betting software

[cj_bear]

hi, new to this
Can someone pls help with any info on horse racing software for computer, my partner is about to sign up for a near $10,000 agreement. Looking for winners or loosers

Thanks Claire

[Chrome Prince]

CJ Bear,

I would not entertain a $10,000 purchase with rich promises.

There is alternative software available for under $1,000.00

Having said that, no software that "picks winners" will do so longterm.

Software should be the type that is a tool to quicken up your selection process with your own ideas or test ideas over past data.

The alarm bells should ring when a pricetag of $10,000 is attached to any gambling product.

a near $10,000 agreement !! :eek: What a way to start the punt - 10K BEHIND :lol:

[Bhagwan]

There have been posts in the past about such expensive programs bought by people & all have reported substatial losses & the after sales support is next to nill.

DO IT AT YOUR OWN PERALL.
Those people are nothing but opportunists, who pray on the nievity of non punters.

[crash]

For $10,000 you may as well buy a share in a half decent horse. At least you'll have a chance to make a few bob. Not a big chance, but at least a chance.

Cheers.

[alblyn]

ocba.sa.gov.au/scams/05_getrich.html
try looking at this site

[Dolus]

Hi Claire

Just joined to specifically reply to your post. I am in the UK and over the years have tried all sorts of software. Most of it does not live up to expectations.

I notice that there is a lot of very expensive offerings available in Australia, that if my information is correct is at best not very good and at worst an outright scam.

This brings me nicely to the point of this post. There is some little known software available that originates from your country. I liked the theory behind its development and the price $20.00. I purchased a copy and have been trialling it on our All Weather racing and some of the South African racing.In all honesty this racing is not really suitable for the program being too low a class, but so far I have been impressed with the results. I have also been impressed with the results posted up by the author regarding the Australian racing.

Dolus

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: quapi on 2004-02-07 11:34 ]</font>

[Shaun]

I had a look at that program....but i won't pay for anything i could create in excel in 1/2 hour.....you could get a similar result by adding the price plus the last 4 finishes EG
$2.20 + 1+5+0+2 = 20.2
$3.50 + 2+3+4+1 = 13.5
you could even deduct points for track and distance winner say 2 points each
but i must say good job to the creater at least he didn't put some high price tag on it....and i lit the links he has there very useful indeed so not a total wate

[Dolus]

Hi Shaun

I believe that when it comes to horse racing and the quest for winners the punter needs the enquiring and analytical mindset of a detective. Nothing can be taken at face value and nothing can be dismissed out of hand. Everything needs to be looked at beyond the surface. Above all nothing should be supposed without some evidence to support it.

As you posted quite soon after me I have to assume that you have had a quick look at the program and because of the minimal data input required have dismissed it as not up to much.

This is understandable as there are a lot of quick fix systems and methods that are frankly worthless. It is also true that a program with a few inputs can be written in a short space of time. I have a hard drive littered with such efforts of my own, trying and testing different theories and methods. Unfortunately none of them have worked with much success so far.

Now if you have read the web page and the help file that comes with the program and you believe there is some truth in it then it is obvious that it was not knocked up in half an hour.

I can only speak as I find and as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating. As mentioned I have experimented with our All Weather racing and some South African racing. The results have been encouraging but the races in general have not been of a higher enough class to suit the program. I decided mid January to put the program away until our Flat season starts properly in March. The exception was any All Weather races of 'C' class or above. (Our races go from the best 'A' down to the rubbish 'H')

So far there have been four qualifying races. On 17th Jan a Non Handicap race, the program picked the second favourite that readily won @ 11/4.

The next race was not until the 30th Jan, another Non Handicap. The programs top pick a relatively unfancied horse won @ 7/1. The red hot favourite that everybody had as nailed on was not even rated by the program and did not make the frame.

The next race on the 3rd Feb was another Non Handicap and the program picked an outsider that finished 2nd @ 11/1. It could just not get past the winner but both were well clear of the rest of the field.

The following day there was another 'C' class race, this time a Handicap where the programs top pick was beaten out of sight.

I know this is a very small sample but I think the program has potential.

Dolus


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dolus on 2004-02-08 00:12 ]</font>

[Shaun]

Don't get me wrong i am not knocking the program....the fact they are not selling it at a huge cost is a plus....i just gave an example of a different way to get a similar result...the program is a ratings program i know this by the information it asks for the one thing that all ratings programs have in common is a rating of cause.....what they do is take a bit of information like the last finishing position and add a figure to this...the thing that makes a good program in to a very good program is the ability of the programer to put an accurate rating on his information required and also to determine the importance of that information from other information he asks for i will give you an example


If i said to you what is more important the barrier the horse is comeing out of or the class of the race the horse compeated in last time compaired to todays races.....you would say the class....but if i said what is more important the days since the horse last raced or the weight change from last race to this race....thats a little harder and i bet we would have a mixed result if that question was asked......if you are getting good results from this program then i would say that the programer may have the correct ratings for each bit of info....anyways good luck with the program and i hope it keeps going for you

[Dolus]

Hi Shaun

It's funny talking from the other side of the world. You are probably in bed when I post and vice versa when you post.

Mixing and matching horse racing variables is like making a cake. The basic ingredients are the same but the result can be as different as fairy cakes and black forest gateux.

I tell you what I have noticed on this forum is that there seem to be a lot of people who come on as first timers, ask a question then never come back to respond to the answers -STRANGE!

Dolus

[Shaun]

This is very true....some people like to take from this forum but never give back.....i will say one thing i learned most of what i know from books and pratice...people could learn a lot from what is posted on this forum from simple selection systems to complex ratings it is all here if you look hard enough

[cj_bear]

Thankyou for your comments on my less than a week old post

I have been very busy gathering information on Computer Gambling Schemes, especially when there is such a large of money at stake. I've come to the conclusion..if you don't have it to loose don't part with it, but it's not me that wants to throw away hard earned cash.

My bother (who is a keen puter) is very interested with this forum. But when he gets to read the last two posts he might feel a little STRANGE too. I know I'm new at this, but does one have to respond to a post the very same day.....the horse bolted

Once again thankyou one and all
Cheers Claire

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-02-14 03:59 ]</font>

[Dolus]

Hi Claire

I was not having a go at you, it was just an observation, and no you do not have to reply on the same day. Anyway my comment was made six days after your original post.

---------------
Puntz

I am afraid you have completely lost me with your name changing thing and putting up IP addresses. I can not see what this has to do with anything I have posted ????

Dolus

[Debug]

Hi cj_bear
Just dropped in so I am a bit late with this response.

Some time ago I put in a post from the perspective of someone who has been writing racing programs for a few years. I don't know what happened to it but it seems to have been removed.

Anyway here is a copy of the post. You may find it interesting.

Cheers
***************************************
I often read posts from members enquiring if a particular computer racing program is any good or alerting punters to dubious programs.

I have been writing racing programs for several years during which time I have spoken with many punters who have told me how they were conned into buying one program or another which, to their disappointment and considerable loss, turned out to be a complete dud.

To new punters in particular the computer racing program tends to be a bit of an enigma. Can it actually pick winners and make money for the user? If so, why is the program being offered for sale? Here is a brief description of a basic racing program and a few pointers which hopefully will help save a first time buyer paying out thousands of dollars for some hyped up system that is full of promises and short on delivery.

The most common types of racing programs and the ones referred to here are those that use real time race prices. This type of program normally consists of three basic modules -

1. A module that collects real time race prices. Prices may be taken off the internet, teletext, a datacast service like Ch's 7 Bettordata or simply typed in by the user. A program that relies on teletext or datacast will require a decoder, the price of which has to be added to the basic program cost.
2. A module to select runners and calculate bets. This is the all important module that does the selecting of runner(s) and is often the mysterious part of the program to some punters. A few program suppliers will not even tell you how their program selects runners - be wary if you strike this.
3. Finally a module to transfer the bets to the betting agency. This may be via the internet, direct on-line betting or simply left to the user to phone in the bets.

The most common bet calculating method found in a program is dutching, whereby multiple runners in a race are selected to carry bets. If one of the group wins, a profit is returned to the punter. You would use this on win prices and sometimes, if you are feeling lucky, on big paying place prices. Bets can be calculated to return a user predetermined target profit or a total bet amount.

A program will let the user select runners and/or provide a 'system' that makes the selections for you. Remember here that we are dealing with a type of program that relies on real time race prices for selecting runners, so there is not too much mystery as to what it can do. By far the most common 'system' of picking potential winners is to select those runners that undergo large drops in price - shortening. Price differences may be monitored over a period of several minutes or for a sudden negative swing. There has always been a propensity by some punters to watch for that last moment price drop just before the close of bets. The theory being that if there is a significant shortening in any runner price then there must be some punter who has privileged information, so take advantage of that persons knowledge. One technique is to monitor the prices from different TAB's to coordinate price changes or identify any substantial amount placed on a runner at any one TAB. A program may use a database of information for support. Some programs concentrate on the exotics using probability formula to calculate bet amounts for sets of trifectas, quinellas or exactas. There is probably a whole range of 'systems' for a potential buyer to choose from but they usually follow the same theme - they relate back to price fluctuations and/or market favourites.

Unfortunately the price of programs is no sure indication as to whether one program is better than any other in helping the punter to make a profit. A $5000 program may not be any more useful than a $300 program. In fact I have seen two programs that do exactly the same thing and produce the same results with a price tag difference of over $7000.

You cannot purchase a computer racing program that will select runners and consistently make a profit for you. A program may pick winners but it will also pick losers so that short term gains are forfeited to long term losses. It is up to you, the program user, the punter, to make the profits by picking the right selection(s).

If you intend to buy a racing program be careful of those glossy brochures with their inviting balance sheets, be circumspect about "Investment program", "high returns" or "high strike rate".

Be objective when looking at a program, if possible test run the program yourself, don't rely on the salesman's description of how good it is. Try it with a few races. Do you think you can make a profit using the program? The emphasis is on YOU. If you can make a profit with it how long will it take to win back the price of the program? After all you do not begin making a profit until the program has been paid for.

Be very wary about any program that locks you into their 'system' selections and an unchangeable amount of bet, it is very easy for losses to escalate out of control with bad selections. Make sure you can change the selections if need be and set your own level of bet.

[cj_bear]

Hi Dolus....yes is easy to misunderstand print sometimes, np and ty

******************************************

Hi Debug

Very interesting reading, ta for that....Was not sure if I could name the particular program in this forum.. of the ppl that have been chasing my partner for over 6mths with their get rich schemes

Cheers cj_bear

[kenchar]

DeBug,

TOP POST which just about explains all the crap that is being spruked around.

What I can't understand with all these programs is why they are needed.

I basically bet from odds with a little bit of form thrown in.

If there is a race I am interested in I watch the odds from 4 different sites, 2 tabs and two betting agencies.

90% of my selections are the ones that BLOW in the market from opening price.

You can check as many years of data as you like and I guarantee that MORE horses win that blow than the ones that are backed in.

I always bet at the last minute and if there an announcement on sky that a horse is being heavily backed and it is my selection I DONT bet.

I'm not saying none of them salute but I have saved more money than I would have won by using this approach.

Again a very good post I just hope the newbies out there take heed.

[puntz]

One of the factors not realized by those who try to watch price fluctuations as means of determining who is betting on what, is the prices come from someone else doing the form, making a calculated bet, and there you have part of the market's &quot;reflection&quot;.
Now let's say everyone tried to follow prices, but no one did actual form. The whole structre of the market would be baseless. Mostly based on speculation.
If &quot;Aunt Nelly&quot; fancied a bet on pension day and told her cuz, &quot;what a wonderfull day it is to put a bet on, life is too short so better hurry&quot;, and they all went down to the TAB, placed their bets then told the entire bowling club, &quot;the sun is shining put a bet on&quot;, BUT not one had done any form, then is that how one of those &quot;follow the money system&quot; work ? based on speculation ?
And who's speculation I might add?
It comes down to form, and if your form type selection prove a hit, then yeah, maybe follow the money to confirm one way or the other many have a similar opinion on your form/rated selections to !
Yet again, who's opinion are you going to back ?
Yours, or &quot;Aunt Nelly's hubby by the way watching SKY channel tipsters draw the late money in like sheep to the slaughter ?

The late money system was ok when it was first come about, but soon after the idea gained popularity, many thought it was the &quot;short-cut&quot; to TAB riches...I don't think it has much merit these days on a grand scale...Just watch the prices tumble, and then even more on your returns when one of these systems are tried.
Finaly, a spreadhseet is all it takes to see the basics of how this calculation is done.
If a price is 10.00 @ &quot;time X&quot; and 7.50 @ &quot;time Y&quot;, go figure...
Nup...
But if you done some form, rated your form selections and &quot;see&quot; your own selection go from 10.00 to 7.50..then you have the edge. Not the other way round...loses in the long run.

[sportznut]

Hi Claire,

A quick and easy answer from me....NO WAY!!!

No way should anybody even contemplate parting with that kind of money for any kind of betting program!!!

[Debug]

Puntz,
Besides Aunt Nelly and her bowling club betting on a runner with a nice name I often wonder if some race prices are not partially computer driven.

There are just so many programs around these days that work by selecting shorteners. So you get the effect of one computer program with multiple users selecting a shortener which starts the betting roll and all other computer programs lock onto it through the drop in the TAB price.

It is a problem I believe that they had at one time with programs monitoring stock exchange prices.

Kenchar,
Thanks for your response.

It's horses for courses I suppose. Some people get along well without need of a computer program, others find it useful in their style of betting.

The bottom line for anyone that is going to buy a program: look around on the net, certainly don't pay thousands of dollars and make sure you don't get fleeced.

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-02-14 04:04 ]</font>

[kenchar]

Puntz,
I have to be careful what I post here as I don't want it deleted, but a few months ago I posted a truthfull fact that certain HUGE punters are allowed to do what any of us can't and WHAT they do definately manipulates the race in their favour.

Work it out for yourself I can't say anymore.

This is one reason I don't back the plunge horses, been around too long and seen too much for that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kenchar on 2004-02-11 17:38 ]</font>

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-02-14 04:00 ]</font>

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-02-14 04:04 ]</font>