avoiding banned account

[firehorse]

Well,
I have a 82% place bet strike rate
What kind of strike rate is needed to keep everyone greased up ?
Like, I bet 10 horses and 8.2 win

How much do I need to lose to keep the bookies happy

I'm thinking like they get 3k and I get 3k so everyone is happy

Any thoughts on how much wins I get vs the wins (my losses) I get ?

I have been warned and I need to send more money to the bookies to keep my account

The state bookies will not tell me

[Puntz]

Impartial suggestion to consider.
------,

Sacrificial Bets = # % of Winning Profits, but don't make it "law", make it a free choice.

In other words, start at 1 percent of winning profits,
( 100 units profit, bet 1 unit), on a runner that is sure to lose.
That may keep them happy.

One may improvise on the scales to raise or lower their percents.

It's the same principle in mechanical engineering. Your own vehicle has "sacrificial metals" implemented in various situations.
For example; a thermostat housing is made of an alloy weaker than the entire engine's alloy/s. The reason is so the inevitable corrosion will attack the weakest link first.
So it's cheaper to replace the thermostat housing than the entire engine block due to corrosion.

Well, it's "cheaper" to sacrifice part of your profit than to have the entire account closed and gain no profit.

[Management]

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[firehorse]

Thanks Puntz

I will contact Guy

thanks guys

[aussielongboat]

Well,
I have a 82% place bet strike rate
What kind of strike rate is needed to keep everyone greased up ?
Like, I bet 10 horses and 8.2 win

How much do I need to lose to keep the bookies happy

I'm thinking like they get 3k and I get 3k so everyone is happy

Any thoughts on how much wins I get vs the wins (my losses) I get ?

I have been warned and I need to send more money to the bookies to keep my account

The state bookies will not tell me

I have read a few places that unless you are losing more than 6% on your turnover they will soon restrict you.

[Pat123]

I've just thought of something.

Is it now virtually impossible for a corporate to close a legitimate punter's account?

With these new NSW min bet rules, does this essentially mean bookmakers can't ban at all anymore (for legitimate punters i.e. being not a commercially viable customer isn't a reason for banning).

If a punter now has his/her account closed they can lodge a complaint and refer to the clause in the nsw rules even if he/she wasn't even betting or planning to bet on nsw races.

Thoughts?

[firehorse]

********sacks

I could make a fortune on those concepts alone..

Hey, anyone happy to make 2% a day ???????????

[Mark]

Well done Ladbrokes. Back one winner, yes that's right, 1 winner, and you're gone. Fleas on the racing industry.

[stugots]

Banned or limited Mark?

[Pat123]

If they closed your account like me don't worry, they'll be obligated to re-open it come Sept 1st and there's no way they can get around it.

[Mark]

Effectively banned stugots. Login and no fixed odds.
I wish I was a sure as you Pat.

[Pat123]

Don't worry Mark, it's one of the main clauses under the new rules. If they want to offer NSW racing they literally have no choice.

[stugots]

They wont just roll over Pat - IMHO they have been given wiggle room with those 'undisclosed bowlers' etc provisions & it then up to the account holder to complain & prove to RNSW that they are legit.

How I wonder does one prove they are not working in collusion with other punters? & what is to stop every corp that doesn't want your business refusing your business on those grounds & only letting you on when you have gone through all the time & bother of somehow proving you are just an above average/lucky punter?

Then again I might just be a cynical so & so, & come Sept 1st it will be a brand new day....have to excuse me now as big pink pig just flew by my window...

[Chrome Prince]

Totally agree stugots, the new name for online bookies...."The Wiggles"

[Pat123]

Those sly dogs. How on earth do they prove (or do they even have to) that you're a bowler and vice versa that you're not?

[Chrome Prince]

It'll all get lost in the red tape, account disabled "pending enquiry".
I dare say the burden of proof will be on the account holder, and how do you prove you're not part of something bigger?

[The Ocho]

I suppose someone may take them to court as then it is up to them to prove that you are a bowler or working in collusion rather than a person trying to prove they are not to an inquiry.

[evajb001]

What about people that subscribe to a tipping/selection service and use those picks to place bets. Could the bookies try and label them simply as bowlers? Your not making the selections yourself and although the winnings stay with you, your paying someone else for the service. They might try and use that as a way out as well?

I too highly doubt they will just rollover and take it, the only way that could possibly occur is if all states were implementing a similar set of rules and were working together to allow all people the chance to get on in every state. Until that happens and its a concerted effort to stop the bookies banning/limiting anyone remotely profitable then they will put up a fight and use any loopholes necessary to make sure winning punters are forced to get their bets on elsewhere.

[Mark]

I do feel a little more confident with this reply from Racing NSW.
The question was regarding current accounts that have been restricted or closed.


Dear Mr M,



As you are aware the effective date of the Minimum Bet Limits under Racing NSW’s Race Field Information Use Approval Standard Conditions attached to the Wagering Operator’s approval, is the 1st September 2014.

The Standard Conditions includes Clauses which specifies that an Approved Wagering Operator cannot refuse to open a betting account or cannot close a betting account to avoid compliance with the Minimum Bet Limits.

If on or after the 1 September 2014 you are unable to open a betting account you may refer the matter to Racing NSW for review through the Complaints process which will be operating from that date.

[firehorse]

Yeah sweet

The TAB folks at the TAB give me dirty looks, but I understand

They run around the pub looking for cash to pay me

Thats disgusting, since they T.O thousands a day

And now I have to use this stupid tatts card and cant just plop cash anymore

They have a record of the account

where are we going ? where are we going to bet happily knowing there's no slave trading ? they now know now everyone....

and that's after 15% for them before I even get outta bed....

tight****sses

really tight

[Pat123]

There's only a couple of bookmakers that will still take bets from long term winners. Pinnacblebet will join them very shortly - that should be interesting.

[firehorse]

Yeah uh ha

But for how long ?

Are they coveting their bets or ours ?

And that is the answer, when can you get your payouts without the paperwork ?

If your in biz to make money why wouldn't you cover your losses appropriately ?

So who determines winning bets appropriately ?

Maybe the place tote will disappear ???

[Pat123]

I don't know, I never use tote.

[firehorse]

And so what do you use ?

[stugots]

reminded me of an old mate at a pub tab that used to double down on keno heads or tails until he won or went broke, plenty of times they would pay him the $1000 win by cheque even though almost all of that $1000 was the money he had just used to double down!

would call out the manager each time & go through the same rigmarole, security reasons blah blah they dont pay cash above certain limits.

i would just sit there drink my beer & laugh at em all.

[PaulD01]

I do feel a little more confident with this reply from Racing NSW.
The question was regarding current accounts that have been restricted or closed.


Dear Mr M,



As you are aware the effective date of the Minimum Bet Limits under Racing NSW’s Race Field Information Use Approval Standard Conditions attached to the Wagering Operator’s approval, is the 1st September 2014.

The Standard Conditions includes Clauses which specifies that an Approved Wagering Operator cannot refuse to open a betting account or cannot close a betting account to avoid compliance with the Minimum Bet Limits.

If on or after the 1 September 2014 you are unable to open a betting account you may refer the matter to Racing NSW for review through the Complaints process which will be operating from that date.

Hi Mark

In reference to your post, two of the largest corporates that I won't name will allow you to open an account but allowing you to bet is another thing. At least that is the inside feedback that I'm getting.

[Rinconpaul]

There's only a couple of bookmakers that will still take bets from long term winners. Pinnacblebet will join them very shortly - that should be interesting.

I'm trying to use logic as to why Pinnacle is going to be your saviour Pat. They are going to attract all the pro punters and arbers right? So they'll all be winning more than lose, right? So where's the coin coming from to pay them. A lot of people need to be losing. They're all the recreational punters, right? What makes you think they'll ignore the massive advertising, bonuses, incentives that they are bombarded with in every form of media, that the bookie/tote juggernaut sponsors , and drop that for Pinnacle?

Pinnacle's advertising budget would be minuscule in comparison. I can't make a case for the business model.

[FredTheMug]

I'm trying to use logic as to why Pinnacle is going to be your saviour Pat. They are going to attract all the pro punters and arbers right?

I couldn't agree more. Taking on all the pros means that they'll be just as sharp as Betfair. Any arbs between Betfair and Pinnacle will be for pennies, so you'd still need a regular, un-sharp bookie to take the other side without banning you.

Pat have you tried arbing sports on Pinnacle UK?

[Chrome Prince]

The money will come from the inbuilt 2% edge and their fixed prices will enable them to lay off any liability on Betfair. They will also be controlling this just as they do with the sports markets.
Showing how much is available to bet at the current odds and working from there.
They are also offering all the traditional bookies products.
At only 2% takeout, why wouldn't a lot of Betfair users move across as well.
Word travels fast in the bookie game, you don't need to advertise if you have a better product unless it's to attract mugs.
I remember first hearing about Betfair long before I saw any banner ad or commercial and certainly before they hit Australian shores.
If they don't ban short term winners, they will certainly get a reputation and attract those which are still losers, but cannot get a bet on because of one or two lucky bets.