fail hopelessly.

Weight in my opinion is only important as far as the weight carrying ability of the horse is concerned, once you know that beyond a certain weight it can't win, that's it. Of course you have to compare ALL the horses in the race and then you can give advantage to those with lesser weight.

Weight above limit is misleading, again in my opinion, because the handicapper is badly handicapped by the lower and upper weight limits,
some horses would not have a chance even with the limit weight while the top horse should carry more.

Last 3 or 5 start, I use both, rely on the last 3 to 90% but I look at the last two years to confirm.
This I consider together with the days to last start.

fitness patterns: I have both of the author's (Peter Bent I think) books on this subject, and must admit I couldn't make any sense of it, of course it may just be that I'm a bit slow on the uptake, same as with time rating.

Regarding racing patterns, I studied them for some time and again couldn't make any use of it, I think for the simple reason that horses hardly ever race in the same class or distance every preparations in the same order.

Anyway, these are just a few thoughts, as I said there are many good books about it.

Good luck

[lomaca]

Peter,


(Peter Bent I think) No, sorry it was Barry Blakemore.
He wrote the "Key factor is fitness" and "Fitness the key to winning"

No matter, I didn't understand it anyway!

Good luck

[ixlat0]

This post has been deleted. Off topic. Flaming. No more posts like this thanks.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. Please stop posting nonsense flames. This has NOTHING to do with the topic. Please take careful note of this warning.

[lighthuman2010]

Thanks for the reply lighthuman2010.

Re the first letter of the day and third letter of horse should be ''r'' I kind of figured they were a joke and were made tongue in cheek and to be taken as such.


peter m,

You're welcome.

I assumed most people on here realised they were a joke, but unfortunately the author of such nonsense actually states he backs them himself.

I would hate to think that anyone else would follow suit and take them seriously, which is why I made the comment about them.

As i said, anyone that says he backs such nonsense systems, really needs to be totally ignored on all matters with punting.

[peter m]

Iomaca,
Thanks for the explanation. I too have Barry Blakemores's books, whilst I could understand what he's trying to say I don't know if his findings are totaly valid. Reason being he only factors the winners into his statistics so in any race there could be several other horses with the same ''fitness pattern" that didn't win which aren't taken into account in his final analysis.

I've found that the last three starts total average SP compared to todays price is a good guide, especially if todays price is lower. Not a method in itself and there will be several horses in a race in this category but it seems to be a fairly good indicator.

I see that you think they are all valid factors but some having a bit more weight than others. Good to know not to discount them totally.

thorns,
Interesting point re barrier draws, seems to be a lot of horses win and pay better prices from unfavourable bariers.

So, does anyone think that it's possible to make money on the punt, not necessarilly a full time income but at least extra money without a $20,000 plus bank and turnng over 100's of bets a week?

A poster on here called Kenchar said he was doing o.k place betting a while back but just aiming for a certain amount of units profit a day then stopping.

[lighthuman2010]

So, does anyone think that it's possible to make money on the punt, not necessarilly a full time income but at least extra money without a $20,000 plus bank and turnng over 100's of bets a week?


peter m,

The answer to your above question is quite simple. Does your selection method have a long term winning edge?

yes or no?

There's your answer.

[peter m]

Thanks lighthuman2010, as of now I haven't actually got a selection method , just looking at different things on paper and seing what proves to be valid or not, testing out ideas and theories, many of which I picked up from here.

Like the other posters said maybe there isn't a cut and dried method but you just have to look at a lot of variables and factors and take it from there.

I've mentioned before that I'm not an authority at all, quite a learner in fact but I do have a lot of patience and am not one of these guys who "have to have a bet'', I can quite happily do a years worth research into different things and not feel the need to have a bet.

[lighthuman2010]

Good on you peter m.

I hope you haven't picked up too many ideas from the hard mechanical systems that the likes of Darky post here. Because to be honest, that's the reason they are losing long-term.

There's a couple of realistic options for you to frame your own market.

1) Concentrate on 1 or 2 states only and do your own form/video study

2) Create your own ratings database

or even use a combination of both and bet the value.

But again, stay away from any nonsense mechanical systems which seems to be the common theme on this forum. It will only end up turning you into a bitter old man that gets offended by others success.

[lighthuman2010]

Now being somewhat of a dill myself I will bet Taree R 5 H 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 9 - 11 - 12 BUT I want a minimum of $8 about any of them.
Cheers
darky
I thought this is a good example to have a discussion about.

Darky has selected 7 horses and asked for a minimum of $8 for any selection to be a bet to cover his cost of the 7 selections at level stakes.

But unless he has actually priced each horse at $7, there is no logic why he is looking for the $8 price.

Why isn't he looking to find value for his top few selections at their true price?

[darkydog2002]

The letter "R "system of course was a a bit of fun but dont disregard proven form factors /fitness and value as per my post.
What I wrote in the very good method posted was just basic form factors that actually work in the long term.
Everyone knows or should know the basics of horse handicapping.
Anyone who cant understand the very basics should learn them first and in my opinion very quickly if they want to make a success of betting.

Probably the very best place to learn handicapping is through the research of Malcolm knowles (in my opinion the best racing researcher in Australia)

Or at the very least subscribe to a reliable provider like Warren Block of the Wizard.(If you buy the Wizard online $5.50 the other 6 days of ratings and asessed prices are provided free.)very good value from a top provider.

Cheers
darky

[lighthuman2010]

Darky,

Good to see you talking about serious aspects of betting now.

If you say you are using a solid handicapping method that has proven itself to have an edge long-term, the possible reasons causing you to still lose long-term are:

1) You're not betting just the value selections from the method (eg. you're eroding your value by betting like you did in the example I quoted above)

2) Poor staking/money management

Without knowing exactly how you run your betting, it is hard for me to help. But I would strongly encourage you to do some more research on the above 2 points.

Good to see you're now having a serious go.

[TheNeedle]

Given that my good friend and sailing partner is off test driving a possible new launch (boat to the layman), he has asked me to post todays selections on his behalf.

I have just got off the Skype phone with Mr Barry (just how many deck maidens (wink) do you have on that launch ??) he tells me that he is very confident today and will forward me the possible selections around 11am.

[TheNeedle]

Today's possible investments are

15:47 asc R01 # 4 Greatwall Of China Pot of Platinum
18:35 asc R05 # 8 Stars Aligned Pot of Platinum
19:15 asc R06 # 9 Boto Vermelho Pot of Platinum
20:30 asc R08 # 1 Delta Bay Pot of Platinum
10:53 bal R01 # 5 Threebigrivers Pot of Platinum
11:30 bal R02 # 9 My Academy Pot of Platinum
12:42 bal R04 # 3 Gragarden Pot of Platinum
12:42 bal R04 # 5 Mambo Princess Pot of Platinum
14:12 bal R06 # 1 Jimoda Pot of Platinum
13:07 doo R01 # 1 Yield Curve Pot of Platinum
13:52 doo R02 # 1 Random Orbit Pot of Platinum
13:52 doo R02 # 2 Hour Of Peril Pot of Platinum
14:40 doo R03 # 2 Zed Man Pot of Platinum
14:40 doo R03 # 3 Dazzling Kind Pot of Platinum
15:27 doo R04 # 6 Wild Wilbur Pot of Platinum
16:12 doo R05 #12 Spot On Target Pot of Platinum
17:40 doo R07 # 2 Cat Eyes Pot of Platinum
13:34 dub R01 # 5 Semenya Pot of Platinum
14:20 dub R02 # 5 Old Gold Pot of Platinum
15:09 dub R03 # 1 Dame Maggie Pot of Platinum
15:09 dub R03 # 8 Ima General Pot of Platinum
16:38 dub R05 # 4 Written Habit Pot of Platinum
17:15 dub R06 # 1 Predicate Pot of Platinum
11:10 fle R01 # 3 Condelago Pot of Platinum
11:50 fle R02 # 9 Purple Pot of Platinum
13:20 fle R04 # 4 Soul Pot of Platinum
14:05 fle R05 # 6 So You Think Pot of Platinum
15:40 fle R07 # 1 Hot Danish Pot of Platinum
17:10 fle R09 #10 Demerit Pot of Platinum
13:37 gco R02 # 3 Essence'nrestraint Pot of Platinum
14:24 gco R03 # 1 Da Vista Pot of Platinum
14:24 gco R03 # 3 Flintlock Pot of Platinum
17:26 gco R07 # 1 Northern Praise Pot of Platinum
13:50 guh R01 #11 Shrewd Princess Pot of Platinum
14:35 guh R02 # 8 Canny Sprint Pot of Platinum
15:20 guh R03 # 3 Angle Fighter Pot of Platinum
16:05 guh R04 # 1 Pocket Battleship Pot of Platinum
12:47 mop R01 # 5 Motifs Pot of Platinum
14:18 mop R03 # 4 Elaparado Pot of Platinum
15:08 mop R04 # 7 Bondarchuk Pot of Platinum
15:52 mop R05 # 8 Kuitpo Blaze Pot of Platinum
16:37 mop R06 # 2 Reventon Pot of Platinum
16:37 mop R06 # 8 Our Iridium Pot of Platinum
12:50 mot R01 # 2 Marzy Pot of Platinum
12:50 mot R01 # 3 Johar's Beach Pot of Platinum
13:35 mot R02 # 8 Waterstone Pot of Platinum
14:20 mot R03 # 3 Four Legs Good Pot of Platinum
15:55 mot R05 # 3 Retlaw Lad Pot of Platinum
15:55 mot R05 # 5 Holdem Pot of Platinum
16:40 mot R06 # 5 Wadeema Pot of Platinum
12:28 new R01 # 4 Nickname Pot of Platinum
13:12 new R02 # 3 Concealed Weapon Pot of Platinum
13:57 new R03 # 8 Soi'vebeentold Pot of Platinum
15:32 new R05 # 1 King Sabeel Pot of Platinum
16:18 new R06 # 3 Soul Commander Pot of Platinum
17:03 new R07 # 4 Magic Glenn Pot of Platinum
17:48 new R08 # 6 Oakfield Belle Pot of Platinum
12:17 ros R01 # 7 Saramenha Pot of Platinum
12:57 ros R02 # 1 Kontiki Park Pot of Platinum
13:42 ros R03 # 5 Golden Millennium Pot of Platinum
14:30 ros R04 # 6 Fouette Pot of Platinum
16:46 ros R07 # 1 Joe Blow Pot of Platinum
17:31 ros R08 #10 Dissolved Pot of Platinum
17:44 tbc R01 # 2 Channel Crossing Pot of Platinum
18:24 tbc R02 # 1 Red Ferments Pot of Platinum
19:04 tbc R03 # 6 Sky Effort Pot of Platinum
19:42 tbc R04 # 3 Daydreamer Pot of Platinum
19:42 tbc R04 # 6 Spring Rose Pot of Platinum
20:57 tbc R06 # 2 Heza Guru Pot of Platinum
12:22 trg R01 # 9 Theyallfalldown Pot of Platinum
14:35 trg R04 # 1 Oh So Rosy Pot of Platinum
15:22 trg R05 # 4 Urban Gypsy Pot of Platinum

Now, remember there's a value component to each of these (which I'm not allowed to divulge) and a staking plan.

For all of those who ask, the selections are profitable in the long term at flat stakes (although only mugs bet at flat stakes). With the value component they are very profitable at flat stakes. With the staking plan they are better than gold - they're platinum.

Now, Mr Barry has agreed to send me the selections and the value component each day. I wont get the chance to post them here every day but I will be able to validate his claims.

Good luck to all. I would advise everyone to sit out these selections and not to place your own money on them until such time as you have decided that they are for you. Not everyone can bet in this manner and I would not like you to confirm a certain posters view of punting.

Good luck to all.

_____
pōrori

[TheNeedle]

So, does anyone think that it's possible to make money on the punt, not necessarilly a full time income but at least extra money without a $20,000 plus bank and turnng over 100's of bets a week?

I dont think its possible. I know it is!

_____
pōrori

[TheNeedle]

late scratching has bought this into contention


17:26 gco R07 # 7 With Heart Pot of Platinum

[Bhagwan]

Profit on the punt is acheivable every day if one is prepared to stop at say 1.5% a day.

Thats 11% a week.

That works out at doubling the bank every 6.85 weeks compounded.

Most punters are not satisfied with that , they would rather risk large sums of money to achieve the elusive pot of gold.
Then say something like , I cant make money out of the punt , therefore it cant be done.

The safest methods are...
Place betting 8-12 runners
Betting 2+ horses a race 1-12 runners.

Make sure you stop for the day once 30% of bank is lost.
First bet should be kept small in relation to bank.

Try this method.
Place betting.
Target Fav on Betfair.
8-9 runners only.
Price 1.30+
Run your favorite filters over this selection.

100 unit bank.
Bet 1 unit then 2 units after a success then reduce by .50 unit after a loss .
Example
1 w
2 L
1.5 L
1 w
2 w
2 ect.

Stop once 1.5 units is made.
Bank should compound out to double in 6.85 weeks using the Fibonacci compounding rule of 72
e.g. 72 divided by 1.5 = 48 days divided by 7 = 6.85 weeks

This stopping bit is the hardest thing for a punter to do, it takes great discepline , because they see all the other successes that follow on & think thats the gravey train they should be on , then one day , that train ends up being a trip to ********, which results in the punter saying , "what happened to all my lovely money- not fair!"
Then they ask questions like , is it possible to make any money out of the punt.

The answer is it can be done by the right person with discepline.

Many punters believe you should load up your bets on a really good run & reduce your bets on a bad run.
If you take this approach , one will always be confronted with hot & cold days , praying to dead people & making human sacrifices to the punting gods for the next really good day, meanwhile they spiral slowly downwards into the obiss they have created for themselves.

They usually tell us they made $10,000 dollars once, in a single day.
This is more than likekly very true.

This tells us they must punt like that all the time, therefore they will have experience situations where they have also lost $3,000 on a given day x by 5 days = -$15,000 lost
But they will assure us they will get it all back on the next really good day.
Which they may very well do , that is , if they dont run out of money waiting for the really good day to arrive.

It's starting to sound a bit like the surfers waiting out there for that next perfect wave, it may take 1 hour , it may take 1 year.

If one where to tell a bank manager that this is the same way one runs their personal business , it would make his hair curl. Rightly or wrongly..

For the majority who wish for sustained profits betting every day , its usually best to target profits of 1.5-3.5% a day.

You may be able to knock Mike Tyson out in 3 rounds , but you would not like to go 10 rounds with him,. so why do it to yourself on the punt.

There's only four rules you have to remember on the punt, which most punters usually forget three of them.
That is....
Get your targeted profit & stop, stop, stop.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. If you feel a post is not worth reading after the first line that's your business. Don't post about it in the forums. Add the poster to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. Click User CP link at top left then scroll down to Buddy/Ignore Lists link. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the TOU violation function. Thanks.

[TheNeedle]

Post deleted. Posting large bold type is shouting. No shouting here. Thanks.

[lomaca]

Profit on the punt is acheivable every day if one is prepared to stop at say 1.5% a day.

Make sure you stop for the day once 30% of bank is lost.
While I admire your determination for staking plans, I can't follow your reasoning here.

How can you recoup your losses when you allow a 30% reduction of your bank but stop when only up 1.5%?

[Chrome Prince]

So, does anyone think that it's possible to make money on the punt, not necessarilly a full time income but at least extra money without a $20,000 plus bank and turnng over 100's of bets a week?

A poster on here called Kenchar said he was doing o.k place betting a while back but just aiming for a certain amount of units profit a day then stopping.

It depends on your prices and turnover.
In this day and age with the competitive odds on offer from various sources it is quite possible to make a fulltime income with a bank of less than $10,000, if you're able to turn that bank over many times per week.
If you can turn over a $5,000 bank ten times then you are turning a $5,000 bank into a $50,000 bank with the same risk.

For example, I bet an average of three horses per race, cover 20 Australian races, 20 English races and 20 Irish races on average per day.
That's 180 bets per day.
So I turn over my bank many many times per week.
The odds of those horses determine whether I win or lose, the number of times I turn over that bank determines how much.

Stopping after a winner makes no mathematical sense, you have an edge or don't. However, some punters end up having silly bets or chasing losses, so for those with discipline problems, stopping after a winner might be the only way they can make a profit.

It could also be that their edge is in the early maiden type races. ;)

[wesmip1]

It depends on your prices and turnover.
In this day and age with the competitive odds on offer from various sources it is quite possible to make a fulltime income with a bank of less than $10,000, if you're able to turn that bank over many times per week.
If you can turn over a $5,000 bank ten times then you are turning a $5,000 bank into a $50,000 bank with the same risk.

For example, I bet an average of three horses per race, cover 20 Australian races, 20 English races and 20 Irish races on average per day.
That's 180 bets per day.
So I turn over my bank many many times per week.
The odds of those horses determine whether I win or lose, the number of times I turn over that bank determines how much.

Stopping after a winner makes no mathematical sense, you have an edge or don't. However, some punters end up having silly bets or chasing losses, so for those with discipline problems, stopping after a winner might be the only way they can make a profit.

It could also be that their edge is in the early maiden type races. ;)
Best post so far in the long thread.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. If you feel a post is not worth reading after the first line that's your business. Don't post about it in the forums. Add the poster to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. Click User CP link at top left then scroll down to Buddy/Ignore Lists link. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the TOU violation function. Thanks.

[TheNeedle]

Well it was a tough day on the punt today but working hard to obtain the best prices and only betting the value ensured a profit was had. Onward to tomorrow.

[partypooper]

ok, lets put it another way, IF your strategy shows a profit at level stakes then yes you can increase profits (but probably not the POT) with just about any staking plan. IF your strategy does not show a profit at level stakes ......no staking plan will turn it around , long term that is.

[Chrome Prince]

You would need a huge amount of luck to make a full time income from a bank of under $10k without going bankrupt first. Unless you consider a full time income to be around $100 per week?

You just need an advantage and to turn over your bank x number of times to derive a good income. Luck is not a factor.

Assume that a bank of 10k and your edge is a mere 2%. (mine is a lot higher than 2%).
Turning over your bank once, your profit is $200.
Hardly a wage, however, suppose you could turn over your bank 10 times in a week, suddenly your wage is 2k from a mere 10k bank, even though the edge remains 2%.

2% is amazingly conservative.

The above also assumes 2% of bank level stakes, not staking plans or higher percentage of bank bet which increases risk.

[partypooper]

2% GUARANTEED large volume would suit me Chrome! (the Casinos edge; that'll do)

[lighthuman2010]

You just need an advantage and to turn over your bank x number of times to derive a good income. Luck is not a factor.

Assume that a bank of 10k and your edge is a mere 2%. (mine is a lot higher than 2%).
Turning over your bank once, your profit is $200.
Hardly a wage, however, suppose you could turn over your bank 10 times in a week, suddenly your wage is 2k from a mere 10k bank, even though the edge remains 2%.

2% is amazingly conservative.

The above also assumes 2% of bank level stakes, not staking plans or higher percentage of bank bet which increases risk.
Chrome Prince,

Betting 2% of your bank is allowing for a maximum drawdown of only 50 units.

If you are going to turnover that $10k bank 10 times in a week as you say, that is 500 bets.

Now, 500 bets in a week is a high turnover method in anyones language. If you think 50 units drawdown is conservative on a high turnover method like that, you are dreaming.

So again, I would strongly encourage newcomers to ignore your post as you would need a huge amount of luck to not go bankrupt.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. If you think a user is an idiot or their post is not worth reading that's your business. Don't post about it in the forums. Public ridicule is not permitted. Add the poster to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. Click User CP link at top left then scroll down to Buddy/Ignore Lists link. No more warnings about this. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the TOU violation function. Thanks.

[lomaca]

Chrome Prince,

Betting 2% of your bank is allowing for a maximum drawdown of only 50 units.
I'm risking an accusation of flaming here but mate, you either can't read, don't bother reading posts or just plain lack comprehension!

CP was talking about making 2%, (minimum, he says he is making much more) not betting 2 % of the bank.

[lighthuman2010]

I'm risking an accusation of flaming here but mate, you either can't read, don't bother reading posts or just plain lack comprehension!

CP was talking about making 2%, (minimum, he says he is making much more) not betting 2 % of the bank..

The above also assumes 2% of bank level stakes, not staking plans or higher percentage of bank bet which increases risk.I'll accept an apology at any stage lomaca

[lomaca]

I'll accept an apology at any stage lomacayou'll have a long wait matey!

Being a betting man I'd say never!

[lighthuman2010]

Have you worked out where you are wrong yet?

It's there for all to see.

[lighthuman2010]

you'll have a long wait matey!

Being a betting man I'd say never!Very poor form lomaca.

We all make mistakes, but most of us are man enough to apologise after throwing out insults for no reason.

Perhaps next time you will slow down and check everything before flying off. It will save you a lot of embarrassment.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. If you think a user is an idiot or their post is not worth reading that's your business. Don't post about it in the forums. Public ridicule is not permitted. Add the poster to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. Click User CP link at top left then scroll down to Buddy/Ignore Lists link. No more warnings about this. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the TOU violation function. Thanks.
Moderator,

I am new to this forum so please bear with me. If the first line was against the rules, why can not just that line be deleted and the rest of the post allowed to stay?

Thank you for your help.

[lighthuman2010]

Profit on the punt is acheivable every day if one is prepared to stop at say 1.5% a day.


Bhagwan,

It seems my first post in response to this quote was deleted because it was deemed offensive. So therefore I apologise to you for any hurt caused.

However, I must disagree strongly with your post.

If the only way you can make a profit is by stopping at a target during the day, it means your method has no long-term edge and you will eventually lose long-term.

If you do have a long-term edge and you are stopping for safety reasons, it means you are missing out on vital profit which will eventually see you lose long-term.

[Shaun]

I don't think Kenchar comes here anymore but he would not agree with that idea and is a long term winner, just because one idea does not work for you then don't dismiss that idea altogether.

There are many ways to win at this game and new bet types all the time, things that were done and said in the past may not hold as true as you think in todays times.

[lighthuman2010]

I don't think Kenchar comes here anymore but he would not agree with that idea and is a long term winner,
I hope it is not the case for his sake, but perhaps he no longer comes here because the maths have caught up with him and he is no longer a winner.

The fact is, if the only way you can profit is by stopping at a certain target, it means your method has no edge.

On the other hand, he may have a very profitable edge and is severely cutting his profits by stopping, which will threaten his long-term edge.

Either way, it is not a good position to be in and certainly not a method to be used.

[Chrome Prince]

Chrome Prince,

Betting 2% of your bank is allowing for a maximum drawdown of only 50 units.

If you are going to turnover that $10k bank 10 times in a week as you say, that is 500 bets.

Now, 500 bets in a week is a high turnover method in anyones language. If you think 50 units drawdown is conservative on a high turnover method like that, you are dreaming.

So again, I would strongly encourage newcomers to ignore your post as you would need a huge amount of luck to not go bankrupt.

Feel free to disagree, as you are assuming quite a bit about what I do.

I could be having 500 place bets on short horses, I could be betting longshots only, I could be backing half the field.
In all but one of those scenarios, I wouldn't come close to 50 units drawdown at any stage.

[Chrome Prince]

The fact is, if the only way you can profit is by stopping at a certain target, it means your method has no edge.

On the other hand, he may have a very profitable edge and is severely cutting his profits by stopping, which will threaten his long-term edge.

Either way, it is not a good position to be in and certainly not a method to be used.

As previously stated, these things are not black and white.
His edge revolves around fluctuations on maiden horses, therefore it makes no sense to bet on the later races.
I know quite a few punters who lack discipline and the only way they can win is to stop at a winner, or they give it all back.
Maths doesn't incorporate the above factors into the equation.

[wesmip1]

Guys you can all argue amongst yourselves all you want but there is 1 thing you can't argue with and that is the sze of the funds in your betting accounts. If they are going up then continue what your doing.. if they are going down then eventually you will go broke. If they going up then who cares what others say.. if they are going down then maybe you should listen to them.

[Moderator 3]

Moderator,

I am new to this forum so please bear with me. If the first line was against the rules, why can not just that line be deleted and the rest of the post allowed to stay?

Thank you for your help.
When a post is publicly moderated it is deleted in full with a moderation note. This is common practice on many forums. No more discussion about this. Thanks.

[ixlat0]

Post deleted.

If you feel another user is an idiot or doesn't know what they are talking about, that's your business. Don't post about it in the forums. You are welcome to disagree and post your opinion, but public ridicule is not acceptable. Add them to your ignore list if you feel strongly about it. Click User CP link at top left then scroll down to Buddy/Ignore Lists link. If you feel the user has violated the Terms of Use, report it via the red triangle TOU violation function. Thanks.

[lighthuman2010]

Post deleted. Please do not make allegations here about what is posted on other forums. Thanks.

[lighthuman2010]

-- the trick is to convert an edge into a profit -- now profit is altogether another beast that needs to be tamed and can only be brought under control through correct staking -- the most critical componet of which is managing drawdown

ixlato,

One of the reasons you could be losing long-term is because you are over complicating things.

If you have an edge, it means your selection method will return a profit betting level stakes.

All this talk about "taming, beast, control" etc makes no sense and is probably confusing you somewhat. Make it more simple for yourself, if you make a profit while betting level stakes, it means you have an edge. Then you can start changing staking plans to maximise profits.

You are correct about drawdowns, but that is basic bank management which you should really have under control before you even consider punting.

[lighthuman2010]

As previously stated, these things are not black and white.
His edge revolves around fluctuations on maiden horses, therefore it makes no sense to bet on the later races.

Chrome prince,

What you are now saying is something completely different.

If he no longer has any selections after the maiden races are finished, then he has no selections. That is not stopping. That means there is no more selections.

However, if he still has selections after the maiden races are finished and stops, then he is stopping. And if he is stopping, of course maths will be involved. It means he is not maximising his profits.

[lighthuman2010]

Guys you can all argue amongst yourselves all you want but there is 1 thing you can't argue with and that is the sze of the funds in your betting accounts. If they are going up then continue what your doing.. if they are going down then eventually you will go broke. If they going up then who cares what others say.. if they are going down then maybe you should listen to them.
wesmip1,

While I understand your post had the best of intentions, I still think I need to clarify something for you.

Just because your bank blanace is increasing, it does not mean your method has a long-term edge.

Even a method that loses long-term will have strong winning periods.

[TheNeedle]

Todays Pot of Platinum contenders.


14:00 par R02 # 2 Fox Solid Pot of Platinum
14:35 par R03 # 6 Lester Cove Pot of Platinum
15:10 par R04 # 6 Corley Moor Pot of Platinum
15:45 par R05 # 3 American Tale Pot of Platinum
16:57 par R07 # 7 Chatterchic Pot of Platinum
17:35 par R08 # 2 Coco Kerringle Pot of Platinum
15:40 pij R01 # 1 Super Hawk Pot of Platinum
16:17 pij R02 # 1 Ranger Pot of Platinum
16:52 pij R03 # 1 Aylesford Pot of Platinum
18:07 pij R05 # 6 Hard Candy Pot of Platinum
18:45 pij R06 # 2 Easy Rider Pot of Platinum
18:45 pij R06 # 6 Lipton Pot of Platinum
19:25 pij R07 # 5 Golden Heart Pot of Platinum
19:25 pij R07 #11 Werd Pot of Platinum
20:05 pij R08 # 4 Amelias Dancer Pot of Platinum
13:45 pol R01 # 1 Hightom Pot of Platinum
13:45 pol R01 # 6 Comic Cat Pot of Platinum
14:20 pol R02 # 1 Firer Me Pot of Platinum
14:55 pol R03 # 5 Busterwabbit Pot of Platinum
14:55 pol R03 # 6 Extreme Ways Pot of Platinum
16:09 pol R05 # 6 Jail Strait Pot of Platinum
16:44 pol R06 # 1 Gallipoli Beach Pot of Platinum
17:20 pol R07 # 5 Heart Of Stone Pot of Platinum
13:30 sun R01 # 2 Moon Lady Pot of Platinum
14:40 sun R03 # 3 Craiglea Falcon Pot of Platinum
15:15 sun R04 # 1 Metaphysical Pot of Platinum
15:50 sun R05 # 5 Intadom Pot of Platinum
15:50 sun R05 # 6 Pointe Dancer Pot of Platinum
17:44 sun R08 # 2 Guns Pot of Platinum

[TheNeedle]

I know quite a few punters who lack discipline and the only way they can win is to stop at a winner, or they give it all back.
Maths doesn't incorporate the above factors into the equation.

I think that any punter who lacks discipline and relies upon stopping at a certain point in their day should give the game away until they can master the discipline side of things. Punters who lack discipline will give it all back in the end. Nothing is surer.

[TheNeedle]

As for stopping at a given point in the day I think this is madness. I have an edge and I want to maximize that edge. An edge in punting is hard enough to find without taking only a part time advantage of that edge.

If the strategy does NOT have a long term edge, then it doesn't matter how you slice up the punting continuum, 12 to 2, 1 to 3, 2 to 4 or so on, the negative expectation will catch up with you long term and YOU WILL LOSE. Unless of course you add one of Darky's sure-fire strategies such as cutting out all horses with an R in their name. That might make it work!

[wesmip1]

You keep talking about edge but these selections constantly show a loss on level stakes, thus no edge.

How can there be an edge if level stakes show a loss ?

[TheNeedle]

Post deleted. Large bold type is shouting. Not here please.

[TheNeedle]

Now, remember there's a value component to each of these (which I'm not allowed to divulge) .

[wesmip1]

this is a lost cause .... how about a bet off ... Me vs you. To include value we can set the price at a minimum of $3 as an accepted bet, Level stakes only with $10 on each selection. Prices accepted are unitab only.

Comp will run a minimum of 50 bets above $3.

If you are so sure of yourself I am happy to provide some friendly competition as there are a few new systems I would like to test live.

[TheNeedle]

To include value we can set the price at a minimum of $3 as an accepted bet

This is the silliest thing I've read on a punting forum for a long time. Value, TRUE VALUE, has no concept of an across the board minimum price. Some horses in some races are value at 1.6, others are value at 16.0, others are value at 160.0

[wesmip1]

This is the silliest thing I've read on a punting forum for a long time. Value, TRUE VALUE, has no concept of an across the board minimum price. Some horses in some races are value at 1.6, others are value at 16.0, others are value at 160.0
But since your not going to devulge how you measure value for each horse how else can be one ... think before you post ....

[wesmip1]

Its ok .. your obviously scared of the competition cause you know your selections are not well thought out and can't make a level stakes profit....

No need to cry about it and start attacking people ....

[TheNeedle]

Post deleted. Shouting.

[lighthuman2010]

To include value we can set the price at a minimum of $3 as an accepted bet
wesmip1,

TheNeedle is correct, your understanding of the term "value" is somewhat misguided.

As betting "value" is the most important part of long-term success, I would strongly encourage you to gain a better understanding of "value".

Just remember people are here to help, so fire away with any questions if you have them.

[wesmip1]

wesmip1,

TheNeedle is correct, your understanding of the term "value" is somewhat misguided.

As betting "value" is the most important part of long-term success, I would strongly encourage you to gain a better understanding of "value".

Just remember people are here to help, so fire away with any questions if you have them.
I understand value ... but how else can we run a comp against his "value" if he won't tell us what he has rated the selections... I proposed a simple method of removing the shortest of selections.

I have no doubt I could easily score a higher profit then the selections posted here as I would make a profit (vs the loss of the selections shown here).

I am happy for a value to be put on each selection .... I was just trying to help so the so called "secret stuff" wasn't being posted ....

You gain no credibility until the selections are posted here with minimum prices before the race. The comp would have enforced that thus giving needle/mr barry credibility.

[wesmip1]

Post deleted. Quoting a post which included shouting.

[lighthuman2010]

Here is a lesson for some of you. This horse was rated at $2.00 in todays race and it was available at $19.00 fixed odds for the win. It was also showing an expected place dividend of $5.00 for the place.

TheNeedle,

Please thank Mr Barry for me for supplying his raw selections to the forum today.

I too saw Jail Stait at the $19 and thought what an incredible value selection, knowing Mr Barry had it rated on top.

I had an e/w bet on it and was amazed at the $10 price for the place.

I'm sure many members are grateful to have a successful punters ratings, like Mr Barry's, posted on the forum.

Even if novice punters can pick up just 1 or 2 little tricks from the successful punters, it can only have a positive impact on their bottom line.

[TheNeedle]

Useless post. Noone else knew it was rated at $19. Doesn't count ...still no credibility.

Actually, it was rated at $2.00. The $19.00 was available fixed odds from the bookie.
:rolleyes:

[wesmip1]

Those who post on any internet forum fall into one of a few groups:

1. Those searching for an edge who are trying systems and they provide rules and selections before races. Michaelg falls into this group and I respect him for what he puts out there. I run tests on his selections methods and try to help him out where ever possible. He is a genuine good guy on the forum.

2. Others want to build up their ego who are not secure in their selections and who are not yet financially setup by backing their selections. These people come and go on the forum and usually stir up a lot of trouble. They are usually very defensive on their selections and come up with excuses on why the selection did not count such as the elusive "it was not value" when it loses. They may or may not have weird and wonderful staking.

3. People who love racing and love to talk racing and selections. They are very open about losing and are open to suggestions on ways to pick winners. They are in it for the fun and would prefer to back So you think at $1.10 to win the Melb cup because its about saying you were on the horse you love.

4. People who pop in time to time who do a lot of punting and are making a good amount out of racing. They like to come and help out others where possible but generally don't hang around too long as they are too busy punting or researching a new idea.

All us fit into it somewhere ... only over time can you decide where someone fits. Sometimes pinpointing the type of person is a lot quicker.

[peterpan]

The $19.00 was available fixed odds from the bookie.
:rolleyes:I don't want to get involved in the actual conversations in this thread but I would be really be appreciative if you could post which bookie had it at $19 as that is massive overs to any other bookie and I would like to sign up for an account.

Thanks in advance.

[lighthuman2010]

peterpan

You are just going by the track flucs.

Look at the corporates.

[TheNeedle]

Peterpan Im not sure if Im allowed to mention bookies on this forum. The home tote's fixed odds arm was offering $19.

[wesmip1]

It was unitab fixed odds. You could ge better elsewhere (including the sponsors of this site).

[lighthuman2010]

It was unitab fixed odds. You could ge better elsewhere (including the sponsors of this site).
Wesmip1,

As you are not yet at the level I am talking about, you would probably not be aware of this. However, there are certain bookmakers that do not accept the business of long-term winning punters or do not accept decent sized bets from these punters.

So the place you are talking about would probably have accepted your bet on the horse in question, but not from other punters.

But having said all that, $19 was the best fixed price anywhere.

[lighthuman2010]

Those who post on any internet forum fall into one of a few groups:

1. Those searching for an edge who are trying systems and they provide rules and selections before races. Michaelg falls into this group and I respect him for what he puts out there. I run tests on his selections methods and try to help him out where ever possible. He is a genuine good guy on the forum.

2. Others want to build up their ego who are not secure in their selections and who are not yet financially setup by backing their selections. These people come and go on the forum and usually stir up a lot of trouble. They are usually very defensive on their selections and come up with excuses on why the selection did not count such as the elusive "it was not value" when it loses. They may or may not have weird and wonderful staking.

3. People who love racing and love to talk racing and selections. They are very open about losing and are open to suggestions on ways to pick winners. They are in it for the fun and would prefer to back So you think at $1.10 to win the Melb cup because its about saying you were on the horse you love.

4. People who pop in time to time who do a lot of punting and are making a good amount out of racing. They like to come and help out others where possible but generally don't hang around too long as they are too busy punting or researching a new idea.

All us fit into it somewhere ... only over time can you decide where someone fits. Sometimes pinpointing the type of person is a lot quicker.
wesmip1,

It's very hard to try and categorise people on a forum. But more to the point, why would anyone even try to?

There is really only 2 categories you should care about as a punter.

1) Long-term winning punter

or

2) Long-term losing punter (this includes break even punters)

If you put as much effort into learning about the true meaning of "value" as you did those silly categories above, your punting would be much the better for it.

[Mr barry]

Thank you
TheNeedle you have done a brilliant job for me whilst I was cruising the Tasman, mate you should have seen the lovelies I had ;) on the Launch with me, anyway thanks again matey for massively building my empire whilst away. I owe you mate, next crusie on me.

[wesmip1]

Post deleted. You posted that you deliberately set out to "stir a bit of trouble" on this Forum. In addition, you shouted and flamed. Suspended for two days. Please take note of the posting guidelines. Thanks.