Roulette

[jinxycroupier]

who wants to know the truth. i know i really do. first of all it is totally possible to win at roulette but that does not mean its easy. it is also possible to predict where the ball will drop assuming you know what you are doing and take into account the fact that even if you find a section spinning croupier the is still a chance the ball will bounce to much or hang on the inside of the wheel for a few spins.

i will say it now, i am a croupier. and i am getting quite good at landing the ball where i want it. yes its possible dont try and tell me its not cos i can do it. atm after establishing a base spin on my 1st spin, usually about 30 times round the wheel. after that i can start to predict where the ball will go i can normally get it withing 5 numbers either side of where i want it to go. this is more than enough accuracy to beat someone who is chasing my numbers. but back to winning. if you happen to find a trainee dealer they tend to spin about the same speed ball and wheel each spin this can make the ball drop into about 8 number on the wheel with a stupidly high amount of accuracy. and makes it very profitable. with an expierianced dealer yo uwont get this. and they will be trying to beat you they wont just be spinning randomly. i think its easier to win also if the table is full. the dealer is much less likely to be able to section spin on a full table as there is no point where ever it lands someone usually wins. out side bets are pretty much pointless and serious players dont even bother with them. i cant think of anything else to say really. hope this made for an interesting read.

[Mr J]

I know what you're talking about, and this is one of the ways I always mention when these fools come here talking about betting systems.

The ways to beat roulette:

1. Rigged game (ie dealer shooting for your section)
2. Flawed wheel (don't even bother)
3. Prediction using physics, almost only done with a computer. These do actually exist but they are illegal. I believe it's 1 year in jail and/or a $10k fine.

Now croupiers aiming for the empty sections of the wheel, is that because you guys are evil or because the management encourages it? If you find an experienced dealer and bet on the emptier areas of the table will they still try to screw the table or move to just wanting to screw you?

Peronally I wouldn't think the dealers & croupiers would want you to lose. You'd want to work in a positive/friendly enviroment. I guess that's why I'd assume it's the management encouraging it.

[Mr J]

ah yeh, it's probally good if you told these guys (as a croupier) that betting systems (by that meaning just varying betsize or basing a bet off previous results) do NOT work. They seem to think that maths doesn't apply to them.

[jinxycroupier]

why. well it depends, if i am dealing to a high roller i wont think twice about trying to take all his money. but you get some people in who aint trying to come in and win loads of cash and that being the case i usually dont bother to try and beat them i will even try to help them a bit. it depends on how i feel. management dont like high rollers to win for obvious reasons. but even though i can place it for the most part. you have to factor in that sometimes it does not fall well. it can bouce too much or roll round the wheel and then it can go anywhere. also i am still quite new to the game and even when i try i dont always do it. yesterday infact i buggered up span number 18 on a no game someone came over. cos i was on a no game i was not even trying at all to place my spins. he bet on 18 and its neigbours cos i had no bearings i span 18 again. oops lol he had 25 quid on each number and took 1500 off me total after about 20 spins.

[thefan]

I love roulette. Its my fav game at the casino. Theres only 3 ways to win at roulette and that is.
- luck
- discipline
- a proper system
I dont play at tables anymore,I dont like the dealers to see what Im betting or the public. I prefer rapid roulette or in other words computer screens in front of you with the dealer in the middle. I stay away from numbers for my main bets

[Mr J]

fan, you are right. You need good luck if you are using a betting system :wink:

Rapid roulette using double zero right? Great invention. Much high turnover with a higher house edge than normal (most aussie wheels seem to be single zero) which means more $$$$$ for the casino.

I'm not gonna tell anyone of these guys they can't beat roulette without using one of the methods I've mentioned. I'm just going to let them lose everything they won and then some. They seem to think the mathematics of gambling doesn't apply to them. They seem to think they can beat the house by just varying bet size or adjusting based on past results, but they are all fooling themselves. Casino's are built for the sole purpose of taking your money. It's funny how money can make so many people so foolish.

edit was I called these people stupid but that might offend some people so I changed it to foolish.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr J on 2004-10-30 20:15 ]</font>

[thefan]

I admit at the start I did lose to roulette.This was because of discipline. It was hard to walk away. I ve learnt the only way youll suceed is to look at a dollar as a real dollar.
Ive stayed away from the casinos and stuck with clubs. Single zeros exist there.
Correct when you said that casinos are made to take your money. Ive heard a thousand more losing stories at a casino than a winning one. For those whove won, down the track greed took over them.
A rule I stick to is once ive reached my target, ill buy a drink and leave asap.
I dont know why some members on this forum say roulette cant be beaten. I dont wanna make a fortune out of it. Ive stuck with my system and my target is $150. i cant see where you can make $150 tax free in under 2 hours. Its a better target than going for the thousands and risking everything.

[BJ]

I still don't get why some people don't think you can win at roulette...

It is as simple as changing your bet based on past spins. Simple... The hard part is finding what percentage to raise and lower. I have done it and it works fine. If you pick the right percentages you can win about 80% of the time. You just have to make sure that in those times you win more than when you lose.

Anybody that suggests that the casino have a constant edge therefore can never be beaten in the long run, are kidding themselves.

I ask one question: "Why does the casino have a bet limit?".

The answer is they didn't always have. It is because people using systems beat them so they had to change the rules. Martingale for example.

So why is it such an impossibility to beat it.?

[thefan]

Limits are there so u dont keep on doubling up in your favour. That systems useless and will fail in the long term. The losers of roulette r those who throw money all over the place. They only depend on luck. I use probability,and previous results(no bs but youll need em even though its true ppl say u cant exactly pin point where the ball will land.But with results u can play with the odds.)
Im not an idiot like some ppl and think 6 blacks so a red will eventually land.

the key to suceeding is combination+probability+discipline

[BJ]

I know you can bet on every spot on the table and win. All through bet manipulation.
I prefer the even bets particularly red/black. If you know the probability of a certain number in a row and you have a system that can beat it you can win. I am not suggesting to anybody to double up on anything. Was merely pointing out that it was a successful system, and these systems revolutionised the game by bringing the maximum bet to where it is today. What it did was say, yes we can be beaten, and when we do we will simply change the rules...
Instead of doubling up and when you have 1 win you are in front, why not increase a little slower and cash in on a few of yours in a row...

All this is presuming you have a truly random situation. A dodgy spinner unless on a packed table or a mate of yours would not be a situation I would 'gamble' on.....

[moeee]

I suggest that the reason people believe they are doing just dandy at the roulette wheel,and other forms of gambling,is that we tend to remember our winning sessions and suppress our losing episodes.
And that is the reason us unsuccessful gamblers choose not to keep a running record of our financial situation.
We are in fact kidding ourselves!

[thefan]

The fact that ive walked away more times wiht wins and losses at roulette points out to me that I must be doing something right. I remember losing at roulette,this was when ive actually reached my limit and decide dto leave but in my head it just said one more and i started breaking my rule of bets

[Mr J]

No, the people who know roulette can't be beaten with any of the methods you have suggested because roulette is a negative expectation game. You ARE playing a neg EV game. This is a fact. The longer you continue to play roulette, the more likely it is that the house odds will overcome you.

Making sessions shorter doesn't make a difference. Changing your goals doesn't make a difference. If you are playing a neg EV game, you are likely to lose, simple as that. You guys really are fooling yourselves.

[BJ]

Mr J... It confuses to me as to why you frequent these forums. Roulette has the best odds going. What you are saying is that you cannot win by gambling. You are allowed to have an opinion, so why isn't anybody else? If you don't like the game, I suggest that you don't partake in it. If somebody says they can beat it, who are you to say they are lying?
Another question, if you can't win at gambling, why frequent a forum called 'smartgambler'? You are contradicting yourself.

[Fernando]

Moeee, thats why its very important to keep a running record of all gambling if trying to profit. If punters do not keep a running total losing money musnt be a big concern. Someone out to have fun perhaps add some spice to watching sport may forget about running totals because its more work and maybe not a very good read. There is good information lying in our previous results.

[moeee]

2 things.
To Mr BJ.Mr J did not say you can't win at gambling.It seems the very opposite is the case as he professes to be financially dependant on his ability to win at Gambling.
He said you can't win long term at roulette.
Know the difference!

And Fernando,I think people who can control themselves and treat Gambling as entertainment and therapy,are the real winners.Regardless of whether they actually are profitting financially.

[BJ]

For someone to claim that they make a living off gambling and at the same time say nobody can do the same playing roulette is quite questionable. He has a right to an opinion as does everybody else.
If somebody comes here and claims that they can beat roulette they must be wrong because Mr. J disagrees?.....
All forms of gambling are the same. They are designed so the punters lose. This doesn't mean however, that all punters lose. If you can beat one form,, why not another...?

What makes Mr. J so special anyway? He says this and that and everyone just bows down and accepts it... Roulette provides the best odds of all gambling, so if you cannot beat roulette, you cannot win at gambling....

[Floydyboy]

Mr J from my impression works on latrge turnover and small margin grabbing small percentages here and there but on a regular basis and he makes a living from it and most of the facts and figures he puts on here are either well known or can be verified ...I dont bow down to mr J nor do other people on nor do i want to put in the time and effort he does to make his money >>>> I like to bet to entertain myself when i cant afford it I dont do it .........but what he says about casino games etc is true ....you will lose in the long run ...........if you want to stick your head in the sand go right ahead ...... but heres a tip and its free .... you are wrong ...live with it ..........they dont keep clubs and casinos going with beer and resurant sales ....

[moeee]

BJ.
It's not an attack on your credibility.
It's great that you are making a profit from the casino.
It's just mathematics and probability say that you can't continue doing this forever.
The odds of continuing on your merry way rise proportionately to the amount of time you continue playing.

And personality wise,Mr J can come across a little bit harsh sometimes.He tends to be very black and white.

[thefan]

this roulette thing is split two ways. i know alot of gambler work on return percentages. That plays a part as well but the truth I suck at backing dogs/horses.Your correct when u say clubs dont only survive on beer and spirits.
There are gamblers there who love pokies, and roulette players who are there to find a miricle which they dont. I come to play roulette to walk away with a reasonable target,and I do. The single zero doesnt bother me. Within my system I back the zero. Roulette pays out 35-1 where I play. My target is $150. Couldnt be that hard to aim for that.

Im sorry but I dont care what all the critics say about roulette.I lost more money on racing. Ive profit big time with roulette.

So u guys who dis roulette can guarantee me I make a comfortable livin playing whatever u play. No form of gambling is safe proof. Look at this weeks soccer results. Sh1t happens.

[Mr J]

BJ, as moeee stated, I have NEVER said you can't win at gambling. I also NEVER said that you can't win at roulette. You can win at both, and you can (more importantly) gain an edge at both.

Winning while gambling is a given. It's just that without an edge, you are very likely to lose more than you win.

You are confusing win with having an edge. Anyone can win at gambling. I play a hand of BJ, and dealer busts. I win!!! But does that mean I can keep winning? No. To do that, you either have to be extremely lucky or have an edge.

To win at roulette longterm, you need an edge. What I'm arguing is that you can't get an edge based on something like a betting system. There are other ways to win, and I have stated what they are.

"They are designed so the punters lose. This doesn't mean however, that all punters lose."

That is what I argued above. Most will lose, some will win. However, the longer those winners play, the greater the effect the odds will have, and most of those winners will lose.

"He says this and that and everyone just bows down and accepts it"

No, this forum has plenty of arguements, they're just normally constructive (unlike this one).

"Roulette provides the best odds of all gambling, so if you cannot beat roulette, you cannot win at gambling...."

Roulette does not provide the best odds at all. Blackjack is generally where people will get the best odds, with an average house edge of 0.5 to 0.6% in Aus. This is playing Basic Strategy.

However, you can get even better odds (enough to give you an edge, and turn the table of the bookies and casinos). You do this by using a method of advantage play. This includes card counting, cheating, roulette prediction computer, handicapping (analyzing for racing & sports), sharpshooting (craps), video poker, poker etc etc.

If there is a way to gamble, there is probally a way to beat it. It's just that most people don't know what it takes.

BJ, I'm arguing strongly here because I know for a fact that betting systems do not provide an advantage, and so gamblers are unlikely to profit longterm.

If people are profiting at roulette, then good for them. I'm just making them aware that they don't have an edge, and gambling without an edge almost always leads to losing.

[Pugnosis]

Just joined this forum and was reading all about this hotly disputed debate on whether roulette can be a winner for gamblers. What I would like to see from thefan is for you to post this system that you preach highly about.

It will not ruin your profits and may give your comments a heap of credibility.

Anyway just a suggestion

[Mr J]

"Mr J can come across a little bit harsh sometimes.He tends to be very black and white."

True, but that's because gambling is very back and white. Either you have an edge or you don't. Bet long enough with an edge and you are very likely to profit. Bet long enough without an edge and you are very likely to lose.

With roulette, I have provided the facts, it's up to other people to decide for themselves. Good for them if they see they light, and good luck to them if they don't.

When I first started gambling (using a progression on blackjack), I thought the same say as some of the guys in this thread. I met some sharp guys, and they said exactly what I say now. I wised up and looked at betting with an edge.
I'm really doing these guys a favour, in that they might not have to learn the hard way. In the end it's up to them.

[thebookie]

There is no argument here. Mr J is correct.

I used to work as a dealer also-you can spin the ball pretty much wherever you want on a section of the wheel (as you can on the Big Wheel). This is the only way you can win at roulette in the long run-no system can beat the maths.

jinxycroupier, I don't know where you work, but, for management to instruct you to try and make punters lose is just a bunch of crap-and if you're doing it off your own bat, then you're just a prick to try and take advantage of your poor, dumb, addicted, uneducated fellow punter

BJ, I think you need to check your maths mate "Roulette provides the best odds of all gambling, so if you cannot beat roulette, you cannot win at gambling...." umm hello???

thefan, "Im sorry but I dont care what all the critics say about roulette.I lost more money on racing. Ive profit big time with roulette.

So u guys who dis roulette can guarantee me I make a comfortable livin playing whatever u play. No form of gambling is safe proof. Look at this weeks soccer results. Sh1t happens."

Mate, good luck to you! We're simply saying that in the long run it is a mathematical fact that you will lose. No argument. You're right-no form of gambling is foolproof, but, if you continually take "overs" (as opposed to the "unders" you are taking at roulette) and you use a proven staking plan, you will win.

It all depends on how good your initial pricing is...

[Fernando]

So the next question would have to be what staking plan are you using and what is your initial pricing structure?

[thebookie]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to volunteer that sort of information in depth...

And it obviously depends on the sport and event as to how you do your OWN prices. Everyone has their OWN method. One thing I will repeat, is that you CAN'T BEAT THE MATHS! You have to make it work for you.

As for staking, I think everyone should read Kelly's work...

[thefan]

On 2004-11-01 12:37, Pugnosis wrote:
Just joined this forum and was reading all about this hotly disputed debate on whether roulette can be a winner for gamblers. What I would like to see from thefan is for you to post this system that you preach highly about.

It will not ruin your profits and may give your comments a heap of credibility.

Anyway just a suggestion


im not gonna prove my point by telling the world. I know that Ive beaten roulette with my system. Roulette has beaten me because Ive used other bs systems out there. Ive spent countless hours at roulette watching the ball land. You guys will probally say every spin is unique. TRUE!If you think the house has the edge,think again. In my system zeros are backed to back up the system. I can go on all day about how Ive taken literally bundles of money from roulette. Long term Ive profited.All I can say is ppl r telling me longterm I'll lose out.
Besides roulette can anyone tell me a form of gambling that you have actually profited from long and short term. Ill give that a shot then???
Ive searched all areas of the internet and have not found my system in existence.

[Mr ed]

Whoever disagrees with anything Mr J is saying is an absolute mug. Just because you may make profits even long term profits using staking plans, without using one of the methods outlined by Mr J you are walking a tightrope every time you play. Unless you are a very good acrobat (extremely lucky) you will fall off and thats when you break your bank and your balls.

[Mr J]

No point Mr Ed, they're not about to listen. Let them learn the hard way :wink: