Sky Channel........

[BJ]

Apparantly the rights to the vision of all gallops meetings go to TVN as of midnight tonight....
As an Austar customer, I will no longer have any vision of the races..... Only Foxtel digital subscribers will have access to this channel.....
Added to this is the fact that the only reason Austar is hooked up is to get this vision.....

How many people are in the same boat...?

I believe my facts are correct....

[La Mer]

Austar have about 300,000 of which a great number would be in a similar position to yourself, that being they mainly subscribe for the racing vision.

I'm a Foxtel digital subscriber and already have TVN hooked up so will not be directly affected, but my recommendation to you is to lodge a complaint with the ACCC as have others. I know for a fact that the ACCC are monitoring the situation and may well step in at some stage in the near future. The more people who complain to them, the more ammunition they have to take action.

[dingoboy]

Hi Guys,

What are you saying, i am a foxtel digital subscriber also, are you saying i am going to loose the racing channels, do i have to call them to get another package, ive got three boxes with them, they better come to the party !

Thanks
Dingoboy

[BJ]

Foxtel digital subscribers are ok.... It is Austar and Optus customers....
After further reading I am under the impression that it is only Sydney or NSW gallops meetings....?

[La Mer]

Foxtel digital subscribers are ok.... It is Austar and Optus customers....
After further reading I am under the impression that it is only Sydney or NSW gallops meetings....?

BJ - As from midnight tonight, TVN will be the lone provider of all Victorian races, including Melbourne. Dependant on what happens as 3.30pm today in the court in Sydney, the Sydney races will also only be shown on TVN.

Currently, TVN is only available to Foxtel Digital subscribers and online via Telstra Bigpond.

[BJ]

Online?
I have Bigpond ISDN.... Are you saying that I can watch still....?
At a speed of 128kbps it probably isn't worth it anyway..... But still worth a try....

[La Mer]

Online?
I have Bigpond ISDN.... Are you saying that I can watch still....?
At a speed of 128kbps it probably isn't worth it anyway..... But still worth a try....

BJ - Probably not ideal at such a speed, but why not vist the Bigpond home page and find out what they offer?

[BJ]

I only really need to watch so I know when the race is about to start.... I am a numbers man not a form man, so actually watching the races is a novelty just to see if my bet was a winner.
But yes, I will visit Bigpond to see what they have available, but as far as internet speed goes, this is as fast as is available in my area.....

[topsy99]

i am an austar subscriber only to watch the races. (and perhaps hogan's heroes) but foxtel will be charging $12 per month extra or are doing it now for the races.
it is possible that austar will be doing that also.
but austar (half an hour ago) could not tell me anything so will have to do with out. i suppose.
good luck.

[xptdriver]

Gday All

I am in the Country at Port Macquarie and as such have no access to foxtel.. I do however have Austar.. From what I have read in the past.. ALL NSW Country for sure (they signed a 10 year deal recently) and I think provincial racing will continue to be shown on Sky.. ALL VICTORIAN RACING IS GONE... Depending on the outcome of the court case, SYDNEY racing could also be gone from SKY.. What does it all mean?

The way I read is that Foxtel subscribers will have to flick between TVN and SKY to watch the gallops, which isnt a huge problem. The problem for the Austar people (me included) is that we will Have all states (except Vic) Country Racing, Metro racing from BRIS PERTH and ADLEAIDE, and as I said I think Provincial NSW racing.. There will be no repeat NO Sydney Metro OR Victorian Racing, due to a cunning little contract deal that SKY really doesnt want you to know about.. They have SOLE EXCLUSIVE rights to broadcast thoroughbred racing delivered over satellite into people's homes.. How's that for being shafted all you non city people? I believe that if sky was to give up this SOLE right to transmit via Satellite, we would have TVN in our homes in rural and country Australia.. but that is as likely to happen as me ever being a size 8 again.
For me the true viliain in all this is the contract that allowed one channel a monopoly over a broadcasting platform... Disgraceful.. I wont be getting rid of Austar for a couple of reasons... I LOVE country racing and my GF loves some of the other channels... My two bobs worth

[La Mer]

The judge has just handed down her decision and it's win of the two Sydney race clubs, so pending any other action, Sydney racing will now only be available on TVN.

In making her judgement, Judge Bergin observed that even if Racing NSW had the right they asserted, procedural fairness had not been observed in the decision making leading up to the court case.

[topsy99]

with good will there is a way around it but good will is hard to find.

apparently sky channel sells its service to pay tv on the condition they do not show any vision from another source. tvn is another source so to show it would be a breach of the sky channel agreement.
perhaps something can be done.

but even so if the industry doesnt want to reach the majority of punters then they will pay a price for it. having said that i dont know how the numbers stack up in respect of the major viewing numbers.

its the price to pay for privatising horse racing. i think it should open to door to other interlopers to the racing industry.
so now what is wrong with betfair getting off the ground in australia.
apparently there is no loyalty factor anymore.
go for it.

[topsy99]

Thank you for your query



TVN is owned by the AJC, STC, VRC, MVRC, MRC & CRV

These racing clubs are the rights holders of their product

They have signed their rights over to ThoroughVisioN P/L

In the case of the Victorian Clubs, TVN has had the rights for three years - and TVN negotiated a deal to sell the rights to Sky for a three year period

This deal ends tomorrow (Tuesday May 3)



Sky Channel has agreements in place with Foxtel, Optus & Austar that prohibits them from allowing another Horse Racing Channel on their platform

With the establishment of the Digital Pay TV service, the ACCC developed the "Open Access Regime" that provides for any group to access the Foxtel Digital platform as long as they can pay their way - In TVN's case, we are paying our way.



TVN has requested Sky & TABCORP to lift the restriction on the Pay TV carriers. Sky & TABCORP have refused and therefore restricting TVN access to a broader customer base.

TVN has written to the ACCC to investigate the situation - we are waiting for their findings.



Currently TVN has installed over 2200 Services to Public Venues throughout Australia

TVN is also collating a list of interested Industry Participants that if the ACCC Pay TV findings are negative, TVN will consider putting the commercial service into a domestic situation



I am not sure if you have access to Broadband, but TVN is available through Bigpond Racing

If you can access broadband, I suggest that you consider installing a Bigpond service (512k) and viewing the live and on demand services available.


email received from tvn

[Chuck]

Let me get this straight...

i am a foxtel Digital subscriber...

do i get tvn automatically, or do i have to ring them up and ask about it?

[La Mer]

Let me get this straight...

i am a foxtel Digital subscriber...

do i get tvn automatically, or do i have to ring them up and ask about it?

You have to ring TVN (not Foxtel) and subscribe - the fee is $12 per annum up until May 2006.

[Mark]

And they (race clubs etc) argue against Betfair saying it will harm the integrity of racing & has no loyalty to punters. Yeah right. Anyone involved in the "blacking out" of certain races to certain areas really cares about the punter.

[topsy99]

loyalty works both ways.we've been shafted by the greed of the racing industry.
we have acted in good faith to sign up for services.
we have also listened to the complaints of unitab and tabcorp regarding betfair and how it would damage the industry.
how does shutting out victorian and nsw racing from most punters affect the industry.
in tasmania here the catchcry has always been that we must be on sky channel to make racing pay so they moved to sunday.
how will taking sydney and victoria off most off us help make it pay.
without punters and then owners the industry is on a downer here.
it may have revenue from tv stations in the long run the public support from punters is what will make it pay.
we'll just watch this for awhile and see if they can do without us punters.
from now on. sydney racing is off my agenda.

[Shaun]

I agree it is a raw deal and money has always been more important to them than the punters...even though we are the money....for the last five years i have only watched racing on TV at carnival time or when i pop in to the local tab....i enjoy listening to it on my pc....and i get to choose what station i listen to 2KY,ACT TAB Radio,QLD TAB Radio,Radio 927,WA Oz Bet Radio

[Mr Selby]

when you ring tvn does the $12 get charged to your foxtel account or can you pay another way?? foxtel digital is not under my name so just want to find out.

[topsy99]

i assume that $12 is monthly not annually.

one saviour could be the accc with the exclusive sky channel deal with austar and preventing any other provider being used by austar may be uncompetitive.
perhaps it will resolve albeit at a cost no doubt.

[La Mer]

i assume that $12 is monthly not annually.

one saviour could be the accc with the exclusive sky channel deal with austar and preventing any other provider being used by austar may be uncompetitive.
perhaps it will resolve albeit at a cost no doubt.

No the fee is $12 PER ANNUM (up until May 2006). It does not get charged to your Foxtel account but is paid to TVN directly via credit card.

[kenchar]

I am pissed off with the whole lot of crap that is going on.
As I am a dead set last second bettor ( working from odds flucs ) and putting my bet on as the last horse is going in the barrier.
It's no good using the radio as they are on delayed broadcast and if I relied on that I would miss bets, and you all know about Murphy's law the ones I don't get on will get up.
I am on Optus broadband and Optus cable so have absolutely no access to any service whatsoever.
I really think that this situation MUST contravene some of our laws.
Basically they are saying if I don't switch my services to Telstra I cannot access the races.
Something wrong here somewhere.

[topsy99]

i have lodged a complaint with the accc will let you know what they say about it.

an exclusive deal with sky channel that does not now provide the service is hardly an exclusive deal.

here's hoping some good comes out of it.
will keep you posted.

[bwheatle]

I can recall recently reading the headline somewhere that 'Tabcorp declares war on it's customers'. Which, I guess is the case for many who can no longer access vision of the Vic and NSW races.

Of course, this is a utterly ridiculous state of affairs. But treating their customers with contempt was an inevitable consequence of the monopoly Tabcorp has enjoyed to date. Like the monopoly that the heirs of George Adam's have continued to enjoy for something like the last 100 years. Like the monopoly each Australian Casino was granted for however many years. It beggars belief that any such monopoly could possibly ever act in the interest of the general public, or their customers. Look at how the minumum bet has risen at every Casino in Australia that was granted such a monopoly. Look at how the minimum bet has risen with Tabcorp.

Greedy and greedier.

But, wouldn't we all do the same thing?? Let's face it, every business provided with such an opportunity is always going to make the most of it.

I can't for the life of me understand how any government could conclude that allowing a monopoly to operate can ever be in the best interests of it's constituents. Perhaps a clue as to why such situations to arise can be found in the beneficiaries of the George Adam's will. Apparently many beneficiaries are attempting to sell their holdings prior to their names been disclosed. Interesting that? They say several politicians and their families of that time (and maybe this time) are even today still reaping the rewards seeded from a deal made 100 or so years ago!

There's something very strange going on here. Run any other business in this country, and your gonna be subjected to every onslaught imaginable. Your gonna be expected to compete against all comers whether they pay their workers $1 a day, or whatever the case might be. Our politicians will all tell you that 'protectionism' is a thing of the past.........except when it comes to
our gaming industry. Not only will these guys get protection from local competition by virtue of their monopolies, they've even been protected from o'sea's competition from the like's of Betfair (In NSW and WA).

Can anyone explain to me why the textile, footwear, car parts, or any other local manufacturing business was never afforded such protection?

Then again, we're all paying less for a pair of shoes, or an item of clothing, or whatever as a result. And, no-one can deny that has been the end result of the lowering of protectionism.

But, as any punter would know, the reverse has happened on the gaming front. Five years ago a DVD player cost $500 and now it's closer to $50. Five years ago you could find a $5 table at a Casino but now it's closer to $15. How can that be????

Just watch these minimums come down dramatically once these guys monopolies expire and they are eventually faced with real competiton. But, when, if ever, will their monopolies expire?

These guys survive on the 'public interest' argument. In other words, they present their argument on the basis that it lies in the 'public interest' that their monopoly should be continued! And, I reckon everyone on this forum would agree this is a load of rubbish. But, they continue to get away with it!

In those immortal words "why is it so". Why do we keep allowing this to happen?

Bazza









Sure they will - pull the other leg!!!

[catweazle]

who really gives a sh*t get a life!!

[topsy99]

sorry catweazle. i disagree.
getting pushed around is an australian weakness. we often dont care enough about anything and then we complain because things happen.

over here we have an electricity monopoly (state owned) at my other house i have blown up two computers and my decoder box in 3 months.
after a long period of argument with the company they agreed that the power transformer was malfuntioning and will have it fixed in 16 weeks.
why does it take this to have an elementary part of their business fixed. the thing can burn down a house.
i often get annoyed with activists but not so much with their causes but their methods. but long live the activists. at least they care enough to do something about injustice and unfairness.
if as a customer of an organisation i become less valued then i think i will let them know how i feel.
this is an important issue to me as are many other things. i will continue to protest and seek an explanation.
the racing in australia in recent years hasnt been as good as they think it has particularly in sydney.
just watch the decline after they shut the punters out.
this decision offers a challenge some of us will take it up.

[Mark]

Hi Bazza

Catweazle has answered all your questions in one go.
When some of your customers have that sort of mentality it's very hard not to just blatantly rip them off. They don't even know it's happening.

[bwheatle]

With regard to your response "who really gives a sh*t get a life".

I beg to differ Catz. Many forum members will be inconvenienced by Tabcorp's arrogance here. Particularly regional members without access to broadband.

The consequences of Tabcorp's arrogance, as I understand it are:

1. Skychannel will cease broadcasting any Victorian races as of yesterday... Full stop.

2. Skychannel will cease broadcasting any metro Sydney race as of yesterday...Full stop.

If any homeviewer wishes to receive live racing broadcasting, then they will need to switch to digital (which costs) and subscribe to TVN (which again costs). However, if you live in the country and use Austar or Optus you will be unable to receive TVN as they have an exclusive agreement with Sky.

It's all a bit messy Catz. But, in the word's of some doctor...trust me....there will be a lot of members who, upon understanding the consequences of the TAB's arrogance will "give a sh*t'".

[Mr ed]

Have been off the punt lately, but went into the tab to watch one of my favourite racing events today only to get crappy radio coverage, it really hit home then just how much this cancer could affect the industry. The government can intervene, constitutional and common law have both interpreted that Govt has power over telecommunications laws, so it would not be out of their jurisdiction to pass an act to help resolve the matter, although this is unlikely, and the “independent” ACCC will probably end up resolving the matter. TVN looks like a great coverage, I don't think many disagree there but surely there can be room for this in depth coverage, as well as just the race coverage by Sky.


I am amused by the hypocrisy on this thread, with many forumites against the privatisation of broadcast rights, but all for open-slather betting rights.
I also see a lot of complaints about greed here, but greed is what drives our economy, without greed nothing gets done. As a great economist Adam Smith once said,

“It is not through the benevolence of the baker that we have fresh bread of a morning”.

Desire to produce wealth is not only necessary but essential, and apparent in every industry. Sky (Tab) can and will get the coverage, no doubt about that, it’s just in its infancy stages and negotiations have not yet eventuated. Both parties have enormous bargaining power with the Tab responsible for a large percentage of race prize money. They have a mutualistic relationship (which at the moment has become parasitic); either party can’t operate without the other; however it will take time until they work out when ‘price is right’.

People talk about monopolies as such an evil force, monopoly is a beautiful word in business, Sky will try and maintain its monopoly on broadcasting, just as the Tab will with betting, they have a duty to shareholders to try and preserve this position, if it will maximise profits. Just as the racing clubs have the right and duty to try and ensure they recieve the best price for their product.

Sky (tab), have been the price-makers for so long, it will be intriguing to see where the industry ends up if and when they are forced to become price-takers. One things for sure, the only people who will eventually benefit is you and me, competition in the industry will ensure better coverage and better prices, it may just take a little time to get there.

Just my two bobs, and I was on Chakra (filthy cat)

Cheers ED

[a4brianp]

I for one although not a big punter am a consistent one.Have a little dabble everyday mainly on Victorian Racing Will not be having a wager until this garbage is sorted.
Will be interesting tomorrow to see how the betting pools are affected and that must have a spinoff to the racing clubs and then on to stake money.

Could this be the super league of racing and if so just have a look at the effect of that.The Broncos used to play to 50000 people now lucky to get 25 to 30 thousand at home games people who used to go now stay home or a lot of them now follow the Lions in Afl.
The Rsl which i am a member have had Tvn for quite a while and i found it quite boring watching the race repeated time after time or watching horses walking around the mounting yard, if you want to see that go to the races.
Lets all hope they all wake up to themselves and we can return to one channel with all the racing like we have had not perfect but pretty good.
cheers

[BJ]

A question.
If Sky is available on Foxtel Digital, then how are they allowed to have TVN? Was it not in their contract as well? I don't understand how they can have both channels yet Austar cannot...

[Duritz]

I think the mounting yard coverage is great, and necessary. I think hearing someone frantically say "All in at Caulfield" then a flash to starting stalls, followed by Greg Miles saying "racing!" with which we stay for 90 seconds before the original voice again says "Set Launceston!!!" and we switch to another set of stalls where someone else says "Racing!" with which we stay for another 90 seconds, and so on, is rubbish! It's just a pokie machine! People forget about the other parts of horse racing - the yard, how they look etc.

Bring on TVN!

[BJ]

I think the mounting yard coverage is great, and necessary. I think hearing someone frantically say "All in at Caulfield" then a flash to starting stalls, followed by Greg Miles saying "racing!" with which we stay for 90 seconds before the original voice again says "Set Launceston!!!" and we switch to another set of stalls where someone else says "Racing!" with which we stay for another 90 seconds, and so on, is rubbish! It's just a pokie machine! People forget about the other parts of horse racing - the yard, how they look etc.

Bring on TVN!

Some of us just want the choice. I cannot view TVN and many others are in the same boat.

[Raw Instinct]

I for one am going to find it very very hard to even want to bet in a place that I cannot even watch the racing which I guess now means I will not be betting in Melbourne or Sydney. I can put up with losing Sydney I for the most part really do not like betting there but Melbourne is another story especially racing at Flemington I usually go very well there regardless this is a ridiculos situation that just goes to show all anyone cares about is money which I guess is nothing new at all is it.

[Neil]

It's quite interesting how all parties to this dispute are united in their opposition against betting exchanges.

But they seem to have ignored the damage their dispute will do to racing, where owners, trainers and punters are not able to view all live racing from the comfort of their homes. Nor the financial damage done to owner operated TAB agencies who now have to pay two parties to get live races.

If not quickly resolved the damage to racing will be far greater than any damage these parties have estimated, rightly or wrongly, will be done to racing by allowing betting exchanges.

[La Mer]

A question.
If Sky is available on Foxtel Digital, then how are they allowed to have TVN? Was it not in their contract as well? I don't understand how they can have both channels yet Austar cannot...

BJ: There is a lot of confusion about all of this and rightly so, you've got to be a bit of a bush layyer to work it all out.

But just to set the records straight I will try and explain why the current unsatisfactory situation has arisen.

When the federal government gave permission for Foxtel to roll out digital tv, the ACCC placed a restriction on them, which was that Foxtel had to make available their digital infrastructure to any third party providers. TVN are a third party provider so that neither Foxtel or Sky could stop TVN using the Foxtel network.

However, both Optus and Austar had previously signed long-term exclusive agreements with Sky that didn't allow a third party provider such as TVN to be use the Optus or Austar networks.

This current situation can be resolved by either of two things occuring:

a) Sky agreeing to allow TVN to use the Optus and Austrar networks, or
b) the ACCC stepping in and making Sky allow TVN to use the Optus and Austar networks.

I suspect that the latter is the more likely as I know for a fact that the ACCC are monitoring the situation and that they have a some of their staff working on resolving this issue.

Hopefully any resolution will be sooner rather than later.

[kenchar]

Duritz,
I understand what you are saying and I know there are punters out there that want to watch the mounting yard and whether the nag is pretty or not, but there are a lot of others like me that just want to see them going into the barrier and knowing when to put the bet on.
I can watch whether a nag is playing up and the start is delayed or not.
With the way I find my selection starts happening about 15 mins before the start of a race and I follow odds, books and tabs, alternating web page to web page and if anything of interest shows up start writing odds down.
If I have a selection I am interested in the last 30 secs to the jump are paramount to me, because that's when everything just about sorts itself out.
When I say follow odds I don't always mean the shorteners, more often than not I am on something that blows.
I have seen many many times the market change after jump time when there is a nag playing up and the start is delayed.
The difference to me is to bet or not to.
All I want to go back to is just being able to watch the start, whether I watch the race or not I don't give a damn because I can't change the result.
It has cost me money this week and I am not a happy camper.

Cheers

[bwheatle]

Can't see this issue of live television broadcast being resolved anytime soon. Seems such a retrograde step, difficult to come to terms with to the average punter, especially in an era of vastly improving technology.

Now, those of us fortunate to have access to both Sky and TVN now have to flick between channels every 10 or so minutes. Pain the the ass. But, at least we're able to do so. Not so fortunate our country counter-parts. They are simply kept in the dark.

While not assuming a great degree of understanding of the issues involved here, it seems to me that the Melb/Vic and Metro NSW Race Clubs feared the loss of control of their 'product' to Sky/Tabcorp.

They, rightly or wrongly, felt that Sky/Tabcorp was usurping their product and doing with it whatever they (Sky/Tabcorp) thought fit. Sky/Tabcorp called the shots, so long as they owned this content. Should Sky/Tabcorp prefer to cover/show a dog/harness meeting in preference to a throughbred meeting then that choice would always remain their's. The Race Clubs had limited or no say at all as to whether or not that was the case. They provide the venue and the content, but had no control as to how it was used.

Seems to me (and somewhat understandably) that this got up the nose of many Racing Club's, in particular Victorian and Sydney metro ones.

Accordingly, as their contracts expired with SKY/Tabcorp these same clubs elected to take back control by setting up their own broadcasting medium in TVN.

While it's a short term hassle for us throughbred punters, I reckon that eventually we'll all be better off.

Eventually, Adelaide, Brisbane etc rights with Sky/Tabcorp will expire and we'll have a dedicated Throughbred TV service showing all throughbred races.

Sky will be left with the dogs and harness and maybe a bit more, and in the process struggle to survive.

As I've said before, monopolies breed arrogance and I believe that Sky in their
arrogance fell for this old trick.

My prediction is that eventually, as this debacle plays out, TVN and the Racing Clubs will wrestle back control but in times to come they too will abuse the monopoly they will enjoy in the same way that TAB/Sky did when they enjoyed it.

It's the way of things.

[a4brianp]

Mate it is going to be awhile before the other states join Tvn as they have all signed with Sky for a long period.
My read of it was that the Thoughbred people wanted all the meetings covered by Sky to the detriment of the other codes.They did have a pretty good coverage to my mind and all country cups including Edenhope who have 1 or 2 meetings a year was shown.
Perhaps one answer would be to go back to racing Gallops during the day and Harness and Greyhounds sharing the nights so then both codes would be happy.Harness could race on Monday afternoons which was traditionly theres anyway and perhaps Tuesday but not the other afternoons as they do now.