Cyberhorse Form outtage

[Chrome Prince]

For those wondering what happened to the form files from Cyberhorse.
Bill has said that the server crashed and corrupted the database.
I believe this ocurred yesterday, so no form for yesterday or the weekend.
Don't know how long it's going to take to be rebuilt properly, but they are going to get a backup, and then of course all the new form loaded.

Could take quite some time :(

Sorry guys, I found out last night, but had to be out early this morning and only just returned home.

[blackdog1]

For those wondering what happened to the form files from Cyberhorse.
Bill has said that the server crashed and corrupted the database.
I believe this ocurred yesterday, so no form for yesterday or the weekend.
Don't know how long it's going to take to be rebuilt properly, but they are going to get a backup, and then of course all the new form loaded.

Could take quite some time :(

Sorry guys, I found out last night, but had to be out early this morning and only just returned home.Re. his backup regime, I have been with Cyber from the very first and when he had his earliest data corruption years ago he asked us to help out and upload the zipfiles if we kept it.

I think if I as a individual punter can keep my backups up to date it should be mandatory for him to have one of several backup drives ready to slot in. One back-up drive for a business like his is no backup.

Lucky I'm using other sources too.

[Chrome Prince]

From what I can gather his database is hosted by his isp, so it's not his drive failing, he has to upload his backup to his isp, imagine how long that would take!
Isp's generally only have one backup, so if their server crashes, backup and real data gone, they're not going to fish around in old drives to reupload it, because it's of no consequence to them.
This is another reason I will not put anything on the Cloud, and use a raid configuration server at home. If it crashes, hot swap a drive, if it's corrupted, restore from an image file.

Many major worldwide companies are very sorry they ever heard of the Cloud, including Amazon.com. All my previous companies went offsite to the Cloud and they regularly ring me for help. Sorry, can't help them!

[blackdog1]

This is another reason I will not put anything on the Cloud, and use a raid configuration server at home. If it crashes, hot swap a drive, if it's corrupted, restore from an image file.

Many major worldwide companies are very sorry they ever heard of the Cloud, including Amazon.com. All my previous companies went offsite to the Cloud and they regularly ring me for help. Sorry, can't help them!Cloud was pushed on us early on and been touted as the best thing since sliced bread.

My boss is fairly old fashioned if one can say that about an IT guy and after some trial and eval. he decided it's not for us.

I heard some horror stories too, but regardless it seems to work for others, good luck to them I say.

[Chrome Prince]

Still no form, and still no word. :(
It's looking bleak for the weekend.

[Chrome Prince]

Cloud was pushed on us early on and been touted as the best thing since sliced bread.

My boss is fairly old fashioned if one can say that about an IT guy and after some trial and eval. he decided it's not for us.

I heard some horror stories too, but regardless it seems to work for others, good luck to them I say.

Yep I'm an old fashioned IT guy, there have been numerous reports of hackers accessing the Cloud. Most companies have credit card numbers, full personnel details including bank account details, trust and business account details etc etc and all the information a hacker would need to set up several clone identities and use those identities to siphon funds.Just recently a number of companies including Adobe and Racing Post have emailed me to say they had security breaches and although it's encrypted, a hacker has all the time in the world to work it out, once he's downloaded all the data. Happened to Betfair accounts also.

Cloud may be good for hosting unimportant files like iTunes music, but confidential and banking details is asking for trouble. Also most companies trust Microsoft to have uncorrupted backups, I know of a few ocassions where the backups were corrupted and all company information was lost forever!
Going to be loads of fun come Tax time!!!

Tatsbet was also very suspiciously slow last week for a number of days at off peak times.

[blackdog1]

Still no form, and still no word. :(
It's looking bleak for the weekend.I fear my suspicions (backup) are confirmed.
Never be without a plan B and C.
As someone here mentioned, all you need fall behind is to miss a good winner, and none of us need any help with that. Doubly painful when it's out of your control.

[Shaun]

I am only just starting to use a cloud server from Amazon, main reason is i am able to upload my excel and Gruss software and run it with no issues, since i am no longer fully set up it makes sense to me and at a nice cost as i only run it when i need to.

I can use remote desktop from my tablet with out issues so i don't even need to buy a windows tablet if i need to run some software when away from home, so they can be useful but agree on backups, as i don't use a data base or anything heavy i just have a 4 bay usb3 hard drive storage unit and run 2 3gig drives in mirror.

[Chrome Prince]

You've got a very smart setup Shaun.
Cloud has it's uses, like you say for hosting and remote access etc.
Keeping a backup of data on the Cloud is also useful, just wouldn't run a large corporation or put bank account or payroll details on it.

Still no word and no files on Cyberhorse, not even a posting on their site that I can see. :(

[demodocus]

The thing that annoys me is that there hasn't been a single word from C****e. Not a scintilla of explanation/apology to clients. Nothing. NO response to emails, their telephone is off the hook.

I've had enough and won't be re-subscribing. I'll write off the balance of my subscription to experience/tax and go elsewhere.

[Chrome Prince]

It wouldn't be so bad if there was some indication of progress, lack of progress.
I can wear it if they say not until next month, but not knowing any timeframe is a bit inconvenient.

[Shaun]

You've got a very smart setup Shaun.
Cloud has it's uses, like you say for hosting and remote access etc.
Keeping a backup of data on the Cloud is also useful, just wouldn't run a large corporation or put bank account or payroll details on it.

Still no word and no files on Cyberhorse, not even a posting on their site that I can see. :(


I have to say i love the fact android has a RDT program that works, there is a Microsoft app but it blows, i even installed it on my phone, i won't do any hard core excel programming but i can monitor everything and i have an On/Off switch on my sheet just in case.

[foggy]

Yes, it is a sure-fire way to lose clients to not give them any info on what is happening. Seriously, they are in the "information" business and this does nothing to develop trust with clients. There is always Racenet and RISA. I guess this just means that I can have a little holiday from punting until I get used to one of these 2 sites formats.

[Chrome Prince]

The phone is off the hook and they aren't answering emails, and I received an invoice for subscription for next month with no mention about the outage at all.
On their own forums, nobody is answering queries either.

The longer this goes on, the more I think the backups don't work and that any future form may be compromised.

The whole thing is a real worry at the moment. If backups are there, should take no more than 24 to 48 hours to have it running and that's being very generous.

[garyf]

The phone is off the hook and they aren't answering emails, and I received an invoice for subscription for next month with no mention about the outage at all.
On their own forums, nobody is answering queries either.

The longer this goes on, the more I think the backups don't work and that any future form may be compromised.

The whole thing is a real worry at the moment. If backups are there, should take no more than 24 to 48 hours to have it running and that's being very generous.Obviously the "ACCOUNTS" department isn't suffering the same fate.http://www.propun.com.au/racing_forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

Cheers.

[blackdog1]

The longer this goes on, the more I think the backups don't work and that any future form may be compromised.

The whole thing is a real worry at the moment. If backups are there, should take no more than 24 to 48 hours to have it running and that's being very generous.Hate to say I told so, but this easy going attitude towards backup was there from the word go.

As you said even if you have to buy a new server box and stick in the backup drives, it shouldn't take more than a day or two.

I personally would swallow my pride and buy the most current data again, it's available from various vendors.
Then they can worry about archived data.

My fear is the same as yours, the data was full of errors when they changed the system a couple of years ago, God knows what will be like this time?

[Shaun]

My fear is the same as yours, the data was full of errors when they changed the system a couple of years ago, God knows what will be like this time?
even though i only used the 3 start form and web scraped that it used to be a bitch to code around the errors.

[blackdog1]

On second thought, there must be some other problem there we are not aware of.
I mean it would have been easy enough to just post the current forms!?

[Raven]

I heard there was a RISA issue this week? Maybe not related

[Chrome Prince]

I don't think they can post the current form, it's more than likely an SQL database with past runs for horses. They link the tracks table, the nominations table and the past run tables to provide the stats and the 5 start or 10 start form. Therefore having the race fields and no other tables, all the career stats and past form will be missing. I may be wrong, but this would explain why it's taking so long, especially if all the links and queries have to be rebuilt. If it's all lost, it may not be back online for weeks, it's a massive job to code it all and then test it and then upload all the data.

Although it's automated, I was offended to receive a renewal invoice, and going by past experiences, I doubt whether there will be any type of discount or allowance for days missed.The least they could have done is to add a note stating when it's expected to be fixed or even an apology we don't know how long it will take.

The stats must be derived as I outlined, because when there is a missing run or 1998 data without full past runs, the stats are incorrect.
So if or when it comes back, it would be prudent to doublecheck all horses to make sure the stats are updated and match past data plus one run.

I think their isp crashed, but can't believe they have no mirror backups to re upload, surely in this day and age when it's a business with hundreds of subscribers....

[Chrome Prince]

As I suspected, just got email from them

"We wish to advise on progress resolving our current service outage.

The problem was caused by a database corruption arising from a server meltdown at our web site hosting company 10 days ago.

We have been rebuilding the form database since then but have had difficulties with corrupted backups.
We believe that we have now identified all these problems and are now in the final stages of creating a new up-to-date database.
We hope to resume normal service early next week.

Sincere apologies to all our clients for this interruption to your service.
When service resumes all subscribers will have 1 month added to their subscription to compensate for the service outage."

Pretty good of them to add a month.

[blackdog1]

received same and good on them but still an early reply and update would've been welcome.

No financial loss on my part as far as wagering goes, I have a second data supplier as well different service but includes the form, but the extra month is welcome.

hopefully they'll be back on line soon

[demodocus]

I'm led to believe it's all bad news. Words like "administration" and "debts" are being bandied about with little prospect of resumption of normal service.

Might be a good time to seek out an alternative data supplier.

[Chrome Prince]

Well, it's very strange there's been no update on progress as the form was supposed to be available early this week. I think it's worse than we thought.

[blackdog1]

Well, it's very strange there's been no update on progress as the form was supposed to be available early this week. I think it's worse than we thought.Funny you should mention it CP I was thinking last night that the extra month extension isn't such a generous offer after all.

I think they will suffer for this mishap because dedicated punters looked elsewhere by now.

[Chrome Prince]

This is all very strange, no zip files a week after the expected fix, no update on progress, and it appears the site has gone very very quiet, with no posts anywhere from admin.

I fear that demodocus could be correct, but if not, most clients would have gone elsewhere by now anyway, so resumption of service now, would really be too late to make it worthwhile anyway.

Just saying.

[Chrome Prince]

Just found out that the news is not good.
Please read the entire extract

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landing/panelSearch.jspx?searchType=OrgAndBusNm&searchText=007447154&_adf.ctrl-state=1b3bom9tyo_22

There could be charges for trading while insolvent and a copy of the email containing mistruths shall be forwarded to the Liquidator. This is actually fraudulent, asking for subscriptions.
The database actually had nothing to do with it!

[UselessBettor]

Wow.

I was not a subscriber but those documents were lodged a month ago.

Crazy stuff.

[enjay]

I wonder if there is any connection with the thread above this one by Rinconpaul.


Enjay

[blackdog1]

I never begrudge people for accessing free data, if it's offered take it.
But I resented the fact that some of us had to pay to access the same as what was offered free.

Either you run a business or a charity.

[blackdog1]

Correction we didn't "have" to pay.

[evajb001]

I was using the cyberhorse form to drop into excel to help me play around with doing ratings or checking ideas and backtesting stuff. Look's like I won't be doing that anymore and will have to find a new source although i've had a look around and can't really find anything as easy to use with the same level of detail as cyberhorse and that has the form backdated as well.

If anyone is aware of something similar that can be imported into excel i'd be very grateful. Highly unlikely these guys will be back up and running given administrators look to have been appointed.

[PaulD01]

Hi All,

After speaking with liquidators office this morning of Cyberhorse Pty Ltd, I can confirm the following:

1. The petitioning creditor was the Australian Taxation Office whom are owed ~ $181,500;

2. On or about 1 day prior to the appointment of the court appointed liquidator, the assets of Cyberhorse Pty Ltd, in particular things such as the customer lists, domains, email addresses, phone numbers, subscriber lists etc were sold to another company Cyberhorse Bloodstock Pty Ltd which is a related party. The liquidator as part of their investigations is looking into the sale of the business to ensure that it was at fair market value.

The good news for Cyberhorse clients is that there may well be a resurrection of the service so that those affected can continue to receive what they have paid for.

[evajb001]

Thanks for the update Paul

[Chrome Prince]

Hi All,

After speaking with liquidators office this morning of Cyberhorse Pty Ltd, I can confirm the following:

1. The petitioning creditor was the Australian Taxation Office whom are owed ~ $181,500;

2. On or about 1 day prior to the appointment of the court appointed liquidator, the assets of Cyberhorse Pty Ltd, in particular things such as the customer lists, domains, email addresses, phone numbers, subscriber lists etc were sold to another company Cyberhorse Bloodstock Pty Ltd which is a related party. The liquidator as part of their investigations is looking into the sale of the business to ensure that it was at fair market value.

The good news for Cyberhorse clients is that there may well be a resurrection of the service so that those affected can continue to receive what they have paid for.

Not in this lifetime.
Racing Victoria has pulled out all funding for the Racehorse Outplacement program.
Bill has failed to advise clients of the truth of the matter, I refer to his email stating the reason for the problem.
Cyberhorse Bloodstock will have to have new Directors, and if the previous Director has any connection whatsoever, I'll not be rejoining.
You cannot sell a business to yourself to avoid a tax debt. It is highly illegal and then start again, otherwise everyone in trouble would do it.
You cannot take subscribers money whilst insolvent, that is fraudulent.
My receipt and invoice does not state it is Cyberhorse Bloodstock at all.
Bill will not repond to emails, phone calls, nor posts on his own forum.
Ergo, this tells the story better than I.

[PaulD01]

Not in this lifetime.
Racing Victoria has pulled out all funding for the Racehorse Outplacement program.
Bill has failed to advise clients of the truth of the matter, I refer to his email stating the reason for the problem.
Cyberhorse Bloodstock will have to have new Directors, and if the previous Director has any connection whatsoever, I'll not be rejoining.
You cannot sell a business to yourself to avoid a tax debt. It is highly illegal and then start again, otherwise everyone in trouble would do it.
You cannot take subscribers money whilst insolvent, that is fraudulent.
My receipt and invoice does not state it is Cyberhorse Bloodstock at all.
Bill will not repond to emails, phone calls, nor posts on his own forum.
Ergo, this tells the story better than I.

Hi CP,

I'm not defending Bill nor Cyberhorse, but simply reporting the facts as they are.

Whether or not there is a legitimate insolvent trading claim, the question is who is going to fund the liquidator to investigate any allegations?

I can also now confirm that I have been advised that the director of Cyberhorse Bloodstock Pty Ltd (CB) is in fact Bill also. As previously flagged and as part of the liquidators investigation, they will look further into the sale of the business assets. If their investigations reveal that they were sold at fair market value then that is where it ends as far as that component of their investigation is concerned. If it wasn't sold at what the liquidator deems to be fair market value then they will either ask Bill to pay more for it or alternatively they can void the sale and seek another buyer whom is willing to pay fair market value. Given the consideration for the acquisition by CB was a relatively small amount of cash with the balance being in the form of an assumption of liabilities of creditors only time will tell. I am also told that as a result of the sale, the subscribers to Cyberhorse are now creditors of CB not Cyberhorse. In that context, I am simply hoping for a favorable outcome for those affected.

[blackdog1]

Whatever happens I've written off the remaining portion of my sub, about $250.

[topsy99]

I think the cause is lost. If it was coming back I think we would know something by now. Is there any other sites that have form available.

[topsy99]

any idea where i can access alternative data.

[lomaca]

any idea where i can access alternative data.if you mean free then Sky form is there, not as comprehensive as Cyber used to be but adequate.


Quite a few paid ones, can I mention them here?

I use Wizard. An other one is promoted by NY. of PP fame.

[topsy99]

dont mind paying after all always paid for cyberhose. will check

[Chrome Prince]

Virtual formguide is right, you pay your subscription and get no form.
Really think this is disgraceful conduct to tell people all will be good and it's just a server problem, when you know you're going under, and taking money after lodging liquidation intentions.
Most of us have been supporters for more than ten years, and to treat clients like that reflects the character of the people behind it.
A simple email apologising, because it's over and beyond his control, thanking subscribers for loyalty and issuing refunds for remainder of subscription would have been appropriate.

[aussielongboat]

if you mean free then Sky form is there, not as comprehensive as Cyber used to be but adequate.


Quite a few paid ones, can I mention them here?

I use Wizard. An other one is promoted by NY. of PP fame.

please mention away as i am also interested in what may be out there,

aussie

[beton]

Virtual formguide is right, you pay your subscription and get no form.
Really think this is disgraceful conduct to tell people all will be good and it's just a server problem, when you know you're going under, and taking money after lodging liquidation intentions.
Most of us have been supporters for more than ten years, and to treat clients like that reflects the character of the people behind it.
A simple email apologising, because it's over and beyond his control, thanking subscribers for loyalty and issuing refunds for remainder of subscription would have been appropriate.When a company is insolvent they should cease trading immediately that they become aware that they cannot pay their commitments. They cease or call in administrators. If it can be shown that they have continued to trade past this date (take subscriptions etc) then the directors position changes from being personally protected by companies laws, to a position of being personally liable for additional debts. This should make them personally liable in returning these subscriptions. The lists etc and programs and like are company property and the liquidator can overturn any dispersement of company assets within six months of becoming insolvent. Phoenix Rising

[topsy99]

do you know if scraping the names off available sites e.g. tab lists is against any rules.

e.g. a program that downloads the horse names in each race only.

so that they can be put thru a black book data base for matching.

[evajb001]

You can scrape horse names off almost any form site or TAB with relative ease, but i'm not sure why you'd want to do it for blackbook purposes. Most betting agencies allow you to mark black bookers on their site and you automatically get email notifications anyhow.

[topsy99]

thanks. Automation is why. Run all the names in a race meeting at once through a data base and print out the matches.

I was talking to a former betfair person and he thought websites didnt like scraping and may actually change formats to stop it. cant see why it would be worthwhile doing that to foil punters.

[blackdog1]

I was talking to a former betfair person and he thought websites didnt like scraping and may actually change formats to stop it. cant see why it would be worthwhile doing that to foil punters.The answer to your query is very simple, we all pay for data quantity.
I'm sure you are familiar with your own download limit?

If you access a website by Excel or other programmes you are using the data from that website. It all counts to their data limit.

This was the primary reason TabCorp changed their webpage.
The fact that the same result could have been achieved by simpler means never occurred to them, TAB never does anything simple if there is away to complicate it.

[topsy99]

all i need is an alphabetical list that appears or used to appear in the sportsman.

i notice that two websites in England have this facility but cant find one in australia.

paying a fee isnt a problem.

[beton]

I get the prepost from a site with 2 in the middleTakes 2 minutes max. goes to one meeting and loads the races in order then the next meeting. Piece of cake. gathers all the data.

[topsy99]

what is the site.? would like to have a look at it.

regards

[enjay]

Hi Topsy99

Could you send me an email please exandx at hotmail dot com.

Thanks

[beton]

what is the site.? would like to have a look at it.

regardsWay2Bet

[topsy99]

have had my program rewritten. can click an icon and the program via html goes into the internet picks up the next 6 days races ANZ and works my database/system and saves to html and brings the results up on screen .

no costs no work other than keeping the database up to date. the data base is stored on google drive now.


great result.

[Barny]

piggybacking ....shame the mods pulled my post a fortnight ago re: Neon Energy. Gunna be a multi-millionaire or destitute!

[letsbet]

just wondering if anyone had collected the zip files from the last few years

when I was a member I collected 2008-April 2012

I am after the zips from May 2012 to when the site went down, f anyone has them and is willing to pass them on let me know
smithie958 at gmail ddot com

cheers

[blackdog1]

just wondering if anyone had collected the zip files from the last few years

when I was a member I collected 2008-April 2012

I am after the zips from May 2012 to when the site went down, f anyone has them and is willing to pass them on let me know
smithie958 at gmail ddot com

cheersdon't have the zips anymore but I have the form/horse/race files in similar format as Neil's but in Access not dbf can convert to Excel.
if any good let me know can send a sample.

[letsbet]

don't have the zips anymore but I have the form/horse/race files in similar format as Neil's but in Access not dbf can convert to Excel.
if any good let me know can send a sample.

thanks blackdog, if you can send an Excel sample that would be great... is May 2012 possible? to be sure I can use it (don't foresee why not)
cheers
smithie958 at gmail dot com

[blackdog1]

thanks blackdog, if you can send an Excel sample that would be great... is May 2012 possible? to be sure I can use it (don't foresee why not)
cheers
smithie958 at gmail dot comsent

[topsy99]

i probably have them somewhere let me know if you want me to have a search for them

[letsbet]

thanks topsy but blackdog already sorted me out :)

[letsbet]

i probably have them somewhere let me know if you want me to have a search for them

hey topsy, I am keen to get hold of these if you have them
I am after 1st May 2012 until they went down.. late November 2013
cheers

[topsy99]

sorry havent been on for awhile. will gather up the ones you want and tell you when am ready to send.

[letsbet]

sorry havent been on for awhile. will gather up the ones you want and tell you when am ready to send.

topsy... it's ok
I subbed to bestform and got the missing data
thanks for your offer

[jbsplace1]

Guys,

What are the chances of getting these files from 2012 through to current.

Would be greatley appreciated.

jbsplace at tpg dot com dot au

[letsbet]

Guys,

What are the chances of getting these files from 2012 through to current.

Would be greatley appreciated.

jbsplace at tpg dot com dot au

dude
get the free bet selector program
then subscribe for 1 month to bestform
you can get all the files back to 2008 and they are in excellent format
cheap, easy and perfect

[blackdog1]

Oi letsbet, you said cyber was online again, tried this morning several times out of curiosity but "Server not found"

No, they didn't miss out on my sub resumption.

[letsbet]

Oi letsbet, you said cyber was online again, tried this morning several times out of curiosity but "Server not found"

No, they didn't miss out on my sub resumption.

it was there the last week... now gone again!

[demodocus]

Received an email from "David" o'nite advising that he's putting the VFG back on line and that as a previous subscriber I'll be entitled to a discount. WOW!!! I'll let it run for a year or two and then reconsider.

[topsy99]

i downloaded some files. the prefix has changed and they now unpack to tvx rather than form.

this means a change of programming. I will probably stay with my new program and it is free.

[topsy99]

does jbsplace still want zip files.

[Vortech]

Received an email from "David" o'nite advising that he's putting the VFG back on line and that as a previous subscriber I'll be entitled to a discount. WOW!!! I'll let it run for a year or two and then reconsider.
I suppose the reasons for the downtime was due to ill health!

[enjay]

I received email as well. They can go without me.

You must be psychic Vortech. Email in part:-

As you are a former Virtual Form Guide subscriber we are pleased to advise that the service is back online.
Technical problems compounded by the proprietors ill health caused the Virtual Form Guide to be suspended a few months ago.

Enjay.

[blackdog1]

What is really silly, is that coming clean and say, sorry "we screwed-up we'll be back on line soon as we can", would've worked for me and many others I suppose.

"Ill health" oldest excuse in the books.

[jazzy]

If you're running a business and want it to continue, "ill health" doesn't cut it anyway. Either get your employee(s) to run it or get someone in who can.

Perhaps the "ill health" was alzheimers - kept on forgetting to do the tax return

[topsy99]

it will mean software changes for me as the horses\form folder will have changed to horses\tvx.

[Chrome Prince]

It's simply an attempt at coverup, anyone with knowledge of what actually happened realizes it's another attempt to save sinking ship.

[PaulD01]

These are the facts.

The company went into liquidation. I spoke personally with the liquidator in Melbourne and they advised the major creditor was the Australian Taxation Office whom I believe were owed in the vicinity of circa $180k.

The business assets and other IP was sold to a related party (see Corporations Act 2001 Cth.) if you want to know more about what that means. Essentially Bill Saunders who was the director was also connected with the purchaser. The sale proceeds was for the most part made up of an assumption of certain liabilities but not the ATO debt. Very little if any cash changed hands.

I am not aware whether or not the business has been since on sold to the new owners or whether they are the same that purchased the assets from the liquidator.

I reason I know this is simple. We were interested parties in purchasing some or all the assets.

[jbsplace1]

Topsy would still like files if you have them.

May I ask what the new system you are talking about??? And it is free?

Cheers

[demodocus]

From the "new" enterprise ......

"I have had to involve Bill Saunders in the new company as he developed
much of the software and knows the requirements of the old subscriber
base."

"We have no responsibility to refund previous subscribers"

"people have had about 6 weeks of free data already
which I think is an indication of our sincerity."

[Chrome Prince]

I thought he was too ill to be involved, after all, three months plus with no contact, he must be bed ridden and unable to type.
What do the requirements of the old subscriber base have to do with anything if there is no responsibility to refund old subscribers?

Bill is digging a deeper hole than he knows with this twaddle!

Who exactly has had 6 weeks of free data?
The data is held on Bill's servers, supplied by Bill's IP address.
This "new" company has not provided free anything.

Whoops I forgot, they're one in the same :(

Why not just be upfront, why not just say, sorry folks I messed up ATO pressures and all that, too much for me, had to withdraw fro a while. But I'm back now and I will supply free data for a while as an apology.

I'm sure most would understand.

But this smoke and mirrors rubbish is really destroying all traces of credibility.

Let's never forget that the initial excuse was data corruption.
Enough said!

[topsy99]

are you on facebook.

[topsy99]

formwalker@gmail.com

[ixlat0]

everything appears to be back to normal -- or should I still be cautious re subscription? -- anybody have an update?

have the best day!

[topsy99]

jbsplace i put up email if you wanted any information.