OZmium Sports Betting and Horse Racing Forums - Automated bet placement help

stugots

6th November 2004, 10:24 AM

to import tab prices from unitab (also works with victab with a few small differences & i havent tried nsw as yet)

1. set unitab as your home page in internet explorer
2. open a blank excel workbook
3. from the Data menu select 'Import external data' then 'new web query'
4. wait for the unitab page to load then select the race you wish to import
5. once the race page has loaded you will see a number of small yellow arrows next to each field that can be imported
6. click on the arrow next to 'No.' field - that being the line above the horse numbers & odds etc
7. this should turn the arrow green & highlight all the runners
8. select import at the bottom of the 'new web query' window & choose where you want the data placed
9. you will now have a list of all runners odds, weights etc & the odds can be refreshed by selecting 'refresh data' from the 'data' menu

if you run into any problems then highlight all the imported data & delete, then repeat the above. On occasions the 'refresh data' screws everything up
&you will need to start again.

also you can setup a formatted worksheet so that when you import the data, for example, all the odds at dispayed with 2 decimal places etc.

I would be happy to email the worksheet I use to anyone who is interested.

Stugs

[ This Message was edited by: stugots on 2004-11-06 11:27 ]

[ This Message was edited by: stugots on 2004-11-06 11:33 ]

ubetido

9th November 2004, 11:13 AM

Hi all

I recall reading somewhere that you can infact set a betting price as a minimum eg $5.00 with one of the major betting sites. So if it stays under no bet. If its $5.00 or over the bet is placed. Not sure if it was IAS or not.

Does anyone recall or know of this.

regards
ubetido

[ This Message was edited by: ubetido on 2004-11-10 14:15 ]

jacfin

10th November 2004, 12:40 PM

Stugs
I'd appreciate a copy of your spreadsheet.
jacfin@mail.nu
Thanks

shy

12th November 2004, 08:17 PM

TwoNix program UBet looks sensational, but at $2000-$9000 per year, is just not in my ballpark. As I already know my selections, a cut down version that just price qualifies and places bets is all I need. I guess at the moment I have to be satisfied with catching what I can.

Bhagwan

12th November 2004, 08:34 PM

Bookies who offer SP prices usually have this facility.
There`s a program called Racemate ,I think that can do it on any TAB in the country ,provided you have an A/C with that TAB

It can show & bet ,at the best price of all the TABs at once

zeditave

12th November 2004, 10:25 PM

Shy - simply use Betfair!

With IAS you can set a minimum price for a bet, was only available by phone last I heard

puntz

13th November 2004, 01:07 AM

It is extremely difficult to define an approach to a betting system.

The best programs I have ever used and still to this day I base these principles from those programs, are in DOS, and other computer languages now obsolete.
But they work and work extremely well.

The problem is, "progress", and the programs become useless as time moves on.
But if one goes full circle, it comes back to these basic programs every time.

If you want to use the markets and market fluctuations, now we have the internet. Beofre it was the teletxt where one program I know of, you had to type in the numbers and the calculation was done, but it gave you the calculation required for selections and hedge unit amounts,correctly.
This program is now useless, there is no teletext as it was before.

OK, so import prices. Yeah, and ?
Can't import those prices to an obsolete DOS based program, but one still wants the calculations done by that same program.

Then there was another updated version of a similar program. This automated what the manual program did. It scanned the markets and did stuff.
Now that is obsolete. It still works, and still can be modified, if one can get to the code.
The next option, approach a programmer to "make it happen".

Programmer has clients all wanting a program to "do stuff".The clients have various ideas and formulas etc, so what does the programer do ?
If the programmer has 50 clients all wanting their own version of a racing program, does that programmer develop 50 different programs ?
Or does he/she develop one basic program where user friendly code can be utilized ?

Object orientated coding is an option.

Then this starts a whole new ball game. The "punter" now has to learn to write code to develop their architecture.

So the "objects" are:
1.The Market
2.The TAB
3.The Internet for prices or other scources , to gather prices.
4. Form vendors.
and possibly other things I have not thought of.

Object Orientated coding is possibly a key to developing systems.

It can tie all the above in a bundle at anyones disposal, but who is going to learn how to write this code ?
Who can pay someone to write the code ?

There are no tutorials specific to satisfy the minority in this area.
Use google and type in "Object Orientated Code".
Nothing there specific for to suite the first 4 basic requirements.

Let me know if anyone can find something, and surely the next step is possible.

stugots

13th November 2004, 08:45 AM

puntz, i appreciate what you are saying, all i would add is that if one can clearly state the objectives & requirements of ones desired betting "program", then those objectives & requirements can almost certainly met by someone with a sound knowledge of excel,lotus etc.

after all what lies behind all these $10k "racing programs"? - a spreadsheet, a data base & a word processor, integrated into a neat package.

whilst i dont use a "system" as such, i have developed a mechanical method for "doing the form" which requires about 5-10min of data entry per race (tedious work at times which is often worthwhile & regularily not!).

now what i need to do if find a way to import that data directly from the net (for free of course!), a task which has proven difficult so far...any help anyone?

Management

13th November 2004, 09:19 AM

Dear Puntz,

Our Moderators are under instructions to remove software promotions from the forum.

Our Forum Terms of Use do not permit free promotions of commercial software otherwise it would be open slather for all sorts of unscrupulous vendors to promote their software on the forum.

It is a common practise for unscrupulous vendors to post on the forum claiming to be satisfied users of their software, or to get a discussion going ask whether anyone knows about the software. Then they register with another user name and promote the software.

So these posts are promptly removed.

Thank you for letting us know about the software. As you have mentioned that it is a very good product, we will have a look at it and then discuss its promotion on the forum with the programmer.

Management.

puntz

13th November 2004, 02:18 PM

OK
I can write a paper that will alllow the formation of a structre to add ANY program's function to work in harmony.
What Shy is asking is exactly that, and possibly a refelction of what many require.
Yes, it DOES cost alot of money to pay people to sit and write program code.
There IS a program that does just that anyway, all you do is write a code and the program excecutes the function.
But it ain't mine and it ain't my bat, so to speak.
Just gonna have to wait when the owner of that "bat" is ready.
I have done all I can.

KennyVictor

13th November 2004, 03:33 PM

I'm a programmer and work in a database language that has a very basic ability to interact with the internet. Stugs and Puntz have pretty well summed up what a programmer needs in order to create a custom program and also highlighted one of the main drawbacks.
I take advice from customers pretty frequently and the hardest part of the job is finding out what they really want. They will say they want a program that does this and when you've written it they will say "Did I say that, no that will never work, I really wanted it to do this." I imagine writing a program for a collective of punters with their own views on what they want the program to do would be a nightmare. (You could end up with as many software options as windows and be dead before you worked out how to make a bet the way you wanted.)
What I usually ask is how would you do this job manually and then try to automate a person's manual system.
Coming back to Shy's original post it looks quite an easy job. He enter's his horses and acceptable prices, the software logs in to IAS and downloads their prices and if they match up OK the software sends a bet to the selected bookie (assuming the bookie sight is enabled for automatic bet placement otherwise it would be rather more difficult although not impossible).
There are always problems of course. Shy enters his Kiwi horse's name as xxxx NZ and IAS happens to call it xxxx (NZ) so the two can't recognise each other. Then no doubt a week after the program was written one of the sights would update their software or change the format of their data or something and the program would need altering to accomodate that. I don't envy anyone who is trying to write a program which accesses the net (you wouldn't believe how crap the data on the net is) and has to please a group of people who all have different views on what it should do.
Anyway, although I'm not a specialist by any means on writing internet based programs I know enough to say "forget thinking of getting a program custom written". Too expensive. But I wouldn't mind betting there is a program out there somewhere which will do exactly what Shy or anybody else wants. There usually is and it's just a case of being lucky enough to look in the right place. Oh and of course being able to afford it when you find it. Because net based programming for diverse tastes is such a pain in the arse I suppose it's bound to be expensive.

puntz

13th November 2004, 04:30 PM

Then it it's goes back to what I once posted,
a proper open source concept with a proper GUI licence. No one owns it, but every one has it.
Where there are parameter settings, then they set to 0 (zero), it's up to the punter to adjust the parameters from a smorgasboard of options, plugged into this "mainframe".
Software supplied by TAB's to send bets, that is the cost of the person that wants the bets to be sent that way. But that software plugs into the GUI mainframe.
Internet prices ?...there are more options that the internet to get prices.
The code is the key, to stitch up the components that plug into this utopia mainframe.
The list goes on....

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-13 17:39 ]

Shaun

13th November 2004, 04:55 PM

The WA tab allows you to send text files to there computer...WA tab is tied in with Stab if you want to use that...easy to get a program like excel to generate the text file for you then you just need to send it

puntz

13th November 2004, 05:08 PM

Shaun, yeah, but if you were to ask me to "get excel to send a bet", I have no clue whatsoever how to get excell the send a bet, but like the average punter,we all want the bet sent.
That's what the GUI concept is, what ever is the best method at the time to send_bets, it's there on the "smorgasboard" as a component.
<bet sender,written by shaun>
<market scanner,written by XYZ>
<etc etc...,written by...?>
Why re-create the wheel ?

But, my selections and your selections, Moe,larry and Curly's selections all differ from Bud's and Lou's selections...

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-13 18:51 ]

Debug

13th November 2004, 05:45 PM

There is another option to try for anyone wanting a program to their own specifications without spending a fortune and that is to look for a low cost program on the net which is close to what you want. Contact the programmer and ask if the program can be modified to your own personal specs and at what cost.

Most programmers who write racing programs usually have a range of modules to cover the standard program and is often just a matter of "clipping" modules together and modifying or building an additional module.

puntz

13th November 2004, 06:03 PM

Debug, that is the point.
A mainframe component where it's a GUI.
Anyone can have acces to it and do modifications, then submit the modifications.
We call the GUI component for arguments sake,
The PuntHole. (TPH)

TPH on it's own does absolutely nothing, except maybe show current market and an updater.

If then a programer has a specific task program, let's say "Hedge calculator A".

Hedge A plugs into the TPH, AFTER it is paid for by the person that wants to use it.

Hedge calculator A may have a competitor, B
sold by another company or programer.

Both A and B hedge calculators are TPH compatible.

TPH has a code to stitch components specific for the punt into the same punthole mainframe. Any fixes for TPH are done by anyone who may give a damm.
win/win
Hedge calc A and B get sold, and both can plug into the GUI TPH and the TPH is a free download.

puntz

13th November 2004, 06:55 PM

crazy ideas i guess

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-14 10:14 ]

stugots

14th November 2004, 10:59 AM

On 2004-11-13 19:55, puntz wrote:
crazy ideas i guess

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-14 10:14 ]

not at all, food for thought in this minefield.

talking of automation using excel i currently -

1. import the field & odds
2. set excel to update the odds at any time frame i choose
3. using simple macros show all market movements, monies bet, etc etc etc
4. filter for my selections & generate a file listing my selections & bet amounts, which then is imported direct to unitab, allowing me to bet a close to the off possible.

other than my initial data entry for form analysis, all of the above takes about a dozen mouse clicks with the only keyboard typing being to enter my account number & password to logon to netbet. also eliminated is the risk of backing no5 instead of no6 because the hands are a bit unsteady the morning after the night before.

price to anyone that wants it - $10k - (just kidding) :smile:

puntz

14th November 2004, 01:39 PM

Na,
I am only trying to "hint" what is required from my own expirience.
I used excell to plan what I would want a program to do.
I still use excell to make different strategies and fomulas. Then these can get coded into a base program like I have mentioned.
The problem is, the program is not mine, I cannot do anything about that.
BUT, a TPH, (The PuntHole)can be established to plug in any module anyone wants. Look at web browsers, they are nothing but a program that the internet connects to, or vise-versa
Your HTML code web page has to be compatiable to connect to the browser. The browser is free !

Same thing with a TPH, it's GUI, free and fixed all the time till it's right by whoever.

OK, so betfair was mentioned, betfair plugs into a TPH, or betfair is "TPH Compatible"
(an option)
What other Plug-ins others have is of no concern. But betfair (obviously) will charge a fee to have their data download into the TPH module.
The trick is still, the code used for scripting to stictch the TPH and betfairs data feed and the datafeed to any other components that one may have plugged in.

TPH/Betfair/excell/back to betfair/send bet.
(if it could all be a simple as A/B/C/>BET>>
lol

THAT code is the key to making this all work.
I have read up on all this by doing a google search, type in "object orientated program code"...
It's suppose to be user friendly,yeah, it is, but for most other business,doctor,laywers etc.Nothing for the punt, yet.
A forum then is where the FAQ's get asked and solved on this code.
Need I go on ?

puntz

14th November 2004, 01:56 PM

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-20 09:27 ]

Debug

14th November 2004, 02:08 PM

Punz,
Just to get a handle on your idea is this the type of thing you see….

A mainframe program that has two functions.
(1). It takes the TAB prices off the internet and puts them out to a file - we can call the "Prices" file. This file would have the race identifier, TAB number, runner name, win and place prices. The file would be updated regularly as the TAB prices change and can be picked up by a spreadsheet or any other program.

(2) The mainframe also picks up a file that has bets from a spreadsheet - we can call it the "Bet" file. This file has the race identifier, TAB number(s) with betting units and win or place bet. The mainframe job is to pick up the file and format the bets ready for the TAB.

So anyone with a spreadsheet or their own program that has a copy of the mainframe does not have to be concerned about getting TAB prices or setting their bets up for the TAB. All they have to do is pick up the "Prices" file and after they have done all the number crunching and whatever put the bet information into the "Bets" file which will be collected by the mainframe program for action.

puntz

14th November 2004, 03:40 PM

Debug,
Yes,but...

1.The prices can come from any source.
There is a very different "quality" of prices coming from the internet than coming from direct data feed,(paid service).

By "quality" I mean the delay,the amount of information..(and i may as well follow the rules or I'll get a deleted post) but I cannot name the companies that supply data thru decoders.
Once that data is in the mainframe, then anything else can be plugged into that mainframe and utilize the data on common ground.

The plugin does not have to know where the data came from, the mainframe fixes that into a common file, so all chosen components can read the data if need be.
For simplicity, lets say a hedge calculator with some "bells and whistles".
I don't realy want to create hedge calc., I would rather buy one, plug that in the mainframe, and use the prefered prices from the mainframe, and that hedge calc would then show me the amount of units to bet with.

But we want more.

Once we know what units to bet with, the bet needs to be sent.

Whoever can make the better module to connect the unit amount to a bet sender.

Some bet-senders are supplied by the TAB.
But code needs to be obtained to connect the the unit amounts from the calculations made by the hedge. Code is required to activate the module that sends the bet.

One can then create a complete module that does it all, provided it can plug in to the mainframe.
Piece by piece from many programming developments, they all are compatible to a TPH.(mainframe)

If one does not like the module(hedge calc,) or wants to try something else, simply unplug the purchased module and try another.

2. The "spreadsheet" does not have to be a spreadsheet,but one can use a spreadsheet if they want to.
Plug in a compiler and the common code can be compiled to "do stuff". Where the spreadsheet ends, code takes over.

The option is "when".
Then a plug-in for TPH or compile a code possibly a "timer" or somthing, will send data to the spreadsheet at whatever intervals one may require.
I don't have all the answews,but
no one has yet to say it can't be done.
These ideas come from the tedious repetetive tasks I know from some expirience and why most systems fail.
It's about eliminating repetitive tasks done by those wanting efficiancy while betting.
I know there might be some who are probably thinking to make their own mainframe.
You will fail,cos who is going to pay for the time it takes?
GUI is the option I think

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-14 16:47 ]

puntz

15th November 2004, 06:57 AM

I guess the next step is to go thru these ideas posted and correct the terminology and condense it to something that paint a clearer picture of the concept.
What's GUI ? I thort it waz the licence for the open source software thing.
When I looked it up, it meant "graphical user interface"
OK,
Does it work ?
Then I learnt what I am realy trying to say is, the TPH is actualy a "mainframe"
OK,that sounds like the box the computer pieces bolt on to.
So if you programmers see what's here, it would be appreciated to correct the terminologies and perhaps this concept could have a better chance.

KennyVictor

15th November 2004, 10:06 PM

In broad terms Gui just means a windows type interface where you point (with a mouse) at things, copy and paste, move stuff around, etc. As opposed to character based which is what older Dos type programs were. You entered in your numbers or whatever and the program showed the answer on the next line down.
I had a quick look using - "open source" database - on Google and it showed some languages which might be suitable to program what you are proposing. MYSQL is pretty popular I believe but I'm not familiar with it so I really don't know if it has all the capabilities (web access etc). I'd be surprised if it didn't.
The basic idea of an object oriented approach with a central module which has databases to store races, prices, etc and other add on modules which access and download data from tab sights, send bets, transfer data to excel or whatever seems pretty sound and very do-able to me.
Unfortunately, my area of expertise is not with object oriented programming. I work with the old fasioned character approach still and haven't had much to do with the sort of languages which we need here.
I'd say anyone with the right area of expertise could make the central module from what's been said on this thread.

KV

puntz

16th November 2004, 07:23 AM

http://www.brainyencyclopedia.com/encyclopedia/f/fr/free_software_foundation.html

"Never give up"..

who said that ?
W.Ch ..

puntz

20th November 2004, 08:13 AM

Shy,
I have contacted RedHat,
all we can do now is wait, and hope...

Shaun

20th November 2004, 10:28 AM

Puntz i know what you are after and yes it would be nice....and if i had the time i would try somthing with Visual Basic but i really feel that excel can do all that you want if you find the right place to get the prices and can format it for the automatic uploads

puntz

20th November 2004, 11:03 AM

Shaun,
I have already got a model of what shy is asking/dreaming.
But I cannot and will not divulge what it exactly is due to legal contracts,verbal agreements and "gentlemans honour".
That's the way it is.
End of story.
===================

BUT, I can at least assist towards a similar module in principle,provided it's a free basic mainframe to accept plug-in's and private/public/other modules,including mine.
win/win for all.

The ONLY option I see, is to go down this path.
Your excell help would be appreciated to, it is where I started this "walk" thru hell and back.
And, where excell was no longer able to performn certain functions for a proper proffesional system, code and programming took over. And STILL data is able to be transfered back to excel.( If i knew how to write this code that is.)

Your assistance would be of much help however, becuase to "prove sums", it must be proven in excel first. Then if need be, programmed/coded.
Otherwise programmers will not waste their time with "what if this works" when it comes to race programmes, I think.

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-20 12:40 ]

shy

20th November 2004, 12:07 PM

Sounds very exciting Puntz :smile:

I wonder if it might be prudent to walk backwards with this objective. There is a myriad of software/Excel ability to handle selection, but the stumbling block (at least for me) is the ability to place a bet automatically with a bookie site, conditional to market price (not their prices). The crux of the matter will come down to these sites allowing bet automation to take place. The fact that they don't offer this themselves is possibly an indicator of how they feel about it. Also, are there any legal/tax implications of automated betting? The other question is if anyone would be prepared to make available to others a module that may be blamed for real-time losses.

Betfair has been mentioned, but my difficulty is that my final selections are based on being under a certain win price close to the jump... and then getting the best possible place div. For my style of betting (fairly boring to most of you I'm sure!) - I find the final market one of the strongest indicators of result. Then getting value for the place makes an enormous difference to my profit.

I will be eager to hear of any progress Puntz.

puntz

20th November 2004, 12:47 PM

shy,
First things first, who/what recvieves the bets is way down the track.
But to get it going, at least the programming trials can be done with what is currently available. There is usualy alot of trial and error during development.
But if there is a online bookie that wants to provide auto-bet software made available to, I am sure they could have a "plugger" to the TPH in future,if this concept has a future that is.

puntz

20th November 2004, 02:36 PM

shy,
any progress will come from this post if there is a demand from the punters.
My advice for now at this stage is to design what you would like to have a program do,leading to the bet send. (the logic according to shy)
Then seperate what is "public" and what is "private".
Bold ideas can be "public".
Up to you what you define as "private".

[ This Message was edited by: puntz on 2004-11-22 09:29 ]

Grand Armee

11th September 2007, 08:27 AM

Hi all - was reading through this forum and found this very interesting thread, which is a couple of years old now. Has anyone taken this any further?

I'd essentially like to know if anyone knows of any way to automate the "batch betting" option on the SuperTAB and NSWTAB websites. I have programs which create bet files, but sitting in front of the computer on a Saturday to manually click "submit batch file" etc to the TAB is a pain in the posterior. Does anyone know of any automated method of placing a batch bet file with the TAB?