question for you guys

[system]

where do you get your speed and weight ratings from.
cheers and a merry xmas to you all.

[zorro]

I get my speed ratings by calculating them myself - whether they are better than some you may buy is arguable but I am sure the process of calculating them is more satisfying than forking out bucks to someone else!

[system]

ok sorry if you dont get them from other source can you tell me what mechanics you use to calculate your speed ratings.thanx

[pepsi]

I get my speed ratings by calculating them myself - whether they are better than some you may buy is arguable but I am sure the process of calculating them is more satisfying than forking out bucks to someone else!

Merry Christmas to all

I have purchased a few different books on creating your own speed and pace ratings but most dont work down here for lack of info, may i ask what model do you use to create your own ratings speed or pace ratings.

thanx

[pepsi]

ZORRO

If you dont want to post a response to my askings feel free to email me
giuseppemoncada@hotmail.com

Cheers

[DR RON]

When I do weight based ratings I use either ozeform ratigs or the ones on the tamanian tote site, both are quite good. Obviously which run you choose as your base rating will make or break you. I was comparing both ratings for several horses the other day and while there is a direct correlation between both, there does appear to be some differences for some ratings. For example a runners ratings might be something like this for its last five starts:

Ozeform Tasmanian tote

54 580
52 560
49 525
55 610
46 415

As you can see the last rating is the lowest in both but the proportioning is different compared to the others. Any coments welcome>

[brave chief]

DIY,

i've been experimenting with the sportscolour sectionals for a few months now; atm i'm adding an early pace rating into the mix as well as the closing sectionals.

[system]

dr ron this is where im having prob diffrent sites diffrent ratings and which 1 to use, should i use last start horse had in the class it racing today e.g class 6 and todays race class 6.
but most important what are these sites using to create there ratings.are they all using same critera.

[DR RON]

System,

I guess the only way to find out how they create their ratings or who they get them from is to ask them. Whether they give you an answer or not , I dont Know. As you can see from the example I gave, there are some classes of race where they use either a different figure or they start with a base figure for that class and add or subtract a point or two depending on how strong or weak the race is, this is where things would start getting complicated, if doing your own ratings. All you could do is look at a race and the horses in it, see whether those horses rated in future events and then decide whether the race in question was a strong or weak one. Thatis why I use the free ratings given by some websites. Each provider of ratings will say there the most accurate but I guessits just trial and error.

I use the most recent run that compares to todays run. But by this mean distance and going, and if its in the same class then thats a bonus. Once againit comes down to which factorsyou rate more importantly, thats why if everyone on this forum produced a set of ratings and prices for the same race, I doubt whether any two would be identical.

You would get some horses with the same rating but not all.

[Sportz]

When I do weight based ratings I use either ozeform ratigs or the ones on the tamanian tote site, both are quite good.

With the Tas Tab ones, I assume you could slip in a decimal point before the last number and that would give a closer equivalent to the ozeform ratings. ie. 505 = 50.5

Perhaps the Ozeform ratings could be slightly more accurate, but with the Tas tab ratings, I like the fact that you can get all horses in the race on the one page, instead of having to do a search on every horse individually. By the way, what do the * and ? next to the ratings mean?

[brave chief]

hey Dr Ron, thx for pointing out the Tas Tote site, thats a very nice free form guide. i particularly like the fact that it clearly tells you where the horse likes to race (raced midfield; raced at rear etc).

Sportz,

Legend:
* - indicates blinkers used
P - indicates pacifier used
- - indicates no run
x - indicates spell of 6 weeks or more


thats from Super Form Help

[Sportz]

Oh okay. Thanks. Guess I should have looked a bit harder.

[system]

thanks for the input dr ron.

[DR RON]

No worries System, Let us know how you get on.

Thanks Brave Chief, I was wondering about the * myself.

Sportz, I dont know if putting in the decimal point will make much of a difference as even if you do the Tasmanian Tote one will still be a bit higher in 90% of cases.

[Sportz]

Thanks Ron. Can you tell me how do you use the Tas Tab ratings? Do you take weights into account or do you simply look for horses with the highest rating in the race?

[DR RON]

I take my base rating for a horse and subtract 5 points for every half a kilo over the limit or bottom weight. also include allowances.
I must STRESS that I am still in the experimental stages with this and am assuming that a rating of 600 is the same as a weight rating of 60. I have got a feeling this may be wrong but for the moment I am going with it. I thought it might be an interesting experiment if we could all do weight ratings for one race and post the results and see how close they come out to each other. Any other comments onthis welcome. I f there are enough takers I will try and organisesomething. Maybe the main race in Melbourne whatever that is.

[Sportz]

Hmmm, could be a damn good idea that!!! :)

[Sportz]

I take my base rating for a horse and subtract 5 points for every half a kilo over the limit or bottom weight. also include allowances.
I must STRESS that I am still in the experimental stages with this and am assuming that a rating of 600 is the same as a weight rating of 60.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Do you have a method for pricing the horses you've rated? I have a method based loosely around Don Scott's ratings to prices idea. I posted it on here about 6 months or so ago. I can dig it up for you if you like.

[DR RON]

Should we start a new thread for that???

[Sportz]

Yeah, we should definitely start another thread.

Not quite sure where we should put it.... here or in the Horse Racing Forum. Perhaps the Horse Racing forum? That's where the people who post ratings, put theirs. We'll have to nut out some rules first though. I reckon we should pick out the 2 strongest open class handicap races with fields not too small or too big and no odds-on fav.

[DR RON]

Don Scotts methods would be fine. If you could find them that would be great. I will start a new thread on the Horse Racing forum, and you could post them on that.
Suggested rules :

Melbourne
Open Handicap
10-14 runners
No odds on favourites, although it might be a bit hard to predict that one.

Use any weight based ratings you like
Price them using Don Scott method.

any others sportz??

[Sportz]

Hmmm, no my reference to pricing was basically just for you, not for everyone in the comp, but I guess that could be an idea.

Most people that do ratings on here (Duritz, Filante, xpt driver) have their own methods of pricing, but one rule I think we should make is that everyone uses a 100% market when pricing their horses. Basically though, I don't think we'll worry a lot about prices. The main thing we should look for is for people to rate the horses in as close as possible to the real finishing order. I think we should get people to come up with their top 5 rated horses in order and we can go from there.

[DR RON]

o.k
so the rule are:

Melbourne Open Handicap
10-14 runners
Prices to 100 % market
List your top 5

[brave chief]

nice idea guys,

i'll be in that

[Sportz]

Ron, the races look a bit bare on Saturday, but this one could be okay to start off with:

CAULFIELD R6
1400 HCP $50000
1 GUNNAMATTA 58.0 9
2 UNDER THE BRIDGE 57.5 7
3 RUBEN 56.0 11
4 CAUVERY 54.0 12
5 PINK FIT 54.0 6
6 HARDY STEELE 53.5 10
7 CALL ME SYD 53.0 4
8 CLOSE ENCOUNTER 52.5 5
9 PRAY IN VAIN 52.5 1
10 MYSTIC MORSE 52.0 3
11 GO STRAIGHT HOME 52.0 2
12 KEL 52.0 8

[DR RON]

Great minds think alike.

Already one step ahead sportz.