Betting Exchanges doomed?

[Neil]

See our reply to a piece of propoganda in a Melbourne Sunday paper titled "Exchanges doomed" at http://www.propun.com.au/betting_advice.html

[Redcraze]

I am somewhat surprised and taken aback at the personal attack on one Rod Nicholson, that was potrayed in your answer through the site directed in your post.

I joined this forum because it stated that no personal abuse will be tolerated - yet your answer to Nicholson's opinion, appears to me, that it is in every way a personal attack, using his vested interests, as the target.

Where are the moderators?

I am in favour of SP operators for the very same reasons you have proffered in acceptance of the betting exchanges and I would like to know, for argumentative sake, how you stand in that arena.... FOR or AGAINST?

Directing the term TROGOLDYTE to his vested interest is, in my opinion an attack on his character from the back door.

I will state that I do not know Nicholson but I have read his articles over the years, particularly when I lived in Melbourne some years ago for a period of 15 years.I FOUND HIM INTELLIGENT IN WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

I iterate - I DO NOT KNOW HIM but I do respect his right to state his opinion, as I do yours but I do not tolerate abuse of some one because their opinion does not agree with
with mine.

Maybe, just maybe Neil, you have a vested interest in a betting exchange or exchanges.
Maybe not.

BUT never think they are inevitable.... LIKE SP OPERATORS they will be banned because governments do not get their 15 - 20% out of it. THEY WILL LEGISLATE and bring pressure to bare on the financial istitutions, as we have already witnessed in recent weeks.

I would love to have an account with AMERICA TAB as they bet on 2 Australian race meetings each night, 6 nights a week. Try it and see if you can succeed. I can't and I offered real money, not credit.

[becareful]

Redcraze,

I have re-read Neils article in the newsletter several times and I can't see how it is a personal attack on Rod Nicholson. The term troglodyte (generally meaning someone living in the past) was only applied to "Rods friends" - basically the TAB's, etc. Now I don't know about you Redcraze but I think that term describes the TABs attitude pretty well and if Rod chooses to simply follow what these people tell him rather than publishing a balanced article or seeking comment from those that are "doomed" then I cant see how you can take offence at people criticising him for this? Again as far as I can see there was no abuse directed at Rod at all.

Not sure what your point with the America Tab was? If you are trying to show that once exchanges are banned from Australia then we wont be able to use them then your example is misguided. The reason you cant bet with a US based betting organisiation is because US law prohibits them from taking bets, not Australian Law. If the TABs do manage to get the government to pass a law it will not stop people using the exchanges. Similarly if the banks stop all credit card transactions to the overseas bookies/exchanges it will just mean that 3rd party e-cash providers will step in to allow the money to be exchanged.

Finally I think that the NT government, based on their past actions, will almost certainly grant a licence to IAS for the exchange they want to start which would mean there is a licenced exchange in Australia so changing the law to prohibit overseas gambling would not work anyway.

[GettingItRight]

Read the article on Sunday Morning and was very annoyed - his list of interested parties made no mention of the battlers who support the industry - the punters.

The problem we have is that there is no representative for the punter, no peak body, no-one to protect our interests. The only way we will be heard is with our money.

[Neil]

There was no personal abuse whatsoever directed at Rod Nicholson.

It may be stretching the point a little to call the vested interests, TABs etc. his "friends", but it is a perfectly acceptable debating technique.

Clearly based upon Rod Nicholson's article he has obtained information from vested interests about their course of action.

Think about it. What is so special about racing? Why does racing think it has the right to demand a royalty, what is it, 5%, from anyone who bets on it.

What about all the other sports? What royalties do they get? If massive amounts of the pool went in royalties etc. we've have a head to head sporting event at $1.50 or so for each side!!!!

Of course, you can try and get away with that in racing, because punters get conned by the individual odds of many horses in a race.

On the surface a market of 130% does not appear as bad as it really is compared to making the same market for a head to head sporting event.

The internet has given individuals freedoms like never before. Betting Exchanges with 95% to 97% of moneys bet being returned to bettors have the potential over time to even increase the amount of money racing gets. No operator has said they are prepared to pay nothing to Racing.

If people believe they have a genuine chance of breaking around even or coming ahead over the long term many more people will bet plus there will be substantial increases in betting turnover.

We should be leading the way in embracing change and new technology instead of living in the past and trying to outlaw change.

Look at how few Australian racing bookies have live prices and live internet betting. It's an absolute disgrace.

We should be making use of the internet to attract a world market to betting on our sporting events instead of trying to ban Australians from using the internet to bet on overseas operated sights.

That is completely insular and dated thinking. It won't succeed. Nor will the scare tactics advertising of the NSW TAB on Sky Racing. Not in a democracy.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neil on 2003-05-08 10:48 ]</font>

[Redcraze]

Becareful - thank you for your post it reads extremely well and as ever, informative.

But are you and Neil implying that he is the mouth piece or puppet of the vested interests icluding the TABs and therefore the article is not his own personal opinion.
Maybe he can see an angle where this form of betting doesn't benefit the industry as a whole.



Exhange betting is another option in the world of gambling and a welcome addition to the punting side of the racing industry,of which I belong.

However, their are obviously people from other segments of the industry who do not see it as a benefit to the indusry as a whole.

Neil's and possibly your perception that Rod Nicholson is promoting the "vested interests" viewpoint, would then make him a TROGLODYTE by association.



And depending on which dictionary you use the definition of TROGLODYTE can mean "caveman like - primitive - living in the past - lacking intelligence".

[becareful]

Redcraze,

Without seeing the full text of the article I cant really comment decisively on what Rod said but from the excerpts in Neils article it does seem that he was reporting on the TABs "ban the exchanges" approach without offering any balancing views from the exchanges themselves or how they would benefit (or hurt) the punters. Maybe if someone has the full article they can either post the full text or confirm in more detail what Rod did, or did not, say!

If Rod was, in fact, actively promoting a ban on exchanges then, in my opinion, this would probably qualify him for the "Troglodyte-by-association" label as you put it. If however, he was simply reporting the TABs position without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing then obviously that is not the case. Again without seeing the actual article I don't know whether he was simply reporting or promoting the TAB stance.

"Primitive - Living in the past - lacking intelligence" - I would have thought that exactly sums up the current way the TABs are run! :smile: