Is anyone in front?

[moeee]

Can anyone say,in all honesty,that they are in front in any form of betting over the last 12 months?
And what do you do with the winnings?

[Mr J]

Yes. I reinvest all my winnings and take out some for expenses.

[AssumeTheCrown]

I am under pressure to win because I punt for a living. No winners means no food on the table. My main worry is whether to declare my winnings to the tax office. How do other professional punters on this site handle their tax returns? I am assuming that money made on the punt is tax free, so therefore i never submit a tax return.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AssumeTheCrown on 2004-08-23 23:23 ]</font>

[Floydyboy]

Whats your Tax File Number >>>>Ill get it checked out for you :lol:

[jakelee]

Not infront this year.

Living off last year's winnings. Did OK on Greece in Euro, and on taking large margins in the RL. Plus I stopped going to the dish-lickers, and that cut some of my income :sad:

Have taken some real baths on what I thought were sure bets. Like Mike Tyson.

From what I remember, this is what the ATO says about personal gambling and tax:

* If gambling is more than 20% of your (not sure what the correct fraction is, about 20% I think) income, you must declare it as an income

* If you make money from gambling, via an automated process, or by way of calculations that are not pen and paper (ie, computer program, etc), then you must declare it as an income



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jakelee on 2004-08-24 08:43 ]</font>

[Mr J]

Are you asking whether you have to pay tax, or whether you just need to do the paperwork?

[Mr J]

BTW, taxing income from gambling is very unclear. I've done alot of searching, and can't find an answer.

All the cases were for racing, and I was under the impression that income from racing was treated differently from sports/casinos.

The ATO has tried to make pro's pay before, but from what I can tell they weren't successful in any of the cases. Not sure how a real pro would hold up (who is organized, keeps very detailed records etc). If you were creative you could probally get out of it.

This is something I keep meaning to look more into, since if it's not taxable you really should let the ATO know how you make your money (unless you want them to assume you're a dealer).

If we do end up having to pay tax, there are easily ways around it but I'm not about to say it here.

[Dan]

Apply for a private tax ruling from the ATO. There's a very good chance they'll declare you don't have to pay tax. There was someone on ausrace a few weeks ago who doesn't have a job so his sole income is from gambling. His turnover was about 3 mill/year but the ATO ruled he didn't have to pay tax. A private ruling covers you for 3 yrs then you reapply.
I think the ATO would be reluctant to declare your income as taxable because you could then deduct all your expenses and losses. They probably figure you just had a lucky yr and don't want to risk you making big deductions the next yr if you lose.

[AssumeTheCrown]

Thanks for your informative replys Mr J and Dan. I am of the opinion that a "winning" punter cant be taxed because If this were the case then the 90+% of losing punters would then have a case to claim losses.

I also believe that I contribute my taxes with the TAB's Takeout and the turnover tax of the corporate bookmakers I place bets with. If I was ever pulled up I would say I was just having a lucky run, which i might be. But how long does a lucky run last for and how long can one not have a "real" job before the ATO become suspicious?

[Baloo]

Hi moeee, rabbitz & co. Sorry but I've been moving house so been away - but now I'm BACK!
moeee, how can you ask if anyone is in front? You cheeky boy, you and I both know, that unless Hawks lose by 96 pts or more in r22, you and I will be pocketing over $2000 PROFIT. (more if you punted more than my suggested minimum)Now remember, I'll be cheering for Geelong.....not Hawks mistakes ok? I love yous all.

[Merriguy]

Mr J and all --- the Ausrace Forum has treated of the tax angle time and again. Look up the extensive archives.

[Shaun]

http://www.murdoch.edu.au/elaw/issues/v2n2/kee222.html

take a look at that for information on taxes

[AssumeTheCrown]

Thanks Shaun.
Makes interesting reading.
Cheers.

[Mr J]

Shaun, read it ages ago :wink:

Merriguy, couldn't find their forums?

I think professional gamblers paying tax is a grey area. I say don't worry about it until you have to.

[AssumeTheCrown]

I have not submitted a tax return for a couple of years so I am wondering when the ATO are going to investigate me. Hopefully never.

[Merriguy]

Mr J., try

http://home.it.net.au/pipermail/ausrace/

[AssumeTheCrown]

Thanks MerriGuy.

For others that are interested click on the link in above post and look for "Taxation of the professional punter" in the May 2004 section.

Cheers

[Mr J]

Thanks for the link.

[AssumeTheCrown]

Also check out "No tax" in the August 2004 section on the above link. Makes very interesting reading.

Cheers

[Northerly]

My accountant told me a while back that I didn't have to declare any winnings until gambling is your No. 1 income source.

I am in front for the year. I don't bet anywhere near big enough to stop working full-time. If I wasn't married and had a mortgage, I'd have a go full-time, when your single you have less to lose and you don't answer to anyone. I only wish I'd got into betting more seriously earlier (I'm only 34, so there's still time).

[Mr J]

Well I'm glad turnover isn't an issue as I've turned over 7 figs in the last 4 months alone.

I bet on sporting events that I'm not an 'expert' on :wink: so that works in my favour.

Sure, gambling for me is PURELY pleasure :wink: It's good that all the sports I bet on are shown on cable.

Any winning are just a bonus.

Yes, I am unemployed. I see no reason to work since I've been such a lucky punter :wink:

Yes sir, there is much chance involved. I lose nearly half the time.

[moeee]

Dad looked after you pretty well,did he then?

[Mr J]

???

Mo I make my own way.