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maverik
16th July 2004, 08:09 PM
I found this from the NSW tab site, http://www.racetab.com.au and found it extremely useful and interesting, and it's given me some ideas already, so i thought i'd post it here for you all so that you can also learn some :smile:

50 WAYS TO
HIT TOP GEAR
By Richard Hartley Jnr
Courtesy of Practical Punting Monthly
Australia’s Favourite Racing Magazine
http://www.practicalpunting.com.au




As punters I think we spend an awful lot of time dreaming up new ways to win, or perhaps just new ways to lose! Punters are, in the main, optimists and dreamers and receptive to new ideas, advice and re-programming. Trouble is, much of what they seek and find they then proceed to ignore. Going back to old habits, even bad ones, often seems easier than trying to meet the challenge of something new and unknown. For those of you seeking some revolutionary breakthrough, I am afraid this article will not be what you want. However, I fervently believe that you will be able to learn something to your advantage. Basically, I’ll be passing on some commonsense ideas and a few thoughts about getting your betting life into shipshape order. You can take as much on board as you like.



(1) SIMPLICITY

Let me start with idea No. 1 and it’s SIMPLICITY. I recall a conversation with my colleague The Optimist some time ago and what he said struck me as being so sensible. “Horses do what they have done before, exactly,” he said. And it’s true. A simple approach, then, is to ask whether a horse has done before what you are now asking it to do. There are worse ways to go about your betting. It’s methodical. The logic is simple, isn’t it? Back the horse to do what it has shown it can do. Used in conjunction with a minimum standard of consistency, this approach can prove very useful. What is a minimum standard of consistency? I would suggest a minimum of 20 per cent for the win and 40 per cent for the place, though some of you might like the bar to be lifted higher (say 25 per cent and 50 per cent).



(2) THE STATISTICAL EDGE

This means getting an advantage. If your horse starts at 4/1 and you secured 5/1, then you have an edge on the price. Over the course of a year, should you continue to take advantage of such an edge, you are more than likely to end up winning. There are various ways of getting an edge. One is to look for a sure thing at a short price and back it in an all-up with your selection BUT back the hotpot to PLACE and your selection to WIN. Let’s say you feel that Lonhro is a good thing. He pays $1.20 the place. You put $10 on and get back $12. This goes on your selection at, say 5/1. If he wins, you get back $72 for an all-round profit of $60. That means you got 6.2 to 1 for the 5/1 chance, an increase or edge of around 24 per cent.



(3) ANOTHER EDGE

If you have good information about a horse, you have an edge over all those punters not in possession of such information. If you really do know something, whether from a tip from an inside source, or just some key statistical detail, keep it to yourself.



(4) DON’T BET ODDS-ON

Hey, simple advice but how many punters ignore it at their peril? Your basic philosophy should once again be SIMPLICITY. That is, if you can’t win more than you can lose, then don’t bet. If your minimum loss can be 1 unit, then your minimum win must also be 1 unit. Even-money, that is. Just make that rule, never bet odds-on, regardless of the circumstances. This doesn’t apply to place betting, of course, because with that you have three chances to collect.



(5) BE HONEST

Sometimes we get so carried away by a horse that we can’t see the wood for the trees. We continue to blindly back a losing horse in the HOPE it will win. Hope is not enough. Logic says you must EXPECT a bet to win, not just hope it will. So, always be honest with yourself when you are assessing a horse’s form. Don’t cut corners. Assess each horse fairly and rationally. Good old commonsense comes into play every time. If you have a nagging doubt, and you know you are casting for fish in a stagnant pool, then opt out. There will always be another day. Another horse. A better horse.



(6) POST-MORTEMS

If you don’t discover why a horse lost, or why YOU lost, you have little hope of ever learning anything. It goes without saying that we should re-analyse a horse that has failed for us. We look not just at its performance on the day but where we went wrong in selecting it. If you choose and then bet a horse, fancying it very strongly, and it runs poorly, then something is wrong. It could be the horse simply failed, maybe it had bad luck. But it behoves you to look again at why you selected it, especially if it simply ran badly after getting every chance. Why were you so wrong? What deceived you in the form? Did you put the emphasis on all the wrong aspects? And, most importantly, what made you miss the winner?



(7) OVERCONFIDENCE

Dizziness due to success. A famous chess player once warned about this, and it’s something I feel punters should be aware of when the winners come rolling in, as they do from time to time. The lesson is to be extra-vigilant when you think you are getting well ahead of the game. I know a lot of punters who have blown big banks, sometimes when they changed their methods in the middle of a winning streak! Without being overcautious, don’t let enthusiasm get the better of you and warp your judgement.



(8) STICK WITH THE BEST

As in all forms of life, racing has its greats, its journeymen and its ordinary participants. It’s your job, as someone wanting to make money from the game, to choose the right people for the job. If you’re risking your hard-earned money, do you want an inexperienced boy to carry the torch? Do you want a jockey whose record shows a small percentage of wins? Do you want the horse to come from a stable that rarely gets a winner? I wouldn’t think so. My personal aim is to always try to stick with the strength. I reason that there are only a handful of powerful figures in racing, and they are destined to win more than a fair share of the races. I like my bets to carry that sort of “superstar” weight. When Damien Oliver, Glen Boss, Darren Beadman, Noel Callow, etc. are aboard, I feel better and if there are good trainers as well, that gives me an even rosier glow. You, too, should think carefully on this score. It’s one way of cutting back on your bets. Forget those in “minor” hands and wait for the horses that come from the power players.



(9) LISTENING AND REJECTING

The racing media being what it is, we are assailed daily with the views and thoughts of various jockeys and trainers. My advice is listen to them . . . but don’t take it as gospel. A friend of mine says we should always ignore what the jockey says. He doesn’t care who it is or what they say. His argument is this: They ride, that’s their job. Sometimes they study the opposition but who knows how carefully? Often they have never even been on the horse that they are talking about. So when you see Jockey X giving his mount the “rev up” on Sky, or predicting that it will win a major race, treat it all with caution. Weigh it up. Use your own judgement in deciding if the jockey has it right.



(10) ELIMINATE STRESS

If your betting stresses you out, then you are probably betting too much. That is, too much money and too often. It can mean you are betting more than you can afford. It means you are afraid of losing. It can mean your confidence is shot to pieces. If you’re at this stage, and racing has become less enjoyable than it was, then stop and smell the roses for a while. Have a break, build up your cash reserves again, re-examine what you’ve been doing, and when you feel refreshed then enter the fray again. But don’t return unless you’ve ironed out the problems that saw you under stress in the first place. Otherwise, you will end up on the same old merry-go-round.



(11) GIVE YOURSELF TIME

If you’re serious about this business, then give yourself time to do what needs to be done.
You know you have to study form but you can’t do it properly at work during a tea break, or even at lunchtime. Form study needs time and space. You need to think to make important decisions. So do yourself a favour and set aside some time each night to examine what’s going to happen the next day. Even an hour can be enough to look at two or three races in detail. You’ll be happier with the results than if you had simply rushed through the fields without proper analysis of every starter.



(12) PSYCHO PERIL

Psycho peril is the tag I give to that awful state of mind when confidence ebbs and you seem totally unable to get back on a winning pathway. It’s very true that when you lose confidence it can mean big problems. Betting is all about confidence, and so is the selection process. A punter suffering "psycho peril" will find himself unable to make definite decisions. He’ll to and fro over various candidates and inevitably end up backing the loser and rejecting the winner. It’s a bad place to be when this sort of mental blackness takes over. So what do you do about it? Maybe the first move is to take time off. I know it can be tough to call a halt to your betting, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet. A rest can help you clear your mind, and forget about the losing streak. You can return in a week or so, feeling refreshed. Another approach to beat the blues is to re-assess your entire approach. What are you doing wrong? Can things be improved? Why are you losing so many times? Are you making stupid decisions and forgetting about your normal approach? It’s important to answer these questions fairly and honestly.



(13) STUDY THE MASTERS

It can be advantageous to take stock and check out what the great punters of the past did to make themselves successful.
Pittsburgh Phil is an example. His maxims are important ones and well worth consideration. Let’s look at the major ones:
(a) Winners repeat frequently, while the beaten are apt to be beaten continually.
(b) Don’t believe you can beat the races without hard work.
(c) People who usually behave sensibly will behave stupidly once they set foot on a racetrack.
(d) Don’t win a lot one day and give it all back the next.
(e) Go about your business methodically and remain calm.
(f) The punter who loses his head, loses his money.
(g) Always have an opinion of your own. And stick to it.
(h) The only way losers can change their fortunes is by studying the form and analysing the methods of winners.
(i) Find out what winners know that losers don’t.



(14) HOW MUCH TO BET

This is a factor of our punting life that proves a constant worry. My suggestion is that you trust your own judgement when it comes to backing horses.
If you’ve assessed a horse as a 3/1 chance and it’s on offer at 10s, then get in there and back it.
Always, of course, bet within your means. Once you step aside the safety zone you’ll find that mistakes start to happen, and bad decisions happen, and you wind up with a "scared money" monkey on your back.



(15) INTERNET RACING

Racing fans can get just about all they need now on the Internet. What a change from eight years ago when PPM first went online with our website! Everyone’s on the bandwagon today, and that’s a good thing. The huge amount of information readily available has to be an enormous aid for punters. Check out http://www.racetab.com.au to and see the wealth of information available.



(16) LONG-RANGE BETTING

At PPM and the PPD Club on the Internet, we’ve proved that long-range betting, both win and place and doubles, can pay off handsomely. Maybe it’s time you forgot the doomsayers and had a go at this form of betting? It’s risky but the rewards can be enormous, as our esteemed editor Brian Blackwell has proved in the last couple of years.



(17) READING UP

We can never know enough, no matter what part of everyday life you are part of . . . and racing is no different. Read up all you can and then pick out the best bits. It doesn’t matter who says it, you can consider it and then accept or reject it. A bit of money spent on a $50 book may give you one GREAT idea that can turn you from a loser into a winner.



(18) AVOID LOSERS

You have a couple of fancies for the day and can’t make up your mind if they represent value. The temptation is to muddle around and try a few dollars on the first one, even though you’re not sure. If this is the case, stop yourself. Missing a loser is not as good a feeling as backing a winner but one of the worst sensations is backing horses about which you are not sure and which lose.



(19) BACKING MORE THAN ONE

If you’re a hit-and-miss punter who oohs and aahs when your fancy gets beaten by a horse you thought was the danger . . . time to think about backing two a race. When you strike a race where you think two or more horses represent value, the first thing you should do is review your analysis and confirm your opinions. If you are still convinced, then be prepared to back both horses according to the level of value that’s available. Ensure the combined odds are not too low. If you get 5/1 about the two horses in a race, for example, you are effectively backing a 2/1 shot. This will suit some betting styles but may be a little too conservative for others. The alternative is to forget such races.



(20) RUTHLESS VALUE

Always remember that taking "unders" is a long-term disaster area. If a horse isn’t value for money, then don’t back it. Simple as that.



(21) LONG-TERM VIEW

Take a long-term view about your betting. Don’t panic after a few losing days. Keep the goal in mind of an annual profit.



(22) MOMENTUM HORSES

A form idea is to keep close tabs on what I call "momentum" horses. These are horses who improve sharply from run to run. Their winning form is good form. Lonhro has been an example. Many other top-liners fall into the same category. Just keep on backing these smart, formful horses. Look for horses able to accelerate at the end of a race; those that can put a race beyond doubt in a few quick bounds.



(23) RECENT FORM

No matter how you approach racing, the formguide reigns supreme. And there are lots of them around, in paper form and on the worldwide web. Recent form is the form that needs your closest attention. Form from a year ago may be relevant in a minority of instances but it’s recent form that gets the winners.



(24) STATISTICS FACTORS

Get a good grip on the statistical side of racing. It will pay to have in the back of your mind certain factors that make racing tick day in and day out. Examples: 85 per cent of all races are won by horses that had their last start within the previous three weeks. More than 60 per cent of winners ran between first and fourth last start. Around 66 per cent of all winners are in the first three in the morning betting market in your newspaper.



(25) THE ANGLES

It’ll pay to keep in mind that you are betting against your fellow punter. You need an angle that he doesn’t know about. If you can find a new angle, you may find the horn of plenty.
Racing is all about angles on this and that aspect of form. Most angles have been discovered, used and mostly discarded. Can you find a new one? Statsman did recently with his amazing High 5 system. There are still lots more winning angles to be discovered from the formguide. Spend some time checking out aspects of form that you feel could lead you to winners that produce a long-term profit.



(26) REALITY CHECK

When betting, learn early that you can’t back the winner of every race. If you’re really good at selecting, you may back about three winners every 10 bets. More than that, and you really are doing exceptionally well. Not that MASS of winners means profit. If you’re getting 40 per cent winners at evens, you’re losing 20 cents in the dollar. You need ANY AMOUNT of winners whose odds total enough to give you a profit. Thus, if you can get 20 per cent winners, you need an average price per winner of 4/1 to break even, and 5/1 to make 20 per cent profit. This is a tough ask. It can be done, but it’s tough. It needs work, which I’ve stressed as one of the ways you can hit top gear . . . through hard work.



(27) CHECK OUT THE CHARTS

What do I mean by the charts? I’m talking of the turn-and-finish pictures in the Sportsman, which cover Melbourne and Sydney city meetings, and any results charts you can obtain, with full finish positions. You can learn so much from looking at the camera charts. Where was a horse on the home turn, and where did it finish? Check out the stewards’ report for the race, and, if you can, take a look at the video replay. You’ll soon have a full idea of what went on in the race and which horses you should be looking out for next time around.



(28) MAKE UP YOUR MIND

One of the first lessons I learned in betting was to make up my mind and not waver at the last minute. Those collywobbles just before the "off", which often see punters change their minds, and their bets, can, in the long run, prove disastrous. I recall in the late '70s changing my mind with a couple of minutes to go, and running off to bet the favourite instead of the 12/1 chance I’d been intending to back! No need to tell you which of the two ended up the winner.



(29) CLOSE YOUR EARS

Never listen to "advice" from someone you’ve never seen before, like the bloke in the pub who earbashes you. Why should you listen to him? For all you know, he’s lost a fortune betting on the races.



(30) BET WITHIN YOUR MEANS

Never bet beyond your means. Simple as that. It’s something that needs to be said twice in a series like this one, because it’s so important. Once your betting gets out of hand . . . it means trouble.



(31) PATTERN SEEKING

Try to work out patterns in a horse’s form. It’s amazing how many horses have their various campaigns worked out in the same fashion and how often they manage to stick to the script!



(32) KEEP A JOURNAL

Most people can’t be bothered keeping a diary. Serious punters should make themselves work at such a thing. Having a day-to-day diary of your betting adventures will ultimately prove enormously useful. Write down what you bet, why you bet it, and what happened. You’ll soon begin to understand yourself more as a punter and be able to correct the mistakes that will leap out of the page.



(33) BODY LANGUAGE

Why not make more of an effort to understand the physical complex-ities of the racehorse? If you can look at a horse and know when it’s fit, then you’re giving yourself a nice edge over the crowd.



(34) HANDLE LOSING STREAKS

Make yourself aware of the perils of the losing run. Even if you have a win-strike rate of 25 per cent, there’s a 5 per cent chance that you will encounter losing streaks of at least 11 and a 1 per cent chance of a losing run of 17 or more.



(35) SYSTEM WATCHING

Don’t be like some people and dismiss systems out of hand. All approaches are systematic to some extent. Systems, even very simple ones, can be effective. Why not test out this one: If the favourite is unraced, back the next horse in the betting that has raced.



(36) KEEP UP YOUR SPIRITS

Don’t fall prey to pessimism when you’re on a bad trot. It’s important to be optimistic, positive and ready to take risks at any time in your betting life. Black moods, feelings of hopeless-ness are of no use. If you get really down in the dumps, stop betting for a while, think about other things, refresh yourself.



(37) SINGLE WIN BETS

For the simplest approach, stick to single win bets at level stakes.



(38) MINIMUM ODDS

The great UK professional Alan Potts says you should maintain a minimum acceptable price of 2/1, and this advice makes good sense. He also says you should think twice about any bet at under 4/1. Potts wins big money year in, year out; he knows what he’s talking about.



(39) DISTANCE BETS

Why not concentrate on a distance range? Many professionals say they bet only on races at 1600m and further. They claim you need a lot more luck in sprint races, while in the longer races something can go wrong but a horse has the chance to overcome the trouble and win.



(40) AVOID THE FIRST RACE

Why consider letting the first race go by? This gives you the chance to observe the going and any effect of the barrier draw, especially on days when the track is affected by rain.



(41) NO BETS, NO PROBLEM

Alan Potts is a great believer in this maxim: No bet is no problem. Unlike most punters who seek action in every race, serious bettors know there is no problem in missing a race, even missing a meeting. As sure as the sun rises, there’ll be more race meetings, and easier targets than the ones you have missed.



(42) SMALL BUT USEFUL

Don’t ignore the minor trainers who take on the "big boys" in major races . . . give them respect. The logic is simple: The small man needs winners to make his name and to retain his owners and to simply survive.



(43) NEGATIVE LISTS

We all know it can be very helpful to keep a list of horses to follow but it’s also a good idea to keep a list of horses to oppose! Some horses are born losers but they run well enough without winning to keep punters coming in on them time and again. Check out these non-winners and put them on a blacklist.



(44) CHECK YOUR APPROACH

You really need to set up a proper approach with proper goals for each year’s betting. Think about the following:
(a) What are your profit expect-ations?
(b) How many bets will you have?
(c) How many losers can you afford?



(45) MONEY SKILLS

Develop your money skills. That is, your money management skills. The punter MUST manage the money, not the money manage the punter. Placing of bets and the amount of the stake must be decisions taken in isolation and not based on the results of previous bets, says Alan Potts.



(46) REALITY CHECKING

In the move from mug punter to professional punter the hard part is always facing up to the reality that there will be more losers than winners, more losing days than winning days, more losing weeks, and so on. Understand this. Record all your bets, analyse them and put everything into perspective.



(47) BIG-RACE CHECK

Some professionals never feel happy if they bet on a big race and leave out a really great jockey who is riding everything to victory. I know pro’s who will always take savers at least on big-race riders. An example was in the Melbourne Cup: A professional friend backed Jardine’s Lookout but took savers on Glen Boss and Damien Oliver. It paid off. "I just couldn’t not back these blokes in a major race," he says.



(48) PICK 'EM BLIND

My pal The Optimist says he never looks at pre-post prices when he is working out the form. It’s something for everyone to consider. "It influences the thinking too much if you see the market beforehand," says The Optimist.



(49) PLACE HAS ITS PLACE

If you’re a punter who hates risk, then go for place betting. Go for doubles and trebles, and consider using The Patent, an English method of 3 singles, 3 doubles and a treble.



(50) THE FINAL AIMS

So, these 50 points come to a conclusion. Bet safely, but don’t shy away from a risk or two, pick your betting spots carefully, have a proper approach with a proper target in mind over 12 months, study the form . . . and make your decisions with care and good sense.

kenchar
16th July 2004, 08:31 PM
Bloody Hell Maverik you must be good on a keyboard, I would have lost 2 days punting typing all that, unless you cheated and copied and pasted. :smile:

maverik
16th July 2004, 08:54 PM
cheated hehehe.. i printed it out originally thinking it would be one of those documents i would glance at then forget about it but i started reading and couldn't stop. thought it was great.. hence why i copied and pasted it in here :smile:

darkydog2002
15th November 2005, 01:58 PM
Not a bad set of rules there.
Cheers.
darky.

Mark
15th November 2005, 02:46 PM
I thought rule 2 was good...and then read rule 4. A contradiction. Even with 3 placings, $1.20 is still odds on. Then rule 37, another contradiction.

Best rule of punting, have rules but be flexible.

crash
15th November 2005, 02:53 PM
A little bit of copyright infringement there Maverick :-)

I've bought the mag since it first started in the 80's. Outside their systems claims spin [hey, they gotta make a buck], there is a wealth of info. A great effort and they even write good banter. I like the mob.

Chrome Prince
15th November 2005, 03:01 PM
Well done Maverik,

But as usual, it's got more holes than my nanna's stockings!

Most pieces of advice will lead you to doing exactly the same as everyone else and you'll wind up backing the favourite.

(1) SIMPLICITY

By backing horses that have only done what they've done before, you miss the very best overlays available - horses stepping up in grade and distance.
Remember we are looking to make a profit, not pick winners.
Horses that have not won first up before also are lucrative pickings.

(2) THE STATISTICAL EDGE

Only if your prices are accurate, on many occasions the market is more correct, so getting $6.00 on a $5.00 shot could be a flag that you've missed something. Not every bet is an overlay.

If you really do know something, whether from a tip from an inside source, or just some key statistical detail, keep it to yourself. or sell it? :D

(4) DON’T BET ODDS-ON
This doesn’t apply to place betting, of course, because with that you have three chances to collect.

Place betting is far worse value in general than win betting, I do not know of any place betting system that outperforms win betting over 1,000 bets.
There is nothing wrong with odds on betting providing you can make a profit from it.

That'll do for now.

BJ
15th November 2005, 03:09 PM
Rule 2 is just a joke I think.

You only will gain an edge if the $1.2 for the place is a certainty. If it is a certainty, then why bother with backing anything else. Just mortgage the house and plonk it all on at $1.2, how can it lose?

xptdriver
15th November 2005, 05:22 PM
Rule 2 is just a joke I think.

You only will gain an edge if the $1.2 for the place is a certainty. If it is a certainty, then why bother with backing anything else. Just mortgage the house and plonk it all on at $1.2, how can it lose?

Talking of place betting, I dont see any real need to take odds on... I have been playing around with a place betting idea, on Betfair, where I don't take any less than evens for my selection.. A couple of weeks ago I got Deveraja Daan in adelaide at better than 9 bucks.. I think It paid about 5 on the NSW TAB. That is just one, but I think if your selections are reasonably sound, you WILL make money betting the place, be patient and dont take odds on.. you don't need to. If no one wants to match what you are asking... so what?.. move on... I think where place betting falls in a heap is when people take the 1.2, thats 5's ON, and the horse fails to run a hole.. It takes a lot of odds on runners to recoup the loss...

And to make any decent money at 5's ON u need to invest a heap... Try sticking to place betting in the black, particularly on Betfair... U may be surprised.. THO last saturday I got 21.6 on a place getter in the last in Melbourne ( was my 2nd rater in the race) with the NSW TAB... The best price matched on betfair was only about 14 bucks.. so it does still pay to keep a tab account going at times... particularly if you like longshots... quite often the TABS pay more.. Just something to consider...

Imagele
16th November 2005, 09:00 AM
And to make any decent money at 5's ON u need to invest a heap... Try sticking to place betting in the black, particularly on Betfair... U may be surprised.. THO last saturday I got 21.6 on a place getter in the last in Melbourne ( was my 2nd rater in the race) with the NSW TAB... The best price matched on betfair was only about 14 bucks.. so it does still pay to keep a tab account going at times... particularly if you like longshots... quite often the TABS pay more.. Just something to consider...

G'day XPT.
So Brom Felinity, previously placed in a C2 handicap at Kyneton carrying 53kg, was your 2nd rated selection in a G4 handicap for mares at Sandown carrying the same weight.
A very interesting rating system indeed.
I am almost convinced to throw away everything I have ever learned and start again.

crash
16th November 2005, 09:12 AM
I've been messing with the place bet too. Winners paying between $2 and $4 [or even $5] often pay up to 50% of the win price on the TAB. The spring carnival is a great example of unusually high place prices. Check em' out.

darkydog2002
16th November 2005, 09:20 AM
Sometimes we have to if the old way is not working.

Cheers.
darky.

Imagele
16th November 2005, 09:27 AM
would certainly be a major change to accommodate the likes of Brom Felinity.
I could understand it being someone's selection.
Hard to come at it being a rating.

xptdriver
16th November 2005, 10:11 AM
G'day XPT.
So Brom Felinity, previously placed in a C2 handicap at Kyneton carrying 53kg, was your 2nd rated selection in a G4 handicap for mares at Sandown carrying the same weight.
A very interesting rating system indeed.
I am almost convinced to throw away everything I have ever learned and start again.

Now Now Now

cynacism does not suit you... the ratings file is still available for dload if you don't believe what I am saying... U do your ratings your way I do them mine...

The horse had 3 starts.. in the money twice.. (now 4 for 3) . 1 go at the distance... Now 2/2 and in the money...

In that race there were a few horses that had finished in the placings last start.. I would have thought that would be just something normal, to include in any ratings... There were only 2 last start winners... Vintner which started at the tight odds of 66/1 and Talons Shown which started at 15/4F. Brom Felnity started at 15/4 at it's last start and ran 2nd .. Pin up the fav (also the horse I had on top) for the race started at 9/1 last start after finishing close up 2nd in similar company.. Irongail ran 3rd at its last effort at 14/1 in a listed.. this is the same horse that could not catch Careal Boy at Wyong in listed company... Charmed Lady ran 2nd at its last go at 9/1.. Kingston Bird ran 2nd at 9/1 in a restricted race.. The winner, Umber's form was far from impressive finshing 5 lengths from the winner in an open on Cup day at 12/1 at it's last outing...

As you can see 2 of the three place getters ran a hole last start.. Kingston Bird paid better than 4$ and Brom Felinity 21$ As I said L/S finishing position figures in a lot of ratings.. I think Brom Felinty was the horse on the UP, whilst a lot of the others have either reached their potential or were on the way down

I have mentioned in other threads that Last few SP's and beaten lengths plus a few others are components of my ratings ( i am not going to give you the recipe).. I have also said that the weakness or maybe it is the strength ( you cant argue with 21$ the place, 2nd rater) of my ratings is that It does not take class rises/falls into account.. I do not subscirbe to the rule that horses should race in their own classes or lower... The horse doesnt know what class it should be in.. it just goes out an runs, whether it is 1/1 or 100/1... It just runs

Listed company is not that exalted I am afraid, call it GR4 if you like.. and the winner of the race was nothing flash, it's formlines suggested that..

I hope u have better understanding of how my ratings can throw a horse like that up from time to time..

One thing I forgot when I first posted this.. was that the race we are talking about was a race restricted to mares...

If you are not being cynical... I apologise for making that assertion, but that is the way that I read you post

Imagele
16th November 2005, 10:32 AM
Yes, I was being cynical.
Incidentally, my selection (not rating) in this race was Umber. I note that you refer to Umber's recent form as uninspiring.
Consider this: 6/15 beaten 6L behind Matras Caul. mares hcp. carrying 57.5kg
6/11 btn. 4L. G2 hcp. Moonee Valley behind Niconero.
8/14 btn. 5L behind Candy Vale , Flem. mares hcp. 56kg.
Compare this formline to a horse that placed in a C2 hcp. at kyneton carrying 53 kg and I think you would have to reassess your opinion.
Of course opininon has nothing to do with ratings based on a mechanical formula and I understand that.
With due respect I think that Brom Felinity's placing was a fluker's event without any particular relevance to ratings.
Brom Felinity could well go on to be a very good horse.

xptdriver
16th November 2005, 10:45 AM
Yes, I was being cynical.
Incidentally, my selection (not rating) in this race was Umber. I note that you refer to Umber's recent form as uninspiring.
Consider this: 6/15 beaten 6L behind Matras Caul. mares hcp. carrying 57.5kg
6/11 btn. 4L. G2 hcp. Moonee Valley behind Niconero.
8/14 btn. 5L behind Candy Vale , Flem. mares hcp. 56kg.
Compare this formline to a horse that placed in a C2 hcp. at kyneton carrying 53 kg and I think you would have to reassess your opinion.
Of course opininon has nothing to do with ratings based on a mechanical formula and I understand that.
With due respect I think that Brom Felinity's placing was a fluker's event without any particular relevance to ratings.
Brom Felinity could well go on to be a very good horse.

Well done for finding Umber ( 42 starts 3 Wins) You sure looked hard... That figure alone puts a red line thru it for mine... but hey... each to their own

No I would not be inclined to change my opinion based on those numbers.. The horse which you appear to be looking down at, was on the UP in my opinion.. It was untried in that sort of race so figured well... It has done nothing wrong so far, so no convictions.. can't say the same for the winner

I will take the 'flukers event' at better than 20/1 the place anytime, particularly when I have given it a chance in the race..

I hope u had a stack on Umber .. good 4 you.. but why question what I did? I am not questioning your method...

Imagele
16th November 2005, 12:12 PM
I don't bet in stacks X.
My other winner for the day was Cayambe, recent form, 7-4-5-12.
Just missed with Drumbeater around $12-80 for the win.
Did you have Zigotto rated near the top.? paid $7-60 for the place. Recent form, 1,1,2.

xptdriver
16th November 2005, 12:33 PM
I don't bet in stacks X.
My other winner for the day was Cayambe, recent form, 7-4-5-12.
Just missed with Drumbeater around $12-80 for the win.
Did you have Zigotto rated near the top.? paid $7-60 for the place. Recent form, 1,1,2.

Actually, had zigotto on top... I thought I was home on that one

crash
16th November 2005, 02:11 PM
XPT,

I've always been very impressed with your ability to churn out useful ratings. I wonder if you can have a little look at the below [aus] link about ratings and see what you make of it. By Nick Albury member of Ausrace forum. He's not selling anything [except 2nix bet monitor on another link]. His rating ideas seem astute but I'm not sure if I can get this old head around how he works out his initial ratings that he lines up. You might.

http://www.twonix.com/twonix/library/Ratings_Odds_1.PDF

Hope you find it as interesting as I did.

Cheers.

xptdriver
17th November 2005, 01:08 PM
Gday Crash

Just got back from work so I will have a looksee and let you know what I reckon