No in play betting for us Aussies?????

[BJ]

Where do I find out what I am allowed to bet on on the exchanges....? Quite keen to bet on some UK live races but apparantly I am not allowed. If ever there was a way to make money that is it, but no, not allowed....

[Shaun]

well as far as i know you are allowed to bet,,,depends where you are

[BJ]

Apparantly you can bet on them until they clear the market and go live. An Australian law stops anyone in Aus betting on live in play markets.....

[Mr ed]

Are you sure i have numerous bets on the cricket IN PLAY.

[Mr ed]

Sorry are you just talking about races.

[La Mer]

Sorry are you just talking about races.

It is illegal in Australia to bet on racing or any other sports in play via the internet. This is covered by the Interactive Gambling Act.

This means that while it is possible to bet via the telephone on games in play such as soccer, golf etc, or on racing in the run, it is not legally possible to do so on the internet.

[Sportz]

I really don't understand how you would bet on a race 'in the run'. Most races last little more than a minute. By the time you see the odds and get around to placing your bet, the race would be over or the odds would change. How does it work???

[La Mer]

I really don't understand how you would bet on a race 'in the run'. Most races last little more than a minute. By the time you see the odds and get around to placing your bet, the race would be over or the odds would change. How does it work???

Heaps of money turned over (matched) on UK races in the run, mainly on the jumps races which go for a lot longer than a minute, remembering that over there they have distinct flat and jumps racing seasons.

[BJ]

I have watched a few UK race markets, and you would only really want to bet on races over a mile. The pool goes from about $500,000 to 2.5 million from the start of the race to the finish.... The odds fluctuate around to crazy levels providing many trading opportunities..... Lots of money getting thrown around just trying to get matched. Would be great to be a part of it....

Also got told by Betfair staff that I would not be able to bet this way via their phone service either... Did he get it wrong.? Either way, I don't think I would like to sit the on the phone for 4 hours getting somebody to place bets for me.....

[La Mer]

Also got told by Betfair staff that I would not be able to bet this way via their phone service either... Did he get it wrong.? Either way, I don't think I would like to sit the on the phone for 4 hours getting somebody to place bets for me.....

BJ: What Betfair may have told you may be right in regard to in-the-run betting on horseracing, simply because of the logistics involved - as you stated the odds fluctuate around somewhat so what may be on offer one second could be totally different the next.

However, I can assure you that I have made a number bets in-the-run on sporting and special event type markets by telephone. For instance, in the US election I backed Bush early on in the campaign then did so again on election night at $3plus when the early results looked like going the other way, then when things started to change around, did so yet again on the Democrats creating a win/win situation. Not a problem, all bets on election night were made via the phone and in-the-run.

Also, if you think racing doesn't have a problem or two when it comes to the competition for the gambling dollar, think again: Betfair matched over AUD$34 million on the US election, over AUD$20 million being matched in the last 24 horse before and during the counting of votes.

[BJ]

The idea is to back a horse for 25% more than start price and lay the same horse for 75% of start price. Place offers as soon as the pools reopen after race start. Chances are they would get matched before the end of the race giving you a handy profit......

[TheAvenger]

Good job on the Bush bet La Mer. I should have touted it for you, but had no idea that there was betting in Oz on the U.S. election. In the Americas, we have our own pool for Aussie racing. Talk about a wild odds swing! One that opened at 99-1 may very well end up as the barrier jump favorite. I have placed a win bet on a horse at 27-1, then after my runner won the race, I found it got bet down to 12-1 evidently just seconds before the jump. Even more frustrating when your 8-1 bet ends up at 8/5. On the postive side, our poor knowledge of Aussie racing sometimes gives us a glorious 55-1 or so winner that was merely medium odds in Oz. In fact, in many Oz races we could bet 5 or 6 runners to win and still make a profit. The exotics in Oz from our pool pay very generously compared to same odds horses at a U.S. track. I have seen two 3-1 shots run 1-2 that generated a $50 quinella. ($2 bet)

I suppose wherever you live there are pros and cons gambling wise. Good luck to all members here.


Regards,

Glenn

[Sportz]

Yep. I've noticed some of the great divs you get over there Glenn. A lot of people think you should only bet in big pools, but smaller pools can lead to some VERY nice divs.

Backed a greyhound today that paid $1.60 for the win and $5.30 for the place!!! That $1.60 was actually a pretty accurate reflection of it's winning chance, so you can see how much of a good div that $5.30 was. Another winner I got paid $20 and it's true price was really no more than about $5. Like you said though, the divs can change wildly in small pools. In one race, I backed a dog which was paying $11.00 before they jumped and after it won, it's div dropped down to 2.60!!!

[TheAvenger]

Sportz: Thanks for the great picks last night. Americans punters/trainers think differently about racing factors and tactics. It would be an idiot here that backed a 3 year old against older horses before April 1 of the year. (ours age 1 year on Jan 1; I thought I saw yours do so on Aug.1?) We brilliantly know that fillies and mares are 20% inferior to colts and geldings, and wouldn't think of backing any but a truly exceptional female against males. Dirt is a much better surface for horses than grass. A sprinter always needs 1-2 weeks to recover between races; a stayer 3-4 weeks. 3 year olds any distance 3-4 weeks rest; 2 year olds 4-6 weeks minimum. Jockey weights make little if any difference, and we have a fairly narrow range. It's usually unthinkable to have a field of more than 14 runners, 10 used to be common. Inside rail is a big advantage at most tracks. Bet the early running types, you know, catch me if you can.

It's these preconceived erroneous notions, and a host of others, that make us poor Aussie punters. I watched and saw many differences, threw out all the rules and decided to let the folks on this message board educate me in Aussie horseracing in December of 2003. I have learned much, and have much more to learn. I greatly appreciate the training provided to this poor, dumb yank.


Regards,

Glenn

[La Mer]

Sportz: It's these preconceived erroneous notions, and a host of others, that make us poor Aussie punters. I watched and saw many differences, threw out all the rules and decided to let the folks on this message board educate me in Aussie horseracing in December of 2003. I have learned much, and have much more to learn. I greatly appreciate the training provided to this poor, dumb yank. Regards, Glenn

Glenn, If you haven't already done so, I can highly recommend that you read a copy of Andy Beyer's book "Beyer On Speed', in which he details, among other things, his experiences of Australian racing during his odyssey down here a few years ago. A very interesting read and might just help you understand Australian racing a little more.

[TheAvenger]

I have read it, but it's been many years(and many whiskeys) ago. Time for a refresher, it seems, particularly with my relatively new (2 years) interest in racing in Oz. Wonderful suggestion, thanks. We are planning a trip to Australia in the next year or so. Wifey and son want to see the Australia Zoo around the Sunshine Coast, I think. I could care less about Steve Irwin's operation, but want to check in at a few tracks. No better way to learn than first hand. I envy your present summer. It's -5 and very winter here.


Glenn

[gizzard]

Glenn

Is the US pool available online? What's the web-site that you use?

[TheAvenger]

It's only available in The USA and Canada. I use both www.brisbet.com and www.youbet.com. Both are actually funneled through Americatab.

Regards,

Glenn

[Sportz]

Lots of good free Australian racing info on that Brisbet site, but it looks like you have to pay for all the American info. No wonder you prefer to bet on Aussie racing Glenn. :D

[TheAvenger]

Actually, If I place a single bet at any American track, that days basic information (racing form) is free. They do have extra charges for various tipsheets, ratings, etc. They made a friend of me when they made the Australian data free. What the blazes though...I bet over $14,000 USD with them last year. I think the powerstats at www.australianracing.com (not a betting site) are reasonably decent, and free.

Regards,


Glenn

[Sportz]

Yep, they sure are. I think I put you onto that one didn't I? ;)

[TheAvenger]

Yes, you did, Sportz, and it has helped me greatly, Hard to believe an ex
off track betting manager from Chicago created it.


Glenn

[zeditave]

back to the In-Play betting...

Betfair turn cricket and golf 'out of play' overnight, ie when play isn't going on. This is a contentious issue in the wording of the law, but Centrebet do it as well as far as i can see.

The law only applies to betting online, you can make exactly the same bets over the phone (yes it is stupid, but we are dealing with politicians here who don't understand the issue and brought it in purely as a sap job to appease the ant-gambling crusaders who wanted pokies banned but states govts are addicted to the revenue...). Anything offered in-play with Betfair can be bet via the phone, but minimum limits apply - I've found them pretty relaxed about enforcing that for Aussies - it's usually £50 min but I've had no trouble getting on for AU$50 on cricket...

As for betting on racing in-running, there are a few fields of thought -

- either you are mighty quick with your judgement and fingers
- or you take a stats based approach (leaders at the 600m mark only win X% of races at track Y)
- or you try to lay two horses at odds-on in a race (my preferred option)

Jumps season seems to be the best for it, simply because of the length of the race and split-second timing isn't as critical.

If you can read a race yourself without relying on the commentary, it is a bonus. In the Olympic marathon (women), the Brit commentator was raving about how the 2nd woman was storming home and would breeze past the leader.. she traded way into the red and never caught the leader. The price swings within about 3 minutes were quite staggering.

[BJ]

zedative... my approach is always stats based...The only access to radio coverage that I have found for these races is through Bill Hill bookie site which is clearly a delayed telecast, and it is so boring and depressing listening to those guys monotone voices... As I said earlier I would back for a bit over the start price and lay for a percentage under the start price. I would do this for the first 4-5 favs. The problem would be that if only 1 of the 2 bets was matched you are guaranteed to lose that bet...
eg. Horse starts at $2. As soon as the market turns in play, you back it at $2.5, lay it at $1.5. If the horse gets off to a bad start and never recovers, the odds will never get down to $1.5 but will go out to 999-1 guaranteeing that you have backed it for a win at $2.5.
Knowing this, it might seem like a stupid idea, but having seen the wild fluctations, it would have to be tested to see the percentage of bets that get matched... $1 per horse would provide little risk/gain but would give a good insight as to if it is viable...

Getting back to legality...
Knowing that the ban on Oz punters through BF is IP based, one would only have to change or disguise your IP. I would never dream of doing anything illegal, but hypothetically speaking, I have been informed that a proxy server would disguise your IP so as to appear in another country.
How would one go about setting this up, hypothetically speaking of course......

[zeditave]

google is a wonderful way to find info like that if you type in certain key words...