Breeding, Training, Punting.

[Chrome Prince]

It's time to pass on my knowledge that has been acquired over the years.
My grandfather was a very successful racehorse and greyhound trainer in Ireland. He had winners at Limerick, and all surrounding courses.
He once picked the card at a racecourse just by looking at the parade ring and became notorius for winning a small fortune in those days.

Personally, I have owned Chrome Prince sired by Coal King which won numerous picnic races. Hence the forum username.

I have very firm opinions about breeding and training, horse care and parade ring punting. I don't profess to be an authority, but what
i do share has stood the test of time. In fact it has stood for over 100 years.
Punters, breeders, trainers may gain something from my insights, I'm sure there will be professionals who disagree, but from my work with horses, these methods are so successful, they cannot be ignored.

I'll try and post a continuing series in parts.

The breeding industry is going to implode if prices keep soaring for greatly bred duds. Green Monkey in USA was famously sold for U.S. 16 million and retired a maiden. He earned $10,440 in his career and couldn't win a maiden.
His sire was Forestry and Grand sire was the well hailed Storm Cat by Northern Dancer. Along the dam line was some very impressive black type winners including Secretariat.
All professionals thought this horse would be the next champion and champion sire. It is a fact that this $16 million dollar horse did not possess the heart and lungs of his lineage. He looked super in the parade ring as he inherited great conformation and strong profile resemblances to his heritage.

His stud fee of course crashed to a staggeringly poor $5,000USD.
Breeders and owners are getting totally carried away with sire / dam immediate progeny. This used to be the focus and was certainly the most successful way to go for investment to return. It's obvious that overall this is the most successful method, but now is not the most profitable.

Considering the Green Monkey's breeding and heritage, at $5,000USD stud fee, this was the bargain of the century. Granted he isn't going to pass on any speed directly, and may pass on his poor performance, but breeding horses is far more complicated than looking at the sire and dam.

As an example, Green Monkey has sired Kinz Funky Monkey for $5,000 stud fee. 4 starts for 2 placings and 2 wins including the $73,600 Manhattan Beach Stakes, so this dud now has sired a stakes winner.
Other winners include Chongo Verdi, Your Lovely, and Monkey Wench, including some very good placings from other progeny.

Clearly these horses have inherited a mix of the lineage, not a direct result of the sire. That's the point. As an owner, trainer or breeder, there are some very inexpensive sires that were not so successful on the track and yet have outstanding pedigree. These are value sires.

Training.
Unfortunately these days due to costs, horses are only trained to the extent of breaking in and trackwork. They require far more work than what is put in.
I believe in natural horsemanship, getting the horse to overcome it's natural instinct of fear, rather than breaking it's will.
Notorious barrier rogues consistently become barrier rogues, they apply rogue hoods, twist the horse's ear, use a lunge whip, ropes and brute force from the attendants. This is not the fault of the attendants, they do an amazing job in ensuring horse and jockey safety, it is partly the breaker and partly the trainer.
These "rogues" will always be rogues, because their inherent fear is reinforced each time they are loaded and always eventually end up with the horse "going off" and getting cast in the barriers at one time or another.
This sets off a chain reaction, amongst others who might be nervous but comfortable. This domino effect, time wasted, and risk of injury could easily be overcome by some simple natural horse techniques. Most people think the horse is a rogue or doesn't want to race, nothing could be further from the truth, the plain fact is, the horse is extremely frightened. Overcoming this fear is simply a case of instilling confidence patiently. A little ground work can save a horse from injury, and tardy starts.

You can tell a suited racing pattern when you turnout a group of horses and watch them run. There will always be the same leaders, the same off pacers, the same backmarkers, if they run long enough.
On this topic, it saddens me greatly to see the way horses are treated by trainers these days. They are locked up in stables, feed at intervals, taken out for trackwork and excercise and let out on a Sunday afternoon for a short graze. This might sound idyllic, but it's completely un natural.
This shortcut method of training creates many unhappy horses with digestive problems, and vitamin D defficiency.

Horses are pack and graze animals, they need to run free and graze. They also need to be "naked" in the spring / summer to absord natural vitamin D.
Vitamin D supplements do not do the same job as natural vitamin D.
Feeding horses in a stable at various times of the day with boosted nutrients and not allowing them to graze on juicy green pastures, is completely un natural. The old hay bale does not supply the range of nutrients a horse needs. Horses put on bulk in the pasture and trainers do not want to put in the work to keep the bulk of. They'd rather take short cuts to ensure a fit and trim horse. Stables have a purpose, they provide shelter, warmth and safety. That is all they should be used for, and the horse should be free to come and go.

Horses need to be trained naturally, the more effort put in and basic work will build a stronger and healthier horse. It also builds muscle and bone strength. That is why we have so many break downs, shattered bones, popped knees, bowed tendons etc. The amount of preparation put in to today's thoroughbred prior to fast work and racing, is not sufficient to the horse's physical needs. You cannot fast track a horse, you need to build confidence, strength, maturity and patience.

Horses are never nasty.
Horses are either frightened, injured or asserting leadership.
A horse has to be naturally taught that man is the leader, taught with kindness, but firmness.

Apart from breeding, when selecting a horse to own, breed or race:
One should check firstly for heat around all joints, muscles and tendons.
Reject any horse that has bandages, or lumps, bumps or hard nodules in the bones, joints, tendons.
Horses should have a clear sharp eye (almost sparkling), glossy coat and very straight back. The fetlock should not droop but be at a straight angle, with the hoof planting flat on the ground. The toe and heel should hit the ground almost in unison.
A sprinter should be of stocky build with a short back.
A stayer should be of slender build with a long back.
However, one of the most important factors is stride length combined with speed of course.
You can't have a short stride horse that is a black type winner!
You can have a long stride horse that doesn't have speed.
What becomes a champion is a horse with a long stride, with good conformation and speed.

In the parade ring, look at the horses career records.
Look at the eye, the coat, and the stride.
Muscle development and fetlocks.
Of course with unraced horses in the parade ring, check the odds, but concentrate on the eyes, coat and finally stride.

The list of long striding champions is evident:
Frankel
Octagonal
Makybe Diva
Super Impose
Kingston Town
Phar Lap
Secretariat
and of course Black Caviar.

Just a short list.
Reason being the horse takes less strides per 100m and therefore has more in reserve in the heart, lungs and muscles.
The same applies with Greyhounds, though it is a lot harder to detect without slow motion or digital measurement.

Here is a video on the stride of The Green Monkey, very short and proppy:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RN7ZU5AN-0U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Kinz Funky Monkey has nearly double the stride length.

[The Ocho]

Thanks for the thread CP. Very interesting although I cannot tell the difference between the stride of Kinz Funky Monkey and The Green Monkey, but that's just me, hopeless at that sort of thing (or punting in general). But very nice post.

[Chrome Prince]

TO,
It takes a lot of practice to spot the difference.
For example there are a couple of ways to look at stride length, but I must emphasize firstly, that not all good striders have the right engine behind them.
Sometimes they are too slow and basically plodders.

When being paraded, look at the reach of the front legs, the bobbing of the head as the horse takes it's stride. Is the horse taking lots of little steps with the head rapidly bobbing in short sequence.
Or is the horse taking long strides and reaching with the head.

Here's Black Caviar's half-brother.
http://youtu.be/U3xpBvzRMdw

You'll note a couple of things here.
The horse is leading the handler, not vice versa :)
The handler is merely steering.
The action of the front legs is fluid with long slow strides covering a lot of ground with each stride, so much so, they had to remove the other horse from the ring, as he was catching up!
Whether or not he also has the speed is another issue, but the basics are there including the breeding.

[jose]

Walks like he is shinny or feeling something in his legs to my eye CP.
You haven't got a video of the other Monkey by chance so we can compare perhaps?

[Chrome Prince]

Sorry I don't have any footage of Kinz Funky Monkey parading :(

[Chrome Prince]

I have long had an unorthodox view on value breeding.
It seems that the masses are obsessed with the leading sires and broodmares, and while statistically speaking, this is the proven best chance of landing a top racehorse, financially, it is a losing proposition.
The chances of making a profit are outweighed by the overwhelming costs.

I grew up in an era where Sir Tristram was the boom sire, an era where it seemed all Group races had some connection to Sir Tristram, and you couldn't get near him to breed without options in a gold mine.

His only direct son standing at stud is the famous Zabeel @ $100,000 service fee.
And while Zabeel has proven to be a gun sire, this is his only son standing out of all the thousands of colts he sired.
Notably Dr Grace and Kaapstad did stand at stud, but did not become leading sires.

Sir Tristram has only five grandsons standing at stud:
SAVABEEL @ NZD$55,000
RESET @ $16,500
OVER @ $4,400
SUFFICIENT @ NZD$4,000
MCFLIRT @ $3,300

Savabeel, Reset and Sufficient being by Zabeel.

However, the point I'm getting to is that thinking back on Sir Tristram's stud fee and Zabeel's $100,000 fee, surely Sufficient is at a bargain basement price at $4,000. The fact that he has Sir Tristram and Zabeel in his bloodlines and the cheap as chips price, means one could send broodmares 25 times to this sire for the price of one service to Zabeel.
Here's some other opinions of him...

Excellent yearling sales series at Karaka 2013 where his first-crop yearlings averaged $45,000 in the Select Session with a sale topper of $80,000 and an overall sales average of $23,500.

His progeny were purchased at Karaka by some very good judges such as Robert Smerdon, Mike Moroney, Alwyn Tweedie; Paul O'Sullivan; Katrina Alexander and Dick Bothwell.

The Sufficient x Brindillemousse filly was purchased by Robert Smerdon of Aquanita Racing for $80,000.

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks for the thread CP. Very interesting although I cannot tell the difference between the stride of Kinz Funky Monkey and The Green Monkey, but that's just me, hopeless at that sort of thing (or punting in general). But very nice post.

The Ocho,
There are many factors to stride, but here's some pointers.

The front legs should be reaching from the shoulder and should be long in stride.
The lead should come from the shoulder and not from the knees.
The knees should only bend to accomodate the lead from the shoulder, they should not be where the stride comes from.

The hind legs should almost fill the spaces the front legs leave behind, they should not drag or hit the ground just underneath the belly.

The gait should be fluid in action and the best way to see this is at a slow lope or canter, watching the head and neck action can be a good indicator.

The shoulders should be at a 45 degree angle or more to the neck and you should be able to see a triangle from the start of the neck to the withers, down the shoulder and back up to the neck.

An indication of heart size is the chest cavity.
From the top of the withers straight down to the elbow should be very deep.
The deeper the better, providing all other factors are in proportion.

I'm at a loss to see how some of these buyers assess a horse in the short time in the parade ring at the sales. It takes me a good 20 minutes to fully assess a horse and certainly would need to be right up close. Perhaps the big spenders get private viewing time ;)

10 miniutes on overall conformation and 10 minutes hands on.

The hind legs should also be wider than the front legs.
Thinkk of how a cheetah runs, with it's rear legs either side of the front legs, this is how it gets it's speed, by the spring and leverage action, only we don't want a horse to overreach.

Horses that actually overreach and clip their own front heels do not have ideal conformation. The hind legs should be filling the spaces left by the front legs, only wider, not the same spaces.

This information does not only apply to buying and breeding, it can be a huge guide to a horse's potential, especially with regard to lightly raced horses, and first starters.

[Chrome Prince]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ecPdElGaug4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Watch this video, it points to some very important differences.

Pause the video at Conformation Shot #1....
Romi the first horse, is too stocky.
He has a beautiful big depth of chest cavity and huge chest muscles, but his leg aren't long enough in proportion for his body.
He has a lovely back, but his hind muscles are lacking on his hips.
It seems he is underdeveloped at the rear for his strong muscular front.
Therefore he is going to be short striding.
The angle of his shoulder is fine, but there should be more definition.

Play video...

You'll notice his hind legs never go anywhere near filling the spots his front legs leave. He leads with his front knees and not with his shoulder, because although he has a good shoulder and chest, his hind legs lack power and leverage.

Pause the video at Conformation Shot #1 again....
Deco has good conformation.
His head is shorter.
His neck has perfect proportion and the angle is great.
He has good shoulder muscle and his hip muscles are in proportion (not lacking).
The chest cavity is not as deep as Romi, but he has plenty of muscle evenly distributed.

Play video...

He has a beautifully smooth gait and when he canters into the jump, his legs stretch from the shoulder and his hind legs stretch to almost fill the spaces the front legs left behind. He is not perfect, but he is a good example.
He has a very good reach on jumping and his head does not have to jerk to maintain balance on landing. He is a well conformed, well balanced horse.

Pause the video at Conformation Shot #2

Hans is similar to the first horse Romi, only better around the rear hip area.
However, poor Hans is unbalanced. His head is a little too long. His chest cavity is very good and deep, but again his withers are too high, and this is the pivot point or centre of gravity for a horse. There's no way he is going to be able to maintain a fluid gate and will find it hard at a canter or gallop being unbalanced. He also has a weak back, it slopes down from his rump to his withers at a bad angle. although he is better in the hind quarters and hips than Romi, he is still not evenly distributed in muscle development.
This along with his head size and withers and back problem means he is going to have to throw his head to maintain balance when jumping.

Play video and pause at each still shot.

You'll notice he has a very short stride and throws his head on landing to maintain balance.

Still shot no. 1
This is Romi the first horse.
His knees are up to his cheeks and his hind legs are way behind him.
He is not jumping from the hind legs, he is springing off them and reaching with his front legs.

Still shot no. 2
This is Deco the second horse.
Look at the angle of the hind legs, he is using a lot of power from the hind legs, they are not dragging behind, they are almost underneath him. His front knees are not up near his cheeks, he is tucking his front legs under himself and stretching out nicely with his neck.

Still shot no. 3
This is unbalanced Hans
Look at the angle of the hind legs, he is using a lot of power from the hind legs, they are not dragging behind, they are almost underneath him. His front knees are not up near his cheeks, but he is not tucking his front legs under himself and he is stretching upwards with his head and neck. He seems to be using ALL his rear and none of his front. What you don't see are the next few frames where he lands all unbalanced and throws his head to maintain balance.

Deco is 8/10 for mine and stands the best chance of becoming a good racehorse, IF he has the speed.

[Chrome Prince]

Geelong
Race 2 - Grc Function/Event Centre Mdn - 1900m
Glenaroua
Nadeem x Toccare (GB) (Machiavellian (USA) )
Purchased for $8,000
Grandsire Redoute's Choice
Great Grandsire Danehill
Great Great Grandsire on Dam side Canny Lad

BARGAIN!

Port Macquarie
Race 3 - Hans Smallgoods Mdn Plate - 1500m
Lopresti
Ad Valorem (USA) x Glycks (Langfuhr (CAN) )
Passed In $ 4,000 / Reserve $ 5,000
Sire side: Danzig, Northern Dancer
Dam side: Danzig, Northern Dancer

BARGAIN

Townsville
Race 4 - Cup Calcutta Tickets Hcp - 1000m
He's A Ladies Man
All Bar One x Favorite Starlet (Favorite Trick (USA) )
Purchased for $5,000
On the Sire side Stormcat, Stormbird lineage
On the Dam side Marauding, Sir Tristram.

BARGAIN!

These horses, although mainly winning maidens, beat home some horses costing six figures.
You never know what genes will filter through as long as the structure is in place. All horses had links to leading sires, without being sired by leading sires.
This is where the value is, considering some six and seven figure horses either never make it to the track or never win a race.

[jose]

Top stuff CP.

[Rinconpaul]

Excellent stuff CP, when's the book coming out, serious??
RP

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks for the feedback gents, much appreciated.

I had occasion to visit the stables of Moody, Smerdon and Vasil at Caulfield a couple of years ago.
They were all raving on about this horse Altius which was the best breed horse in the stable and a small fortune had been outlayed on him.
I don't think he was ever offered for sale, bet they wish they had now.

They were talking about how many millions of dollars he was worth on breeding alone.
Being the inquisitive type, I went straight home and looked him up, indeed in the stable he looked a nice type, but didn't strike me to have ideal conformation, nor be the best looking horse in the stable.

Yes, he was a Redoute's Choice x Circles Of Gold horse.
He had Danehill and Canny Lad on his Sire line.
He also had Marscay and Zamaazan on the Dam line.

Straight off the bat, I could see that it was Redoute's Choice that was getting them over excited. They were saying this was the Group 1 horse for the spring!

Well, it didn't pan out too well. He proved a handy type, but not a Group 1 horse. Couldn't win a Group 3, couldn't win a Listed (placed 2nd), won an Open and a BM80 in the city.

Vasil got rid of him and he was transferred to Chris Waller and ended his racing career in Sydney earning a total of $172,438.

Here's the interesting part, have they gelded him?
Surely not.
Is he injured?
What happened to him?

He isn't listed anywhere as a Sire and Arrowfield have no news about him at all.
It all remains a very expensive mystery and the horse never won a Stakes race.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2011/07/30/1226104/909316-altius.jpg

[Lord Greystoke]

Excellent stuff CP, when's the book coming out, serious??
RPHow do you mean RP?

The Chrome Prince is a living book, every post another page.

In a word..
sage

/sāj/
Noun


An aromatic plant (Salvia officinalis) of the mint family, with grayish-green leaves that are used as a culinary herb, native to...
A profoundly wise man.

Some say he toys with No. 1. in his spare time but it's no. 2, for mine

Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks again, I really do appreciate all comments, as it's something that interests me greatly from all aspects of racing, from breeding to training to punting.

[Chrome Prince]

This is why stride is more important than breeding.
When you have the two combined, you have a truly class horse.
Look at Photon Willie.
He's not silly either, he knows exactly where to find his cosy warm stable and a good feed :D

http://www.racingnetwork.com.au/FormandResults/RaceReplaySearch/tabid/108/Default.aspx?videoid=1016152#2013-07-17:

If they train him to keep his mind on the job and possibly put on ************s, this will be one horse who is probably going to earn them the enormous purchase price.
There are just so many with good breeding that have no good stride length at all, that it makes it a bit of a raffle.

[Lord Greystoke]

Hi Chrome.

Appreciate that your wisdom comes from years of watching, experience(genetics?) but I mistakenly assumed that the art of watching horses and knowing what to look for was a kind of black magic, invisible clues etc etc. Until now, that is.. will take practice of course but I think it might be hard to look at a horse from here without noticing some of the the various features you have pointed out. Particularly the movement of the legs, how this differs bt front and back.

Now, just got to get vision of the horses parading up on a screen here without it costing me an arm and leg. Any ideas are welcome!

Quality posting, considerable value plus generosity and not a whiff of ego or arrogance or 'hype' to go with it. I find that the message 'goes in' a lot quicker with this mix i.e. the shields come down and a clean exchange of information occurs.

So I thank for that and I look fwd to anything else you would like to share in this respect.


Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

Cheers mate.
If a whiff of any sort of ego does come through inadvertently, it is only because I'm so passionate about the information handed down to me and that I've learnt, works and stands the test of time.
My grandfather didn't have the internet, he picked it all up himself.
He was self taught and made his own mistakes.
However, a few racing people and friends have passed away in the last few years, and some very knowledgable one's took everything they knew with them.
I feel that's a sad waste.
The time to share is now, it's too late later.
I'm not giving anyone anything that will make them a millionaire, just helping understand some things the basic punter usually overlooks.

I've only touched on the topics lightly, and felt I might be boring people, so the feedback you guys give, inspires me to share more and go a bit more indepth.

A leading bloodstock agent in England once said to me:
A bad walker is a bad buy regardless of breeding.
A good walker is a potential buy.
A good walker with breeding is a definite buy.

However, he also said some good walkers don't have speed.
They are so good, they are slow, they lope along.

The only thing I disagreed with this professional about was Sire dominance.
He said look for progeny who look like their Sire.
That means the Sire is stamping his mark on his offspring.

This guy is a leading bloodstock agent, not just any old bloke and pays some of the biggest money in the UK for horses, so he was somewhat surprised I'd not agree with him.
Until I explained about my findings of Sires passing on looks versus, speed, stamina, soundness, and the degree of influence from the grand sires and dams. And the mixing of sprinters and stayers does not make a good middle distance horse, it dillutes the gene.
It was only when I gave him clear examples, that he had an enlightened look on his face.

If we take for example Rory's Jester:

http://www.virtualformguide.com/photos/stallions/rorysjester.jpg

Here's his successful son Racer's Edge:
http://chatswoodstud.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Racers-Edge.jpg

He inherited the build and conformation and speed.
He did not inherit the colour, nor the blaze.

Here is Happy Giggle, Rory's other son:
http://www.virtualformguide.com/photos/stallions/happygiggle.jpg

Racer's Edge career prizemoney: $938,390
Happy Giggle career prizemoney: $274,250

On looks, one would immediately say Happy Giggle is the image of his father, which he is.
But Racer's Edge is the image of his father in a different way, conformation and speed.

Racer's Edge has passed on his genes and those of his father to his progeny.
Happy Giggle has struggled.

And here's the kicker, Happy Giggle servivce fee is $4,400.
Racer's Edge service fee is $3,300.

I really struggle to understand this, but that right there is another bargain.

[Chrome Prince]

It's harder and harder to find an edge, if you do the extra legwork that most punters don't do, you have an edge.
If you could pick the right horses to follow and discard the overbet and overhyped one's, you can save losing bets, and have an edge.

Most leading stables will have pictures of their horses on their websites and you can try google for the other one's.
You can get Youtube videos and TVN videos and convert them to slow motion and watch the horse in action.
We have access to pedigree information.
We have access to form (obviously).
We have access to market odds and track odds movements.
We can watch as they load the horses and parade the horses.
We can get steward's reports.

Here's a very basic checklist:
Look for well bred horses.
Don't limit yourself to Sire and Dam, some of the best horses have poor Dam performances but strong bloodlines from the Dam.
Look at the head, the muscles, the legs, the angle of the shoulder, which horses in his pedigree does he most resemble in conformation.
In fact, at times, I have converted images to black and white, and that assists with not getting distracted by colour and markings etc.
Is the horse a mix of sprinter, miler, distance, or is he (she) getting the best genes suited to bring out outstanding performances on both sides that highlight the distance gene.
Has the horse won a good race, or is he always promising to do something.
Watching video replays, does the horse let down and either kick away, or make late ground to win, or does he plod or grind and just get there.
Mid race moves excepted.

Very good black type horses ALL have a turn of foot, they let down and dominate. They also very rarely run "a shocker", they are consistently in the first four and bounce back to win.
They also step up in grade with ease, they don't generally fail and keep knocking on the door and then win.
Average to good horses do that.

Avoid like the plague horses talked up by trainers and jockeys.
Most trainers will downplay their good prospects to the media for obvious reasons.

Avoid horses that play up in the barriers or are hard to load.
A scared horse will use all it's nervous energy and not run to it's full potential.
It's an indicator of the horse's psyche.
You can glean a lot of information from steward's reports online.

[Chrome Prince]

Here's a wonderful video showing the stride of the great Oracle.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zQDAUv6d_KY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Notice how he fills the spaces left by his front legs with his hind legs.
How he leads with his shoulder and simply bends his knees.
He had a lovely long stride.

Another of Frankel.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/L7MChh1F4nI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The ground he covers with every stride is amazing, how easily he did it.
Again the hind legs fill the spots left by the front legs, he leads from the shoulder and bends from the knees.

A lot of horses don't make a lot of ground wih each stride, so it taxes them physically. You see their heads bobbing in a race madly up and down, but they're not making much ground for the effort. (in the straight).

[Chrome Prince]

http://www.stridemaster.com/

Well it seems I'm not the only one who places massive importance on stride length combined with speed. The above device sends stride information to a trainer's mobile phone.
I am in no way affiliated with the product, but thought it was a relevant product to this thread.

Unfortunately I have no access to the prroduct and more unfortunately no access to the horse carrying it :(

However, I've been manually doing some work in the background on stride length, via tedious and laborious video analysis.

I will post my selections in this thread as they come to hand.

[NitroPunter]

These information threads are fantastic. Thank you CP for the time and effort put into them. Linking the videos is so helpful to understand the thoughts!

Cheers
Nitro

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks for the feedback Nitro.
Certainly it isn't infallible, but it certainly helps to weed out the donkeys.
If a horse has a poor stride, it's a waste of time from a punting or racing perspective, owners would be better off breeding the horse and hoping the sire, grand sire lines throw a good strider. As I was going through a lot of old form and horse history, I was actually amazed at the number of slow horses persued with, they seem to pour good money after bad. If a horse doesn't show ability with the first three or four starts, really it's never going to be a top horse. Owners can only make money from top horses, whereas trainers make money from owners ;)

I have watched a lot of videos of syndicated horses for sale, and there are a lot of poor striders with good breeding. Needless to say, when I looked up the form later, NONE of them had ever made it into a first four placing at tracks like Echuca and Seymour, let alone win a race.
I can't name the horses due to possible legal action, but there are a lot of them for sale as syndicate shares etc.

I also poured over hours and hours of old Magic Millions sales video.
I marked out possible horses from breeding and stride, some became top liners. Of the horses I marked as poor conformation or stride, there were some winners there, but they were all country winners, no city winners and no black type winners. The percentage of actual winners from poor horses was only a very small percentage, some never made it to the track, and a few are on sale on Gumtree as hobby horses!

[Chrome Prince]

Still working on the strider selections, so am going to miss today unfortunately.
It's a much bigger task than I anticipated, but it has to be accurate or it's a waste of time.

So to ease everyone's sighs of disappointment :D , here is an example of an excellent strider in trackwork. There is also a nice slow motion of it, to look at the nice stride and how he stretches out.

http://youtu.be/blMhuC8l0Mo?t=2m35s

However, he stretches and strides nicely, but he is slow :(
Although the sand was dead and heavy, he ran home his last 600m in 39.75 (approx). And that was after having a couple of cuts with the whip.
The trainer had a really good feeling about this horse, but I could tell although he was a nice horse with good conformation, he just doesn't have the motor to be a top class racehorse.

His name is Trululu, so I looked up his form.
He won a maiden claiming race in the country and ran second in a claiming race in the country. He also ran a lot of shockers and never won more than one race, and never made it to the city. In fact, he was retired at the end of 2011, which was his first and last race season.

[Chrome Prince]

Time to put it on the line!

These are horses I've spotted who have good strides and appear to show some ability. These are horses I've earmarked that might step up in grade and may pay to follow. I don't know whether this will be profitable or not, but I'm going to follow them in a stable system, win, lose or break down.
It doesn't matter the time they ran, nor the sectionals, because good horses don't have to run time to win, they just do it with dominance and very often the jockey eases them down. With notable exceptions of Northerly, Octagonal, Kingston Town and others, most good horses do not have to have their ears scrubbed off to win, they make a move at one point in the race which wins them the race. Lonhro was an example, he'd whip around the field and usually take control, that was his trademark. Black Caviar had the race shot to pieces by putting herself in a winning position and then cruising home.

Photon Willie
Great stride and speed but very green.
Nearly threw a race away by wanting to go back to the stable a week ago.
On Friday they ran him in a barrier trial at Warwick Farm and he was ridden quietly and then pushed to the line without incident.
Pay to follow.

Octavia
Great stride and won well Saturday.

[Chrome Prince]

Just found out that Altius was injured and resumes at Rosehill in race 3.
99 weeks out with injury.
There has been no official trial for this horse.

[Chrome Prince]

Altius was unplaced.
However, he was chopped out at a crucial point and would have run a place.
But the jockey was throwing everything at him, and he was never going to actually win.

[Chrome Prince]

Adding to the great strider stable, so far I have Photon Willie and Octavia.
Gregers
Henwood

[NitroPunter]

Photon Willie
SR 5 # 5 today

Henwood R6 Flemington (10 August 2013)

[Chrome Prince]

Photon Willie no good today, but he still showed a good stride and very hard to come from the back at Canterbury in a 1200m race.
Won't sack him on that effort, still following.
Might get generous odds next start!

[Tayjack]

Henwood[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more, the way this horse picked them up at the valley over 1200 was decent, albeit a fairly average field, however he did have to make up a fair bit of ground and looked to be a decent strider.

[Chrome Prince]

Adding to the great strider stable, so far I have
Photon Willie
Octavia
Gregers
Henwood

Adding Montgomery from the hurdle at Sandown and Recycle Prince which showed enormous length of stride to run over the top of them and win hands and heels.

I'm going to record punting profit/loss and prizemoney won.
Whether or not I can make a profit punting on them remains to be seen, but I do think that these horses are worth cyber "claiming" for prizemoney.

[darkydog2002]

Hope your not putting money on them Chrome.

[Chrome Prince]

Of course I am darky.

Back to Altius who I have a poor opinion of stride wise.
The upside of this non performer, is that he will be extraordinary value for anyone wanting to send a mare to him.
His lack of champion status, will discount his sire fees.
I have a feeling on breeding, he won't be cheap, but certainly reasonable value.

Looking into his lineage, he has truly blue blood.
Redoute's Choice
Danehill
Marscay
Zamazaan
Biscay
Danzig
Northern Dancer
Canny Lad
Star Kingdom
Bletchingly
Sir Ivor (Sire of Sir Tristram)

Altius simply lacks the stride, sending a well bred mare to him, could certainly result in a champion.

[Chrome Prince]

Kinz Funky Monkey goes around in the DaisyCutter Handicap at Del Mar USA on Saturday.
It's stepping up in grade to a stakes race.
Will be watching with interest and will have an interest eachway.

[Lord Greystoke]

BETFAIR or Willy Hilly?

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Betfair SP LG, worth a shot at the probable odds and considering the stride and breeding and the fact that Kinz won last two starts.
Here's Kinz in action:

http://youtu.be/ttgiauT5gpk

The Green Monkey had what is called a "rotary gallop", which produces short bursts of speed, but is ineffective as distances get longer. This would explain his blistering one furlong time and his subsequent failure as a racehorse.
Here he is at a breeze up prior to sale:

http://youtu.be/SrzIIeHU2ik

He had some problems with injury such as a gluteal muscle tear as a 2yo, but his stride is what bothered me, seems I wasn't alone....

Analysis of the extreme racing gait of an elite Thoroughbred is perhaps the area where the information provided by high-speed kinetics most seems to throw open a door to the previously unseen and unknown.

Jeff Seder of EQB Agents and Consultants in West Grove, Pennsylvania, began with a business and filmmaking background. He applied what he knew to getting good film of racehorses. He also began collecting data on elite equine athletes by attending Thoroughbred sales.

"Prior databases [mostly academic] included average athletes, and the information did not exist to describe the elite horse," Seder said. "So we became obsessive-compulsive about getting good data." Experts like Clayton agree.

"Mr. Seder has amassed a wealth of data and has been generous in providing that information for study," she said. Seder has published much of his data in a series of articles that evaluates the various detailed phases of gait in racing Thoroughbreds. Perhaps more controversially, he also wrote an article that relates racing performance to foreleg flight patterns among 900 unraced two-year-olds offered at major sales in the United States. Seder listed a group of 73 horses with "good" motion and a group of 77 horses with "bad" motion. The latter group showed extraneous foreleg motion, including hyper-rotation of the cannon bone (hoof hitting an elbow in extreme cases); winging, paddling, or wobbling; and other deviations from straight and correct motion.

"Good" movers were patterned more closely after the ideal. All horses compared were matched to have workouts of similar velocity.

The subsequent North American racing performances of these two groups were evaluated. Seder concluded what proponents of high-speed gait analysis had hoped for when the technology first began to be used. He wrote: "Extraneous foreleg motion was shown to be related to subsequent racing earnings and the level of competition attained. Horses with good foreleg motion (as defined and determined with high-speed film evaluation) earned more and had greater stakes-level success (83% higher earnings) than horses with bad foreleg motion."

Seder's data also has yielded information about high-leg-action horses and turf racing, about the lack of performance predictability when trying to use only velocity and length- of-stride measurements, and several other very technical facts about the vast differences and arrays of phases contained within the racing gait of the horse.

Seder pointed out that The Green Monkey, a Forestry colt recently purchased for $16-million at the Fasig-Tipton Calder sale of selected two-year-olds in training, had a fabulous 9.8-second workout, but high-speed film revealed that the entire work was done at a rotary gallop, a very quick gait that can produce fast times but costs more energy. In Seder's opinion, such a gait is unlikely to be maintained for longer distances. High-speed analysis of that horse's motion leaves questions in Seder's mind and puts tremendous, maybe excessive, expectations on the horse. "Really good horses have a number of ways to run fast," Seder said. "And if they are 'correct' in their motion, they will be able to generate more power and speed without tiring out or breaking down."

Seder did not set out to ruin the careers of those horses that were deemed to have bad motion in his study, and in a bit of kill-the-messenger mentality, he said he has sometimes not been well received within the racing industry.

"Roughly 80% of horses bred for the track will have some sort of problem and never make it to an elite status," Seder said. "The history of science is that innovation is met with skepticism. I'm just taking science and playing probabilities, looking for those horses that, based on our data of gait and motion analysis, have a higher chance of making it."

Whether you use the latest in cameras, high-speed analysis, and data evaluation, or you hang near the rail to find a way of going that pleases your eye, everyone is looking for the same thing--a horse that has a good chance to make it.

*Article courtesy of Elite Thoroughbreds.

[Chrome Prince]

One would notice the difference between the two strides.
"Kinz" has a long stride, and leads from the shoulder stretching out the forelegs and springing off the hindlegs.
Whereas "Green" had a short paddling stride. It would have taken twice as much energy to cover the same ground, and at a slower speed!
He lifted his front legs like a trotter rather than stretching out from the shoulder and using his front legs to continue the motion, much like mentioned in the above article as rotary action.

Is this why they breezed him over merely one furlong in almost record breaking time? Horses with this action can be fast, super fast, but simply cannot maintain it. Very similar to a racing quarter horse.

[Chrome Prince]

Henwood races tomorrow in Race 6 Flemington.
Looks to be favourite.

[Chrome Prince]

Kinz Funky Monkey ran 3rd at Del Mar.
Backed it eachway on the tote, as Betfair weren't covering the race.
Was a big step up in grade to a Stakes race against older horses, so pretty satisfied with the placing.
Will put up the video, as it comes to hand.

[Chrome Prince]

Henwood ran second today.
Still happy with his action and indeed the run.

So far the "stable" has had two starts for one second placing and earned $18,000 in prizemoney.
Betting action is minus 2 units.
Both Henwood and Photon Willie are showing the same length of stride and action still, so I think there's more to come.

Adding a couple more to the stable from today:
Bonne Nuit
Rain Affair

Stable of striders:
Bonne Nuit
Gregers
Henwood
Montgomery
Octavia
Photon Willie
Rain Affair
Recycle Prince

[Chrome Prince]

Those who are interested in stride and gait should have a gander at the video on this site:


http://www.eqb.com/images/eqb.com/default1.aspx?contentname=Gait%20Analysis#gamovie


It explains and demonstrates the important points to look for.

[Chrome Prince]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OLTtTzc2HFI

Here we go Kinz Funky Monkey.
A wonderful performance to get up for third after being chopped out early and hampered at the top of the stretch. You might see her length of stride over the final 200m. She is in the purple or lilac, number 3.
She is a leader or onpacer, to be chopped out that badly early over 5 furlongs, ridden upside down and still run on for third, was amazing.

This is why some non performing very expensive horses with good breeding, are very inexpensive Sires. Great value.

[Chrome Prince]

The trainers of Gregers (David Hayes) and Recycle Prince (Troy Portelli) must have high opinions of these horses as well, they have been nominated for Group races in October, long before their last wins. Trainer mechanics is something that needs to be looked at a bit more by me. ;)

[Lord Greystoke]

The trainers of Gregers (David Hayes) and Recycle Prince (Troy Portelli) must have high opinions of these horses as well, they have been nominated for Group races in October, long before their last wins. Trainer mechanics is something that needs to be looked at a bit more by me. ;)Interesting that you say this, CP. Have just signed up for a 'stable newsletter' to get closer to one of my favorite trainers.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Octavia nominated for R7 at Caulfield Saturday.
Photon Willie nominated for R5 Rosehill Saturday.

[Chrome Prince]

"Roughly 80% of horses bred for the track will have some sort of problem and never make it to an elite status," Seder said. "The history of science is that innovation is met with skepticism. I'm just taking science and playing probabilities, looking for those horses that, based on our data of gait and motion analysis, have a higher chance of making it."

Seder is truely a leader in his field, and his opinions and conclusions have been proven correct countless times. To put it plainly, it's an extremely expensive excercise to race a horse and the chances of success are odds of 4/1, which means that 80% of the time, owners are shelling out big money for no return.

Many good horses are not obvious performers by breeding, some of the cheapest horses have become champions. When owners and trainers are paying outrageous sums of money for well bred but untried yearlings and 2yo's, it can only be detrimental to the industry as a whole, because many owners disappear burnt.

My personal opinion is that breeding should be the last consideration!
Controversial I know, but one would be better off looking at horse conformation, gait, stride, and then look at the breeding.

Here's a picture of my grandfather in 1930 just before going to the races for a win at The Curragh.

[Lord Greystoke]

Here's a picture of my grandfather in 1930 just before going to the races for a win at The Curragh.Good Lord.. there is some serious pedigree-bloodline in that portrait my son err friend!

If this fine fellow didn't pen something by way of memoirs, you must have something of the sort in you CP? A bridge across several generations, perhaps??

Cheers LG

PS would make for better reading than tales of Tommy / Ronnie etc?

[Chrome Prince]

There are some really wicked stories LG, many of them would not be believed, just like I rarely tell the story of my life anymore.
However, on the subject of breeding....

My father owned and rode horses bareback.
My fraternal grandfather owned and trained horses.
He also trained greyhounds and was so successful, someone snuck into the barn and poisoned all of them!
He won a huge purse one day picking every winner for the card on looks.
He bought a castle called Clarina Castle with his fortune (demolished in the 1960's).
My fraternal uncle volunteered with riding for the disabled in Ireland in retirement.

And then there's me....The Green Monkey :eek:

[Chrome Prince]

Here's the castle he bought:

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/img/orig/1426.jpg

I should add, this is only for interest sake, I'm only sharing something that might interest some people, as it's quite a story all up.
It's not about boasting :(

[Lord Greystoke]

It's impressive Chrome, as is the bounty of life stories I see you have inherited. Would make for a decent pint session I reckon (Guinness with you I am guessing)

Next time you elect to trundle down to headquarters let me know - will get the black stuff in at the local or whatever you talk best with!

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Off topic, but I don't like Guiness at all, my poor old Dad was horrified.
Stouts are far too "thick" for my tastes.
And whiskey can't be tolerated by me, there was an incident when I turned 21 and I poisoned myself on whiskey. To this day, 30 years later, even the smell of it makes me ill.
I am an ale and cider bloke these days, although contrary to my breeding, don't drink that often!

Yep, The Green Monkey :p

[Chrome Prince]

Took a walk around Caulfield racecourse today in wild and blustery conditions.
The track looks in perfect order for Saturday.
Was a great joy when I walked past Peter Moody's and Ross MacDonald's stables and they were taking a few horses out for an afternoon excercise.
Moody has quite some complex now ;)

Pity I couldn't recognise the horses by name, as there was a fairly young grey horse that caught my eye immediately.

[Chrome Prince]

Altius is nominated for two races at Rosehill on Saturday.
The worse he goes, the better value he'll be to send a mare to.
I do hope he can win for his owners, must be extremely disappointing for them.
In my humble opinion, i'd be putting him over jumps in training, to try and get him to learn to stretch out more, but then again they probably can't risk further injury.

[Chrome Prince]

Adding Martinvast to the stable after today's performance.

Altius running in race 5 Rosehill Saturday.

Octavia running in race 8 Caulfield Saturday.
Photon Willie running in race 4 Rosehill Saturday.

[Chrome Prince]

Update from Chris Waller:
Photon Willie
"1500 for him is going to be a test. He doesn't do a lot to help himself yet he's got all the ability in the world, so we've seen what he can do, first up this preparation he ran an eyecatching race and second up, it was a very slowly run race on a day you couldn't make up ground. He's ready to run over 1500 now.
If he puts his mind on the job. he'll blow this field away, but it's a big if."

Altius
"He can win too. Bit short (1200m). He's going good and he was a bit keen in that first up run as well."

The confidence between the two can be seen reading between the lines.

Info courtesy Chris Waller

[Tayjack]

Mmmmm- I agree here on photon willy, looking at his last couple , looks like he needs galloping room, hopefully the jock can get him in the running line and then peels before anything behind comes around, if the horse is right and the tempo right he could probably travel 3 deep the trip and win. Surely Waller wouldn't place him here if he didn't think he could get the trip. I have him on top and hope he runs to potential.

Best - TJ

[Chrome Prince]

Altius’ name comes from the Olympic motto ‘citius, altius, fortius – which in Latin translates to faster, higher, stronger.

[Chrome Prince]

Yes, I think looking at videos of Willie, he can make up a tremendous amount of ground due to his stride, but he's pretty green in running, e's at Rosehill and he runs to his stable in the straight there. That would be my major concern tomorrow.

Altius can win Saturday, but he's not consistent enough.
Because of his stride he can't sustain speed because he expends too much energy. He has talent, but is lower grade talent. I doubt he'll ever win more than one black type race. If eerything goes his way and he gets a split at the right time, he'll poke his nose through, but he doesn't have a good stride at all.
He also had throat surgery and has recovered from that to get his breathing right, but I think they need to improve his stride.
Mostly they have it or they don't, but one can improve it a bit with patient training.

[Tayjack]

Agree re PW, Altius has always promised, and a wonderfully bred horse. Velrosso is weighted to win this event, but altius has that 2nd up form that is almost close enough to ridiculous not to have something on him. Probably wont get a better chance with Nash up.

Best TJ

[Chrome Prince]

They actually switched races to engage Nash, because the owners have a long association with Nash.

[Chrome Prince]

Photon Willie got the chocolates @ $4.80 BFSP (net)
At the 200m mark he really showed his stride briefly, but then shortened stride trying to eyeball his stable and nearly turned it up at the 50m mark.
I think a set of blinkers is in order.

Altius disappointed again, as I expected.
You could see his ability in the run, but his stride is too short with very limited burst of speed that can't be maintained.

Well done Tayjack on your call on Velrosso!

Octavia just held on to win @ $3.12 BFSP (Net)

So far the "stable" has had four starts for two winners, one second placing and earned $156,750 in prizemoney.
Betting action is plus 3.92 units.

[Chrome Prince]

Adding to the Stable of striders:
Bonne Nuit
Gregers
Henwood
Honorius*
Montgomery
Octavia
Pakal*
Photon Willie
Puissance De Lune*
Rain Affair
Recycle Prince

The stable has 11 horses in work, and will add to it until the stable is full of 20 striders to follow.

[Tayjack]

Nice bunch you have added chrome, watching some replays this morning, couldn't disagree with any of those.

Well, photon willie, right you are(and were) when, he nearly lost the plot inside the 100, and when the jock let him slide up at the 400 he was bolting, and as you say that stride came into play into the home straight, looked to me as though he was doing it easily. Watching it a few times again, im not sure that the horse really even died on its run, it was just that he switched off and wanted to head for his stable that probably decreased the winning margin.

Yep blinkers next time.

Wasnt too sure what to make of altius, not one of nash's best?? Probaby not, but the winner did it comfortably in the end, and as stated, just doesn't look like he can or would be up to black type.

Best tj

[Chrome Prince]

I thought that also about PW, Tayjack.

Windsucking or Cribbing.

Windsucking or Cribbing is when a horse bears down on a fence post or in his stable with his front teeth, tenses his muscles and draws in huge gulps of air.
This is usually accompanied by licking the post or rail and can vary from moderate to constantly doing it.
This habit is particularly rife in racehorses which are stabled most of the time.
Trainers tend to put on a restrictive collar which limits the airway, but this is not addressing the root of the problem nor the causes.

This is a terrible thing for horses, it causes their teeth to wear down prematurely, usually resulting in their inability to chew at all and they have to be put down. It also causes ulcers in their stomach and bouts of colic.
Quite a few horses have to be put down after more than one bout of colic.

Most trainers and horse owners don't know the reason for windsucking and simply put a collar on the horse, which temporarily stops it. It causes a lot of anxiety for the horse and is very difficult to address.

There has been much debate over the reasons for windsucking, but it is never learned behaviour from other horses, nor boredom as many speculate.
In very mild cases, the horse merely licks or chews on the lead rope or reins when it can.

Windsucking can be cured!

The reasons that horses start to windsuck are:
a) the horse is in pain and windsucking helps.
b) the horse is vitamin deficient.

The reason that horses continue windsucking when not vitamin deficient nor in pain, is that endorphens are released when they do it, so it becomes a habit that is very hard to break.

These are the steps to curing windsucking.

Take the horse's temperature and make sure it is not elevated.
Do a thorough blood test for vitamin deficiency.
(I suspect a lot of it is to do with lack of vitamin D and required salt levels)
Take the horse's resting heart rate and respiration rates.
Take the horse outside in the sun without a blanket or rug and let it graze for half an hour. (Note if there are flies concentrated in one place only on the horse, flies are attracted to inflammation and infection).
Check the horse's gait, if it is choppy or favours one side or one leg.
Check the eyes are not dull or milky.
Look at the coat to see if it's a bit dull.
Have a horse osteopath check the horse for joint or muscle pain.

Change the horse's feeding frequency, instead of feeding two or three meals a day, make the servings smaller and more frequent.
(horses are grazing animals that produce acid in their stomach, when there is no frequent food, this can lead to stomach ulcers).

When all the above has thoroughly been ruled out, then it is a habit, and addiction, that needs to be addressed by natural horsemanship techniques.

From a breeding and training perspective, windsuckers have a very poor future. They are expensive to own and usually accompany very high vet bills.
They also damage property and can be hard to handle if wearing a collar (they are very anxious).

From a punting perspective, windsuckers are horrible investments, they rarely win, because they either have stomach ulcers, lack vitamins, or are in hidden pain.

One should particularly look on track or in the gear change list for these items:

Cross over noseband (stops the horse opening it's mouth)
Tail chain (stops the horse drawing air in through it's rear)
Other more obvious gear changes, but very rare are:
Muzzle
Windsucking device.

If on track, go around the stalls and check out the horses wearing windsucking collars.

[Chrome Prince]

I should have actually qualified my statement about crossover nosebands, they are also used for horses that over race with their mouths wide open. So looking at crossover nosebands alone won't tell you it's a windsucker, but it's an indicator to dig deeper.

Why they don't put blinkers on Photon Willy is beyond me.
It isn't like they are trying to get better odds next time out.
Even a shadow roll would make him concentrate on where he's going.
Perhaps there will be some gear change next start, or I'll be at a complete loss.

[Rinconpaul]

I'll be at a complete loss.
I was at a complete loss on Saturday too Chrome, Race 7 Rosehill, Sadler's Wish. Now last campaign the horse had 5 straight wins in a row at min distance of 1900m. This time round they put it in a 1300m & 1400m and, do they wonder why it came 13th & 14th?? Who knows, it's not rocket science, it stood out like the proverbial, so I Layed it for a bundle to lose, cheering!, but why do they do this??

RP

[Chrome Prince]

Often they are non triers, getting the horse race fit and then, whammo at good odds, so might be worth blackbooking Sadlers Wish for the next start at the right distance.

[Tayjack]

Why they don't put blinkers on Photon Willy is beyond me.
It isn't like they are trying to get better odds next time out.
Even a shadow roll would make him concentrate on where he's going.
Perhaps there will be some gear change next start, or I'll be at a complete loss.
Not wrong!!

Interesting abut the windsucking(i will be delving deeper). But surely a leading stable has to be on the ball about this, or any stable for that matter.

[Chrome Prince]

You'd think so TJ, but it's more common than one would think.
For example, most stables have at least one or two windsuckers in there.
At Caulfield I counted five windsuckers in the stables.
My nephew is working with racehorses in the UK, and he told me it's a real problem for the trainers over there.
They just whack a collar on the poor horses, and that's about it!

[Lord Greystoke]

Evening Chrome.

Not wanting to sidetrack this thread mate but had a quick question for you; Are you able to suggest the best/easiest way to determine if a horse is naturally suited to being riden off the pace i.e. from the form guide?

Cheers LG

[jimbob]

nar see in person only imo https://imageshackau.com/sports/131/b/happy.gifhttps://imageshackau.com/sports/133/b/happy.gifhttps://imageshackau.com/sports/138/b/happy.gif
https://imageshackau.com/sports/123/b/happy.gif

[Chrome Prince]

LG, that's a difficult one for a couple of reasons, but firstly you need a formguide like The Sportsman or others that give previous in running positions, from there you can work out the "most likely" position.
However, it depends greatly on the barrier, and the pace.
A JB mentioned, it's easier to look at video replays to determine if the horse made ground from back in the field.
On or just off the pace has a much better record overall, with backmarkers and midfielders struggling to make back to back wins. (The strike rate is much lower).
When I did the speedmap excercise, I found many that got it thereabouts, but no speedmap was totally accurate, the accuracy rate was lifted by the horses with very obvious running style. I'm utilising video replays more each day than I ever did to note many things not indicated in the formguides.

[Lord Greystoke]

Thanks for your input mate- I guessed that there was no simple answer, but had to ask anyway to get your take. The 3 bits of data I can see from previous runs in the form guide that I thought might help were..

1. Average early speed
2. Inrunning position (a) settling (b) 800m (c) turn
3. Tempo of race e.g. Suited to front runners / back markers / no bias etc

Also - perhaps noted trainers who prefer to have their horses run off the pace (not sure how to tell or how feasible to find out!)

Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

Bonne Nuit - nominated Moonee Valley Saturday
Gregers - nominated Moonee Valley Saturday
Rain Affair - nominated Warwick Farm Saturday

[Chrome Prince]

On the subject of gear changes, here's an illustration.
Taking only those fancied in the market for Geelong and Cessnock today.

Cessnock R1
Hint Of Courage $2.15 fave, no gear changes, WON
Zippity Zou $6.50, Tongue Tie on, unplaced

Cessnock R2
Galring $4.00 fave, no gear changes, 3rd
Casino Queen $4.80, no gear changes, WON
Oxana $6.00, no gear changes, 2nd

Cessnock R3
Quietly Confident $2.05 fave, blinkers on, WON
Salterton $6.00, no gear changes, unplaced
Natural Grey $6.50, ************s on, unplaced

Cessnock R4
Sorel Point $2.15 fave, no gear changes, WON
Alimony $4.00, no gear changes, unplaced

Cessnock R5
Poulette $3.00 fave, no gear changes, unplaced
Lovethebeaches $4.60, no gear changes, unplaced
Leaders Road $7.00, no gear changes, WON

Cessnock R6
Sukraji $4.00 fave, no gear changes, WON
Believe It $4.80, no gear changes, unplaced
Madame Fly $7.00, no gear changes, unplaced
Excellent Style $7.00, no gear changes, 2nd
Miss Mackillop $7.00, no gear changes, unplaced

Cessnock R7
Non Stop Rock $2.10 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Mount Earnslaw $8.50, no gear changes, unplaced

Cessnock R8
Scarlatti $2.90 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Just For Keeps $4.50, no gear changes, unplaced
Dancing Paris $9.00, Blinkers FIRST time, ************s off FIRST time, unplaced*

Geelong R1
Ysabelle $2.10 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Promise To Rock $4.30 no gear changes, WON
Overnighter $6.00, no gear changes, unplaced

Geelong R2
St Chloe $1.95 fave, no gear changes, WON
Master Dee Art $4.20, no gear changes, unplaced
Kentucky Gem, $4.20 Blinkers FIRST time, 2nd*

Geelong R3
Critical Angel $1.90 fave, no gear changes, WON
Racing Nadine $5.50 ,no gear changes 2nd
Fine Diamond $5.00 , no gear changes, unplaced

Geelong R4
Jaja Malu $4.20 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Damysus $6.00, no gear changes, unplaced
Singersongwriter $6.00, no gear changes, unplaced
Biancrazy $6.60, Bllinkers off FIRST time, 3rd*

Geelong R5
Leonne $3.10 fave,tongue tie FIRST time, 3rd*
Street Crime $4.20, Cross Over Noseband FIRST TIME, Tongue Tie FIRST TIME unplaced***
Rogue Force $5.00, no gear changes, 2nd

Geelong R6
Good And Hot $3.10 fave, Blinkers off again, 2nd
Black Jack Boy $3.20, no gear changes, unplaced
Oamaru Princess $5.00, no gear changes, WON

Geelong R7
Chosen Son $5.00 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Roman Pleasure $5.50, no gear changes, unplaced
Armani Black $6.50, no gear changes, WON

Geelong R8
Dats A Lass $3.20 fave, no gear changes, unplaced
Dark Pearl $4.20, no gear changes, 2nd
Platinum Panther $7.00, no gear changes, unplaced
Grandmaster Dash $7.00, no gear changes, 3rd

Geelong R9
Beau Jez $3.30 fave, no gear changes, WON
Bated Breath $4.00, no gear changes, 3rd
Mount Zero $4.80, no gear changes, 2nd
Babur $6.50, no gear changes, unplaced


No gear changes:
44 horses in the market
11 winners
Return 43.05
Loss 0.95 @ tattsbet fixed odds
LOT 2.16%

Blinkers / ************s on:
2
1 winner
Return 2.05
Profit 0.05 @ tattsbet fixed odds
POT 2.50%

Blinkers / ************s first time on:
2
0 winners
LOT 100%

Tongue Tie on:
1
0 winners
LOT 100%

Tongue Tie on first time:
1
0 winners
LOT 100%

Crossover noseband on first time:
1
0 winners
LOT 100%

Favourites, no gear changes:
14 favourites
6 winners
Return 15.45
Profit 1.45 @ tattsbet fixed odds
POT 10.36%

Favourites Blinkers / ************s on:
1
1 winner
Return 2.05
Profit 1.05 @ tattsbet fixed odds
POT 105.00%

When it comes to favourites, I like to note blinkers / ************s first time, blinkers / ************s again, tongue tie again or no gear changes.

Hint Of Courage $2.15 fave, no gear changes, WON
Galring $4.00 fave, no gear changes, 3rd
Quietly Confident $2.05 fave, blinkers on, WON
Sorel Point $2.15 fave, no gear changes, WON
Poulette $3.00 fave, no gear changes, unplaced
Sukraji $4.00 fave, no gear changes, WON
Non Stop Rock $2.10 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Scarlatti $2.90 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Ysabelle $2.10 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
St Chloe $1.95 fave, no gear changes, WON
Critical Angel $1.90 fave, no gear changes, WON
Jaja Malu $4.20 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Chosen Son $5.00 fave, no gear changes, 2nd
Dats A Lass $3.20 fave, no gear changes, unplaced
Beau Jez $3.30 fave, no gear changes, WON

I think that's a fairly impressive statistic!

Then LAY all horses in the market, that are blinkers or ************s off / off again, tongue tie first time, crossover nose band first time,

Biancrazy $6.60, Bllinkers off FIRST time, 3rd*
Leonne $3.10 fave,tongue tie FIRST time, 3rd*
Street Crime $4.20, Cross Over Noseband FIRST TIME, Tongue Tie FIRST TIME unplaced***
Good And Hot $3.10 fave, Blinkers off again, 2nd

Reason being, horses racing first time in blinkers or ************s, can improve lengths, tongue tie first time is something the horse struggles to cope with unless he has raced before with it and learned how to breathe. Plenty of horses win with tongue ties on, once they are used to them.
Blinkers, ************s off, off again etc, unless replaced with the former or latter means it didn't work and they will revert to the same bad habits in running.
Above, four horses well in the market, returned a good lay profit for the day.

It's not all beer and skittles, but overall the stats add up for both back and lay methods.

Crossover noseband and tongue tie first time was a huge indicator to go in solid for a decent liability.

It's the reasons behind the statistics that are important, and has more to do with understanding a horse reaction to new gear.

[Chrome Prince]

GEAR CHANGES

Approach these only if favourite.
Any favourite not listed, back:
Favourite determined by Tattsbet fixed odds.

Canterbury
Race 1
1.Above All ************s FIRST TIME (Back)
2.Danas Best Blinkers AGAIN (Back)
5.Tamanu Park Kyneton Nose Band FIRST TIME (Lay)
8.War Horse Ear Muffs FIRST TIME, Tongue Tie FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 2
3.Onadowntowntrain Blinkers FIRST TIME, Noseroll OFF FIRST TIME, Tongue Tie FIRST TIME (Lay)
4.Senior Council Blinkers AGAIN, Gelded (Back)
6.Castigate Tongue Tie FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 3
4.Point Made Blinkers OFF FIRST TIME, Visor FIRST TIME (No bet)
7.Our Desert Warrior Gelded, Lugging Bit AGAIN, Norton Bit OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 4
1.Hydro Blinkers OFF AGAIN (Lay)
8.Respected Tongue Tie FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 5
8.Ameliorate Blinkers OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)
9.Grecian Melody Tongue Tie FIRST TIME (Lay)
12.Oh My Papa ************s FIRST TIME (Back)
16.Pinocchio Tongue Control Bit OFF FIRST TIME, Tongue Tie AGAIN (Lay)

Race 6
11.Barachello Blinkers FIRST TIME (Back)

Race 7
4.Okane Blinkers OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)
5.That's a Good Idea Blinkers AGAIN (Back)

11.Smart Patrol Blinkers OFF AGAIN, Visor FIRST TIME (no bet)

Sandown Hillside
Race 1
3.Gearstick Blinkers OFF FIRST TIME, Visor FIRST TIME (no bet)
4.Razzle Dazzle Rock Blinker Near side On OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 2
1.Dramatique Tongue Tie FIRST TIME, ************s FIRST TIME (Lay)
2.Force Twelve Tongue Tie OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)
4.Martelletto Blinkers OFF FIRST TIME, Noseroll FIRST TIME (no bet)
8.Are the Bungs In Blinkers FIRST TIME (Back)
12.Miss Eccles Blinkers FIRST TIME (Back)
16.Valtari Lugging Bit FIRST TIME, ************s FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 4
7.Bishops Castle Blinker Near side On OFF FIRST TIME, Bubble Cheeker Near Side On OFF FIRST TIME, Norton Bit FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 6
4.Zippa the Rippa Barrier Blanket FIRST TIME, Tongue Control Bit FIRST TIME, Tongue Tie OFF FIRST TIME, ************s OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)

Race 8
1.Westsouthwest Nasal Strip FIRST TIME (Back)
15.Montoya Heights Nasal Strip OFF FIRST TIME (Lay)

[Chrome Prince]

GEAR CHANGES

Approach these only if favourite.
Any favourite not listed, back:
Favourite determined by Tattsbet fixed odds.

Canterbury
Race 1
Nissile Unplaced
Race 2
Forever Loved WON $4.60
Race 3
7.Our Desert Warrior Gelded, Lugging Bit AGAIN, Norton Bit OFF FIRST TIME (Lay) WON (Accident)
Race 4
Charge Missile WON $5.00
Race 5
Fast And Sexy WON $4.60
Race 6
Ecuador 2nd
Race 7
5.That's a Good Idea Blinkers AGAIN (Back) WON $3.30

Sandown Hillside
Race 1
Self Sense WON $2.20
Race 2
General Web 3rd
Race 3
Are There Any WON $2.75
Race 4
Grane unplaced
Race 5
Office Bearer WON $2.10
Race 6
April Rose unplaced
Race 7
Don't Get Excited WON $2.30
Race 8
Te Karaka 3rd

14 selections
26.85 return
12.85 profit
91.78% POT

Sorry for the late update, suffering from H.I. (Human Influenza).
Will take me a few days to catch up on emails etc.

[Chrome Prince]

Adding to the Stable of striders:
Bonne Nuit (nominated Saturday @ The Valley)
Flash Of Doubt* (nominated Saturday @ The Valley)
Forever Love*
Danas Best*
Gregers (Accepted Saturday R1 @ The Valley)
Henwood
Honorius
Montgomery (nominated next Wednesday @ Sandown Lakeside)
Octavia
Pakal
Photon Willie
Puissance De Lune
Rain Affair (Accepted Saturday R6 @ Warwick Farm)
Recycle Prince
That's A Good Idea*

The stable has 15 horses in work, and will add to it until the stable is full of 20 striders to follow.

[Tayjack]

Hey Chrome,

After watching some replays this morning, i was thinking that royal descent could be one to add to the stable striders. Ran first up in sydney yesterday, the winner hidden kisses was the fitter horse and held on only due to this fact, but i thought that royal descent was really striding out. Waller obviously has bigger plans for her and didnt have her wound up, but i did see something there that suggested she could be added.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers - tj

[Chrome Prince]

Gregers WON @ $1.27 (BFSP NET)
Rain Affair 3rd
I thought the way they rode Rain Affair he was doomed to fail, stuck out there in the lead and four wide like a granny's tooth, and then trying to pinch it all the way after a hard run. In my opinion, he's better off sitting off the speed and storming home, that's when his stride comes into play
So far the "stable" has had six starts for three winners, one second placing, one third placing and earned $222,250 in prizemoney.
Betting action is plus 3.19 units. 53.17% POT

Adding to the Stable of striders:
Bonne Nuit
Cauthen*
Elite Elle*
Flash Of Doubt
Forever Love
Danas Best
Gregers
Henwood
Honorius
Montgomery
Octavia
Pakal
Photon Willie
Puissance De Lune
Rain Affair
Rebel Dane*
Recycle Prince
That's A Good Idea

TJ - Royal Descent could certainly be one to follow, however didn't qualify to be added to the stable as there are a number of points the horse has to pass. Will keep an eye on the next few starts though, as I'm most likely wrong :(

[Tayjack]

Hi CP,

Gotcha, they need to be meeting certain criteria before you add them. Agree here with Rain Affair, from memory, or thinking back through most of his runs, i can only remember once he has been ridden off the pace(maybe more, just cant remember), and he gathered them in fairly quickly, whether they were an ordinary bunch, or he missed the kick, or whatever, id like to see him ridden off the leaders. The trainer seems to think otherwise as he has been quoted often as saying he just wont settle when ridden patiently. Maybe a hugh bowman might suit the horse. If he ever did get that service, the horses stride you would almost definitely see come into play, because when he highball's it in front he sits at that high tempo cruising speed, and its a bit difficult to see the actual stride, so i think if he could settle, and then have the jock work him into it from the 600, you would see his stride once opened up start coming into play at the 400, which would probably see him gather them in at the 200 which would then pending on the others could see the jock get to the bottom of him.

A lot to like about Elite Elle, and saw her striding freely from the 400-200, when she put a couple on them, possibly the drop in class masked the win, but the stride was there to see.

Well done mate- keep it up.

Best TJ

[Chrome Prince]

Montgomery runs in The Australian Hurdle R2 Sandown tomorrow.

[Lord Greystoke]

Montgomery runs in The Australian Hurdle R2 Sandown tomorrow.Yup. Someone already up on the rooftops?

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#eaeaea"><td height="27" width="6">
</td> <td height="27">7</td> <td height="27">MONTGOMERY (https://tatts.com/racing/formguide.aspx?year=2013&month=8&day=28&meeting=MR&race=2#7)</td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:15px;" height="27">1.0</td> <td id="7_toteOdds" height="27" width="100"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#ebe3d1"> <td height="27" width="6%"> </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;" id="7_betOnWin" class="condChangedfav" height="27" valign="middle" width="44%">$1.0 (https://tatts.com/racing/2013/8/28/MR/2#)</td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;" height="27" width="44%">$1.0 (https://tatts.com/racing/2013/8/28/MR/2#)</td> <td height="27" width="6%"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td height="27" width="10"> </td> <td id="7_fixedOdds" height="27" width="100"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#d9e4ed"> <td height="27" width="6%"> </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;" height="27" width="44%"> N/A </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;" height="27" width="44%"> N/A </td> <td height="27" width="6%"> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td width="10"> </td> <td height="27">G BEDGGOOD </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;" height="27">6 </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;" height="27">64.0 </td> <td style="text-align:left;padding-left:5px;" height="27">WT </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;">091</td> <td style="text-align:right;padding-right:5px;">90</td> <td height="27" width="6">
</td></tr></tbody></table>
LG

[Chrome Prince]

Montgomery ran 2nd earning $19,000 for the stable.
Think the last jump cost him dearly as he he jumped it awkwardly.

So far the "stable" has had seven starts for three winners, two seconds, one third and earned $241,250 in prizemoney.
Betting action is plus 2.19 units. 31.29% POT

[Chrome Prince]

Adding to the Stable of striders:
Bonne Nuit
Cauthen
Elite Elle
Flash Of Doubt
Forever Love
Danas Best
Gregers
Henwood
Honorius
Montgomery
Octavia
Pakal
Photon Willie
Puissance De Lune
Rain Affair
Rebel Dane
Recycle Prince
Surpass*
That's A Good Idea

Just one shy of the full stable to follow

[Lord Greystoke]

You might need an extension to this stable of yours, out back of castle. Do you think it might be an idea to back them until they win then book then in for a 'spell'?

LG

[Chrome Prince]

LG, I might miss out on the repeat winners then!
I've identified these horses as being able to maintain good stride rather than a glimpse of a stride. Ergo, I think that this stable contains some very good Group horses. The value is generally not in the next run, as every man and his dog are clambering to get on, but rather the next few runs after I notice.

From a punting perspective still in slight profit, but from an owning, training perspective picked up nearly $250k in prizemoney by picking horses with good stride only in less than a month.

So I'm very happy with the way it's going.

Drawing up the plans for extension as we speak ;)

[Tayjack]

I see surpass added, didn't that horse extend today, he made them look like maidens and they weren't the worst bunch.

[Chrome Prince]

Surpass really was the run of the day TJ. Nice long stride, gathered them in like they were standing still, and maintained that stride right to the line.
I've got a few on the list, I can't wait to see in action again.

[Lord Greystoke]

From a punting perspective still in slight profit, but from an owning, training perspective picked up nearly $250k in prizemoney by picking horses with good stride only in less than a month.
Makes you wonder if this might be an exotic offering in the future? i.e. you buy a 'share' in a horse(its winnings) for a given race or carnival and share digitally in the 'prizemoney' it wins OR perhaps in the actual underlying winnings on the track less a share of the overheads in getting it the barrier? It would be like buying into an OTC derivative which yields a cash return based on the outcome of an event in the real world.

It's about time the corporates came up with something a little more innovative to make them stand out from the crowded market online and/or tote - something a little more exciting than features like 'protest payouts' and naming your own odds. Both have their merits but neither particularly spins my fun dials!

LG

[Tayjack]

Surpass really was the run of the day TJ. Nice long stride, gathered them in like they were standing still, and maintained that stride right to the line.
I've got a few on the list, I can't wait to see in action again.

Yep, and based on what you have said and reading between the lines a bit, i would think one of your selection criteria is that the horse needs to sustain a run of approx 400 m to meet a selection, or be displaying its stride for a sustained amount of time, be it 2 furlongs or even less but maybe right through to the line.

And yes my thoughts exactly, 100% the run of the day.

Best tj

[Chrome Prince]

You're spot on tayjack, that's the difference between a good strider only and a potential champion.

[Lord Greystoke]

Chrome forgive me being somewhat quizzical with your results to date. Do you find that these 'strider types' are often placed or just beaten ie close 2nd OR is it more like they either romp home blitzing the opposition in the straight or finish well back.

All or nothing or mostly thereabouts the winnng post within x lengths(strides?)

Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

LG, the only one of those listed that are rejected are those that "finish well back".
However, I can't really put it into a statistical formula, it's more like when I see it, it hits me, it stands out. I might watch 16 races and only one or two will stand out.
The first thing I look for is stride length, then abiility to maintain that stride length for a period, and then the actual speed.

http://www.racingnetwork.com.au/Vision/video_popout.aspx?mediaid=1016966

Here is Surpass, watch the race a couple of times, watch how he drifts back shuffled all the way back to third last, and then he makes a slow move, but when the jockey asks for an effort, he unleashes a withering stride and maintains it right to the judge and finishes off running three times the speed of anything else in the race.

[Lord Greystoke]

It never looked like it was going to even come in a place eh? First time I looked at the replay I kept checking to see if I was following the right horse!Then a couple of cracks (+1) and we are talking turbo-drive. Must have had oodles left in the tank back there to produce such a withering burst?

I noted the long striding back legs ending up where the front set were and the head leading as I think you have pointed out on several occasions now. Jockey timed it nicely too - makes you wonder if some hoops are particularly good with striders e.g. timing of the run to conserve the massive gas tank then a couple of bangs on the turbo column shift and away we go onto the winning post.

Excuse the petrol-head analogies above but I think I am starting to get the drift here - much better to put some reasoning behind a run home like that rather than watch your own pick mowed down by a laser beam and not know what the *%$* just happened.

LG

PS will take a second look now

[Lord Greystoke]

Ignore this post - it be a brain fade by M'Lud which was to blame.

LG

[Lord Greystoke]

Other things I noticed on 2nd replay...

1. I think I was on Tough Vintage(and Love if Liberty) in that race LOL
2. It's back legs didn't follow through as far as did those of Surpass, much shorter length of stride
3. Surpass legs seem to move much faster than the others in the run home - a bit like looking at car wheel spokes through window of another car= almost flashing backwards!
4. The caller only just picked up the turbo run home - was almost beginning to call mendevil home as the winner i.e. could hear it in his voice so must have been caught unawares as to express train coming thru on outside.

Interesting exercise, thanks mate.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

I noted the long striding back legs ending up where the front set were and the head leading as I think you have pointed out on several occasions now.

That's one of they key indicators LG, I always look for the hind legs filling the spaces left by the fore legs without over reaching.

You might find this interesting:

http://youtu.be/scZbaTTAbCM

The horse in question is Mark Johnston's Street Artist by Street Cry.
Although it's an amazing video and the horse shows excellent stride length, immediately I picked up on his lazy far side leg and he is overreaching, so his full power is not being transformed into speed / distance.
Because of his unbalanced stride he stands a high risk of injury.

So I looked him up on Timeform and he's had six starts for no wins, but 3 seconds and a third placing. His latest runs, he's been unplaced and only earned 3,465 pounds.

Such wonderful breeding, looks, stride, yet he has his gait problems.

[Chrome Prince]

Short strider Altius goes around again in Race 3 at Rosehill Saturday.
The horse can win if he gets the right split and the right pace, but he doesn't have the stride to be versatile enough to adapt to adverse conditions.
I'll be laying him again, because he should go around second favourite for some odd reason.

Onto the striders:

Bonne Nuit R7 Caulfield
Flash Of Doubt R2 Caulfield
Danas Best R4 Rosehill
Honorius R8 Rosehill
Pakal R7 Caulfield

Plenty of action Saturday.

[Chrome Prince]

Chris Waller says "Altius can blow them away this week".
I'm not so sure ;)

[Tayjack]

Chris Waller says "Altius can blow them away this week".
I'm not so sure ;)

From what i have seen too, I could not be putting any hard earned on the horse. It has had plenty of chances to clean up lesser fields than this one on Saturday??? But who I am to question probably the most astute trainer in the business.........

[Chrome Prince]

Feel the same way TJ, either I'm going to look like some sort of guru, or very silly indeed :(
However, I maintain that at the expected odds, Altius is absolutely no value at all, even if he manages to poke his very expensive nose through at the right time.
Having said all that, if he wins, he won't be winning anything better.
However, I'll probably be one of the first in line when he goes to stud :)

[Lord Greystoke]

That's one of they key indicators LG, I always look for the hind legs filling the spaces left by the fore legs without over reaching.

You might find this interesting:

I did find that very interesting Chrome - the things you don't see if (a) you aren't looking or (b) don't know what to look for. On another note, can you confirm your thoughts on this gear change: Noseroll First Time

Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

The noseroll has a similar effect to blinkers, ************s, cheekpieces etc. It is a big plus. They are used to make the horse concentrate on where he is going rather than stargazing. He needs to concentrate and look over the nose roll at the ground in front. Especially good for ungelded stallions who put their mind elsewhere at this time of year ;)

[Lord Greystoke]

Thanks mate. That is incredibly helpful detail.

Cheers LG

[Tayjack]

The noseroll has a similar effect to blinkers, ************s, cheekpieces etc. It is a big plus. They are used to make the horse concentrate on where he is going rather than stargazing. He needs to concentrate and look over the nose roll at the ground in front. Especially good for ungelded stallions who put their mind elsewhere at this time of year ;)

I am pretty sure it helps them carry there head at a better angle for racing, and stops them throwing their head up as you point out also, for what it's worth I love to see a horse striding out with no gear at all, they look an awesome thing!!

Best TJ

[Lord Greystoke]

Especially good for ungelded stallions who put their mind elsewhere at this time of year ;)

If only they had fitted a bit of kit to me i.e. before the onslaught of progeny.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

:D :D :D

[Chrome Prince]

I am pretty sure it helps them carry there head at a better angle for racing, and stops them throwing their head up as you point out also, for what it's worth I love to see a horse striding out with no gear at all, they look an awesome thing!!

Best TJ

Certainly does that too TJ, in fact I use a shadow roll when teaching young horses how to arch their neck, rather than pulling on the neck with side reins.
Far kinder on any horse.

[Chrome Prince]

Short strider Altius goes around again in Race 3 at Rosehill Saturday.
The horse can win if he gets the right split and the right pace, but he doesn't have the stride to be versatile enough to adapt to adverse conditions.
I'll be laying him again, because he should go around second favourite for some odd reason.


Altius, still carries a lot of money, and I can't fathom it.
He almost started Betfair favourite!
Another laclustre run, and Chris Waller must be delusional if he thought he ever had any chance of "blowing them away".

I had a very nice lay bet on him, so can't complain, but it leaves me wondering, what about the owners, what about the punters, why is this money going on every start?

Completely baffled.

[Lord Greystoke]

Apples did the business, I see?

Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

Bonne Nuit R7 Caulfield unplaced
Flash Of Doubt R2 Caulfield unplaced
Danas Best R4 Rosehill WON $3.28 (BFSP Net)
Honorius R8 Rosehill unplaced
Pakal R7 Caulfield 3rd

So far the "stable" has had twelve starts for four winners, two seconds, two third and earned $300,800 in prizemoney.
Betting action is plus 0.47 units. 3.92% POT

[Chrome Prince]

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NOXKDb-__Ls?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Tayjack]

[QUOTE=Chrome Prince]
Flash Of Doubt R2 Caulfield unplaced
[QUOTE]

Seriously, what an awful ride by the jock on this one, the horse jumped with them, travelled through the first 200 running 5/6th, then he snags back over 1000, then left climbing all over them after turning into the straight 3rd last. Why he had to snag back so far was beyond me. The 18's on offer was a good bet after the dominant win at sandown, only to be absolutely slaughtered by an apprentice. Couldnt believe my eyes when he did that, it was like he had a brain snap. <label for="rb_iconid_8">http://forums.ozmium.com.au/images/icons/icon8.gif</label>
<label for="rb_iconid_8">http://forums.ozmium.com.au/images/icons/icon8.gif</label>
As for altius, how could that horse of started 1st or 2nd fav after the efforts it has produced this time in. Nice lay chrome, and probably lay of the day. He just cant go in the straight, or even build into an even tempo and quicken for that matter.

Best TJ

[Chrome Prince]

Agree with both points TJ.
As for Altius, his one and only chance of winning was a ******** for leather pace and getting a split at the right time. Unfortunately they ran it at a dawdle and he was never a chance. There's a win for him somewhere someday, I feel desperately sorry for his connections. Especially when the trainer is making optimistic predictions.

[Tayjack]

Agree with both points TJ.
As for Altius, his one and only chance of winning was a ******** for leather pace and getting a split at the right time. Unfortunately they ran it at a dawdle and he was never a chance. There's a win for him somewhere someday, I feel desperately sorry for his connections. Especially when the trainer is making optimistic predictions.Yeah dawdle they did, im still not sure where waller places him to get that win, maybe he conders placing him back at the midweek somewhere to get some confidence.

Best tj

[Chrome Prince]

Here's a big call....Chris Waller is too successful to give Altius the attention he needs and deserves. With every failing run, he is costing his owners big money in training fees, stud fees and acceptance fees. Waller is so successful now, that he has big strings of successful horses to attend to.
Altius obviously needs to be "broke down" and built up again. He's got loads of ability, but needs to be trained differently.
He has no early speed, a short stride and a bad action (hence his injury).
Either they do something now, or they should retire him, he's bleeding money out of his stud value like a sieve.
Their only hope is to take him away from Waller, who is telling bedtime stories, and send him to someone who will nuture and work on the horse, not just keep him fit.
He needs to go over the jumps in training to sharpen him up and try to lengthen his stride. They need to work on his sprint, and they need to give the horse confidence, like set him for a nice midweeker as TJ suggested.

The best bred horses, are often the most expensive duds because people remain confident when they would have given up long ago.
And big trainers will keep stringing along clients for training fees rather than the right prospects for the horse :mad:

[Chrome Prince]

Fairly obvious of course, but the best strider from Saturday was Atlantic Jewel:

Atlantic Jewel*
Bonne Nuit
Cauthen
Elite Elle
Flash Of Doubt
Forever Love
Danas Best
Gregers
Henwood
Honorius
Montgomery
Octavia
Pakal
Photon Willie
Puissance De Lune
Rain Affair
Rebel Dane
Recycle Prince
Surpass
That's A Good Idea

This rounds out the stable of 20 striders to follow for demonstration purposes

[Chrome Prince]

So far the "stable" has had twelve starts for four winners, two seconds, two thirds and earned $300,800 in prizemoney.
Betting action is plus 0.47 units. 3.92% POT

[Chrome Prince]

I've criticised Chris Waller previously on his handling of Altius.
Not just the handling of Altius, but the feedback given regarding the horse's prospects. It's very difficult when you run a large successful team of Group performers. Clearly Chris has the talent and the bloodstock to be so successful.
I think the problem is he doesn't have the time to devote to Altius, as there are much better horses in his stable with better prospects.

Danielle from CWR (Chris Waller Racing) has been taking Hawkspur to dressage training. Hawkspur wears a lot of gear to dressage. Side reins attached to the saddle, what appears to be a snaffle ringbit (could be wrong).
Hawkspur is nominated for a lot of big Spring races and the dressage training could be to calmn the gelding down a bit.

Perhaps Danielle could take Altius out to do some basic dressage but more importantly work on his gait and stride. Sure there is the risk of repeat injury, especially if schooling over jumps, but they are wasting their time and owners money unless this horse can win a Group race to improve his stud value. I don't see him winning any Group races, except by pure luck where the pace hands it to him on a platter.

Chris says "Altius will probably go to the Cameron Handicap for his next start and if he was to win that race, we would be kicking ourselves if he wasn't nominated for the Epsom."

So the Cameron Handicap and Epsom are his targets, better pray for a cracking pace, or the horse has no hope at all :(

[Chrome Prince]

Interesting fact:

Altius has a full brother (a gelding) who it seems has retired from racing.
Coubertin was also trained by Chris Waller for some time and then transferred to Con Karakatsanis.

Coubertin Career Stats
Earnings: $21,310
Starts: 17
Wins: 2
Seconds: 1
Thirds: 0

He won a Maiden at Seymour and an RB72 at Sale these were when trained by A J Vasil.
Chris Waller had no wins nor placings for the horse after training him for 5 starts.
Con Karakatsanis also trained him for a further 5 starts, for 0 wins, 0 placings.

He is (was) owned by the same owner/breeders.

So who was the bright spark who suggested gelding this beautifully bred horse :eek:

[Tayjack]

I've criticised Chris Waller previously on his handling of Altius.
Not just the handling of Altius, but the feedback given regarding the horse's prospects. It's very difficult when you run a large successful team of Group performers. Clearly Chris has the talent and the bloodstock to be so successful.
I think the problem is he doesn't have the time to devote to Altius, as there are much better horses in his stable with better prospects.

Danielle from CWR (Chris Waller Racing) has been taking Hawkspur to dressage training. Hawkspur wears a lot of gear to dressage. Side reins attached to the saddle, what appears to be a snaffle ringbit (could be wrong).
Hawkspur is nominated for a lot of big Spring races and the dressage training could be to calmn the gelding down a bit.

Perhaps Danielle could take Altius out to do some basic dressage but more importantly work on his gait and stride. Sure there is the risk of repeat injury, especially if schooling over jumps, but they are wasting their time and owners money unless this horse can win a Group race to improve his stud value. I don't see him winning any Group races, except by pure luck where the pace hands it to him on a platter.

Chris says "Altius will probably go to the Cameron Handicap for his next start and if he was to win that race, we would be kicking ourselves if he wasn't nominated for the Epsom."

So the Cameron Handicap and Epsom are his targets, better pray for a cracking pace, or the horse has no hope at all :(

My understanding is with the snaffle ring bit, that by using these in different types of training it helps the horses mouth salivate, therefore settling the horse. A horse(especially a racehorse), doesnt need a dry mouth when he or she is in work and or in the middle of a campaign. By using the saffle ring bit this will entice the horse to be using its inner mouth/jaw/neck muscles to produce saliva aided by the snaffle. Im no trainer, but with your comments chrome, altius could do alot worse than what you say above. Surely for the owners, if it is good enough for hawk spur to be treated in such a fashion, then why not altius? From what i am seeing on the racetrack you would think the owners have a right to be seeking answers??http://www.propun.com.au/racing_forums/images/ichttp://www.propun.com.au/racing_forums/images/icons/icon9.gifons/icon9.gif

[Tayjack]

Interesting fact:

Altius has a full brother (a gelding) who it seems has retired from racing.
Coubertin was also trained by Chris Waller for some time and then transferred to Con Karakatsanis.

Coubertin Career Stats
Earnings: $21,310
Starts: 17
Wins: 2
Seconds: 1
Thirds: 0

He won a Maiden at Seymour and an RB72 at Sale these were when trained by A J Vasil.
Chris Waller had no wins nor placings for the horse after training him for 5 starts.
Con Karakatsanis also trained him for a further 5 starts, for 0 wins, 0 placings.

He is (was) owned by the same owner/breeders.

So who was the bright spark who suggested gelding this beautifully bred horse :eek:

Beautifully bred - not wrong, by Redoutes out of circles of Gold........Please.

All placings were on a dead track, all other starts on fast, good, slow and heavy look like this 14s;0-0-0.

Diabolical to say the least!

Best TJ

[Chrome Prince]

My understanding is with the snaffle ring bit, that by using these in different types of training it helps the horses mouth salivate, therefore settling the horse. A horse(especially a racehorse), doesnt need a dry mouth when he or she is in work and or in the middle of a campaign. By using the saffle ring bit this will entice the horse to be using its inner mouth/jaw/neck muscles to produce saliva aided by the snaffle. Im no trainer, but with your comments chrome, altius could do alot worse than what you say above. Surely for the owners, if it is good enough for hawk spur to be treated in such a fashion, then why not altius? From what i am seeing on the racetrack you would think the owners have a right to be seeking answers??

I also think the snaffle ring bit gives greater control of the horse and aids the horse in not getting the tongue over the bit, as it tends to push up towards the roof of the mouth.

[Chrome Prince]

Diabolical to say the least!


That sums it up best, TJ :D

[Chrome Prince]

http://youtu.be/CgcoCAwylW4?t=8m10s

Monty Roberts talks about stride and extending stride.

[Chrome Prince]

How handling a racehorse with care can produce fantastic results:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/D80miUV_FMs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Chrome Prince]

Strider stable selections so far for Saturday:

Randwick R2 #7 PHOTON WILLIE
Randwick R4 #11 FOREVER LOVED
Randwick R8 #10 THAT'S A GOOD IDEA

[Chrome Prince]

Flemington Striders for Saturday added:

Flemington R2 #2 CAUTHEN
Flemington R3 #6 BONNE NUIT
Flemington R5 #17 GREGERS
Flemington R6 #8 PUISSANCE DE LUNE
Flemington R7 #3 REBEL DANE
Flemington R8 #7 OCTAVIA

[Lord Greystoke]

Thanks for the updates Chrome. Have been meaning to ask you a question regards typical improvement in Mares - just not sure which thread to include it in so here goes (happy to move elsewhere if you prefer)

Am trying to ascertain what typically happens with progress/potential for mares i.e. as they progress from 4yo-5-6yo+

e.g. can a mare with a poor / average win record develop into an average/good/'strider'? prospect over this period and is this somewhat or substantially different for other types etc

Also - is there a peak age at which a Mare generally performs, after which it's improvement falls off?

Cheers LG

PS have done a bit of a search on here and elsewhere but not coming up with much by way of a guide, hence my query here.

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks for the updates Chrome. Have been meaning to ask you a question regards typical improvement in Mares - just not sure which thread to include it in so here goes (happy to move elsewhere if you prefer)

Am trying to ascertain what typically happens with progress/potential for mares i.e. as they progress from 4yo-5-6yo+

e.g. can a mare with a poor / average win record develop into an average/good/'strider'? prospect over this period and is this somewhat or substantially different for other types etc

Also - is there a peak age at which a Mare generally performs, after which it's improvement falls off?

Cheers LG

PS have done a bit of a search on here and elsewhere but not coming up with much by way of a guide, hence my query here.

Interesting question LG!
I am certainly of the opinion that a mare will never develop into a good strider unless she is trained to be a good strider. Most trainers do not go to the trouble of extra training, to improve stride. Basically most trainers will keep a horse healthy, fit and try to improve distance or speed. However, usually stride is something that most trainers don't have the know how to improve. It takes a tremendous amount of work to improve stride, and a good natural strider is always preferable.

A mare can improve out of sight depending on what's been holding her back.
Mares are notoriously moody and can get out of sorts for many reasons.
When a mare puts it all together on the day, she can improve dramatically.

If I give the example of mares that run favourite by age, this might shed some light:

All Mares Favourite
29.80% S/R

4yo Mares Favourite
30.31% S/R

5yo Mares Favourite
28.85% S/R

6yo Mares Favourite
28.09% S/R

7yo Mares Favourite
26.15% S/R

>7yo Mares Favourite
28.30% S/R

I'd say it depends on the mare, but overall they do tend to train off with age, it also depends on what age they started their race career.

As it stands, with current training methods and the cost of time, it is highly unlikely that a mare will increase it's stride length, unless she has had an injury stopping her stride out.

[Lord Greystoke]

As per usual, very detailed answer.. thanks mate.

It would seem that good Mares peak around the 4yo mark then start to slowly taper off. If they are not good striding types from the outset, they are unlikely to become so later on in their career. Also that on any given day, a mare can outperform in comparison to its previous track record - sometimes remarkably so i.e. perform to a much higher rating which could be many lengths difference between expected/average run and it's actual performance on the day. Hard to pick when this might happen from what I gather. Perhaps one indicator might be the quality of the trainer as per his track record (with mares?) i.e. how well he places/prepares her, especially if there is some indication that she is ready to outperform. And also regards the rider on top??

A mare can improve out of sight depending on what's been holding her back.

Do you have any feel for whether this is more likely to occur;
1. at the start/middle/end of a campaign
2. with specific gear changes (or lack of)
3. with mares, as opposed to other types.

Apologies for the extra Qs here but your take and stats on this matter seem to concur with my observations so i am keen to peel back a few more layers, if possible!

Cheers LG

[Chrome Prince]

Do you have any feel for whether this is more likely to occur;
1. at the start/middle/end of a campaign
2. with specific gear changes (or lack of)
3. with mares, as opposed to other types.

Apologies for the extra Qs here but your take and stats on this matter seem to concur with my observations so i am keen to peel back a few more layers, if possible!

Cheers LG

Sorry I can't give a definitive answer here LG, because it depends on so many variables. I think it can occur at any time during the campaign and that is why so many mares are unpredictable. Of course, blinkers shadow rolls, w inkers and the like can improve mares considerably, depending in her disposition at the time.

Here's some more food for thought though....

Of 2,163 winners over $50.00
71 were colts
299 were fillies
1,272 were geldings
49 were entires
472 were mares

So are geldings full of more surprises than mares?

Not so, there are significantly more of them running around.
There were only 69,395 of them running around at odds of 50/1 or better
versus 170,284 geldings, so more than double!

But as you say, there are more layers to this than a Sara-Lee cake ;)

[Lord Greystoke]

Sorry I can't give a definitive answer here LG, because it depends on so many variables. I think it can occur at any time during the campaign and that is why so many mares are unpredictable.;)Point taken Chrome, thanks for your input on this.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Some very interesting comments by Chris Waller this week.
As I've noted, his training style is to set them to run off the pace and come home late. As Canterbury is a leaders track, all his runners yesterday had no hope. Not only were there no winners, there were no placings at all.
This is something to note for future when it comes to leader tracks in general.

Chris says that the track was particularly biased yesterday and this sort of bias only occurs around four times per year. In my opinion the stats tell a different story and it seems he is grasping at excuses again.

I have great respect for Chris as a trainer, but I think these things should be pointed out to put things into perspective. He has handled Altius in a very poor manner in my opinion, and his excuses just don't hold water when things don't go as planned.

He certainly isn't the Lone Ranger though. :(

[Tayjack]

Some very interesting comments by Chris Waller this week.
As I've noted, his training style is to set them to run off the pace and come home late. As Canterbury is a leaders track, all his runners yesterday had no hope. Not only were there no winners, there were no placings at all.
This is something to note for future when it comes to leader tracks in general.

Chris says that the track was particularly biased yesterday and this sort of bias only occurs around four times per year. In my opinion the stats tell a different story and it seems he is grasping at excuses again.

I have great respect for Chris as a trainer, but I think these things should be pointed out to put things into perspective. He has handled Altius in a very poor manner in my opinion, and his excuses just don't hold water when things don't go as planned.

He certainly isn't the Lone Ranger though. :(

Seriously - Canterbury approx 4 times a year a biased leaders track?????? Im no ************, but what i can 100% say, is that canterbury is a leaders track all year round every year every week. Results have told us that for years.

Best TJ.

[Chrome Prince]

There you go TJ, I thought his statement was laughable to say the least.

He has had some winners there when he decides to train them that way, but he's justifying his poor results yesterday with some perceived magical bias that only manifests itself 4 times a year.
The track was a Good 3 all day, so it wasn't like there was anything unique.

He's a fantastic trainer no doubt, but he's really letting himself down lately with these antics.

[Tayjack]

There you go TJ, I thought his statement was laughable to say the least.

He has had some winners there when he decides to train them that way, but he's justifying his poor results yesterday with some perceived magical bias that only manifests itself 4 times a year.
The track was a Good 3 all day, so it wasn't like there was anything unique.
He's a fantastic trainer no doubt, but he's really letting himself down lately with these antics.

Yep no question about his training abilities, possible that he expects success most of the time regardless of any track he takes them too which would leave some owners scratching, due to the way he likes to train them sitting midfield/off the pace/out the back etc if they are running at those tight turning tracks, which in turn leaves his horses vulnerable.

[Chrome Prince]

Subject horse Kinz Funky Monkey finished 8th on 1st September in an Optional Claimer at Del Mar. It was a 6 furlong race (1200M) and she struggled from the home turn, was a little wide, but faded badly in the straight.

Possible explanation is that this race was held on the Del Mar All Weather track and not the Turf track. However, I'm inclined to think there is more to this story than meets the eye.

Her form is now 321138 and after running in Stakes races they put her in an optional claimer. The question begs, is she injured? She has always made ground late, that's her trademark, and she faded in the straight to run last in a lower class race.

There were also two Stakes races on the program, so that says a lot that they opted for the Claimer.

Will be keeping an eye out to see her progress back on the turf track.

[Chrome Prince]

Randwick R2 #7 PHOTON WILLIE 2nd ($16,750 prizemoney)
Randwick R4 #11 FOREVER LOVED unplaced
Randwick R8 #10 THAT'S A GOOD IDEA WON $2.79 (BFSP Net) ($48,750 prizemoney)

Flemington R2 #2 CAUTHEN unplaced
Flemington R3 #6 BONNE NUIT unplaced
Flemington R5 #17 GREGERS unplaced
Flemington R6 #8 PUISSANCE DE LUNE 2nd ($63,000 prizemoney)
Flemington R7 #3 REBEL DANE unplaced
Flemington R8 #7 OCTAVIA unplaced

So far the "stable" has had 21 starts for 5 winners, 4 seconds, 2 thirds and earned $429,300 in prizemoney.
Betting action is minus 5.74 units. 27.33% LOT

No wonder breeders and trainers are raking in the bucks and the punters are left hollow :(

[Chrome Prince]

Noticed that Hawkspur referred to earlier in this thread won today at odds of BFSP $6.81 (Net) after Danielle from Waller's stable took him to dressage training last week.
Very few punters would have been aware of this little extra training.

[Lord Greystoke]

So far the "stable" has had 21 starts for 5 winners, 4 seconds, 2 thirds and earned $429,300 in prizemoney.
Betting action is minus 5.74 units. 27.33% LOT

No wonder breeders and trainers are raking in the bucks and the punters are left hollow :(This does not sit well with me Chrome - However, that said, if one cannot beat the establishment then we either accept the loss gracefully and / OR swap sides. If you can't beat the bank, be the bank (or play the same hand)?

LG

[Chrome Prince]

I am about to become the bank LG. :D
It's still fairly early days of course, and I'm confident better things are around the corner as far betting returns go, but I'm in the process of seeking funding for a thoroughbred breeding enterprise. As such I'd become an owner breeder, as I think I have what it takes not to waste time on non performers and recognise talent when I see it, even in training and stride.
I feel there are far greater returns available with minimal risk on the dark side.

[Lord Greystoke]

Best of luck with that Chrome.

If I had still had a fraction of the dosh I made on the last big stock market bubble I would offer my hat in the ring.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks LG, appreciate the best wishes.
Certainly I wish I could just go out and purchase the land, but one needs good soil with drainage but dams and reasonably flat areas for training. The amount of land needs to be an absolute minimum of 20 acres and to find this within a reasonable distance of the city is near impossible for the money I am looking at :(

I'm in talks with a number of people and non profit organisations, because I intend to use part of the land for racehorse rescue and retirement. Having visited the abbatoirs and seen the way they are treated, makes my stomach turn. You can't save them all, but if I can even save a few, it will be very rewarding, especially if I can find good homes for them.

I'm also going to rescue factory farm animal such as chickens and pigs, and grow my own produce to feed the animals, so they will be free to roam the pastures as nature intended and not be locked up in solitary confinement or worse overcrowded dark conditions.

I think I'll get more enjoyment out of this side of the farm, than the excitment of breeding, pretraining and owning a winner or two.

[Chrome Prince]

Surpass has accepted for R8 Mornington on Wednesday.

[Chrome Prince]

Thought I'd share this, as there is a bit of an insight into David Hayes' operation in Euroa.

http://www.inglis.tv/E8grf

[Chrome Prince]

Surpass R8 Mornington WON $3.85 ($21,000 prizemoney)

So far the "stable" has had 22 starts for 6 winners, 4 seconds, 2 thirds and earned $450,300 in prizemoney.
Betting action is minus 2.89 units. 13.14% LOT

[Chrome Prince]

Stable Striders for Saturday:

ROSEHILL
R5 #1 RAIN AFFAIR
R8 #6 HONORIUS

MOONEE VALLEY
R4 #1 ATLANTIC JEWEL
R4 #5 BONNE NUIT
R8 #7 ELITE ELLE

[Chrome Prince]

Nothing to report from the stable of Chris Waller other than his obvious recent success. Noticed he's really toned it down this week though ;)

[Chrome Prince]

Been doing a lot of research recently regarding horse welfare. It seems there are some startling goings on within the industry that concern me greatly, as I am an avid racing enthusiast, but not at the expense of the animal.

No, I'm not one of those rogue protesters, nor am I going to agree 100% with anyone either side of the fence, I'll just state the facts I've found that are a matter of public record.

These prestigious bloodstock sales are full of a dirty secret.
Many of the larger auction establishments are purchasing the supplementary animals that don't achieve a certain figure, and selling them to the knackery for profit.

I have investigated this issue thoroughly, and have evidence of names of those that do it, and the horses involved. (Not to be mentioned here)

I went through the catalogues at the sales and looked for the cheapies, I then researched each and every horse purchased in house that had a racing name.

Then I went a step further and investigated the lot numbers at one knackery which shall remain nameless.

This concerns me greatly, because there are horses that need to be put down, but the treatment prior and the manner in which they are killed is simply sickening.

The big auction houses which are a part of this should be ashamed of themselves.

Looking up horses, I have found that horses killed at the knackery are hidden from public view, RISA are not even informed that the horse "died", many of them are simply listed as spelling :(

The second issue is the stance of a so called animal welfare agency.
They are criticising horseracing, whip use, jumps racing etc etc.
But both the Victorian and NSW divisions have supported the culling (too ashamed to say killing) of Australia's wild brumbys.

At first thought one might imagine that perhaps for the welfare of the population, numbers need to be decreased. I don't agree with this, but can see the point.

However, the startling facts are these:

It is reported that many are starving to death in the wild, however, just about all video footage of these horses in the wild shows them almost obese!
There are of course some starving brumbies, but this is natural attrition due to their teeth being worn down and unable to feed properly. This happens with windsuckers if left untreated.

In the last brumby cull many were not killed instantly and carcasses were just left to rot, which created all sorts of health risks for the remaining horses.
More than one brumby was found alive but injured days later, one brumby was finally found two weeks later still alive but wounded badly as repoted on ABC TV.

This is the solution to badly managed National Parks, to make the problem go away.

If someone shoots their own pet, they are charged with animal cruelty (if the animal isn't injured).
So how can this be legal?

Surely trapping the males and setting up a fenced area to control numbers is a more humane and effective longterm control. A fenced area could be less than 1% of a National Park and still be massive in size so as to not restrict freedom of movement and still supply enough food.

It costs $40 a head to kill 1,000 brumbies.
I think there are better ways of killing them for $40,000 than aerial shooting.

I don't know, it's all just inhumane and completely illogical to me.

[Chrome Prince]

On a more positive note, I have mentioned that long striding types have a superior edge, providing they have the speed.
Sometimes we aren't able to judge the stride for many reasons.
The horse may not be extended when parading, you may not be able to see the stride in a race because the horse is a bit obscured by other horses, or you may not be able to pick it up with the naked eye.

There is another way to pick stride without having to look at the gait.

If the vertebrae of the withers are long (front to back), the shoulder is more free to move backwards. This allows for an increase of stride length (and so it can increase the horse's speed). It is also important in jumping, as the shoulder must rotate back for the horse to make his forearm more parallel to the ground, which will then raise the animal's knees upward and get the lower legs out of the way. Therefore, the withers have a direct impact on one of the most important points of conformation: the shoulder.

It is not necessarily the height of the withers, it is the length of the withers.

These are the horse's withers:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Withers.jpg/300px-Withers.jpg

When going to look at suitable horses for dressage, eventing, jumping and even potential breeding or those suitable to race, I always look at the combination of withers and stride if I can.

Short withers are really bad, but ssometimes you can pick up a bargain if the horse has short withers, poor stride but has grand sire and dam with very good withers. This would be a case where I would purchase the horse for breeding at a fraction of the cost. Of course they may breed several short withered horses depending on the dominance of the gene.
Mixing various sires and dams can sometimes get a long withered horse, with good bloodlines and this is the cheapest way to get a very good horse.

If you look at all the champion sires, and racehorses, they usually have a combination of high and long withers, very prominent.

My horse Chrome Prince, which I owned a very long time ago, was a sprinter but had very short withers. He was a gelding and was not fast enough to make the grade, but did win a lot of picnic races because he had one burst of speed. He was well muscled and had a very good chest, but didn't have the stride or the withers.

Here are some pictures of some very good horses, note the actual wither definition. This is a key part of conformation.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2011/02/19/1226008/519500-black-caviar.jpg

http://www.virtualformguide.com/photos/stallions/hussonet.jpg

http://www.virtualformguide.com/photos/stallions/zeditave.jpg

Note the actual wither definition, the rise from the neck and the length, they all have this in common, and one could make informed decisions without seeing the stride at all. However, of course it's most preferable to see the combination of withers, stride and gait.

[Tayjack]

Surely trapping the males and setting up a fenced area to control numbers is a more humane and effective longterm control. A fenced area could be less than 1% of a National Park and still be massive in size so as to not restrict freedom of movement and still supply enough food.

It costs $40 a head to kill 1,000 brumbies.
I think there are better ways of killing them for $40,000 than aerial shooting.

I don't know, it's all just inhumane and completely illogical to me.

That would be too easy for another human outside the authorities to do, however imbercilic beauracrats get paid to complicate and come up with illogical decisions.

Best TJ

[Chrome Prince]

TJ,
Then there's the jumps racing total debarcle.
Idea: Lower the jumps and make them collapsible.
Consequence: Horses go over them faster, and trip over.

Surely the whole idea is to get the horse to slow down and navigate the jump properly, no speed up increasing the chance of a fall.
Anyone who has watch eventing or Olympic jumping, or English jmps racing knows that the slower a horse goes over a jump, the more likely it is to do it safely.
But the boffins have really brought jumps racing into disrepute now :(

[Chrome Prince]

ROSEHILL
R5 #1 RAIN AFFAIR unplaced
R8 #6 HONORIUS 2nd ($25,000 prizemoney)

MOONEE VALLEY
R4 #1 ATLANTIC JEWEL WON $1.05 (BFSP Net) ($132,000 prizemoney).
R4 #5 BONNE NUIT unplaced
R8 #7 ELITE ELLE unplaced

So far the "stable" has had 27 starts for 7 winners, 5 seconds, 2 thirds and earned $607,300 in prizemoney.
Betting action is minus 6.84 units. 25.33% LOT

I can see that the prizemoney just keeps increasing steadily, and the betting loss does also, so on one hand, I'm stoked, on the other perplexed.

[darkydog2002]

May be time to bin this one Chrome.

Cheers

[Chrome Prince]

Not on your life Darky :D

The horse I have picked out for the virtual stable have won $607,300 for the virtual owner based on stride assessment.
There is obviously something there, and I'm looking at stride / class refinements for the punting angle.

[Tayjack]

TJ,
Then there's the jumps racing total debarcle.
Idea: Lower the jumps and make them collapsible.
Consequence: Horses go over them faster, and trip over.

Surely the whole idea is to get the horse to slow down and navigate the jump properly, no speed up increasing the chance of a fall.
Anyone who has watch eventing or Olympic jumping, or English jmps racing knows that the slower a horse goes over a jump, the more likely it is to do it safely.
But the boffins have really brought jumps racing into disrepute now :(

100%- But the buffoons, have money goggles on and are ******** bent on looking good for their employers, rather than looking out for the animal. The English jumps racing is classic example, and should be taken notice of by our shores!

I see surpass saluted midweek, although not as impressive as its previous win at sandown, However I put that down to the track, he looks like he relishes a nice long straight like sandown or possible Flemington!

Best TJ

[NitroPunter]

I would like to see you keep it going CP

I follow this closely and personally see great potential in it as a factor to deciding on whether a horse is worth a wager.

I doubt it will ever be the over riding factor and by including every race in your betting turnover I think sells the practice short when so many other factors are in play.

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks NP, yes I'll be keeping it going at least for a while because I think it's way too early to make refinements.
A lot of these horses have had huge jumps in grade and only been narrowly beaten, hence the accumulation in prizemoney. My personal challenge has been to put my eye to the test rather than a punting perspective. Can I judge the stride and does that translate to career potential?
So far I think from that perspective, it's going fairly well.

[Chrome Prince]

Super Striders are going around midweek.

Wednesday:
Newcastle R7 That's A Good Idea

Thursday:
Newcastle R7 Danas Best

Our old friend Altius goes around in the same race as That's A Good Idea.
I won't be laying him this time, as he won't be short enough, and if they go at breakneck pace, he can get a crack at them.
If he were short odds (fave or second fave), I'd have a dip as he's good lay value, but he'll be big odds I think.

[Chrome Prince]

That's A Good Idea was disappointing - unplaced.

Altius ran somewhere around 7th.
Just doesn't seem to have any stride left at all.

[Chrome Prince]

Saturday's Striders (so far).

RANDWICK
R1 PHOTON WILLIE

CAULFIELD
R5 OCTAVIA
R5 FLASH OF DOUBT
R7 GREGERS
R8 PAKAL
R9 PUISSANCE DE LUNE
R9 ATLANTIC JEWEL

[Chrome Prince]

Danas Best was unplaced yesterday.

Chris Waller says that he's very happy with Photon Willie, as he's learning to settle and switch off now, not get as fired up during and towards the end of the race, where his head has nearly done him in a couple of times. He's lost a little of his zip, but Chris is happy that he's right and prefers him to be switched off.

[Chrome Prince]

RANDWICK
R1 PHOTON WILLIE WON $3.74 BFSP NET ($48,750 prizemoney)

CAULFIELD
R5 OCTAVIA unplaced
R5 FLASH OF DOUBT 3rd ($13,500 prizemoney)
R7 GREGERS WON $5.89 BFSP NET ($105,000 prizemoney)
R8 PAKAL unplaced
R9 PUISSANCE DE LUNE unplaced
R9 ATLANTIC JEWEL 2nd ($72,000 prizemoney)

So far the "stable" has had 36 starts for 9 winners, 6 seconds, 3 thirds and earned $741,550 in prizemoney.
Betting action is minus 6.21 units. 17.25% LOT

[Chrome Prince]

Super Striders so far engaged this week:

Saturday
Mornington
R6 SURPASS

Sunday
Caulfield
R2 BONNE NUIT
R8 REBEL DANE

[Chrome Prince]

Saturday
Mornington
R6 SURPASS 2nd ($21,600 prizemoney)

Sunday
Caulfield
R2 BONNE NUIT unplaced
R8 REBEL DANE WON $5.67 (BFSP Net) ($240,000 prizemoney)

So far the "stable" has had 39 starts for 10 winners, 7 seconds, 3 thirds and earned $1,003,150 in prizemoney.
25.64% win strike rate.
51.28% place strike rate.
Betting action is -3.54 units. 9.08% LOT


Very happy to pass the Million dollar mark today for the Super Strider Virtual Stable :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOXKDb-__Ls

[Chrome Prince]

SUPER STRIDERS: 05/10/2013

RANDWICK
R3 HONORIUS
R9 DANAS BEST

FLEMINGTON
R8 PUISSANCE DE LUNE

[Chrome Prince]

RANDWICK
R3 HONORIUS WON $3.66 BFSP (Net) ($75,000 prizemoney)
R9 DANAS BEST unplaced

FLEMINGTON
R8 PUISSANCE DE LUNE 2nd ($90,000 prizemoney)

The Super Strider Stable has had 42 starts for 11 winners, 8 seconds, 3 thirds and earned $1,168,150 in prizemoney.
26.19% win strike rate.
52.38% place strike rate.
Betting action is -2.88 units. 6.86% LOT

[Chrome Prince]

Hi all,
Been away for a while for family reasons, but I'm back now.
Been a few runners going around earning the dollars in prizemoney, so time for an update.

Octavia 19th October unplaced
Gregers 25th October 2nd ($39,600 prizemoney)
Henwood 26th October unplaced
Bonne Nuit 11th October unplaced
Flash Of Doubt 12th October unplaced
Flash Of Doubt 23rd October unplaced
Honorius 19th October unplaced
Pakal 13th October WON ($120,000 prizemoney) $4.42
Puissance De Lune 26th October unplaced
Rebel Dane 25th October unplaced
That's A Good Idea 26th October WON ($48,750 prizemoney) $2.95
Atlantic Jewel 12th October WON ($240,000 prizemoney) $1.34

The Super Strider Stable has had 54 starts for 14 winners, 9 seconds, 3 thirds and earned $1,616,500 in prizemoney.
25.93% win strike rate.
48.15% place strike rate.
Betting action is -6.17 units. 11.43% LOT

Some notes of interest:
Atlantic Jewel is retired now, Puissance De Lune is lame after they worked him in the sand dunes and then raced him at the Valley. Sand dunes are great for building muscle, not for stamina, to put a horse over the dunes and then run him on the strathayr and put w-inkers on him so he overraced is nuts. No wonder he is lame, and will probably be retired I'd say. Very poor call by Weir.
Recently been working with a son of Rancho Ruler who is a nutcase, the owners were told he is a rising 6yo, he ain't, Rancho Ruler is 26yo if he's alive, so my best guess is their horse is rising 16yo. This horse is branded but for some stupid reason they branded the last digit of the year, so a horse can be 7, 17 or 27 :eek:

Here's one I've not come across, been working with a TB mare, beautiful stride, could have been the next big thing, never seen a stride so fluid and long. The trainer had bought this horse unbranded and then branded it herself I found out!!! She couldn't register the horse as she had no paperwork??? Totally unbelievable in this day and age. So this mare cannot even be bred from as a race broodmare with any value. But this mare has some blue blood and she would have bred some stunning types. They will be worthless because of her missing identification. Such a shame, a real loss, she has the sweetest temperament and the biggest stride I've seen in the flesh to date. I got to ride her over the training track and when she let down, I felt like Bossy :) Was like riding a cushion of air under a hard hold.
Oh well, what might have been :(

[Rinconpaul]

Good to have you back CP. Boy you're right into this "Horse Whisperer" stuff now. Great when an interest/hobby becomes a pastime.

[Lord Greystoke]

Good to have you back CP. Boy you're right into this "Horse Whisperer" stuff now. Great when an interest/hobby becomes a pastime.An interest/hobby? Pastime?? The boy has more horse genes in his DNA than Aldiniti.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Good to have you back CP. Boy you're right into this "Horse Whisperer" stuff now. Great when an interest/hobby becomes a pastime.

Thanks RP, great to be back.
I've seen a lot of things during my pastime, some horrible ways horses are treated by people who should know better, and met some really wonderful people who treat their horses like royalty. I've also learned a great deal more than I know, which may help with my punting but probably just help with selecting the right horses to follow.

[Chrome Prince]

An interest/hobby? Pastime?? The boy has more horse genes in his DNA than Aldiniti.

LG

Funny you should say that LG, my dear old mother actually said "are you sure you weren't a horse in a past life?"
If I was, I probably ran 20 lengths last in a maiden at Echuca ;)

I also recently learned that my great grandfather and his father were horse men. Very surprised, but it was in some family documents.

[Lord Greystoke]

Funny you should say that LG, my dear old mother actually said "are you sure you weren't a horse in a past life?"
If I was, I probably ran 20 lengths last in a maiden at Echuca ;)

I also recently learned that my great grandfather and his father were horse men. Very surprised, but it was in some family documents.Looks like yer mum knows her oats, son.

LG

[Chrome Prince]

Here's a further update, Henwood was scratched today, but would have been a selection in R10 Flemington.

12th October That's A Good Idea WON $2.33 BFSP net. ($48,750 prizemoney)
16th October Gregers 3rd ($45,000 prizemoney)
2nd November Pakal unplaced

The Super Strider Stable has had 57 starts for 15 winners, 9 seconds, 4 thirds and earned $1,710,250 in prizemoney.
26.32% win strike rate.
49.12% place strike rate.
Betting action is -6.84 units. 12.00% LOT

[Chrome Prince]

Super Strider selections for Oaks Day:

Flemington Race 4
Octavia
Flash Of Doubt

[Chrome Prince]

Super strider selections Saturday:

Flemington Race 6 Rebel Dane
Flemington Race 9 Henwood

[Chrome Prince]

A little bit on the training side...

I have been working with a few thoroughbreds recently and made some suggestions to owners.
I don't like horses being locked up in almost solitary confinement, horses are herd animals, they need interaction for excercise, vitamin D from sunlight and fresh grass, there is no subsitute for natural training. All the supplements in the world are not as good as their natural environment.
Most trainers train the body like a piece of sports equipment, horses are not pieces of equipment, they are thinking feeling animals which also need correct training of their minds.

Many fractures are caused by the lack of natural Vitamin D.
Most digestive problems such as colic are caused by anxiety, and unnatural feeding habits.
Many stable problems such as weaving and windsucking are caused by seperation anxiety, there is no herd.
The horse never knows it's place, in the herd there is a pecking order, the herd has a leader, captains and followers. There is mental comfort in being part of the herd, horses don't look after themselves, the herd looks after itself. Certain horses within the herd take on the role of mother to ANY young horse and provide guidance, protection and discipline.

Most trainers do not allow horses to be horses, so they have no idea how to be horses, there is no yardstick, no play, no fighting. Horses love to play, it is part of their interaction.

The mental and physical excercise a horse gets in a herd is simply immeasurable.

I have two owners that I made some suggestions to.
The horses were turned out with a group of handpicked companions to make up a nice herd. They are out on ten acres with trees and a dam.
They previously had dead eyes, no glint, no sparkle and fought their handlers every time they came out of solitary confinement.
One of them was a kicker and a biter. :eek:

Their trainer who shall remain nameless, said "it's rubbish".
I explained to the owners why I was making the suggestions and how it would benefit their pockets.

So they gave it a go.

I went and visited the horses today, I drove away with a very warm heart.
There they were, galloping in the field, looking after two colts, no rugs on, grazing on lush green grass, playing with a huge ball I'd left for them.
The naughty boy had been temporarily banished from the herd and was under a tree waiting for the signal to be let back in. They all came galloping up to me, eyes bright and full of life, no biting, no kicking. Just a lot of whinnying.

The other side of this is they had built muscle from being part of a herd and their ribs were now covered, not emaciated by three meals of hard feed a day.

I feel a lot of good horses would be a good deal better on the track if treated this way. The anxiety horses carry onto the track is a lot of energy burnt that could be saved for the last 400m of a race.

I should add that these horses were not performing at country level, so the owners had nothing to lose. I'm not allowed near the good horses just yet :(
Hopefully that might change soon.

[Rinconpaul]

A good news story CP, thanks for sharing it. I remember building 3 large blocks of stables for trotters. Once occupied, one always had to be careful not to get bitten as you walked past the day yards. You've got to imagine yourself in their circumstances and how it'd affect you.

[Chrome Prince]

Thanks RP, although horses do get turned out for spells, very very rarely are they allowed to run with a herd and it made a huge difference.
I have also observed the biting behaviour and windsucking in most racing stables, the time they get away from the stable does not compensate for the seperation anxiety they experience.
Horses need other horses more than people need other people, and look at what happens to people in the lock up for years. By this I mean, like the Green Mile :(

[Chrome Prince]

Seems all the Super Striders are having a well deserved holiday, including short strider Altius.

[Chrome Prince]

Love my Super Striders :D

[Chrome Prince]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_vhDh5JCDqo?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is a video of Belle Couture, Black Caviar's little sister.
She did quite well in a jumpout.

There are a couple of very worrying signs however.
In the first part of the video, she keeps backing away from the trainer.
Horses don't really like to walk backwards by preference, they only do it when they feel in danger or fear.
Secondly in the latter part of the video she is pacing her stall and her ears are very laid back indicating she is not happy where she is.
Trainers don't seem to read horse body language very well at all, a lot of her energy is used up with anxiety. It will be interesting to watch her debut race, I'm sure her mental state will impact at a vital stage of her debut.

[Chrome Prince]

Belle Couture was narrowly beaten when $1.50 favourite at Bendigo, then was set to run at Geelong on 8th of January, but was scratched and hasn't raced since.
There is much to take away from this as mentioned in the prior post.

Natural horsemanship is slowly trickling, albeit very slowly, into the racing world.
It's no secret that I train many horses using natural horsemanship myself and have seen the impact these methods have made to a horse's psychological welfare. Currently breaking in a 2yo stock horse that was unruly and slow to learn. Taking probably five times the amount of time a general horse breaker would take and advising the client that the horse needs time to be broken has paid dividends. Finally have the horse long reigning and moving forward and stopping purely by voice command. This is with only one two hour session per fortnight.

By using this technique, the horse still has not had a bit in his mouth and is extremely light and soft to rein commands.When we move to the bit, the horse will not fight the commands and will understand the signals, therefore his mouth will remain extremely soft and require the lightest of pressure by the rider.

The point of this, is to demonstrate the mental and physical benefits of natural horsemanship. Looking at head position, body posture, gait, eyes, ears. One can ascertain where the horse is at mentally. More importantly a happy horse does not expend energy pre race, loading, during the race, fighting rider and handlers. This wasted energy can make a huge difference between winning and losing when the margins are so tight.

If Belle Couture's head were in the right place, there's no doubt she would have won at Bendigo. Here is a very short video of her workout at Flemington followed by a look at her prior to breaking in

http://video.news.com.au/v/145557/Black-Caviars-sister-Belle-Couture-runs-second#ooid=puNHd0azr4IWk9cNWtdyuxXkN_L3jWXA

You might notice, that by comparing her demeanor in both videos there is a marked difference. The breaking in process has made her extremely nervous and anxious.

Many race trainers have rubbished these ideas and stick by time honoured "hard" breaking techniques. However, there are a few owners and trainers that are starting to take notice. Most notable are the Queen, Gai Waterhouse and agent John Foote.

Storm Fabulador was originally trained in Melbourne, but Peter Moody soon advised he wouldn’t make the grade down south and sent him north to Ballina trainer John Everson.
He was sourced by Foote before being broken in by the “horse whisperer” Monty Roberts in California.
After switching trainers, Storm Fabulador won a BM55, a BM52, was only 1.6L away in a Lismore Cup, won a BM69, BM56, BM60, was a neck away in a BM75 and more recently won a Tatt's Club Handicap at Eagle Farm.
The horse required light handling and was better over distance. Something that Moody seemed to miss.
Foote spoke before the run at Eagle Farm:
"I've had Monty Roberts work with him [Storm Fabulador], and he's turned the corner. He's right mentally and weight-wise, he's so well placed today. I will be disappointed if he loses.''

Another example is the Queen's horse Carlton House trained by Gai and our last Melbourne Cup winner Fiorente. Both horses were worked with by Monty Roberts.
Waterhouse admitted she would be similarly non-plussed if Melbourne Cup hero Fiorente does not make a winning return in the Group 2 $220,000 Peter Young Stakes (1800m) at Caulfield. Fiorente was also worked with by Monty before his Melbourne Cup win.
Fiorente won that race as 10/9 Favourite.

Carlton House is still struggling.

The impact of a horse's mental condition and the way he is treated is a paramount part of his success, if he has the physical ability.

[Chrome Prince]

Fillies and Mares....

It's generally known that the handicapper usually gives age and or sex weight discounts. Generally it's accepted that this is purely based on perceived strength differences.
However, upon doing some analysis, the weight discount does not even the playing field.
So why is it that mares and fillies under perform and especially when competing against colts and geldings?

Having worked with fillies and mares they are often very nervous and have dual personalities. This can be based on being seasonal or just variation of temperament or attitude.
This would go further to explaining mixed form and form reversals.
Of course there are exceptions to this such as Makybe Diva and Black Caviar, but they are more even tempered or docile.
There are plenty of Youtube videos of Sunline's last race. She was clearly hyped up and mentally not right on her lead up to the barriers.

So the proposal I'm making is that strength has nothing to do with it. A brilliant mare or filly will beat the boys hands down every time providing she has shown consistent form.
Mares or fillies with mixed form or obviously toey or notoriously hard to load should be given significantly greater weight allowance when composing ratings. Unless the mare or filly is significantly good, definitely avoid taking short prices on those with yo yo form.

[jose]

Took the old man along to see Monty Roberts in a show at the Boondal Entertainment centre a fair while ago. Gee he is a good man with a horse that bloke.
The old man was like a kid in a lolly shop, he lined up and got an autographed book and a photo etc.
Actually the old man was a bit before his time as well as he was breaking in horses using the "Jeffrey Method" as far back as I can recall. That method used kindness and firmness as opposed to cruelty I suppose.
I think a lot of this comes back to the horse itself though. As an example the old man and a mate of his broke in a horse each, the old man using the Jeffrey method and his mate using the old throw them on the ground and put the tackle on them, break their spirit type method.
When they were finished, both horses were roughly the same to handle and ride.

I have heard from a few old timers that it is not actually the breaking in that is most important but the work that is put into them once they are broken. In fact a few of them used to swear by giving a freshly broken horse to a drover for a few months to pour some work into them.
Bit long winded sorry, just got on a roll.

[Chrome Prince]

Natural horsemanship wins the day again.
Well done Fiorente ;)

The mind makes the difference in a close finish.

[Chrome Prince]

So what's become of Altius, the best bred horse in the barn, with a short stride?
He's been sent to New Zealand to be trained by his part owner Mr T W Cole.
Mr Cole has entered his Group class horse in everything from Maidens to Opens in New Zealand.
Altius ran 2nd of 11 in a NZ maiden.
Then just got home by a nose in his next maiden start
Ran 3rd in a BM65 (beaten 4.3 lengths)
And finally 4th in an Open class race only beaten 0.4 lengths.

All this after GELDING him :eek:

His bloodline is gone, and he's no better for it.
As stated prior, he would have been best kept as an entire, doing striding exercises and going over jumps, now he's just a plodder with great bloodlines :(

[Chrome Prince]

Caulfield R4 #13 (b)(g)
Caulfield R5 #12 (b)
Caulfield R6 #4 (g) WON $6.20
Caulfield R7 #2 (b)

Doomben R7 #2 (b) WON $5.50

Morphettville R1 #9 (b)
Morphettville R1 #12 (b)
Morphettville R2 #5 (b) WON $1.60

Randwick R3 #12 (b)
Randwick R5 #10 (b)
Randwick R8 #2 (b)

(b) = blinkers FIRST time
(g) = gelded

[grizzle]

(g) = gelded
Pretty severe gear change

[Chrome Prince]

Ascot R1 #3 Fathing Fast (g) 3rd
Sandown Race 1 #1 Dillon Hall (g) 2nd

[Chrome Prince]

As we have a day off, here are some selections for tomorrow:

Caulfield
Race 5
17.Boer Gelded
18.Belesron Gelded
20.Excellent Flight Gelded

Oakbank
Race 1
1.Fair Script Gelded
Race 6
12.Waitaha Toa Gelded

[Chrome Prince]

Caulfield
Race 5
17.Boer Gelded unplaced
18.Belesron Gelded scratched
20.Excellent Flight Gelded unplaced

Oakbank
Race 1
1.Fair Script Gelded 3rd
Race 6
12.Waitaha Toa Gelded 3rd

A nice place profit today.

[Chrome Prince]

Kensington
Race 1
#1
Astro Avalanche (g) Scratched :(

[Chrome Prince]

Flemington
R1
#8
Single Days (g)

Gosford
R5
#1
Queenian (g)

Gosford
R6
#4
Goldclip (g)

[Chrome Prince]

Belle Couture I had mentioned previously was not happy within herself.
She's fighting against riders and handlers and doesn't look comfortable at all.
She's wearing a crossover noseband these days as has the inclination to over race. After her narrow defeat at Bendigo, she strode out at Caulfield to storm home for a convincing win.
After that performance, I began to question myself, but I think it's more Damien Oliver has found the key to getting her to settle and use the least energy.
Low and behold, she steps out at Flemington and this is what Winks had to say after finishing dead last:
Belle Couture – rider J Winks reported was fractious in the barriers, stumbled on jumping, was slow into stride and failed to travel throughout. A post race veterinary examination failed to reveal any abnormal findings.
Stewards have her on watch, maybe she has to trial.

Being fractious, slow out and stumbling would be it for a leader, but they planned to come home from back in the field, the fact she made zero ground tends to suggest she used up all her nervous energy just prior to the gates opening.

Is this going to be one of those sad stories of a horse with great potential, not being able to exhibit it on track because of lack of understanding.

She has a very long way to go to recoup the fortune they outlayed on her.

[darkydog2002]

Sounds like one for the knackery to me.

[Chrome Prince]

Certainly not DD.
The horse has potential, that's the point.

[Chrome Prince]

Of great interest to me was the win of BELEEUP yesterday at bolters odds.
No, never had a bet on it at all.
The interest came from the fact that I looked into it's past, I believe it won a trial earlier on and then ran 5th in the country, 4th in the city, and then 5th in the city.
The horse has had very bad hooves looking into it. And John McArdle said the horse has a lot of talent on the training track but is a bolter. Unable to be slowed in a race and at one time had been banned for being difficult to load.

They put on a crossover noseband and whacko 1st at bolters odds.
It's basically a bridle for horses that open their mouth in races and “pull”. A crossover nose band has 2 straps that cross over the front of the nose to from an X. The bottom strap does up under the chin – the other one is half way down the nasal bone. The crossover nose band stops the horse from opening its mouth but also the horse feels pressure the moment he starts to bolt from both the bit and the noseband.

I find it interesting that sometimes there is just no explanation on paper for a form turnaround, and others have little histories that do explain it.
It did blow like the North wind in betting also, so the stable must not have realised the difference this type of gear can do to a horse's performance.

[Chrome Prince]

Belle Couture I had mentioned previously was not happy within herself.
She's fighting against riders and handlers and doesn't look comfortable at all.
She's wearing a crossover noseband these days as has the inclination to over race. After her narrow defeat at Bendigo, she strode out at Caulfield to storm home for a convincing win.
After that performance, I began to question myself, but I think it's more Damien Oliver has found the key to getting her to settle and use the least energy.
Low and behold, she steps out at Flemington and this is what Winks had to say after finishing dead last:
Belle Couture – rider J Winks reported was fractious in the barriers, stumbled on jumping, was slow into stride and failed to travel throughout. A post race veterinary examination failed to reveal any abnormal findings.
Stewards have her on watch, maybe she has to trial.

Being fractious, slow out and stumbling would be it for a leader, but they planned to come home from back in the field, the fact she made zero ground tends to suggest she used up all her nervous energy just prior to the gates opening.

Is this going to be one of those sad stories of a horse with great potential, not being able to exhibit it on track because of lack of understanding.

She has a very long way to go to recoup the fortune they outlayed on her.

Yep, next start 12th of 13.
D Lane, rider of Belle Couture, reported that he was not entirely happy with the filly’s action. A post race veterinary examination of Belle Couture failed to reveal any abnormal findings.
This is one nervous horse that will never be as good as her sibling.
They've lost a fortune!

[Chrome Prince]

Belle Couture retired due to injury.
Sad for the horse and connections, but paying huge overs for unproven stock always ends in tears, especially when you try and extract money from immature 2yo's.

Next comes Black Caviar's foal.
What price you think it will go for?
What age will they start it racing at?
How much will it earn?

I think the answers are obvious, but I'll post when it happens yet again.

[Chrome Prince]

Revisiting this thread...
As a group, since identifying the Super Striders, they have earned in excess of $2 Million dollars in prizemoney, but we were just breaking even using Betfair prices.

Since the last update to Super Striders:

30/08/2014 (SAT) MORPHETTVILLE
R 6 # 1 FLASH OF DOUBT 2ND 3.60
30/08/2014 (SAT) CAULFIELD
R 3 # 8 HENWOOD WON 4.40 1.70
R 7 # 3 GREGERS WON 2.10 1.40
R 7 #13 FOREVER LOVED 4TH
R 8 # 6 PUISSANCE DE LUNE 3RD 2.90
23/08/2014 (SAT) RANDWICK
R 2 # 2 SURPASS WON 6.30 2.30
23/08/2014 (SAT) MOONEE VALLEY
R 3 # 1 HENWOOD
16/08/2014 (SAT) ROSEHILL
R 6 # 1 HONORIUS
16/08/2014 (SAT) CAULFIELD
R 8 # 2 PUISSANCE DE LUNE
R 9 # 2 GREGERS WON 1.80 1.20
R 9 # 9 FLASH OF DOUBT
09/08/2014 (SAT) RANDWICK
R 6 # 2 REBEL DANE 3RD 1.50
09/08/2014 (SAT) FLEMINGTON
R 2 # 1 SURPASS 4TH
06/08/2014 (WED) SANDOWN
R 4 # 1 FLASH OF DOUBT 4TH
26/07/2014 (SAT) CAULFIELD
R 8 # 8 SURPASS
19/07/2014 (SAT) FLEMINGTON
R 7 # 6 FLASH OF DOUBT

Today's Super Striders:
06/09/2014 (SAT) RANDWICK
SR 2 # 2 SURPASS
SR 6 # 3 RAIN AFFAIR
SR 7 # 8 HONORIUS

06/09/2014 (SAT) MOONEE VALLEY
MR 5 # 6 CAUTHEN
MR 7 # 6 PAKAL
MR 8 # 4 HENWOOD

[Chrome Prince]

Just heard a strong rumour that Black Caviar will be mated with Frankel next season.
The price of THAT foal would have to be the highest ever on record.
But will that foal be an expensive dud?
I'd like to think not, but history just keeps repeating itself.
It would be great for racing if the foal were to be the next superstar though.

[Chrome Prince]

Super Strider Updates

20/09/2014 RANDWICK
R 5 # 5 HONORIUS
20/09/2014 CAULFIELD
R 8 #12 FOREVER LOVED
R 9 #16 CAUTHEN
17/09/2014 MORNINGTON
R 1 # 3 FLASH OF DOUBT WON 10.70 3.20
13/09/2014 FLEMINGTON
R 5 # 3 GREGERS
R 7 # 6 PUISSANCE DE LUNE 3RD 1.70
06/09/2014 RANDWICK
R 2 # 2 SURPASS 3RD 0.00
R 6 # 3 RAIN AFFAIR 3RD 1.50
R 7 # 8 HONORIUS
06/09/2014 MOONEE VALLEY
R 5 # 6 CAUTHEN
R 7 # 6 PAKAL
R 8 # 4 HENWOOD

Super Striders have now exceeded $3.5 million in earnings since starting to follow them last year. Those earnings do NOT include prizemoney for greater than third place, to offset nomination and jockey fees somewhat.