Backing horses to lose

[Neil]

One of the absurd arguments against Betfair and other betting exchanges is that punters can profit by making money on a horse not winning and this will lead to corruption.

That is absolutely crazy, inconsistent logic because it is already happening with sports betting on the TAB.

You know - when a TAB offers head to head betting on say a game of tennis. By backing a player to win punters are effectively making money by the other player not winning. In a head to head contest it is no different to laying the other player to lose. Except that the TAB is offering the odds and making the profit overall.

It is also the TAB that gives NOTHING BACK to say the AFL or other sports for using their intellectual rights. If the TAB was consistent it would be giving 5% to 6% of turnover to all these other sporting organisations for use of their intellectual property.

[lomaca]

[quote]
On 2004-10-19 20:33, Neil wrote:
One of the absurd arguments against Betfair and other betting exchanges is that punters can profit by making money on a horse not winning and this will lead to corruption.

Hi Neal! I was listening to the wireless (radio) this morning also, and found the arguments brought forward by the TAB spokesman extremely amusing. We DO have a system here, where we bet against the winners! By pouring money on horses we think have a chance we shorten their prices therefore the prices of lesser chances increase, so if you are game to bet on longer odds you go for them!!! The whole argument is Monty Phyntonist.
The only reason is money!!!! TAB!!! get back to a realistic level of takeout and you have nothing to fear!

[Neil]

Hello,
I don't think your example is quite the same. Backing a longshot is not like effectively just laying one horse to lose. But betting one player or one team in a head to head sporting contest is effectively no different to laying the other to lose.

If the TABs wish to be consistent they should abandon all betting on head to head sporting contests. Will they?

Of course the real issue is money. Everyone sees their massive income threatened by betting exchanges.

One argument I found quite interesting was the TAB saying how dependent Racing was on its income. I believe racing managed just fine before TABs ever started operating.

[bwheatle]

For your interest, this is a copy of a letter I've sent to the Financial Review tonight. Will be interested to see if it's published?

TAB Vs Betfair

How many times have we heard this story before?
'Protect us from the evils of golbal competition'.
All sorts of bad things will happen, and if we believe Tabcorp's chief executive Michael Piggott , even "a jockey having a shotgun pointed at his legs and told he'd be kneecapped if he won a race".
Of course, such diabolical happenings won't occur so long as the status quo is maintained.
What a load of beeswax!!
Didn't work for my textile business, why should such arguments work for Tabcorp?
Still, Tabcorp has considerably more to protect than I ever did.
They enjoy profit margin's I'd only ever have dreamed about. Not stock to carry, and better still been allowed to take advantage of the technological leap we've enjoyed and the dramatic increase in turnover without having to pass on one iota of the savings back to their customers. Their 'margin' has remained intact. Wouldn't we kill for a business like that!! Maybe not kill, 'kneecap' perhaps!
But, as they say in the classics, all good things must come to an end. Trust a global competitor to throw a spanner in the works.
Simple solution? Kneecap the global competitor. So far, has worked with the NSW and WA State Government's who, on the advice of their racing ministers have rolled over easily to the vested interests. Not to mention their own vested interests in gaming income. As to the interest of their constituents? Why should they care?

Since when did State Governments determine the terms of global trade anyway?

Fortunatley, our Federal Government has more spine. The quantum leap in technology has ushered in a new world on many fronts. Tabcorp has the choice of going down kicking and screaming, or getting with the progam. As we all should have learnt by now, yielding to the bellyaching and arguments of protectionism by the various TAB's, Racing Bodies and vested interests to stop the clock simply won't work,

Name withheld.

In the event that you publish this letter, albeit in an edited version, the only reason that I would prefer to have my name withheld is that I hold accounts with TAB's and they have the right to close accounts soley at their own discretion. This would be an inconvenience.

[moeee]

Being from the southern states,I don't know for sure,but I believe Queensland is infested by cane toads.
Introduced to this country,it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Like speed cameras,Don't know if the government could run without the financial support of speed cameras.
We got something that works.Why throw it away?

[dundas lane]

Seems that Betfair has again been awarded the "ogre" of the month prize!, and for what possible reason?

If you want to bet head to head on the Cox Plate this weekend, just pop over to a well known online betting agency and try your luck.

The odds are there for all to see.


dundas lane..........

[Chrome Prince]

Hi guys,

It's only a matter of time before the TABs compete with the Exchanges once they realize that Exchanges are here to stay and what punters want.

I cannot foresee a TAB exchange per se, but more realistic would be a set lay price for a runner.

At this point they continue to expand on fixed odds betting more and more.

The convenience of betting with the TAB will probably outweigh the better prices and red tape of Exchanges.

[umrum]

The annoying thing about this is the non-racing people commenting on it negatively like steve qaurtermaine. On the panel he bagged it but didnt mention any of the positives of betfair. Then the average joe on the couch thinks betfair is dodgy. I think it's quite irresponsible. If your not fully informed you should say I dont know the ins and outs of it all etc etc

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: umrum on 2004-10-21 12:07 ]</font>

[Mark]

Yes Umrum, I saw that too. They made a joke about how easy it would be to make money from losers.....like to see them try.

[topsy99]

i back a lot of horses that lose.
how come i am not winning.

[Mark]

Lay them Topsy, then watch them win! :lol:

[robert99]

From the UK perspective, we do not see it as an all out war with just one winner. Betfair has its small market share for serious punters, our TAB and on and off-course bookmakers have theirs. Racing attendances are well up and the gambling and prizemoney cake is growing year on year. Integrity has really been tightened up. We are quite happy for Australians and the whole Far Eastern market to keep on betting with Betfair UK as the 5% fees and most of their bets stay in UK. Your TABs are not only robbing you they are robbing the country.

Robert

[allanby]

Perhaps the Uk / other countries will stop the TAB's / bookies taking bets on their sports, i doubt very much the tabs are syphoning money back to them as fees......ie premier league

Betfair, great product, innovative, and because the greedy scum here didn't think about it they are pissed off and will try anything to stop it....well stiff cheese, it's the way of the world works and good luck to Betfair/exchanges i say!

We as punters/traders need our voices to be heard, otherwise the greedy element will get their way as per usual,then once again it will be a back to the old days of struggle for many.

Cheers

A.

[robert99]

A,

Being that vindictive is not in our nature.
We want open and fair trading opportunities for all.

Paying these use-of-product fees from offshore can only be sorted by negotiations or international trade agreements - despite what your loony tunes state. If the TABs etc would like to cough up some back fees I can provide an address.

Why don't you just take an interest in UK racing and offshore sports? You don't have to shop where they give bad service and rip you off.

Robert

[Floydyboy]

Lay em and watch em win haha ya got that right....was sailing along nicely last year laying under $3 then the favs started dropping out of the skies flashing down the outside wining by a nose winning on protest my little world collapsed around me so I bailed ....
I Bloody love Betfair for a 5% fee on profits to be able to obtain prices sometimes 10-20% better aint a bad deal and sports betting of all sorts and a forum thats full of smarties cos theyre dealing in big dollars .I can honestly say that since ive been using Its the first time in all my life that Ive had half a chance of being in front on the punt...... the bookies squeal like stuck pigs because they cant manipulate the market like they used to why take 9/2 when you can get 6sor 7s somewhere else ..... Onya B/F ya got me
Whats the latest on the move to get something happening out here

[Mr ed]

I cant see betfair affecting the TAB's profits all that much. I know i never bet on the TAB and i'm sure many other punters on this forum would not either. Why would serious punters bet on the tab when they can get best TAB or, best flux so on. Only serious punters use betfair so profit will be leaving the large betting agencies not the whingeing TAB's. Competition in the market can only be good for punters its time the TAB's to accept this and try to win some market share back by lowering their percentage takeouts, because at the moment Betfair has a distinct competitive advantage and dont the TABs know it.

[umrum]

The argument is flawed because if punter A "backs a horse to lose" he needs punter B to match the bet i.e "punter B backs it to win".

[Mark]

Courtesy of another racing website.

The Moonee Valley Racing Club is celebrating a record Carlton Draught Cox Plate day.
Final figures released on Wednesday indicate a massive combined total betting turnover of $43.8 million surpassing the 2002 record by a whopping $1.9 million.
And extensive client satisfaction surveys conducted by MVRC on the day proved conclusively that the club delivered a memorable day for patrons.
“Carlton Draught Cox Plate day has reached dizzy new heights, with the fact that Tabcorp achieved record turnover, bookmakers turnover was highest ever and on course tote our second highest,” said MVRC Chief Executive Officer John Cameron.
Betting on the Carlton Draught Cox Plate race was up a staggering 83 % on last year.
This figure is largely attributed to the outstanding quality of the field of 13 runners in this year’s race.
The evenness of the field sparked wide media interest, both nationally and internationally, in the lead up to Australasia’s WFA Championship.
The field, that included 11 individual group one winners, provided a wonderful racing spectacle and equated to glowing financial results for the club.
Tabcorp’s Chief Executive of Wagering, Michael Piggott, said: “Cox Plate Day had it all – great racing, terrific crowds, atmosphere and glamour and all the excitement around Savabeel’s wonderful win. It’s fantastic that so many lovers of racing got behind the Cox Plate this year.”
More than 32,000 people attended this year’s Carlton Draught Cox Plate – an increase of 15 per cent on last year.

Hang on, I thought Betfair was ruining racing???? So much for that argument. :lol: