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Bhagwan
10th January 2002, 08:15 AM
Cick into http://www.qtab.com after 10.00am. on any day of the week . You will see Mark Reads assesed point ratings . I have found by backing the 100pt.runners paying $3.20 or more in the newspaper ,the reults over the last 200 races were this. 29% stike rate. Profit on turnover 20% What I found amazing is is the number of double figure winners that pop up e.g. on Wed.9th. $11.20 $15.20 I would recomend level stake betting using a bank of $1.00 for every $100.00 If more than one 100pt. selection in race back them both as long as they are $3.20 in newspaper. All bets could be placed at once ,great for busy people . Further feedback on this would be welcome.

Big Louie
15th January 2002, 05:46 PM
Hi Bhagwan.

You mentioned http://www.qtab.com.

That website is a human resources website (USA company, I think).

Do you mean Queensland TAB web site? If so, this is http://www.tabonline.com.au. But if it is, then I am still confused, because I couldn't find any reference to Mark Read's ratings.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Big Louie

Bhagwan
16th January 2002, 08:29 AM
http://www.tabq.com.au .Correction my ballsup.

Mr. Logic
16th January 2002, 06:06 PM
Nice, but too small a statistical sample. The next 200 could easily give you only 29 winners instead of 58 and return a significant loss.
It's like looking for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - a winning betting method that requires no effort or time.
It's also just about impossible long term placing bets on the tote in the morning and collecting long term profits in the evening.
I should know. I tried it for years. I finally realised you only get out what you put in. The only way to win at racing is to put in the hard hours, week in, week out and then bet in a disciplined and unemotional manner.

osulldj
21st January 2002, 01:17 PM
Mr. Logic lives up to his name by telling it how it is. In reality, there is no method like the one suggested that makes long or even medium term profits. Searching for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow with little or no effort will prove to be a life long fruitless search.

Learn the basics of effective form analysis, be selective in the races to tackle and leave alone and learn how to bet /manage your money effectively.....thats the only way to make long term profits.

cameron398
21st January 2002, 09:22 PM
Hi Mr Logic and co, I am curious.

I really like your logical approach to all posts.

In your years of trying to crack a system what was your longest winning streak? More specifically, were you able to return a profit for a period of time and if so for how long?

And by the way - what do you think is the minimum number of sample races one should start to rely on?

Would appreciate your replies on these queries...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cameron398 on 2002-01-21 22:24 ]</font>

Mr. Logic
21st January 2002, 09:44 PM
To Cameron398

Here are my replies:
"In your years of trying to crack a system what was your longest winning streak? More specifically, were you able to return a profit for a period of time and if so for how long?"

One method returned a profit on turnover of appoximately 25% over about 10 months and 280 bets. It then fell in a complete hole and made a whopping 60% loss on turnover over around the next 200 bets. I follow the method now just to get the horses and use full form analysis to eliminate most of the system's horses.

"And by the way - what do you think is the minimum number of sample races one should start to rely on?"

For a racing system based on simple rules and not proper form analysis eg, weights, times, class, fitness, barriers, jockeys, video study, etc. etc. - none.

If you are using proper form analysis etc. then more important than whether you are making a profit over any period is how your selections are going in the races. If you are showing a loss and are backing selections at generous odds - whatever that is!! - but there are plenty of valid reasons like bad luck in a lot of races, or plenty of good runs but something else just nabs your horse/s then there is nothing to worry about. Things will turn around.

cameron398
21st January 2002, 10:31 PM
Thanks Mr Logic.

So if in time I managed say a 30-35 percent profit on turnover for say 1,000 bets would you say I was onto something?

I guess even if I managed that it may still fall in a hole for the next 1,000 bets.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cameron398 on 2002-01-22 00:34 ]</font>

osulldj
22nd January 2002, 10:42 AM
Hi Cameron,

In my view it depends on how you generated this 30-35% profit over 1000 bets. If you are talking about a system that has been developed, by fitting rules to races already run then i would say that you aren't onto anything.

With the right data it is very easy to back-fit some rules to show outstanding profit. The trouble is the next series of bets like Mr. Logic says. The only use of systems is to get a base series of selection. You can then apply your own manual form analysis to these selections to see if they are worthy bets.

If you have taken this approach over 1000 "live" bets and produced 30-35% POT then i would suggest you are onto something. If you haven't, give it a try and see what happens.

cameron398
22nd January 2002, 09:38 PM
Only people with low IQ's fit rules to races already run. (I went through that stage many years ago haha.) My results achieved of late are based upon rules set in concrete. So to answer my original question if over time I eventually manage to achieve 30 percent or so for say about 1000 races that would be pretty good eh...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cameron398 on 2002-01-23 00:26 ]</font>

Bhagwan
24th January 2002, 07:30 AM
I feel it could be a stronger stratergy to target the 100 Pointer horses that are 4/1 in the newspaper.The strike rate drops a bit but you are still on the ones of value & with fewer bets.Results Wed 23rd Jan.$3.60+2.70+3.6+10.70. 25%S/R 21%Profit on turn over. Check it out.Level stakes betting.

Bhagwan
24th January 2002, 07:34 AM
Correction .It is supposed to read 100 Pointers at $4.00 or more, in newspaper.4 from 16 races 25% Srike Rate.

Glenno
26th May 2005, 03:39 PM
Hi Bhagwan.

You mentioned http://www.qtab.com (http://www.qtab.com/).

That website is a human resources website (USA company, I think).

Do you mean Queensland TAB web site? If so, this is http://www.tabonline.com.au (http://www.tabonline.com.au/). But if it is, then I am still confused, because I couldn't find any reference to Mark Read's ratings.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Big Louie
http://www.tabq.com.au (http://www.tabq.com.au/) .Correction my ballsup.
For the record, http://www.tabonline.com.au/ is the official website for UniTAB.

Mad Chris
7th June 2005, 11:59 AM
Cick into http://www.qtab.com (http://www.qtab.com/) after 10.00am. on any day of the week . You will see Mark Reads assesed point ratings . I have found by backing the 100pt.runners paying $3.20 or more in the newspaper ,the reults over the last 200 races were this. 29% stike rate. Profit on turnover 20% What I found amazing is is the number of double figure winners that pop up e.g. on Wed.9th. $11.20 $15.20 I would recomend level stake betting using a bank of $1.00 for every $100.00 If more than one 100pt. selection in race back them both as long as they are $3.20 in newspaper. All bets could be placed at once ,great for busy people . Further feedback on this would be welcome.
Where does it say these ratings are supplied by Mrak Reid or for that matter anyone else?

beton
7th June 2005, 03:19 PM
Just out of curiousity has anybody followed this system and what were the results. I thank you in advance.
Beton

Sportz
7th June 2005, 03:31 PM
A guy who used to be on here called Jacfin did some research on Unitab 100 raters. He found that backing 100 raters in Bris, Syd & Melb on Saturdays at dividends of $8.00+ produced a handy profit over a period of a year or so.

Personally, I love the Unitab 100 raters and I have several little systems based around them.

mickmc
7th June 2005, 07:28 PM
A guy who used to be on here called Jacfin did some research on Unitab 100 raters. He found that backing 100 raters in Bris, Syd & Melb on Saturdays at dividends of $8.00+ produced a handy profit over a period of a year or so.

Personally, I love the Unitab 100 raters and I have several little systems based around them.


yeah - I remember that , after that was posted I tried to sort one myself using the 100 rater theory from that site. Had some success with it and the winners were at a pretty decent price. I put quite a few filters in mine and it wasn't till recently that I had a brainwave , in that maybe the filters I had put in were going against the work the ratings had already done. I had planned to revisit this because it did show some merit originally

dingoboy
8th June 2005, 07:22 AM
Just info for 100 pointers,
I use them for place bets, awsome strike rate and a tidy side profit,
Check out when the late mail matches up with the 100 pointers !
Cheers
Dingo

punter57
9th June 2005, 06:13 PM
Sportz. Just looked at today's races. 26 gallops and not a 100 pointer at $8 or more. However there was a $37 winner on 81 points (the bottom) and a $47 one with a 91 ranking. By taking the WORST ranked, in each race, we have 40% POT though I'm not sure what to do with the $47 longshot. Should I be "running" with this result (ie the 40%) or do my own ratings?? Should I bet on tha least fancied,or keep trying to make fancied horses pay?? Would appreciate some guidance.Cheers

KennyVictor
9th June 2005, 08:28 PM
By taking the WORST ranked, in each race, we have 40% POT though I'm not sure what to do with the $47 longshot.

Don't think you're going to worm your way into "The POT Crowd" with little references like this P57. You've said too much and hurt too many people to ever be one of us.

KV

Mad Chris
11th June 2005, 04:50 PM
Cick into http://www.qtab.com (http://www.qtab.com/) after 10.00am. on any day of the week . You will see Mark Reads assesed point ratings . I have found by backing the 100pt.runners paying $3.20 or more in the newspaper ,the reults over the last 200 races were this. 29% stike rate. Profit on turnover 20% What I found amazing is is the number of double figure winners that pop up e.g. on Wed.9th. $11.20 $15.20 I would recomend level stake betting using a bank of $1.00 for every $100.00 If more than one 100pt. selection in race back them both as long as they are $3.20 in newspaper. All bets could be placed at once ,great for busy people . Further feedback on this would be welcome.

Is it a secret or was someone making the story up?

I will ask again....... how do we know these are Mark Read's ratings, there is no mention of him on the Qld site AND it would seem to be silly for a large bookmaker to be supplying ratings to a TAB am I the only one who thinks this way or is that the reason no body has answered my early question?

Doh

Sportz
11th June 2005, 05:17 PM
Bhagwan posted that about 3 years ago. Not totally sure what was the case then, but I'm pretty certain Mark Read has nothing to do with the Unitab ratings now. I think you'll find they are derived from a formula something like the AAP neurals.

Bhagwan
12th June 2005, 02:27 AM
Mark Read offers a service to the Hotels of his top chances with a price ,so as to bet the overs or bet the quinellas, one can have this service phone texted to them if required ,for a fee, he stated some time ago in one of his mail outs that Uni TAB commission his Wt. Rating service .

Anyway , who cares who supplied what , it is of use to someone or it`s not & it`s free.
Would it make any difference to anyone as to who supplied what.
Inracing have a similar service as does Wizard racing form guide as do a number of other services.

Mark Read is not just a bookmaker , he is considered one of the more progressive operators around.
He was the first to have a designated Hotel purely for betting on horses.With live vision from the track, before Fox was heard of.
He was one of the first to have online betting.
He set up in Darwin so as to get around the strange betting regulations in NSW. They saw something wrong with him using a mobile phone on course
He was the first to offer laying the Fav.
He was the first to offer best price fluctuations.
He was one of the first to use computers on course.
He was one of the first to display price aswell as odds on his boards.

He was the first bookie to supply legitament ratings information & the other Bookies thought he was crazy for doing that for Punters.
He saw nothing wrong about that because his book is set regardless of the outcome which is what real Bookies supposed to do.

I could go on.

Yes , it might appear unusual for a Bookie to do other things beside bookmaking to the average people .
But Mark Read is no average thinking chap , he is one of those types who tries to think outside the square.

He is not just "very good at sums and stuff."

Look at the DFS ratings as per NSW TAB , they pay for that service from an outside supplier .

The prices in the pre-post market as shown in the newspaper come from an outside bookmaker or service, not the newspaper people themselves.

Cheers.

joelance
12th June 2005, 04:30 AM
Hi Bhagwan

The ratings on Unitab are supplied by AAP, not Mark Read. If you read the fine print on the unitab website they state they are AAP ratings. They are not related to the neurals but are actually part of ther Fastform ratings.

Joe

Mad Chris
12th June 2005, 07:14 AM
Thank you for your reply Bagwhan, you sound well informed or on the IAS payroll

To me it's a big thing if Read supplyed the info as I have the utmost respect for his opinion and would delve into the ratings a little if this was the case

I am aware of the Read Ratings in pubs so again thank you for informing me of this great service

If the ratings are from AAP (more than likely) then they will prove to be erratic "ON THEIR OWN" as these are pure CLASS figures rather than fitness or form figues and this is something to remember when doing the form and should only make up around 20% to 25% of the horse selection criteria

Cheers big ears

Bhagwan
12th June 2005, 07:00 PM
Check out some of the 100Ptr divs in the last couple of days , that are $4.00= in the newspapaer pre-post.
There was one there that paid $17.00 , plus a bunch of others at reasonable prices.

w924
27th July 2005, 09:13 AM
Cick into http://www.qtab.com (http://www.qtab.com/) after 10.00am. on any day of the week . You will see Mark Reads assesed point ratings . I have found by backing the 100pt.runners paying $3.20 or more in the newspaper ,the reults over the last 200 races were this. 29% stike rate. Profit on turnover 20% What I found amazing is is the number of double figure winners that pop up e.g. on Wed.9th. $11.20 $15.20 I would recomend level stake betting using a bank of $1.00 for every $100.00 If more than one 100pt. selection in race back them both as long as they are $3.20 in newspaper. All bets could be placed at once ,great for busy people . Further feedback on this would be welcome.
Bagwhan, I have read many of your posts with great interest. Like, you I am a big fan of Mark Read..bookmaker, racehorse owner, punter and visionary. He has been the one man in the game that I've admired the most. he was an outstanding rails bookmaker, and when he returned to Melb ring from Sydney, he almost always offered better odds on longer priced horses than the clicky Melb bookmakers circle. Yes, he made his own book and stood by it. Gutsy!


It would seem that the unitabqld ratings are supplied by AAP. This brings me to ask what people think of the neural ratings on offer on the aap website (free)

I find the wet track , distance, course and days since last run helpful. I tweak those up to the maximum, and the wet track up or down depending on track condition. Ive been looking at those selections which are 100 points or more ahead of their closest rivals. However, the time ratings seem to be largely responsible for the much higher rating figures, and Im not a huge fan of times as a significant factor.

Lately ive noticed these "100 plus points ahead of their rivals" horses winning or lsoing by the barest of margins most of the time. Not good for the heart if one has backed them lol.. If a horse rates streets ahead like that, and if time was the significant factor, then surely these horses should be winning by bigger margins most of the time?

Now, has anyone monitored ozeform.com.au free "hot tips"? (mark read again). They seem to have a pretty good strike rate, but I havent monitored them for any length of time.

Also, how would one easily price those qtab ratings..ie convert from numbers to assesed odds price?
Any thoughts?

Cheers
Steve

Stix
27th July 2005, 01:21 PM
W924

I monitored the hot tips with a spreadsheet awhile ago for around 3 months.... and was in a loss situation when punting straight out, e/way and 1x3..... but the strike rate was good.... just couldn't turn a profit.

Even tried using as an anchor in exactas and tris and not much success there either...... (didn't keep the results, otherwise could of emailed them to you )

Can't remember if he has a past results page.....

Yours in Punting

Stix

w924
28th July 2005, 08:05 AM
Hi Stix,
many thanks for your comments, and generous info. on the OZEFORM Hot Tips.. I appreciate it. Some of their winners do lob at good prices...now if only there was a good way to nab them...

All the best
w924

chiller
28th July 2005, 08:32 AM
Hello Bhagwan ( & All),
Bhagwan wrote
"Cick into http://www.qtab.com after 10.00am. on any day of the week . You will see Mark Reads assesed point ratings . I have found by backing the 100pt.runners paying $3.20 or more in the newspaper ,the reults over the last 200 races were this. 29% stike rate. Profit on turnover 20% What I found amazing is is the number of double figure winners that pop up e.g. on Wed.9th. $11.20 $15.20 I would recomend level stake betting using a bank of $1.00 for every $100.00 If more than one 100pt. selection in race back them both as long as they are $3.20 in newspaper. All bets could be placed at once ,great for busy people ."

I wonder if you would like to look at the staking methods employed by Howard Sartin. You back two in a race, 60% on shorter priced and 40% on the longer, PROVIDED that the price is greater than $3.50.... I have been following this for many years... have adapted it to not backing anything shorter than $3.00..... Any of you fellows out there with spreadsheets able to check if this is profitable or not.... I do this as well as take quinellas, trifectas on the same races.....
At one stage I used to get a ratings from Prowin ( I think it was called, it was from a bloke in S.A., who had offered it through the Ausrace Digest)
I was in touch with him and told him of the method and he found that it did throw up better profits than merely backing the top rated horse....
Look forward to any comments...

partypooper
28th July 2005, 03:52 PM
Chiller, what you really have there is two methods, i.e. 4 units on the highest priced of the top two rated and 6 points on the shortest. So over a given period of time, say 100 races you have 100 bets @ 4units, (level stakes) so it either showed a profit (at levels or it didn't) also you have 100 bets @ 6 units (level stakes again) and it either showed a profit at levels or it didn't.

In other words having 4 on one and 6 on the other is irrelavant, you could have 2 1/4 on one and 17 3/4 on the other and the result stands : i.e. you either have a profit at level stakes or you don't. I'd be VERY surprised if there was a profit on either selection though.