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sliepnir
9th November 2011, 01:16 PM
I have been looking at the Racing and Sports form for the first time today and noticed that their API for this week's meetings, instead of being CarPM/Starts*1000, is simply 12mPM/1000. Does anyone know if this is just a glitch in the system, or is it always like that?

UselessBettor
9th November 2011, 04:19 PM
Its always been 12 month prize money as far back as I can remember. I actually find that a better measure then the whole career unless the horse hasn't raced in a while.

sliepnir
9th November 2011, 04:26 PM
Its always been 12 month prize money as far back as I can remember. I actually find that a better measure then the whole career unless the horse hasn't raced in a while.

I understand what you're saying about the 12 month figure being a better measure. But their API isn't even an Index of 12 month prize money. It's just that figure divided by 1000, instead of by career starts. Both Total Career PM and 12 Month PM are already listed anyway.

sliepnir
9th November 2011, 04:42 PM
UB,

When you say it's always been 12 month PM are you definitely talking about API? I mean it doesn't even align with Racing and Sport's own definition (from their "explanation" legend):

"API - $1000 of dollars won per start"

What shows is obviously not what was intended. But did a gremlin crawl in, or did they stuff it up from the start and never bother to fix it?

lomaca
9th November 2011, 06:17 PM
UB,

When you say it's always been 12 month PM are you definitely talking about API? I mean it doesn't even align with Racing and Sport's own definition (from their "explanation" legend):

"API - $1000 of dollars won per start"

What shows is obviously not what was intended. But did a gremlin crawl in, or did they stuff it up from the start and never bother to fix it?I checked my database and the API I have seems to agree with the API they have, (I get my form from cyber zip)

Also made some spotchecks re. money earned/races and seems to be OK, unless of course we are looking at something different?

sliepnir
9th November 2011, 06:36 PM
I checked my database and the API I have seems to agree with the API they have, (I get my form from cyber zip)

Also made some spotchecks re. money earned/races and seems to be OK, unless of course we are looking at something different?

Thanks for doing the crosscheck.

Mea Culpa over one aspect. I just realised that NONE of their prizemoney figures are totals, they're all per start indexes. Should have been obvious, they aren't high enough.

However, would like to confirm whether their "API" figure has always been simply 12mPM/1000. I gather now that this is what UB was saying.

Iomeca, do you know if cyber zip is career or 12 months?

lomaca
9th November 2011, 07:10 PM
Iomeca, do you know if cyber zip is career or 12 months?It seems to be career starts not last 12 month.

sliepnir
9th November 2011, 07:34 PM
It seems to be career starts not last 12 month.

Hmm... well that muddies the waters. Here's an example from R&S today:

"CarPM" "12mPM" "API"

Warwick Farm Race 2
1) $5,841 $2,283 2.3
2) $3,313 $4,577 4.6
3) $2,220 $2,219 2.2
4) $3,766 $4,379 4.4
5) $1,886 $3,486 3.5
6) $1,897 $1,158 1.2
7) $1,350 $0,562 0.6

lomaca
9th November 2011, 07:59 PM
Hmm... well that muddies the waters. Here's an example from R&S today:

"CarPM" "12mPM" "API"

Warwick Farm Race 2
1) $5,841 $2,283 2.3
2) $3,313 $4,577 4.6
3) $2,220 $2,219 2.2
4) $3,766 $4,379 4.4
5) $1,886 $3,486 3.5
6) $1,897 $1,158 1.2
7) $1,350 $0,562 0.6I don't know, but if we are looking at the same thing then something is very odd indeed.

here is race 2 at WF

1 Shadow Minister 6.0
2 Pregrada (1) 3.9
3 Praise Be (4) 2.7
4 Sables (3) 5.0
5 Klaatu (6) 1.9
6 Spence (5) 1.9
7 Gee Eff Cee (2) 1.8


PS
Checked again, Yes you have only the last 12 month, mine shows career starts

sliepnir
9th November 2011, 08:33 PM
PS
Checked again, Yes you have only the last 12 month, mine shows career starts

Strange though that No.'s 2, 3, 4, 7 are a fair bit different even on R&S's CarPM figure.

lomaca
9th November 2011, 08:52 PM
Strange though that No.'s 2, 3, 4, 7 are a fair bit different even on R&S's CarPM figure.Can't work out how they do it, I have the number of races and added up the horse's winning and it agrees with the API I get automatically.

As far as I'm concerned this is not exactly a winning factor, so I don't use it, but still, it's intriguing what they do and why?

Although if I were to use it, I'd be inclined to use the last couple of years'
of earning at most, 12 months maybe a bit short, life time earnings may be utterly meaningless.
Just my opinion.

sliepnir
9th November 2011, 09:05 PM
Can't work out how they do it, I have the number of races and added up the horse's winning and it agrees with the API I get automatically.

As far as I'm concerned this is not exactly a winning factor, so I don't use it, but still, it's intriguing what they do and why?

Although if I were to use it, I'd be inclined to use the last couple of years'
of earning at most, 12 months maybe a bit short, life time earnings may be utterly meaningless.
Just my opinion.


TBH, my main concern is the consistency of the data. Have been looking at something on Uselessbettor's tester, which uses R&S data but only goes back to August. It would seem misleading, therefore, to look back at earlier data from other sources with regards to "API".

Hopefully, however R&S do calculate their API's, they have always been consistent; though I've even got some qualms about that now, given the peculiarities of the figures.

When I've done research in the past, I generally found that career API was an overbet factor. But that can be just as useful to know as the reverse! Twelve month figures I do believe have a slightly higher impact on strike rates, but I don't have any hard evidence to hand on that.