Learning Blackjack

[Steve]

Hello
What is the best way of learning to card count and does it really work? Is there anyone who teaches it in person? Is there software that can be used to learn it?
Thanks in advance.
Steve

[Marcus]

If you visit the blackjack section of the propun site you will see information about card counting lessons and blackjack in Australia.
If you are interested in blackjack like me, it is worth having a look at.
Marcus.

[PI]

i was also if there is a reputable trainer in Aus then in last few days I saw adverts late at night on TV from a company in Melbourne called BJ Masters,
Is there anybody who have used them?
Are they any good?
ANy feedback is appreciated
the website is http://www.bjmasters.com.au
(No I am not a staff member or user of this co.)

[pengo]

He'd want to be good at those prices!

[matt]

Another is White Knight (http://www.whiteknightblackjack.com/).

[Baltik]

Is anyone aware whether such institutions mentioned above can actually teach you to count cards successfully and translate this into a long term profit at any Australian casino?

Cheers.

[Mr. Logic]

On 2002-04-19 09:16, Baltik wrote:
Is anyone aware whether such institutions mentioned above can actually teach you to count cards successfully and translate this into a long term profit at any Australian casino?

They both can. The trick is to avoid being banned by casinos. I know a number of blackjack players who have been banned by parasite casinos who wring out every dollar they can out of the average illinformed gambler.

Casinos really should be forced by law to prominently display signs.

Long term losers only welcome
or
Welcome, but only if you play at a disadvantage.

If a casino suspects you are a successful counter or playing with any legal method that gives you an edge you are watched like a criminal.

Until the execution which is swift and formal.

You are then no longer welcome to play the game in that casino under the same rules that apply to everyone else.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. Logic on 2002-04-19 12:42 ]</font>

[TheDuck]

This all sounds interesting. Unfortunately, the commute would be terrible to go to any of these 'counting schools' since I live in Canada. Anybody care to sponsor me? :smile:

[osulldj]

Learning the technique to count cards is not hard, in fact its easy. The difficulty comes in the practice to become proficient enough to play under game conditions. Even when you have tha nailed there are still issues like finding a game with conditions you can actually make money at (not all BJ games are equal.)

In my view there is no need to pay someone to teach you how to count cards. There are many cheaper and just as effective methods out there to learn. I learnt through a few books and many many many hours of home practice.

Even when you have everything in top shape, it is still a grind to make a decent income. It's all about your $ per hour and Australian conditions aren't ideal for maximising that.
After a few years playing I was making a reasonable income but gave it away because quiet honestly, it was too much of a struggle. The technical side of playing was easy...to the point that it wasn't a challenge, but the increasing difficulty in finding a game with profitable conditions in Australia meant that the number of playing hours had to be increased to maintain the same returns. This meant playing at any and all hours of the day and night.....which makes you more noticable to Casino staff.
From my persepctive the struggle wasn't worth it, I now make more from Racing by focusing 100% instead of 50% of my time on that and I have no pressure from Casinos.

Back onto card counting.....
There is also more than one card counting method. For beginners I recommend the Knockout Plan which is much easier and just as effective as the traditional True Count system i'm led to believe is taught by schools here.

You can find the site here:
http://www.koblackjack.com/

Also just to show you don't need to pay someone to learn 90% of what you need to make money playing blackjack, visit:

http://www.gamemasteronline.com/indexa.shtml

This is the Gamemaster Online site which includes a fully fledged FREE blackjack school (19 lessons I think) which teaches you all you need to know about basic strategy and the traditional true counting method. I can thoroughly recommend it for any beginning BJ player.

Hope this helps.

[plugga1976]

osulldj what is your method to making money on the horses

[osulldj]

Hi Plugga,

In short, my method is to back horses that are available at a price i think is greater than their winning chance, nothing new there. It's not always about backing the horse you think has the best chance of winning, but the horses that have the biggest gap between their market price and chance of winning.

The devil though is in the detail of how you work that out. My own approach is characterised by detailed form study and a in depth knowledge of the capabilitieis on individual horses in different race conditions. I gain that winning edge through combination of tools and resources I have developed myself to give me information not available in form guides or to the general public. Much of this centres around pace and the preferrences individual horses have for varying pace conditions.

[freowaytogo]

I wouldn't waste my time.
If your casino are not using shuffling machines now, I bet they will be in the next 12 months.
For your info, a shuffling machine has nearly all the cards in it, most of the time, so you would have a clue what is coming out next!

[Mr J]

On 2002-08-12 12:44, osulldj wrote:
Learning the technique to count cards is not hard, in fact its easy. The difficulty comes in the practice to become proficient enough to play under game conditions. Even when you have tha nailed there are still issues like finding a game with conditions you can actually make money at (not all BJ games are equal.)

In my view there is no need to pay someone to teach you how to count cards. There are many cheaper and just as effective methods out there to learn. I learnt through a few books and many many many hours of home practice.

Even when you have everything in top shape, it is still a grind to make a decent income. It's all about your $ per hour and Australian conditions aren't ideal for maximising that.
After a few years playing I was making a reasonable income but gave it away because quiet honestly, it was too much of a struggle. The technical side of playing was easy...to the point that it wasn't a challenge, but the increasing difficulty in finding a game with profitable conditions in Australia meant that the number of playing hours had to be increased to maintain the same returns. This meant playing at any and all hours of the day and night.....which makes you more noticable to Casino staff.
From my persepctive the struggle wasn't worth it, I now make more from Racing by focusing 100% instead of 50% of my time on that and I have no pressure from Casinos.

Back onto card counting.....
There is also more than one card counting method. For beginners I recommend the Knockout Plan which is much easier and just as effective as the traditional True Count system i'm led to believe is taught by schools here.

You can find the site here:
http://www.koblackjack.com/

Also just to show you don't need to pay someone to learn 90% of what you need to make money playing blackjack, visit:

http://www.gamemasteronline.com/indexa.shtml

This is the Gamemaster Online site which includes a fully fledged FREE blackjack school (19 lessons I think) which teaches you all you need to know about basic strategy and the traditional true counting method. I can thoroughly recommend it for any beginning BJ player.

Hope this helps.


Listen to this advice, it's pretty thorough.

With the Gamemaster Online tutorials, it's good and gives you the info you need to attack the casino's.

However, you should also read the better books on card counting, and visit a few websites. One I frequent, BJ21.com, hosted by Stanford Wong, is execllent, and there are many very knowledgable players there.

As for conditions, it depends. With decent camo, it will be quite a while before anyone notices your a counter, IF your playing low stakes.

However, high stakes are risky, and you will be asking for it in Australia (again, too many hours/casino=eventual ban). Camo will only last for so long...

If you really want to make an income of counting (very stressful, and emotionally strenuous), I suggest you count part-time, work and build up a BR. Try to also expand your horizons into other gambling such as sports betting.

About the glamorous comment, thats for sure. It's long hard work. But then again, so are most jobs. It does have its perks (women everywhere, can be entertaining, beating them at their own game etc), but don't be fooled, their are many cons (large BR necessary to make decent $$$ with low risk, long hours, very challenging emotionally etc).

The fact is, most people who try to make a living off BJ will fail. Most people aren't the right sort of person. You have to be fairly unemotional, or at least be able to seperate emotion from 'business'. If not, a long losing trend will drive you insane, literally. Losing trends WILL happen, FREQUENTLY. It's a rollercoaster ride, not a steady income. You should have quite a lot of money away ready to cover expenses far ahead. You need that BR :wink:, it also helps if you have little expense (no morgage, wife or kids etc).

There's a good chance you'll lose all of your money, However most counters who fail, fail for one of two reasons, often both
1)not disciplined

2)inappropriatly bankrolled

Learning to count to perfection isn't the key...learning to seize the right opportunites is, and even more-so, getting away with it all.

The pit is stupid, but smart enough to catch on...

Vary the casino's you play at, change the shift you play on, observe shift changes, who works when etc. There's alot more to it than just remembering the count.

Don't pick too complex a count. Most counts give roughly the same edge. Start with something simple like the KO (Knockout) or Hi-Lo count. Find out if you prefer balanced or unbalanced systems.

When your ready for the casino's, play for min bet, counting and observing in your head. Don't change the bet acording to the count, just get a feel for counting in the casino. Don't start playing for profit until you find counting and everything that goes with it second nature.

There is much more that I didn't go into here, but you will learn from experience.

Don't pay anyone to teach you, all the info you need is accessible in books and off the web.

Stick with it, and you will make your money.
Just don't ever assume it will be an easy road.