tips tomorrow

[umrum]

Perth

Moon Talk*

Melb
Mr Murphy
Barabba rOAD
Maybe Bushido or Starcraft n the guineas

Sydney

Exceed and Excel
Ambulance + In top swing dangers
Zanna
Hinting

Bris

Ta ta tatiana

[Raw Instinct]

Melbourne

Race 2: #11 Zankel
Race 6: #5 Starcraft
Race 7: #3 Lightsweeper
Race 8: #9 Bird Dancer


Sydney

Race 5: #5 Ambulance
Race 6: #4 Irongail
Race 8: #2 Hinting


Brisbane

Race 6: #2 Startell
Race 7: #10 Teldawn

[crash]

Hi Umrum,

Must be time to kick off another of your tipping comps. ah ? I mean we need the practice [ put the boot into William ] after last time !

Elvstroem should easily claim the Guineas today for Vasil on a firm surface.

Cheers.

[Seeker11]

Umrum, Crash etc,

if we do decide to begin a tipping comp I think that some rules should be established so that it will clarify what is required to particpate.

For instance do we consider our selections "all-in" meaning that if you select a horse that is later scratched you lose the wager. If they are not "all-in" how close to the beginning of a race can we alter our tips. Perhaps a Saturday morning deadline should be required.

Just a few thoughts to assist in getting the next tipping comp off the ground and running



_________________
may the horse be with you

Seeker


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Seeker11 on 2004-02-17 09:58 ]</font>

[umrum]

I think perhaps we should have a pure selection tipping comp. No wagering involved. 1 point for a winner, 2 for a second best bet and three for a best bet. Also provide a sub for each tip in case of a scratching. If both your sub and tip are scratched you lose it. I.e

Umrum's Tips

Lonhro* Sub Thorn Park
Sportsman** Sub Zanna
Elvestrom sub Starcraft
Abdullah sub critical list
Mistegic sub spinning Hill

In a perfect world all my tips win. Lonhro earns 3 points as a best bet, Sportsmans earns 2 as a double and the other three win earning one point each. I have a total of 8 points. Any comments/thoughts welcome.

cheers
umrum

[crash]

Hi all,

My thoughts on the matter of a comp. after thinking on the problems of the last one:

Umrum, your suggestion of a pure tipping comp. is attractive as it would simplify things. The only problem I see is that everyone will tip short priced favorites in races with as few runners as possible. Last spring eg., the value of picking a win on Lohnro at odds-on to win would be the same as picking the win on Turmeric at 36/1 !!!
To be poetic about it, it ignores the 'Bravery at last, richly rewarding' factor.

The only way around the above problem would be tipping on say 5 set races only, but that would create a home state advantage [ punters usually do best on their own familiar tracks ]. Any bet beside win only would also be a problem as far as scoring and subs. go.

For simplicity, I think win only is a good idea though, with bet amounts able to be split among more than one horse in a race. Uni-tab prices and $50 per week on no more than 5 races at any Sat. metro was OK last spring.

The last comp. needed a rule that added a L/scratchings value to the next weeks available bet amount and a penalty for late joiners and those who missed various weeks.

For weeks missed, late comers need to accept the disadvantage of 1 week = $50 loss. The same if a week is missed during the comp. or dropping out early on a high bank. These rules avoids a comp. winner who has hardly played, but had a couple of lucky weeks.

A closing day needs to be set in advance.

Cheers.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2004-02-18 04:35 ]</font>

[Seeker11]

Comp tipsters,

I have to agree with Crash's set up, it encourages greater risk taking as suggested.

However there is no reason that both comps can not run along side one another.


_________________
may the horse be with you

Seeker

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Seeker11 on 2004-02-18 10:01 ]</font>

[william]

Hi Umrum and Crash how you both been keeping.
I would like to be in the next comp :smile:

Tipping Comp:Ideas

* Sat Metro Meetings....(MR-SR-BR-AR-WR)
* Five selections....one from each state.
* Points system....3-First 2-Second 1-Third

NOW IT BECOMES DIFFICULT
* SCRATCHINGS -L/S
* DEAD HEATS
* TIPS REGISTERED BY WHAT TIME
* WHOM WILL BE THE STEWARD
* RULES

And what ever else is needed....Okay... Umrum and crash,thats my contribution. :smile:
Take care
Regards
Will

[crash]

Hi Will,

Rule 1. Beat William !

Seriously though, I think $50 on up to 5 races anywhere might work out better than 1 in each state as some tracks might be heavy etc. Players can back in their own state or any other.

I still think points are a problem. Eg: 3 points for a horse paying 1.70 versus 3 points for a horse paying say, $27 ? [ a pair equals a full house ??? ].

Just my thoughts though.

[michaelv]

Just an 'off the hip" thought.....what about the points system but base it on POT%. eg WINNER (highest pot%) gets 3 points, etc.

Haven't really given it much thought as I'm busy following the races at the moment but toss it around and see how it comes out.

[william]

Hi Crash
Take your points----Good thoughts---There is not a simple solution to this tipping comp.
Im sure you and Umrum will come up with the goods.
Have a good day and back plenty off winners :smile:

Will


I
On 2004-02-18 11:50, crash wrote:

Hi Will,

Rule 1. Beat William ! (lol lol!!!!)

Seriously though, I think $50 on up to 5 races anywhere might work out better than 1 in each state as some tracks might be heavy etc. Players can back in their own state or any other.

I still think points are a problem. Eg: 3 points for a horse paying 1.70 versus 3 points for a horse paying say, $27 ? [ a pair equals a full house ??? ].

Just my thoughts though.

[umrum]

Ok guys. OUr problem is to keep it simple but still reward courageous or astute tipping as mentioned by crash. It does seem unfair to get the same points for lonhro(4/6)as Tumeric(50/1). The $50 is simple enough. I propose

* 5 operating races on a saturday
* any state, any meeting
* win only
* can have multiple runners in a race but must be win only i.e Lonhro 5 wins, freemason 3 wins, Clangalang 2 wins.
* $50 dollars max for day
* $10 dollars max for race
* hopefully comp will start saturday
* ending the last day of autumn carnival(randwick)

other ideas
a best bet system where perhaps your stake will be doubled for that one race. So lonhro backers will get double stake at 1.70 so their still isn't a disadvantage to longshot backers. I'm not sure about that one yet. Look forward to comment.

cheers
umrum

[crash]

To these selected rules mentioned by Umrum:

* 5 operating races on a Saturday
* any state, any meeting
* win only
* can have multiple runners in a race but must be win only i.e Lonhro 5 wins, freemason 3 wins, Clangalang 2 wins.
* $50 dollars max for day

I would add :

* A nominated best bet of $20 allowed with $10 each on 3 other races [ covers the best bet $20 idea ].
* late scratchings amount added to next weeks betting amount.
* Uni-tab prices
* missed weeks from comp. = minus $50 per week if more than one week in a row [covers the odd unavoidable absence].
* Start date Sat. 21.2.04

Everyone happy ?

Cheers.

PS. Turmeric's next start is his second up from a spell and we all know what happened on his last second up start !!!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2004-02-20 08:08 ]</font>

[umrum]

On 2004-02-18 17:35, crash wrote:


To these selected rules mentioned by Umrum:

* 5 operating races on a Saturday
* any state, any meeting
* win only
* can have multiple runners in a race but must be win only i.e Lonhro 5 wins, freemason 3 wins, Clangalang 2 wins.
* $50 dollars max for day

I would add :

* A nominated best bet of $20 allowed with $10 each on 3 other races [ covers the best bet $20 idea ].
* late scratchings amount added to next weeks betting amount.
* Uni-tab prices
* missed weeks from comp. = minus $50 per week.
* Start date Sat. 28.2.04

Everyone happy ?

Cheers.

PS. Turmeric's next start is his second up from a spell and we all know what happened on his last second up start !!!



ok sounds good.

Just clarifying is the best bet $20 optional. So you can have 4 races with a $20 best bet and three $10 bets(50 total) or 5 x $10 bets(50 total)

[crash]

Hi Umrum,

Best bet optional and as you just described.

It all sounds OK. We'll kick it off for Sat. with the rules on the first post.

May the horse be with you !

Cheers.

[Raw Instinct]

Hey guys sounds great and you have pretty muc answered any qustions I was going to post this morning but ran out of time before I had to leave for work.

As far as a point system goes if you wanted to do say just a tipping comp the only way you could do it fairly would be to add say a bonus point for every $10 the winner paid in other words if something paid $20 then you would get the normal 3 points plus an extra 2 for the bonus. It wouldn't be the easiest thing to keep track of though and could turn out to be very time consuming.

While I am at it if you were to do just a tipping comp you could also give say 2 points for 2nd and 1 point for 3rd no bonuses there if they don't win then bad luck.

[puntz]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-02-21 00:11 ]</font>

[Rogueman]

The tipping comp sounds like a great idea but the rules should be implemented in black and white for everyone to agree and read so there are no discrepancies. If others can join in i would gladly like to be in.

[Shaun]

I will be in it if the rules are clear....i like the T.O.P idea for the points highest for the day gets 3 points and so on

[crash]

Hi all,

The problems of a point system have been covered and a wild card as well as a best bet would only add complexity and possible confusion.

This comp. like the last one does not stop any tipping activity in other threads. Indeed, I think it only had 3 or 4 members still in at the finish last time. The comp. was won by William.

The rules posted here are based on the last comp. for reasons of familiarity. The betting is now even simpler by having a win bets only rule. A small number of additional rules have been added to address a couple of areas of fairness that came up.

Cheers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: crash on 2004-02-19 08:05 ]</font>

[sportznut]

Guys, any thoughts of nominating one feature race each week that everyone MUST tip in?
For example, this week you could pick the Blue Diamond or the Oakleigh Plate.

On the following saturdays, you could choose races like:
Feb28 Futurity
Mar6 Newmarket
Mar13 Canterbury Guineas
Mar20 Coolmore Classic
Mar27 Rosehill Guineas
Apr3 Golden Slipper
Apr10 AJC Derby
Apr17 Sydney Cup

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sportznut on 2004-02-19 11:17 ]</font>

[easy pick]

hey can i play


i'll use my A.B.C system.

[insidetube]

On 2004-02-19 09:01, sportznut wrote:
Guys, any thoughts of nominating one feature race each week that everyone MUST tip in?
For example, this week you could pick the Blue Diamond or the Oakleigh Plate.

On the following saturdays, you could choose races like:
Feb28 Futurity
Mar6 Newmarket
Mar13 Canterbury Guineas
Mar20 Coolmore Classic
Mar27 Rosehill Guineas
Apr3 Golden Slipper
Apr10 AJC Derby
Apr17 Sydney Cup

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sportznut on 2004-02-19 11:17 ]</font>
hi sports been reading all your posts and have to say u know your horses,very keen to start on your top weight system thanks for sharing all your thoughts and advice ty