Cloud Servers

[Shaun]

I used to think i knew a lot about computers and stuff, i set up my own networks at home and run virtual servers, i have even run a few websites using hosting companies.

But i have lost touch and others on here know more about what i need than i do, i understand how cloud systems work, rather than setting up a single shared server they use the resources of many servers to create the server you need.

What i don't understand so much is what can you run from these servers, for example could you run a windows server so you can install programs you need to run a bot?

Could i install Gruss, Excel and Betstream to place bets with the TAB or am i limited on what i can install.

[UselessBettor]

What i don't understand so much is what can you run from these servers, for example could you run a windows server so you can install programs you need to run a bot?

Could i install Gruss, Excel and Betstream to place bets with the TAB or am i limited on what i can install.
The answer is yes. But typically cloud servers are used for things which scale. For example an email server would benefit from cloud servers.

The cloud is just a server (or group of servers) you connect to which is hosted over the network. So email is great as you can put your email server out in the cloud. Its terrible when you lose internet connection though as you no longer have access to the cloud ... lol

[norisk]

What i don't understand so much is what can you run from these servers, for example could you run a windows server so you can install programs you need to run a bot?

Could i install Gruss, Excel and Betstream to place bets with the TAB or am i limited on what i can install.

I am in no rush but this is what I am planning to do Shaun & what I assume Angry Pixie is currently doing in one way or another. The providers I have looked at have a number of operating systems you can choose from, Windows 2008 Server for example.

My concerns are mainly as to the speed of these servers as Betting Assistant processes my bets around the 5 to 15 sec mark prior to jump, so can I rely on these things process my bets without problems, probably only one way to find out.

Angry Pixie, if you read this, if you could relate your experience with cloud servers it would be much appreciated.

[Chrome Prince]

A cloud server is simply another large virtual server.
The cloud enables you to do anything as you would previously on a virtual or hard server. The advantage for a business is that email, files, folders, in fact all data can be held on the cloud rather than an in house server.
Cost is cheaper for a business as they don't need to run or maintain their own server and software.

For simple applications, it is a step forward.
I have warned several of my clients not to progress to the cloud for a number of reasons.
1. Data is held and controlled by the provider.
2. If the internet goes down, they cannot access anything at all.
3. The biggie - Data loss. If the data gets lost, it's lost, beyond their control.
While the providers do have backups, there have been a number of recent cases of massive data loss that couldn't be reclaimed. It's estimated, but not publicised that data loss has cost companies into the billions.

I won't bore people, but those interested here is a story regarding Amazon.
http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-lost-data-2011-4

Amazon was a while ago, but it's still happening today.
One of my customers is a government department who "migrated" to the cloud against my advice. Last week I received a call asking for help as they lost all their tenders and payroll information!

[Lord Greystoke]

Interesting post, Mind boggling stuff.

Big brother gone wrong?

Could you open the pod bay doors and give me my precious data back please, HAL !!

LG

[norisk]

I recall a conference I attended about 10 years ago where the promoters floated the idea of hosting our client data in a 'cloud' - we all looked at each other & rolled eyes just at the privacy/security issues alone & as Chrome Prince has described above it can be fraught with danger.

However for the purpose of running a bot which is monitored daily I think there could be some benefits.

[AngryPixie]

My concerns are mainly as to the speed of these servers as Betting Assistant processes my bets around the 5 to 15 sec mark prior to jump, so can I rely on these things process my bets without problems, probably only one way to find out.

Angry Pixie, if you read this, if you could relate your experience with cloud servers it would be much appreciated.

So as discussed elsewhere I run a bot on each of two "micro spot instance" Win2008R2 virtual servers with Amazon in Dublin. Both machines have been running continuously (other than doing the occasional Windows Update) for about a year. Each is costing around $12/month.

I've had no issues with speed as Betfair also maintain a data centre near Dublin. I actually think the price updates are a little faster than if run locally here from Australia. Certainly for the UK races they are.

You need to understand what you're wanting to achieve first as there'll be some applications ( i.e. realtime trading) where the latency introduced via your RDP session to the server could cause you to miss trades. For data collection or set-and-forget bot transactions something like this is perfect. For my application I wanted to be able to have the bot running 24/7 and be able to access it from whereever I was in the world via an internet connection.

Shaun yes you can run pretty much anything on the Amazon virtual servers. In fact you have to maintain them completely including OS patches and security access etc. Amazon aren't interested in doing any of this for you.

I also use Amazon servers professionally and run many instances with them, some taking advantage of the scalability UB refers to. For example we run a multi-user application that upon reaching a certain server load will automatically start additional servers to meet that load, and then shut them down when the peak eases. All depends on how much you want to spend.

Like physical machines, virtual machines have the same issues with viruses, bad updates and file corruption etc. so can suffer the same downtime issues.

Happy to help out where I can.

[AngryPixie]

as Chrome Prince has described above it can be fraught with danger.

It can but if you don't understand what your getting into you shouldn't be doing it any way.

[norisk]

how boring would that be!;)

[Shaun]

Sounds interesting, i might look into it as i don't need to store data and would backup daily any info i needed i just want to free up my home pc with out the expense of buying a new pc.

I know some providers are bit iffy with the programs you run on there systems but sounds like these guys may be ok as you have to maintain the system yourself.

[AngryPixie]

I've just spun up a Win2008R2 Datacenter virtual server at Amazon's new Sydney data centre. Performance is *EXCELLENT*.

[Shaun]

Can you pop that url in here again please.

[norisk]

http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/

going to give it a whirl over the weekend

[Shaun]

Hey AngryPixie any chance you could give me a hand on what i need to setup for this, i have got the account and services sorted but have no idea what i need.

[Shaun]

Ok, i think i have set it up correctly, i have a desktop similar to when i set up a win xp virtual server in win 7, just not sure if i have other configs right, looks like i am using the free service for new customers not sure if this will be enough.

[AngryPixie]

Hi Shaun

What did you set up? I use a Windows 2008R2 micro spot instance. Should look more like Win7 with it's classic dress on.

[Shaun]

I copied office to the disk last night, took about 5 hours with my internet speed i will install it today.

The specs i have are.

Windows_Server-2008-SP2-English-32Bit
Processor Xeon E5430 @ 2.66Ghz
615 MB Ram

As i said am using there free one to test, i know i will have to increase the ram but the rest should be ok.

[AngryPixie]

I copied office to the disk last night, took about 5 hours with my internet speed i will install it today.

The specs i have are.

Windows_Server-2008-SP2-English-32Bit
Processor Xeon E5430 @ 2.66Ghz
615 MB Ram

As i said am using there free one to test, i know i will have to increase the ram but the rest should be ok.Oh Office! Thats interesting. RDP is very slow and very chatty for data transfers. Might have made a mess of you free data transfer quota. :eek:

Those specs look like a micro instance though. :)

[Shaun]

Oh well, all very new to this stuff so still looking around the site, i set up an alarm for biiliing.

What Ram are you using at the moment?

The 30 gig disk space should be enough for what i need.

Any idea what the free disk transfer quota is or where i can find it?

[Shaun]

Free server is no good for me, they limit you to location in the US and betfair can't operate from there, i just tried to logon with my BA and get the message restricted from location.

[AngryPixie]

Is this what you mean when you say free?

http://aws.amazon.com/free/

This is the only free stuff I know about and this can be used from any of their locations. Did you choose the right location when you set it up? It defaults to US east coast I think.

[Shaun]

Yes, i will see if i can have it in a different location, will send them an e-mail.

[AngryPixie]

No they will not move it for you.

Just terminate it and spin it up another either here or Ireland.

Select the location from the top right corner of the console. Near Help.

[Shaun]

What do you use to upload your files?

[Shaun]

Ok done, i suppose there is no way to transfer the data from that other server, it is still running right now.

I did change ther config to the 2008R2 64 bit on this new server located in Sydney.

[AngryPixie]

Shaun

I don't. I just download the bot from the vendor and plug in the settings. Don't use it for anything else. I do copy the bot logs down to a local spreadsheet though.

What else are you wanting to do?

Kill the US server by selecting terminate from the menu. It'll hang around for a short while but will eventually disappear.

[AngryPixie]

Ok done, i suppose there is no way to transfer the data from that other server, it is still running right now.

I did change ther config to the 2008R2 64 bit on this new server located in Sydney.

The memory management is much better under R2 so 600 odd MB of RAM is suitable for a dedicated purpose but things will slow if your wanting to run Office and a bot etc.

[Shaun]

Same as you, but i need excel to run my bot as i use Betting Assistant, i might look at open office but i don't think my excel sheets will integrate very well with it.

I also need to change this disk size or change back to 32bit as i have almost used all the disk space before i add office files.

[AngryPixie]

Yep I use a 60GB disk. It's configurable during setup.

[Shaun]

Do you use the 64bit edition? if so what sort of disk space do you have left, if we have to add updates later down the track it could become cramped for me with 6.5 gig left.

[Shaun]

oic i might need to look at that, that would fall outside the free usage but from what you have said the cost are low anyways.

How many servers you have running?

I think you said cost you about $12 a month, is that per server.

[AngryPixie]

Yep R2 is 64bit only. I've got just over 35GB free. so the OS is using the first 25GB.

Sorry got to fly off to band practice. See you later.

[AngryPixie]

Shaun

You'll also want to keep an eye on time. The time on virtual machines can wander quite a bit more than on physical. I generally install something like Tardis (http://www.kaska.demon.co.uk/download.htm) and ask it to check the time at 10 minute intervals. You could also do a bit of a reg hack and ask Windows built-in NTP client to do the same if you wanted.

Sorry should have mentioned this earlier but didn't think of it.

[Shaun]

Np will look into it, as i said i like the idea of running stuff from a different machine mainly because of the conflicts i get with multiple excel pages open running macros so it is not something i need on a permanent basis, my system runs 24/7 and network speed and usage is not an issue at the moment.

[AngryPixie]

How many servers you have running?

I think you said cost you about $12 a month, is that per server.

Privately, one in Ireland and one in Sydney now. Professionally many more.

Yes the current spot prices work out to be about 17 cents a day per server then you have the storage and data transfer costs. Last time I worked it out is was around $12/month/server.

[Chrome Prince]

Shaun, just a heads up.
If you're running Betting Assistant with excel which has macros, I think you'll need more memory (ram). 600mb will probably see it lock up or freeze, especially considering you'll be remote desktoping in at the same time.
It would be o.k if it's a resource sharing or load balancing server, but I'm not sure that the ram is given the specs offered.

[AngryPixie]

Shaun how are you getting on?

[Shaun]

The tests i am running this week are on my system, i am setting it up with different memory limits to see how it handles.

I am just weighting up if a cloud server is what i need or i am happy with my own system running a virtual XP.

[blackdog1]

Posted this on the wrong thread yesterday

Hi Shaun and Angry P, I'm interested in trying out this service, because I'm relocating to the US for a few years. Can you set up a server in Australia with the minimal setup just using Firefox to be able to use my accounts?

When setting up an initial free account I'm asked to provide my credit card numbers, bit hesitant about that.
Willing to pay for service I need but for the "free" service I'm a bit cautious, since I don't know if it's what I want?

Any help is appreciated.
thanks

[Shaun]

Not sure about the CC as it was a while back when i set mine up, i know my costs if my sever is not running but set up is less then $10 a month and about double that depends on usage and of course configuration.

If it is through Amazon i have had no issues with them with setting up and changing different payment methods.

As far as running it you still need to access it via Remote Desktop if you are using a windows server as i do, but this can be done from any PC or even a mobile device, but this all depends on what you want to use it for, i have Gruss and Office with excel installed on mine so i need to start it with my browser then once running i access it to start Gruss and excel, just have to be careful of lag, but also depends on the configurations, i have a micro server that runs very low specs as that is all i need.

[blackdog1]

Thank you Shaun, all I want is access to the TAB and Luxbet sites, the bookies and Betfair work with VPN, but not the others. They use some sort of sophisticated algorithm to detect where you connect from specially Luxbet.

You think Teamviewer would be OK for remote access? I'm familiar with that one.

[blackdog1]

Thank you Shaun, all I want is access to the TAB and Luxbet sites, the bookies and Betfair work with VPN, but not the others. They use some sort of sophisticated algorithm to detect where you connect from specially Luxbet.

You think Teamviewer would be OK for remote access? I'm familiar with that one. I got my foot in the door at the moment but that's all, I thought I knew a bit about computers but I'm stumped with this. I think it's either far more complex than it needs be or I'm stupid or both?
At the moment I have set up the server but can't connect to it through RDC, keep reading but it looks like the instructions were written for people who don't need it anyway.

[Shaun]

http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/WindowsGuide/get-set-up-for-amazon-ec2.html#create-a-key-pair

Did you create a key pair when you setup the server if so but you are not sure where you saved it do a search on your computer for .pem this is the file that contains your password that you need to use, then you can follow these instructions to connect.

http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/WindowsGuide/connecting_to_windows_instance.html

[Shaun]

your other option if you wish to just use websites is hola it is a add in for browsers that let you access websites that you normally can't from your country location, for instances i use it when i want to watch races that are not shown for free in Australia connecting via a US server, have used it in the past for watching football on the net when i didn't have access to a tv.

[blackdog1]

http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/WindowsGuide/get-set-up-for-amazon-ec2.html#create-a-key-pair

Did you create a key pair when you setup the server if so but you are not sure where you saved it do a search on your computer for .pem this is the file that contains your password that you need to use, then you can follow these instructions to connect.

http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/WindowsGuide/connecting_to_windows_instance.htmldone all of the above, but what I missed is to download an RDC connection file from them, will do it later on.

Hola doesn't work on Luxbet, I'm told, they use something like "deep packet inspection" and pick up your ISP location. Doesn't matter I can always set up my laptop as a physical server before we move and leave it here with my son.

[blackdog1]

Nope, I can't make it work, shamefully admit I'm not good enough.
To top it off they charged me $2.48 for absolutely nothing. Never set eyes on a virtual screen yet, I have set up for the bare minimum free access service so either I have made a bad mistake somewhere along the line or the $12 a month cost AP was quoting has changed?

Give up punting when we move or set up a server is the only option.
These regulations are really the pits. Why can't we have access? Big brother or what?

Liked to know what others think.

Thanks Shaun

[TheSchmile]

Hi Team,

I have set up the basic win version on the AWS, however want to run Bet selector & Bf Bot Manager.

Not sure of the specs I'll need. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Schmiley

[blackdog1]

Hi Team,

I have set up the basic win version on the AWSHi TheSchmile, could you do a small test for me please?
When online at AWS connect to Luxbet and see if you can log in if you have an account, if not, try to sign up, no need to follow trough just test if they except your location. If yes then all is good and I will persevere, if not then the cloud is useless for me anyway.

thanks

[Shaun]

Hi Team,

I have set up the basic win version on the AWS, however want to run Bet selector & Bf Bot Manager.

Not sure of the specs I'll need. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Schmiley

Only way to know is run it and connect and see how things go, you will get some lag with the connection but that's normal.

I run Gruss and an excel sheet on mine, seams ok but the next level up would be better, mine is mainly for testing at the moment but i would increase to a higher level when needed.

[TheSchmile]

Hi Shaun,

I'm trying the free version and it's painfully slow this morning, need to upgrade for sure. Anyone else out there recommend the specs I need?? All help greatly appreciated!

Blackdog1, if I can get this bad boy up and running, I'll test Luxbet for you. Perhaps check the zone that you set the instance up in and make sure it's Australia?

Hope you had a great weekend!

[TheSchmile]

Blackdog1,

After an excruciating wait in today's internet speed terms, I was able to login to Luxbet.

Must be the International zone settings.

As soon as I have this whole AWS thing sussed, I will let you know and only be too happy to help!!

[Shaun]

I noticed that they are using a higher system spec than i use, i have 615mb memory the min now is 1gig with a better processor, think my cost is 0.009 per hour for a windows server.

[Shaun]

I found this cost calculator, might be of some help.

http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html

[blackdog1]

I found this cost calculator, might be of some help.

http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.htmlthanks Shaun but quite honestly cost is the least of my concern, it's less than peanuts compared to what I can make with punting if I can get on. lux is the only one now where I can put in a sizable fixed bet most of the time. I genuinely envy ppl who have unlimited access to bookies despite winning fortunes, "allegedly".
I only mentioned the initial charge because I couldn't see what it was for?

My problem is that I found the site and the setup excruciatingly complex and daunting. Surely there has to be an easier way to set it up? Like why don't they offer a paid service to set it up for clients and hand it over? A you said, once it's going it's like windows?