POT

[petstep]

Have just received an email from a well known ratings/tips seller. they say their followers have made quote "52% profit on turnover. That is the same as making a $1.52 for every $1.00 outlayed". I feel that return represents 34%?

[Shaun]

Explain why this is so.

[petstep]

The formula is: return -outlay/return *100-----1.52-1.00/1.00*100=34%

[petstep]

Sorry . Correction to last post. 1.52 - 1.00/1.52 * 100=34%

[Shaun]

I guess my maths just not that good, can't work that one out.

[Shaun]

Ok that works out but i still don't think it is the correct calculation for what you are trying to do.

Why are you dividing your profit in to the total return?

[petstep]

Shaun
I'll try to explain another way.
1. You have $1.00 in your bank.
2. You have a $1.00 bet. Win Return $1.52
3. You now have $1.52 in the bank.
4. You have made .52c. .52c is 34% of $1.52. ie 34% pot.

[domenic]

Shaun
I'll try to explain another way.
1. You have $1.00 in your bank.
2. You have a $1.00 bet. Win Return $1.52
3. You now have $1.52 in the bank.
4. You have made .52c. .52c is 34% of $1.52. ie 34% pot.
You have only turned over $1.00, and made .52c profit, the POT is 52%.

[Mark]

T standing for Turnover.
Your T in this case is $1.
Your profit is .52.
Your POT is therefore 52%.

If they're offering 52% POT, run, run a mile, and run very fast.

Sorry Domenic, just beat me to it.

[Barny]

It's a bit like saying that you need to take away 20% of 100 and you get 80 but you need to increase 80 by 25% to get to 100 .....

[petstep]

Yes fellas you are right. I am quoting the formula for win profit % not TURNOVER %. Regards (By the way the email i'm quoting is from from a VERY well known source.)

[Barny]

Geez, petstep, don't give too much away!

There is a system that's showing 52% POT and I'm marketing it for let's say $5k plus 10% commission on your winning bets and it's absolutley guaranteed to turn $5k into $400,000 in two months.

See Darky for the system and his buddy bhagwan for the staking method.

Any complaints, also refer them to the abovementioned gentlemen. I'm just the middleman you see!


ps; Oi darky, is $5k too cheap for the "R" system or just about right?

[Shaun]

The email and system did not concern me i was only interested in the maths behind that profit.

There is only 2 ways that i know of to calculate profit
POT (Profit/Total Outlay) x 100
ROI (Profit/Start Stake) x 100

Same calculation but i prefer the POT because showing how much you had to turn over to make the profit can easily be used to show the stability of the investments.

[Mark]

Petstep, ask yourself this, if you were making 52% POT, would you be selling it to others???

[pjr]

Champion Picks tips members are making 52% profit on turnover in 2012.

That's only 1 month.

[petstep]

Mark , I wasn't in the slightest bit interested in the tips, only the mathmatics behind the sentence. Pjr has now told you where I read it. Champion Picks weekly newsletter.

[darkydog2002]

POT on 96 bets with the Bhagwans NEW method is Outlay $7200 /Nett Profit $2902 so $2902 divided by $7200 = 40.3 % POT.

Barny ,
As for Baghwan and I pricing each individual system I remind you That these were given out FREE so no pricing needs to be concerned about.
We do this to contribute something worthwhile to others to consider.
Whether they use them is entirely up to each individual.
Cheers
darky

[gunny72]

34% is profit on return (POR), a bit like profit on selling price. Maybe POR has some relevance when betting to win a certain amount. In this example it means that your profit is 34% of what you get back. If you get $100 back your profit would be $34 and your outlay $66 and POT is 52% (34/66*100).

[Bhagwan]

I find the easiest way to look at such figures like 52% POT

Is to say in every 100 races bet at $1.00 on each selection.
Using $100 bank.

New Bank now stands at $152

AKA - ROI 152% (Ret On Investment)
This is always calculated on a theoretical 100 bets as in 100 percentile points.

52% Profit On Turnover (POT)
52 is the Profit between 100.00 and New Bank 152.00

If you wish to find out what the average price is.
Divide number of winners per 100 races (as in win %) into the 152.00 Return in every 100 bets.

Example
40%SR for a 52% POT

40 winners / Divided into total return of $152.00 = Av Price $3.80

To check
40 x 3.80 = Ret $152 - O/L 100.00 = Prof 52.00
52% POT

[Bhagwan]

Just a little tip Petstep.
Try & find out what Bookie they used.

The reason I say that is a friend of mine had a go at that service & found their
SR was the same but POT was not nearly as handsome as those published in there monthly mail out.

[partypooper]

Gawd, Bhagwan, are you REALLY serious? POT means PROFIT ON "TURNOVER" i.e the TOTAL amount staked , (regardless of what your fictitious bank is.

eg. You started with $100, and made @2000 $1 bets , now your bank stands at $150,.......... GREAT you made a profit ...........but that profit is $50 on a turnover of $2000, = 2.5%, NOT 50% of your original (fictitious) starting bank.

Bhags, you are not THAT dumb,.... just get real!!!! please?

[Barny]

Holy Cow ! I know they're just descriptive words, BUT, a lot of what we do is based on the fact that we all are able to communicate effectively, and I would have thought PROFIT in any sense of the word was an easy figure to work out ..... It's the relationship between the amount in EXCESS of the amount of money you've spent over a period of time.

In terms of explaining that as a ratio, so that we can make comparisons, we have the term POT. Invested $1,000 over six months, after six months you now have $1,100 = 10% POT.

We also have ROI or Retun on Investment (not as widely used or as valuable a ratio here I wouldn't have thought) = Invested $1,000 for a return of say $925 so ROI = 92.5% or a LOT of 7.5%

[Shaun]

The ROI is common outside of Australia, seams we may be the main users of this term for gambling.

[Bhagwan]

Of course it does Party.

Everyone knows what POT is.

The man wanted clarity .

We were trying to keep it simple..

I am unsure as to the point you are pressing.

I'm getting a real feeling you are allowing yourself to become agitated & aggressive over the term Profit On Turnover - Please!

Is there a reason as to why are you attacking people of late ?

[partypooper]

Funny you should say that Bhags, my missus is always telling me I'm turning into a grumpy old Man!

Whilst I'm totally non aggressive and non-violent in the physical sense, I do tend to emphasise my frustration verbally.

In my case, MY POT cost me a lot of money, and just about makes me a contender for "biggest loser" hee hee!

[Barny]

If I may wade in here ..... it's not the best method of communication here as you cannot see someone's body language. We all take responsibility for 'how' we post, but geez it's difficult when you're picked for YELLING or whatever, when it's more of an aaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh, with no malice or angst intended.

[Chrome Prince]

Yes, you really don't know whether someone is being aggressive, tongue in cheek, sarcastic or just frustrated.
I've often had some posts taken the wrong way.

:(

[Puntz]

52% is POT

The other one is N POT
Net Profit on Turnover, means after expenses are subtracted.

So when they say 52% POT they have not subtracted expenses.

yeah?

[Barny]

So that's Gross Profit On Turnover or GPOT, throw an S somewhere in that acronym and you'll have the attention of a lot of us here.

................ Woopeeeeeeeeee

[Chrome Prince]

You'll have more trouble finding it, than the next winner at Bulli greyhounds :D

[Mancunian]

L O
R U O K
S, I M O K
C U

[darkydog2002]

Is that Mancherian?

[Barny]

Mancunian, take a little more water with it ..............

[partypooper]

EH?

[rails run]

A lot here have used UB's system tester to run some ideas and the slightest of tweaks to settings can produce different POT's and qualifying races.

One system might produce a POT of 24% but find 400 races that qualify.
The next system might produce a POT of 8% but find 1200 races that qualify.

So what is better? Do I sit on my bank and go with the 24% system or do I go for turnover and get the bank into the action for the 8%?

I think Chrome once said turnover is very important because you roll your POT over many more times even with a smaller bank.

Would it make a difference if my staking plan was, say, a percentage of bank?

[TheSchmile]

One system might produce a POT of 24% but find 400 races that qualify.
The next system might produce a POT of 8% but find 1200 races that qualify.


Hi rails run,

It's an interesting question you pose.

If the two systems above are related, it may be that the 400 out of 1200 qualifiers are where all the goodness is and the other 800 actually lose or break even?

Personally, I'd go the 400 at 24% POT, however that's without knowing your selection system and strike rate. My go would be to triple your stake on the most profitable 400 selections. I'm sure others would disagree, that's merely my view.

The Schmile

[rails run]

Thanks for your reply TheSchmile. So the answer may be more about ones own preference rather than some set of maths. I wasn't thinking in terms of the systems being related... it was more about the relationship the POT % has on betting activity. I'll have to tinker with this a bit on paper.

[rails run]

If I was betting to a percentage of bank I think it would be better to run with the 8% system so as the bank grows it compounds more rapidly. Hmmmm, I wish I'd payed more attention in school! :)