racing industry thoughts

[Every Topic]

I have promised to do this for a while so here goes, my thoughts on what the racing industry could do to become more attractive...

firstly, I am no expert on the horse racing, but I have been involved in many ways in quite a few sports.
Every time I turn on Sky Racing or pick up a racing newspaper the stories are about problems in the industry - I include trots and greyhounds in these general comments where applicable but am primarily focusing on thoroughbred racing.

Every day there are races, and they go unnoticed by all except a few thousand punters.
If you walked down the street and asked a cross section of our community to name a current race horse, or pacer, or g'hound you would get blank stares. Yet the same people could name a football player or swimmer.

Racing is a lot like one day cricket - there is just an endless procession of meaningless races, put together using a hopelessly inept class system.

who is the fastest race horse in Australia, who holds the 1000metre record??
who is the 1600m champion in Australia??
whats the world record for the two mile??

sport is about achievement, its about having a target that you aim at and try to achieve. we all follow football because it has an understandable structure. the same teams play each other and there is an overall winner at the end of the year.

racing doesnt do this.

we all get excited by the swimming, we sit on the edge of our seats watching "Thorpy" attack an imaginary world record line across our screens.
racing doesnt do this either.

the winner of race one at Sandown today just wins a race - they dont win points towards a premiership, they dont progess towards a semi final, they are not trying to break a record.
the race isnt part of an Australian steeplechase championship, or an interstate battle, its just a race.

and this is what racing is like week after week except for a few feature races all owned and operated by seperate entities with no consistent approach.

Most race clubs around Australia are struggling, yet in part the problem is the way they put together their race cards.

Here is a list of things I would hope the race clubs would consider in order to attract greater interest, not all of them may be viable, some might seem off the planet. But its worth a try rather than an endless procession of maiden races.

1. the class system is a shambles. Today there is a horse running its second race in a class 3 race after winning a maiden. Why on earth should that be allowed happen? The commentators mentioned another horse that had made its debut in a listed race. Every horse should have to start in a country maiden and I would suggest that the first three in any maiden automatically graduate to class 1 races ONLY and that they can only run in a class 2 race after 6 places in the lower class and then use this system to work through the grades.
You should not be able to run out of your class and if there are not enough class 1's in the area then a combined class 1/2 race could be held.
Other than this the only time the classes should be mixed are for age races but you should have to start as a maiden and work out of that grade before running age races.

2. thoroughbred racing uses weights to handicap which is a little meaningless to the public - you cant see weight. I would like to see some races run with a distance handicap.
This might mean you cant run from barriers, but I assume that once upon a time all races commenced without barriers anyhow, so its nothing new. It would be visually more exciting to see a horse have to chase the others from 100 metres behind - as it is in harness racing.

3.records
I'd like to see more emphasis on records, even have record attempts with just two or three runners. Im sure an innovative TAB could handle this with bets placed on the time rather than the winner.
there are track records, state records, national and world records - why dont our best horses try to beat these marks?
Record breaking creates excitement.

4. state and national championships -
racing does not appear to have such events.
why arent there points championships with each race counting towards an annual title?
why arent there heats for the State 1000m championship with the State winners racing for a national title.
why arent there national 3yo, 4yo etc championships with regional and state heats and semi finals etc??

5. I would also like to see the racing industry as a whole, not just some rich pr**k in Sydney or Melbourne, construct and own a national sprint raceway - a 1000 metre straight track, indoors with a non grass surface so it can be used three or four times a week, can provide the fans with comfort in all seasons, can operate day or night and provide a consistent world class, totally dry and completely flat surface for sprint racing.
Imagine the public interest if tonight a group of horses were making a run at the world record for the 1000metres and you could watch the imaginary line just ahead or behind them??

6. interstate rivalry - Australians thrive on interstate rivalry yet the racing industry generally ignores this rich hotbed of interest.Why arent there races to win a place on the State team to do battle with another State??
Why isnt there a State teams championship each year with a 10 race card, 2 competitors from each State in every race and points that go to finding a winner for the day.

7. finally, if the average country card is going to be stacked with meaningless races then I would prefer to see races that are at least fun and exciting.
Lets see some real innovation and fun at the races.
Why not get rid of the barriers sometimes and have standing starts? Why not get the jockeys to try an old fashioned "grand prix" style start where they run across the track and jump onto their mount and race off??
Why not have shorter sprints of, lets say, 500m with heats and finals on the same day??

There is plenty that the racing industry could be doing to attract the public attention, rather than just relying on a couple of big feature races once a year.

The racing industry makes its money by getting us to bet on races. I believe we would bet on more races if there was greater consistency in the classes, and more fun in the races and if more races had meaning because they were part of a bigger picture we would follow the action, the media would report it.

anyhow, just a few thoughts :smile:

see ya
Every Topic

[Every Topic]

I forgot to add that there is no point telling me I'm mad -
I know :smile:

see ya
Every Topic

[umrum]

i'm going to tell you anyway.

your mad.

but at least your having a crack.

[DR RON]

Good post, Racing is, with the exception of feature races quite boring if youre not having a bet.
Perhaps if the bookies could be just a little more generous, people might be tempted to brave the elements and go to the track rather than sitting in the pub. (Not that sitting in a pub is a bad thing!!!)
The bookies complain about many things but they are their own worst enemy.

[Chrome Prince]

On 2003-09-03 14:04, Every Topic wrote:
Why not get rid of the barriers sometimes and have standing starts? Why not get the jockeys to try an old fashioned "grand prix" style start where they run across the track and jump onto their mount and race off??
Why not have shorter sprints of, lets say, 500m with heats and finals on the same day??


:lol:

I'd love to see it as a spectacle, but who holds the horse, and what would happen in Darren Beadman or Damien Oliver broke an ankle trying to mount their steeds?

As far as your other comments go, racing is a great spectacle for me, because of my keen interest.

The perception by the general public is that horseracing equals gambling.
That's the fundamental difference between racing and most other sports.

There are gamblers (and Australia has a larger percentage than a lot of other countries) and non gamblers.
For non gamblers, racing offers nothing to speak of at this point. However, I regard our top jockeys as great athletes and just love a ding dong battle between two hoops playing cat and mouse or head to head as they approach the line.

Racing caters for gamblers and on rare occasions, they have family days and associated events for kids, but I'm guessing that the it's only the punters in general who bring their families to these events.

Why aren't there racing shows on commercial television?
Because the audience is simply not there to warrant it.
In a previous life, I worked in the radio industry and looked into ratings for both t.v. and radio.
That's why the big Spring carnivals are televised, but all racing shows and indeed most Saturday race coverage has been shelved.
SKY now handles and is industry focused.

SKY is different to commercial television, in that all viewers who watch SKY, switch it on because they enjoy a punt and sports in general.

However, commercial TV is not focused on racing or the punter.

You put up some interesting ideas, and I agree with your take on classes and racing within your own class etc.

[umrum]

i don't think racing is boring at all.

i used to go with my old man when i was a 4 and 5yo and loved it.

as for the grand prix style- thats ridiculous- maybe at a bush meeting or rodeo but not in metro meetings.

500 metre races are too short. dog races are over 500 metres and they have less interest in them than gallops and trots.

i think they are fine the way they are.

[becareful]

I'm probably mad too because I think you actually have some good ideas there ET :grin:

As Chrome Prince has noted their is a general perception that racing=gambling and I think that is basically true. I don't know anybody who does not gamble who would sit down and watch a race just for fun (with the obvious exception of the Melbourne Cup) yet they will sit down and watch the Swimming championships. But what is the difference? Swimming is no more exciting as a spectator sport than horse racing - everyone looks the same in the water, there is no great spectacle or tactics involved (well, very little that is obvious to the viewer anyway). The only difference is there is interstate or international competition involved.

I think the idea of state/national (and down the track international) championships would be something that can build up public interest in the sport. You could easily run competitions that fed into each other - eg. several venues round the state have a series of races over different distances/sexes eg "1500m C&G race", "1000M F&M Race" one week. The next week the top 2 from each venue go to the state finals and the top 2 from that go the national final a few weeks later. National champion in each distance/sex category gets a big paycheque!

Also I love the idea of using distance or time handicaps rather than weight. I am sure with current technology it would be simple to construct a barrier where the individual gates opened at different times so that you could use a time handicap and watch the better horses chase down the slower ones. This would probably work best with straight races and I imagine it would be necessary to space the individual barriers wider (and probably block them in to a certain extent) so the horses aren't distracted by the earlier starts. Alternatively individual barriers could be constructed to allow distance handicaps. Obviously you wouldn't do this at small country clubs but the big metro clubs could certainly afford these "hi-tech" barriers and the racing would be fantastic!

Of course can't see any of this happening - the racing authorities will continue to dish up the same old stuff week after week and wonder why the crowds keep shrinking and the betting dollars keep drifting away to other sports where you can make your money and get something interesting to watch at the same time!

[umrum]

Also I love the idea of using distance or time handicaps rather than weight. I am sure with current technology it would be simple to construct a barrier where the individual gates opened at different times so that you could use a time handicap and watch the better horses chase down the slower ones. This would probably work best with straight races and I imagine it would be necessary to space the individual barriers wider (and probably block them in to a certain extent) so the horses aren't distracted by the earlier starts. Alternatively individual barriers could be constructed to allow distance handicaps. Obviously you wouldn't do this at small country clubs but the big metro clubs could certainly afford these "hi-tech" barriers and the racing would be fantastic!

---------
sorry fellas i hate this idea.

dont mind the state champs idea.

i think swimming is the most boring mainstream sport. i would much rather watch racing that i wasnt gambling on.

also i think your right in your comment that racing equals gambling. But why do people have a problem with gambling. It's up to the individual to spend their cash.

some will blow it at myers, some will drink it away and some will buy drugs or whatever. if managed gambling is not a problem but rather a great pastime especially having a punt on the gallops.

i dont think you can change general public opinion. so you wont be able to improve racing.

I agree that there are too many meaningless races particularly in qld. but then again its the 3rd biggest industry in Oz so it creates thousands of jobs,.

cheers

[becareful]

Umrum,

I don't really like swimming either - just using it to illustrate that there are sports with apparantly very little spectator value that have been made to appeal to the general public! I also don't have a problem with people gambling BUT unless racing makes some changes it is going to be in serious trouble as more people spend their gambling dollars elsewhere. The problem for racing is that currently if the gamblers go elsewhere the sport is dead because it relies almost exclusively on the gambling $$$ for survival. A year ago my gambling "spend" was 99% racing, 1% sports (the occassional punt on a footy match) - now it is 75% sports (mainly tennis), 25% racing. Why? Tennis, to me, is more interesting, more predictable and the bookie margin is smaller so it's easier to make money (with the help of the propunter package). It is easy to understand the rules of Tennis, they are generally enforced equally and there is a regular circuit with the same players playing each week. In racing we have too many horses racing in too many races with a stewards that seem to be very reluctant to enforce the rules.

One thing that would certainly help is a clear class structure as ET posted - each horse should start at the bottom and work their way up with a certain standard needed to move to the next class and the classes should be the SAME Australia-wide. If a horse fails to perform in their current class then they should be "demoted" back to the previous class. Horses should not even be able to start in an actual race until they have met a minimum time standard at a barrier trial.

As to changing public opinion - of course you can it just takes time. If you start putting forward a consistant sport with interesting features you will attract back the disenchanted fans and they will bring their friends with them - if you don't do anything the industry will probably die eventually as people take their money elsewhere. It is not like the old days where horse racing had a virtual monopoly on the gambling market for the average person - now you can bet on practically every sport - (even Chess!) - so racing has to start competing for the public interest.

[Every Topic]

speaking of distance handicaps, I noticed that one horse gave himself a 15 length handicap by not leaving the stalls today - and he nearly got them on the line, missed by an absolute poofteenth of an inch !

see ya
Every Topic

[becareful]

For proof of the ability to change public opinion when it comes to sport you have to look no further than AFL. Back when the "Swans" were South Melbourne apparantly nobody in Sydney had even heard of AFL (or VFL as it was then!) and you would have been lucky to attract a crowd of a few thousand people to a match (and all probably would have been ex-Melbourne residents). A few weeks ago there was a crowd of 80,000+ at a Swans match in Sydney - probably more than attended ALL the NRL games played in Sydney that weekend!

[Every Topic]

BC, the class system amazes me - how the industry puts up with it is beyond belief.

not only do consistent classes make for fairer racing but having distinct classes allows people to develop a following for horses and understand the sport.

as for State and national championships - imagine what it would do for racing if every horse entering the one million dollar national sprint championship must first qualify through a heat at a country track.All the stars around the country would have to make the pilgrimage to small regional tracks bringing elite racing, for a day to Wagga, and Bunbury, and Mildura etc..
and then you have semi finals in the city before a State final and then a rotating national final.

if this was repeated for every major national championship, of which there could be many given the different ages, distance and sex combinations you suddenly have injected some pretty exciting racing into the calendar Australia wide.

as for interstate rivalry - South Australians love to beat Victorians at sport, any sport.
How many brain cells does an administrator need to have to recognise this and arrange for special interstate meets - you get a sponsor to put up a trophy, name it after some common and famous identity and once a year get all the Vics to come to Adelaide for a State vs State epic and then next year you return the favour in Melbourne so that you create a Bledisloe Cup like fixture with the winning State enjoying bragging rights for 12 months.
Surely thats better than having an anonymous 8 race card at Cheltenham this weekend!?!?!
You could even tie in the harness and greyhound people for a massive promotion over the weekend.

The other point to all of this is, at the moment racing makes its money from punters.
If it provided racing with more meaning for the spectator it could turn racing into a TV event and then you are talking big dollars.

not nuclear science, but beyond the reach of the air heads who run the sport.

see ya
Every Topic

[umrum]

On 2003-09-03 16:36, becareful wrote:
For proof of the ability to change public opinion when it comes to sport you have to look no further than AFL. Back when the "Swans" were South Melbourne apparantly nobody in Sydney had even heard of AFL (or VFL as it was then!) and you would have been lucky to attract a crowd of a few thousand people to a match (and all probably would have been ex-Melbourne residents). A few weeks ago there was a crowd of 80,000+ at a Swans match in Sydney - probably more than attended ALL the NRL games played in Sydney that weekend!



it doesnt have the stigma of gambling though.

i agree that public opinion can be swayed but
can racing attract a crowd. i dont know.

Though if you look at spring carnival - over 100 000 people every day of the carnival. that's a big interest isn't it?

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2003-09-15 22:13 ]</font>

[umrum]

as for State and national championships - imagine what it would do for racing if every horse entering the one million dollar national sprint championship must first qualify through a heat at a country track.All the stars around the country would have to make the pilgrimage to small regional tracks bringing elite racing, for a day to Wagga, and Bunbury, and Mildura etc..
and then you have semi finals in the city

....

prize money doesnt mean good horses will go.

look at the perth cup when it was a 1 million dollar racxe also the railway stakes is worth the same amount as the emirates mile and i dare say is an easier race yet attracts few if any inter state entries

[Every Topic]

umrum, allow me to explain further.

imagine we are to hold a 1 million dollar 1000m national sprint title. its an open event, the fastest horse wins.

every state gets to send two runners, expenses paid, for a field of 12 horses.

if you are in Perth and you want your horse to enter, the only way you can do so is by entering a heat in Northam or York or Bunbury etc..
from those heats the top 3 or 4 would go to semi finals in Perth followed by a final in Perth. Then the top two go off to the national final.

and, by using this method, you bring the best horses in Perth to Northam etc...
which helps attract people on those days to country racing.

of course every state would enter because you have a free ticket into the final for two horses !

the other advantage of working like this is that people in Tassie, WA ,SA etc all have an interest in the national title from an interstate rivalry point of view. you suddenly increase dramatically your potential audience, what might have been a local Sydney or Melbourne event becomes a nationwide event with the Perth media reporting X and Y's chances, the Adelaide media reporting Z and A's etc...

see ya
Every Topic

[umrum]

right. makes a bit more sense.

not a bad idea! would need to be marketed but could work on tv.

having said that i like having carnivals with all the best horses racing each other.
i wouldnt mind seeing triple crowns being re introduced and bonuses offered for winners.

As for making it appeal to a tv audience i have no idea. Bring back phar lap!

[tragic]

you ponder how to make racing more interesting to the general public i contend its near impossible no matter how inovative you might try to be you compare it to swimming as an example ok on the telly a couple of times a year the viewers know thorpe perkins and the other guns at the end of a race will be right in the finnish every time just about no exception real nail bitting stuff exciting to watch same for tennis but who wants to watch the maidens play the rest of the year? icontend nobody same thing for racing the melb cup on telly very sucsessful why? everybody in oz has a nag running for them not because racing interests them its the hype the thing you do race over no more interest till the hype next year you tell me a horse that will win or be in a photo finish race after race like thorpe to keep your interest there aint none most punters dont give a stuff about the races they treat it like lotto put their bets on then go fishing or the footy every now and then you get a nag like northerly to spark some interest but the only good it does is give the lotto players a banker for their quadies

[Dale]

Every Topic,

There is no way a top line horse worth a million or more dollars would step foot on a lesser track in order to qualify for a national race,the connections would not allow it.

Look at todays Murray Bridge track and the near fatal accident a patch of clover almost caused,who would risk their expensive horse on a track like that.

I like the idea of straight track indoor racing though and if you could have distance upto 1600m it might be a winner.

[Waylea]

Well this is thought provoking ideas ET Ive had a job taking it all in, to much to digest in one go,however did you manage to type so much would have taken me days? you have certainly created a lot of responces!At the end of the day horse racing is just a group of trainers/owners who think there horse is quicker than anybody elses over a set distance,we just bet on the expected outcome??? The buzz for me in racing comes when you pick an outside horse thats wins when all these so called experts tell you it cant,present company excepted.Yes we can glamorise the sport with your ideas but the basics still remain making money for all concerned.

[NANOOK]

The TAB has a lot to do with it as well. If TABcorp gets its way they'll determine what, where and the type of races we'll bet on. 5 or so years ago no sunday racing, up till about 12 months ago sunday racing ended at about 2 or 3:00 WA time now it's 7/8:00. TOO MUCH RACING!!

Why would new people or even regular punters bother going to the track when better facilities and comfort are offered at pubtabs. A few years ago Ascot: Admittance $6-10, racebook $2.00, Can of light beer +$4.00, crappy tasting hamburger $6.00. There's $16.00 minimum 1 person and you haven't even had a bet yet. Unlike footy racing is not seasonal if they want crowds/families every week raceclubs have to do more to attract people.

Some of the ideas about actual racing are good but ESTABLISHMENTS are slower than a nudist trying to climb a barbwire fence when it comes to ....CHANGE.(Ahhh scarey)

Cheers

[Every Topic]

tragic - my class system would eliminate many maiden races as more horses would get out of the maiden area quicker and there would be incentive to race at ones best to get out of class 1.
the footy attracts people because its consistent, racing isnt.
we need to see more horses winning race after race - this is what people notice.It builds up an aura, the current system is obsessed with producing so many jumbled races that very few horses put together a winning streak.
I suspect this is encouraged by the bookmakers, who obviously dont want favourites winning all the time.

I dont think the problem is that there is too much racing, there is just too much meaningless racing - it just needs structure.

Nanook - dont get me started on what the TAB does :smile:

they attract massive revenues yet have hopeless websites, some so slow you die before the bet is processed.
I am all in favour of the TAB, because they have no reason to want crooked racing, they just want lots of it.

but... they dont seem to understand supply and demand very well.
the racing industry gets its money from TAB turnover, the more money invested on the TAB the more the industry gets.

you dont have to read much of this forum to hear people say they dont bet on the place, or they dont bet on harness and greyhound for the place because of the collapsing price.
the TAB's should fix this because they would increase turnover.

I would suggest the introduction of 2 mechanisms - I am not an expert on the TAB but I believe they could do this.

1) place betting on the trots and dogs sees a deluge of money in the last minutes. I would like to see the TAB's limit bets to less than $100 over the final 5 minutes so that if bookies are using the system they have to get their money in 5 minutes before go or not use the TAB. Small punters are unaffected but you would get more stability of price.

2) for trots and dogs there should be an incentive offered to favourites supporters to protect against getting nothing for your bet.
NSW offers 1.04 as the minimum on most bets whilst the other two TABS only give you 1.00

I would like to see a bonus of 10cents offered to punters placing bets of $100 or less who bet 5 minutes or more before the race. So if you take the favourite, put your bet on 5 minutes before go and it pays only 1.00 or 1.04 then you would get a bonus that takes the payout up to 1.10

this would see more small punters have a go at place betting because you would know you get something rather than nothing, it would pay for itself with increased turnover and it would create greater price stability over the final few minutes.

from a betting point of view harness and dogs are the weak links, they need help to get more people involved. The TAB should be proactive in this area because everyone benefits from increased turnover.

see ya
Every Topic

[becareful]

It seems that some people are either happy with the current racing offerings or feel that nothing can be done to change peoples perceptions so why bother. My question to these people is where do you think the racing industry will be in 10 years if nothing changes?

In the last 10 years TAB turnover on racing has been fairly static in dollar terms but in real terms (ie. adjusted for inflation) it has fallen and in real per-capita terms it has fallen dramatically. I don't have the actual figures handy but years ago the majority of the public's gambling dollar went into horse racing - now it is a very small fraction. I would also guess (although I have no figures to back it up) that the average age of a horse racing punter has risen significantly and that there simply aren't sufficient new punters being attracted to the sport to sustain it as these older punters start to leave (or die).

If something drastic isn't done to attract some new interest (and hence new punters) then the sport is going to be in serious trouble very soon. The sport is currently dependant on the gambling revenue to sustain it and if that revenue keeps shrinking then obviously costs will have to be cut (and cut drastically).

Personally I think it is already too late to save a lot of the current clubs and tracks - what should be happening NOW is deciding which tracks should be kept and merging the various clubs so that the money can be spent on keeping a much smaller number of tracks in much better condition so that we can have a smaller number of better quality race meetings. By all means the other tracks can be kept running for non-TAB meetings if they can be funded by other means but the TAB support should be directed only to those that will be used for the main racing "circuit".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: becareful on 2003-09-04 10:43 ]</font>

[umrum]

On 2003-09-03 19:46, tragic wrote:
you ponder how to make racing more interesting to the general public i contend its near impossible no matter how inovative you might try to be you compare it to swimming as an example ok on the telly a couple of times a year the viewers know thorpe perkins and the other guns at the end of a race will be right in the finnish every time just about no exception real nail bitting stuff exciting to watch same for tennis but who wants to watch the maidens play the rest of the year? icontend nobody same thing for racing the melb cup on telly very sucsessful why? everybody in oz has a nag running for them not because racing interests them its the hype the thing you do race over no more interest till the hype next year you tell me a horse that will win or be in a photo finish race after race like thorpe to keep your interest there aint none most punters dont give a stuff about the races they treat it like lotto put their bets on then go fishing or the footy every now and then you get a nag like northerly to spark some interest but the only good it does is give the lotto players a banker for their quadies


i tend to agree tragic. Northerly(P.PAyne) were my anchor on slipper day. needless to say northerly got done first leg of quadie due to Payne's abissmal ride and i got the next 3 legs of the quadie(I think they were polar success, hossanah and grand armee). anyway the quadiepaid 30 000. i was and still am pissed off with payne.

thought i would spin a yarn.

cheers umrum