Closed a/c

[Mark]

Anyone ever had an a/c that is losing banned by a bookie?
SPORTSBET are the sooks that do this............unbelievable.

[Shaun]

From my understanding they profile the accounts and if you are not losing enough they will close it, something like 10% of turnover or less because they don't want to take the chance you will win it back.

[Sands]

Anyone ever had an a/c that is losing banned by a bookie?
SPORTSBET are the sooks that do this............unbelievable.
Yeah, very unbelievable
Been there, done that, moved on

[The Ocho]

Surely there's got to be some recourse through consumer affairs or something. That is just plainly ridiculous.

Is it even legal to do that?
What conditions have you violated?

[Sands]

..
What conditions have you violated?
Winning too much :)

[Mark]

That's not it.
Opened with $2000, got to $3000, withdrew $1000.
Down to almost zero, deposited $2000 yeaterday and can't use it today.
So it was minus almost $1000 over a few weeks.
I'd like to say what I really think of these leeches but then I get banned from here.
I did complain to NT Licencing Commission who after some prompting took a month to get back to me with the fact that they are a waste of time, space and money toothless tigers who are not able to do anything. What's the point of them? The online bookies do what they want. Before long we will be back to all tote betting and the takeout will skyrocket.

[The Ocho]

Winning too much :)
So, even when it's a losing account your winning too much.
HAHAHA :D

How can they do that? :confused:

[Mark]

Hi guys, a few replies got in there while I was typing.

Sands, it was a losing a/c.

The Ocho, as I stated. the NT Licencing Commission is a waste of everything.
Their reply was that the bookies state that they reserve the right to ban whoever they like for no reason, so they've broken no rules.

Next question, how do you start up your own Online Bookie business?

[Sands]

Betting sports (and / or) racing / pacing / chasing?

[Sands]

Follow-on from your thread in March, Mark?

http://www.propun.com.au/racing_forums/showthread.php?t=23585

[Raven]

Perhaps they have some info on you from another outlet?

[Mark]

Yes Sands, but different a/c.

Raven, it's a losing a/c !!! Why close a losing a/c?

[Chrome Prince]

Because they can see you're not a mug, or the type of punter they want.
It's immoral, but that's the way it is.
You withdrew $1,000 when ahead, so they can see you're not a mug.
All online bookies share profiles on clients.

I worked with the son of a leading rails bookmaker, and he told me that his father monitored the winning smart money. They used this to their advantage to set prices, lay off and he got his son to punt with other "places".

This is the advantage of using a traditional small bookie, rather than a taken over online enterprise. Smaller bookies have usually been at it for years and are old school, they will take your bets and not ban you, as long as you are not seen to be betting all the firmers from the track in advance.

The big corporates a weak, they only want mugs.
There is enough internet evidence that all the bigger online bookies, including the State run ones will close you down unless they can see you are a clear loser.
Just this week emails were sent from another recently taken over bookie closing accounts.

It's a shame really, when Mark Read and Colin Tidy et al were at the helm they never banned anyone that I know of.
Unless you were seen to have advanced knowledge of fluctuations and were trying to take advantage of them, which is fair enough.

I am in possession of a personal email from Mark's son telling me that they would take on anyone.

What amazes me is that with the advent of so much competition and places that won't close you down, can they afford to turn people away unless they are taking them for a fortune.

Could this be the impact of the turnover tax, could this be that they can't afford to keep winning accounts, accounts which turnover higher amounts even though they are losing.

I think they want the little mugs, the blokes that put in $200 and lose it all on the Saturday.

For what it's worth I would approach some of the higher profile and privately owned bookies. I know they are still old school and welcome punters.

As you say, the current situation stinks!

[Mark]

And now no betting on the Kentucky Derby via BF. Things are really looking bleak for racing.

[Chrome Prince]

Mark and others,

I have been speaking with someone who worked at one of our leading online bookies about this.
They get reports and profiles about all accounts on a weekly basis and on a daily basis on flagged accounts.
I won't list everything, but there are some tips to keep your account active.
They are particularly worried about exposure and potential winning accounts.
They look at not only the bets and odds, but also your method of betting.
Basically they want losing punters and they can ascertain this from the way you bet and run your account.
They can fairly quickly spot a professional because professionals operate differently to mugs. They do not want professionals.
So here are the tips from the conversation I had.
This person has no axe to grind, he saw my point of view.

1. Never bet in the same way all the time.
If you have a strategy like arbing against betfair or backing firmers from the track, make sure this is masked by lots of other bets.

2. Don't treat the account like a freebie account.
Don't let the account only be used for special offers, they will flag you as a professional.

3. Never withdraw winnings!
Mugs don't withdraw winnings (usually).
Find a race where the bookie price is close to the
Betfair price and have a big bet on something with little chance of winning.
Lay it back on Betfair. Then you have lost big at the bookies but just transferred your winnings to your Betfair account.
Of course, if the horse wins, you've basically had it :(

4. If you're making a book from differences in odds and dutch betting a couple of their better prices, round off the amounts like $35.00 instead of $32.50 or worse $32.75. Also make your book to an odd amount, instead of $100 or $1,000, make it $125 or $115 or something. Or as Mark said, back the favourite for slightly less.
He went on a bit, but this is the gist of it.

[Mark]

CP, thanks for this, I pretty much went tick, tick, tick, yes no wonder I've had 5 a/c's closed.

A mate of mine also said have mug bets on some of the footy markets, because betting on the footy is really gambling.

[Rogan Josh]

Thanks for the do-list Chrome

[Pugnosis]

Just to share my story.

Recently I decided to follow a system with UK racing where I was backing horses that I believed were over the odds. Therefore anywhere between 20-50 bets per night. Decided on $20 bets to begin with. I decided to only use Bookies that had Best Odds Guaranteed, therefore in Australia that limited me to Bet365, Boylesports, BetFred and BetVictor.

Started on July 1st.

Placed six of the bets with BetVictor - tried a 7th and the screen flashed up account closed. Went to live chat and they told me it was a traders decision to close my account. They would honor the six bets and then refund the rest of my money. (I had deposited $250 they refunded $210 as I had one winner at $4)

BetFred - Had several bets over the week. My account went from $250 to $547. Tried a bet on the 9th of July and the screen said I could only put $1.10 on the horse. Was told my account has been restricted and no further details will be given but the restrictions might be lifted. I can only place random amounts since with only one $20 bet being allowed (on a $3.25 shot). Most have only allowed me on for under $5.00 though.

Boylesports - Account went from $250 to $445 and couldn't place any bets last night. The message said 'risk management' or something like that. When I queried the matter live chat just quoted the message and said no bans had been put on my account. Will try again tonight but not confident.

Bet365 - Have been fine so far! This was one account I had used extensively this year so betting patterns were a bit different but with this system alone I am about $200 up.

So in 2 weeks banned from 1 and restricted by 2. Not happy about it as it severely restricts my options. My theory is they must have something flagged about me to do it so quickly (especially BetVictor!) Yet I am definitely not a winning punter over time with UK bookmakers! It has been more of a blackhole.

[Lord Greystoke]

Mark and others,

I have been speaking with someone who worked at one of our leading online bookies about this.
They get reports and profiles about all accounts on a weekly basis and on a daily basis on flagged accounts.
I won't list everything, but there are some tips to keep your account active.
They are particularly worried about exposure and potential winning accounts.
They look at not only the bets and odds, but also your method of betting.
Basically they want losing punters and they can ascertain this from the way you bet and run your account.
They can fairly quickly spot a professional because professionals operate differently to mugs. They do not want professionals.
So here are the tips from the conversation I had.
This person has no axe to grind, he saw my point of view.

1. Never bet in the same way all the time.
If you have a strategy like arbing against betfair or backing firmers from the track, make sure this is masked by lots of other bets.

2. Don't treat the account like a freebie account.
Don't let the account only be used for special offers, they will flag you as a professional.

3. Never withdraw winnings!
Mugs don't withdraw winnings (usually).
Find a race where the bookie price is close to the
Betfair price and have a big bet on something with little chance of winning.
Lay it back on Betfair. Then you have lost big at the bookies but just transferred your winnings to your Betfair account.
Of course, if the horse wins, you've basically had it :(

4. If you're making a book from differences in odds and dutch betting a couple of their better prices, round off the amounts like $35.00 instead of $32.50 or worse $32.75. Also make your book to an odd amount, instead of $100 or $1,000, make it $125 or $115 or something. Or as Mark said, back the favourite for slightly less.
He went on a bit, but this is the gist of it.
Hi Chrome, would you suggest a similar strategy with a UT account or dont they fall into the same bucket as corporates, online bookies etc?

Cheers LG

[rhino82]

What's a UT account

[Lord Greystoke]

Its a 'U Terrible Looser Account'

You don't have one?

LG

PS Unitab = now Tattsbet

[Chrome Prince]

You must mask your strategy if up, something like martingale favourites until you lose more than you deposited, arb it back on Betfair.
Sure it will cost you, but your account should be safe. So although they're looking at the value bets, they're happy for you to continue because they all have a chuckle over morning tea about what a loser you are ;)
Donuts are on me :D

[rhino82]

..until you lose more than you deposited, arb it back on Betfair.
Sure it will cost you, but your account should be safe.
Tattsbet account safe but in the red, why bother? Just do your thing on Betfair!?

[Chrome Prince]

Not Tattsbet, bookie account.
Back at bookie and lose, money is layed on Betfair, easy transfer of winnings and bookie thinks you lost, so is happy to keep taking wagers from you.