Do the TAB ban/limit successful punters like Ladbrokes and Sportsbet?

[Pat123]

A lot of you have probably seen the Today/Tonight special on bookies banning and limiting the accounts of successful punters. They track your betting habits and if you show certain betting patterns you're done for, even if they are way up on you. I trade and lost tonnes of money through both Sportsbet and Ladbrokes - they were fine taking the money ofcourse, but as soon as I had a win with both Ladbrokes and Sportsbet limited me immediately. I am relatively new to this, but have the feeling it's because they're both UK owned; is this correct? If so, is this standard practise for UK bookies?

Anyway, my question is do the TAB ban and/or limit successful punters the same way these other jokers do?

[Shaun]

They may if it is fixed price betting as this is run by a bookmaker but if it is just tote bets then never, because they can't lose on tote bets.

[UselessBettor]

Almost all bookies run out of the NT can and will ban successful punters.
If a bookie gives fixed prices then its likely they will also ban punters.

the tote does not ban successful punters
betfair does not ban successful punters

[Rinconpaul]

Can you elaborate? I mean an exchange makes a commission win, lose or draw, they don't make any more money if punters lose because it's a balanced equation. Whatever comes in, goes out less commission.
I make a living out of Betfair and am curios as to why you would make this statement?

[PaulD01]

Hi Pat123,

My record with corporate bookmakers that are still operating:

IAS - partly restricted;
Sportsbet - barred;
Centerbet - barred;
B365 - barred;
Betstar - barred;
Ladbrokes - barred (account was closed in 7 mins);
Luxbet - barred;
Sportingbet - can only bet metro and limited to win 5k;
Bookmaker.com - barred;
Dynabet - severely restricted may as well not bet.

The good news though is:

Tabcorp - can bet any metro race to win 20k;
Top Sport - limited to win 5k before race day but can bet to win pretty much anything on race day;
Tatts - same as Tabcorp;
Palmerbet - a bit up and down but seem to get a reasonable bet on metro less so on provincial and country.

Other than these I use bowlers and a commission agent on track.

My suggtestion:

Target one of the cowboys at a time and hit them as hard and as fast as you can. You are going to get barred anyway if you are a winning punter so at least get some of their money.

[Pat123]

Thanks for the replies.

Has anyone here been banned from using fixed odds with the TAB?

[UselessBettor]

Mark,

I think RiconPaul was referring to you insinuating betfair will ban you.

The only known reason I know betfair will ban you is for betting too small.

[Rinconpaul]

So do I Rinconpaul, and it used to be a good one, before Premium Charges and the place became overrun by robots as predicted by me and others at least 8 years ago.


Thanks for the reply Mark, and I'm with you on the online bookmakers and their tactics. What I fear most isn't the issue of being banned from betting, as I don't use any of them and never will. What I am concerned about is how they're 'killing off' the oncourse bookmakers and their livelihood. I rely first and foremost on the oncourse bookmakers prices in the system I use and rue the day when all I'll be presented with is a synthetic contrived opening price provided by online bookmakers, to lead everyone down the NT garden path?

But by way of clarification to my original post, I was talking about your statement that Betfair could ban successful punters. I glean that you primarily Lay or Trade so you would use Betfair exclusively? Aren't they in a different category? I've googled whether anyone has been banned by Betfair and the only instances refer to underage bettors, false identities or forum posters getting out of control.

[UselessBettor]

What were they banned for ? I actually know of two reasons:

1. Betting too small.
2. When people reach the premium charge they create a new account.

Apart from that I have not heard of anyone getting their accounts banned.

[Rinconpaul]

Found this on the Betfair oz website:

We won't shut you down if you're a winning customer - winners are welcome at Betfair. Unlike bookmakers, we won't limit your stake size or close down your account if you're a successful punter. Bookmakers make their money from losing customers, so winning punters are often marginalised. If you're a successful punter, you will love Betfair.

[UselessBettor]

What were they banned for ? I actually know of two reasons:

1. Betting too small.
2. When people reach the premium charge they create a new account.

Apart from that I have not heard of anyone getting their accounts banned. Can you elaborate on the reasons.
I forgot to add:

3. Money laundering or activites that seem like money laundering.

[Pat123]

Further to my 2nd question, has anyone here or know of anyone that's been barred from TAB fixed horse racing odds? And what were the reasons for the luxbet banning? Were fixed odds included in the ban?

[Rinconpaul]

Thinking outside the square here? If the pro punters (making a profit Backing) can't get on with all the online bookies, then they must take their turnover to Betfair, Totes or Oncourse bookies.
What proportion of the punting turnover would be represented by the pro's compared with the amateurs? Do the successful punters, 2% of the punting population, provide say 50% of the turnover? If it's a significant proportion, this will help ensure the viability of the alternatives to online bookmakers. Considering the cut throat competition for the mug money, they must be cutting margins to the bone and hopefully a few will go bust?

[UselessBettor]

Further to my 2nd question, has anyone here or know of anyone that's been barred from TAB fixed horse racing odds? And what were the reasons for the luxbet banning? Were fixed odds included in the ban?
Sorry Pat. I do not know anyone banned from TAB Fixed Odds and I do not use them. Usually fixed odds are what will be banned and/or "best of" products.

[Rinconpaul]

Another fact to support the fact that successful Betfair punters are encouraged is that Zeljko Ranogaje's punting represents one third of the Australian operation. Can't see them banning him anytime soon?

[Pat123]

By the way, like others, I've also been banned or limited by almost all UK bookmakers. Ladbrokes were up on me by about $10k, I then had a win of $2.1k and it was game over. I was losing overall, so why would they want to cut getting more money off me? I lasted 1 month with them. Sportsbet I last 48 hours. Bookmaker and Ias banned me aswell as they're obviously affiliated with the other jokers. I've had big wins and big losses with the TAB and Luxbet and touch wood havent been restricted yet.

This is primarily why I want to find out what the situation is with tabcorp backed luxbet and TAB. If they follow the same policies as the UK owned bookmakers, I guess I'm wasting my time. Looking forward to hearing back from others experiences with the tab and luxbet. Thanks!

[Chrome Prince]

It's unfortunate, it'a all automated via computer. The software online bookies use flags accounts that take advantage of all bonus type offers to the maximum benefit each time, win x amount within a timespan whether or not they are winning overall and bet in a methodical manner.

Basically they are looking solely for recreational losing punters, where their exposure for each punter is low and who continually chase until they lose 100% of their balance and then top up.
This is the profile of their bread and butter customer.
Anything else is rejected :(

[Pat123]

It's unfortunate, it'a all automated via computer. The software online bookies use flags accounts that take advantage of all bonus type offers to the maximum benefit each time, win x amount within a timespan whether or not they are winning overall and bet in a methodical manner.

Basically they are looking solely for recreational losing punters, where their exposure for each punter is low and who continually chase until they lose 100% of their balance and then top up.
This is the profile of their bread and butter customer.
Anything else is rejected :(So is it different with the TAB and/or Luxbet?

[UselessBettor]

Another fact to support the fact that successful Betfair punters are encouraged is that Zeljko Ranogaje's punting represents one third of the Australian operation. Can't see them banning him anytime soon?
Well considering he was basically only winning due to his "arrangements" with the totes I doubt he would do well on betfair.

[stugots]

Can't say I have ever heard of anyone have a betfair account closed for the sole reason. Of winning, some have had their methods rendered unprofitable by premium charges, so there can be issues there with trying to reduce or avoid it, but closing accounts because they are winning? No don't think so.

[Pat123]

I just called up both Ladbrokes and Sportsbet to see if they would revise my account so I can have fixed odds back; both said no.

This is really sh--. I honestly believe they'd get more money out of me (actually they haven't gotten any over the last month) if they let me bet on fixed odds. I was losing HEAPS through both! Down more than $10k for Ladbrokes and $5k through Sportsbet.

How are they even allowed to do this? Is this purely because they are UK owned?

[UselessBettor]

I just called up both Ladbrokes and Sportsbet to see if they would revise my account so I can have fixed odds back; both said no.

This is really sh--. I honestly believe they'd get more money out of me (actually they haven't gotten any over the last month) if they let me bet on fixed odds. I was losing HEAPS through both! Down more than $10k for Ladbrokes and $5k through Sportsbet.

How are they even allowed to do this? Is this purely because they are UK owned?
The government allows it here. (well the NT Government).

Yes it sucks. But right now nothing can be done about it so move on to another bookie. Yes it sucks and eventually its just too hard to find another bookie that will accept you.

[UselessBettor]

If you saw the news today about the police integrity commission and the gambling. This is what happens when they can choose who is allowed to punt.

Technically there was nothing illegal about what they did but it wasn't of the highest integrity.

[Pat123]

Can someone help me out here:

For those of you that use Fixed Odds through the TAB website, do you get a notice in the bet slip saying "bookmaker is considering your bet, please wait..", or something along those lines?

On a couple of occasions my bet was not accepted, or at a reduced stake, then following this (almost every time tonight) they changed the odds straight after my bet (dropped them). All this only just happened tonight. Before this almost every bet went through unless it was a huge stake in which case I'd get a small notice saying "please try --x-- amount". Now I am getting different notices which are being reviewed by bookmakers..

Cheers.

[Pat123]

This is what I am referring to in my previous post below:

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5883/8h7t.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/8h7t.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[UselessBettor]

Your account has now been marked. Time to find another bookie Pat.

[stugots]

Not trying to promote, have no affiliation & do not use them so am not vouching in any way, but a search of these forums for the bookie many here use for opening prices should find you a bookie that is local & advertises that they do not ban winning accounts & set out the bet amounts they will accept - for example I believe their Saturday minimum is $10k liability.

[Pat123]

Not trying to promote, have no affiliation & do not use them so am not vouching in any way, but a search of these forums for the bookie many here use for opening prices should find you a bookie that is local & advertises that they do not ban winning accounts & set out the bet amounts they will accept - for example I believe their Saturday minimum is $10k liability.Are you able to send me a message about who you're referring to? That'd be helpful. Cheers

[darkydog2002]

The Moderator would probably blank it out Pat.

They even do that with the name of a horse on here.

(See Tipping Contest.)

[Pat123]

The Moderator would probably blank it out Pat.

They even do that with the name of a horse on here.

(See Tipping Contest.)Thanks for the heads up. Well I'd like to find out who this bookie is, so if there's a way to let me know without advertising it through the forum in any way that'd be appreciated.

I'm just after fixed odds for international horse racing meets in the UK etc.

[stugots]

Are you able to send me a message about who you're referring to? That'd be helpful. Cheers


PM is disabled here - without I hope being too cryptic - if one climes to the blank of Everest, one might find themselves featured on Fox blank

[stugots]

*climbs

[Mark]

$200 @ 1.50 and they have to think about it ???? What has the world come to. There were bets 20 times bigger than that 30 years ago on the country circuit. The toothless tiger that is the Racing Licensee Board needs a good kick up the you know where. This case alone is enough for a show cause notice.

[Pat123]

PM is disabled here - without I hope being too cryptic - if one climes to the blank of Everest, one might find themselves featured on Fox blank

They do international horse racing now? I checked a week ago and they don't offer it....

[petstep]

The one you are referring to has his office in NSW.

[stugots]

They do international horse racing now? I checked a week ago and they don't offer it....


Yeah cover all the internationals, base in QLD I believe

[petstep]

Yes Stugouts. When I worked for the Gold Coast Turf Club, he was a rails bookmaker, I don't know whether he still does. The online op is based in Tweed Heads.

[Lord Greystoke]

$200 @ 1.50 and they have to think about it ???? What has the world come to. There were bets 20 times bigger than that 30 years ago on the country circuit. The toothless tiger that is the Racing Licensee Board needs a good kick up the you know where. This case alone is enough for a show cause notice.Said it before and perhaps one last time. The current model which is plugged to saturation point to gen y z etc is running a double edged sword i.e. if you are looking to capture new clients thru various media channels including online, tv etc and you are very visible as a result, then it only takes one or two stories - bits of evidence which are contrary to the message peddled, before the 'real message' spreads and does so quickly.. people talk and 'walk' as a result. Quickly!

Therein lies the remedy if you get my drift?

You might be surprised how even the large entities can turn and crumble on a single sentence. A good (bad?) example might be ratners in the UK. Different game and scenario but an example of how quickly things can change. These days, there is better management of the messages put out in the market place(and fire fighting if things go wrong) I think because their are many more channels, news spreads a hell of a lot quicker, more competition, more at stake etc. The elephants in the room - market can still stumble, however!

Just my thoughts - musings on a pleasant friday evening.

Cheers LG

[Pat123]

Yeah cover all the internationals, base in QLD I believeDamn, now I have no idea who you're referring to. I was thinking of pinnacle.

*never mind.. got it! have never seen this group before..

[Rinconpaul]

John Singleton has backed his mare Dear Demi to win $1 million in the Melbourne Cup with a NSW-based betting operation.
TopSport.com.au's head Lloyd Merlehan has a long history of laying big bets from Singleton. He was happy to accept the challenge about the mare, which ran third in the Caulfield Cup.
“It is not the silliest racing bet Singo has had with me,” Merlehan said. “She ran a good race in the Caulfield Cup and when he rang up and asked to back her to win a million I was happy to take him on.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/john-singletons-3-million-gamble-on-dear-demi-20131024-2w2t3.html#ixzz2lMgIloHD

[Pat123]

It looks like the TAB are now using my betting as a tool to help them change the odds. I couldn't get $250 on at 1.21 (fixed place) just then; the bet was rejected, then the odds changed to 1.18 straight after and I put a bet through and it was accepted.

[UselessBettor]

It looks like the TAB are now using my betting as a tool to help them change the odds. I couldn't get $250 on at 1.21 (fixed place) just then; the bet was rejected, then the odds changed to 1.18 straight after and I put a bet through and it was accepted.
How long can you keep this up and still make a profit arbing the difference ?

[Pat123]

Not long it seems. I was under the impression the TAB didn't have the same policies as the UK bookies. Check this out:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6923/qnjq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/qnjq.jpg/)

[Pat123]

And this, when trying to place a $100 bet, click Submit Bet and get a notice saying "account currently accessed"

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8391/kyey.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/kyey.png/)


umm what..?

[UselessBettor]

Not long it seems. I was under the impression the TAB didn't have the same policies as the UK bookies.
All the bookies are licensed under the NT legislation. They all play by the same rules and they all use the rules to their advantage.

As I said I have been down the path you are taking already and the profit potential is just not worth the work.

If they ever change the laws to force them to take a minimum size bet (like $1000) then I will be jumping back onto this as quick as possible. It was easy money at the odds they were offering. But if the rules do change I suspect the odds we currently get won't be available anymore.

Good Luck with it Pat but I think your available options for this are closing very quickly.

[stugots]

Pat, were I on your shoes I would be drafting a rather scathing email attaching the screen prints you have & asking w t f is going on.

That said knowing my impatience levels I would probably already have burnt all bridges with a not so subtle phone call.

Knocking back $30win bets on 5/2 chances...what a brave new world we live in :mad:

[Pat123]

All the bookies are licensed under the NT legislation. They all play by the same rules and they all use the rules to their advantage.

As I said I have been down the path you are taking already and the profit potential is just not worth the work.

If they ever change the laws to force them to take a minimum size bet (like $1000) then I will be jumping back onto this as quick as possible. It was easy money at the odds they were offering. But if the rules do change I suspect the odds we currently get won't be available anymore.

Good Luck with it Pat but I think your available options for this are closing very quickly.All good, account back to normal. They called me - they were just monitoring where the 'smart money' was. Plus I have a new account with that other Tweed Heads group now. Back in the game.

By the way, TAB told me over the phone they aren't licensed under the NT. They have different legislation (NSW/VIC).