The Outing of the System Skeptics.

[Star]

Even though this is the Systems area of this forum I am starting to wonder if everybody here actually has a working system or has a genuine interest in finding one.

Some of the replies to threads sort of gives me an impression that apples are not apples and their might be a few oranges thrown in here to confuse.

Now, it does not worry me unduly, but maybe we should get the Skeptics to come out of the closet and give us their thoughts on why they think that way.

If we do that then I think we will be able to discuss the whys and wherefores and what benefits Systems, and I can throw in here staking plans, have or have not produce, if any.

Star

[Lord Greystoke]

With all due respect... are you nuts Star?

If you have checked threads over the last 3m you will see various 'learned' contributors trying out (and reporting on) systems that are actually working?

Cheers LG

[moeee]

maybe we should get the Skeptics to come out of the closet and give us their thoughts on why they think that way.

Well I have only been back 10 minutes from suspension and know EXACTLY what happens when members thoughts are criticised.
Enjoy your holiday whoever chooses to play this Game.

[norisk]

Depends on your definition of 'system', I reckon there are probably many differing opinions as to what exactly one is.

So I will kick it off - I produce my own ratings & with the application of a few tweaks with regards to actual price, produce a set selections that without any filters are profitable, add a few simple filters & away we go - so is this a 'system'? spose so although I don't look at it that way as it's been too much hard work & time in development to classify it as such.

I don't believe there are any strictly mechanical systems such as 'hno1, last start 7 days, 59.0kg, barrier <5, etc etc' that are feasible, but defend the right of those that wish to speculate on them.

[Lord Greystoke]

Here is a broad definition...

System = a set of rules or processes which produce a desired outcome

Whether that system is efficient or not ie produces a desired result or level of results on a consistent basis and at an acceptable cost (or level of risk), is another thing perhaps?

Discuss... LOL !

LG

[evajb001]

norisk, what you've described is essentially the same process i'm following now. I use a spreadsheet to complete my ratings, use some really simple filters to improve the results (i.e. Don't bet country QLD, Don't touch Slow/Heavy tracks etcetc) and away I go. I then base my staking on overlays and thats my process.

Is this a system, strictly speaking probably not but i classify it as my process/system.

Personally i've only started participating in this forum over the last 1-2 months and I've found the discussion in a vast majority of threads to be helpful and that most people genuinely want to help each other. That doesn't mean giving away the keys to the kingdom as some people here expect (for some reason?) but if you were to put every bit of pure gold hidden in some of these thread's into a notebook and utilised it, I feel you'd be hansomely surprised.

People here aren't going to give you the answers on a platter but without the comments from people like AngryPixie, TheSchmile, Shaun (A+), garyf and a few others that I can't name off the top of my head, i'd be completely lost. However taking snippets from the insight that each of them have given has enabled me to find an approach that works for me and is to date (even though its a small sample time) is working profitably.

Even people like moeee who I haven't had run ins with myself but know his type, can sometimes express their opinion abruptly, but they opinions are still valuable even if they go against the grain of the majority. Actually in these circumstances sometimes they are even more valuable.

Anyhow enough rambling, I feel some of the discussion around here since i've been a part of the forums has been fantastic. Sometimes it can take some reading but i've found its well worth it.

[Barny]

I've got a decent database and I delved into historical data with my filters and came up with quite a few systems that would have given me a POT of well in excess of 50%, several in the 90's%.

As I've posted before one simple filter can turn a break even system into a decent POT. As I've also posted before, since using this database I've discovered that there's a fine line between winning and losing.

My filters are my filters and a re not the common ones "everyone" seems to regard as non-negotiable. I think it weould be nigh on impossible to develop a systemw without a database because when you pump hundreds of different filters in, you see which one's positively affect the POT, you see which one's reduce the number of bets. You get a feel for useful filters.

I'm quite sure I could go on without the database now and develop a few successful systems, because I'm using filters I never thought of previously. I'm looking inot gear changes at the moment. Blinkers on first time seems to have a decent affect on 10% to 20% of horses and I'm guessing that the younger the horse the more it will help them before they get into bad habits. I also like tongue tie on first time.

It might be just as simple as looking at prepost of $4.00 to $11.00 and finding the one horse that on form simply cannot win. Someone has rated it a chance, and prepost for whatever reason is a good guide, so by avoiding the popular filters you might be giving yourself the chance of getting well over the odds.

[Barny]

Or you could look at Sat Metro and look at those in the market not tipped at all by the panel of tipsters. Another method of going against the more popular filters.

Do what everyone else is doing and the pure weight of money in the pool drops the price to a point where over time you just cannot finish in front.

[Raven]

I don't believe there are any strictly mechanical systems such as 'hno1, last start 7 days, 59.0kg, barrier <5, etc etc' that are feasible, but defend the right of those that wish to speculate on them.I used to think like that too. I used to be a "ratings / overlays" advocate but in the end my dwindling punting bank provided enough evidence that that wasn't working either. So I started looking at systems again.

I must say that I find systems betting a little boring. Its a wild ride too. But the profit margin is there and isn't that what this game's all about?

[Star]

Well I have only been back 10 minutes from suspension and know EXACTLY what happens when members thoughts are criticised.
Enjoy your holiday whoever chooses to play this Game.Moeee,

With all due respects, I did not know you had a suspension. I can understand how some people can get upset by some replies. Gee. Even Lg. asked if I am nuts?

But that is not the point, What I am trying to do is to challenge each and every individual who comes in here to contribute something.

I guess even just having a few qualifying rules as to the races to be bet eliminates them from the skeptics but really I wondered why anybody who is not remotely interested in putting some structure into their betting would come in here.

To me it is a bit like an Orangeman turning up to an IRA convention.

I have nothing against contributors for being Naysayers as long as we can all contribute calmly and trying to be as objective as we can with some allowances for an individuals personality.

Star

[Lord Greystoke]

Moeee,

Gee. Even Lg. asked if I am nuts?

But that is not the point, What I am trying to do is to challenge each and every individual who comes in here to contribute something.

I have nothing against contributors for being Naysayers as long as we can all contribute calmly and trying to be as objective as we can with some allowances for an individuals personality.

Star

Star what I find somewhat confusing is that..
1. you come across as a kind of 'passive self imposed moderator'
2. at times you don't appear to do enough research on the postings made here (particular those of substance) prior to posting your thoughts, views
3. there are many positive contributors on here, in fact most of us provide something of value over time, even if it's what not to do!

eg you started the thread with this statement...

"Even though this is the Systems area of this forum I am starting to wonder if everybody here actually has a working system or has a genuine interest in finding one"

Regards the 2 points (assumptions?) you make above, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming! But it's only obvious if you have done the leg / eye work and actually picked up on the quality of some of the posts / posters on here and the nuts n bolts of the successful systems they have / are developing and the positive results being yielded and reported on in detail

Am I missing something somewhat obvious here (has happened before!) ??


Cheers LG

[bernie]

Even people like moeee ..... can sometimes express their opinion abruptly, but they opinions are still valuable even if they go against the grain of the majority. Actually in these circumstances sometimes they are even more valuable.I totally agree.


.

[Moderator 3]

Well I have only been back 10 minutes from suspension and know EXACTLY what happens when members thoughts are criticised.
Enjoy your holiday whoever chooses to play this Game.That post, crtiticising moderation, is not acceptable, Moeee.

Constructive debate is encouraged here.

The Forum Terms of Use do not permit posters ridiculing others and posting rubbish here such as referring to someone's "poo."

Take care.

Moderator 3.

[Moderator 3]

This thread has been closed. It is not constructive in a positive manner.

We do not need threads about "outing" people here.

Moderator.