Ozeform ratings

[Imagele]

Have I gone blind or have the Ozeform ratings really gone missing.?!
Can't find any notification about this on the site.

[Imagele]

Must be blind.
No-one else has noticed it.!

[Duritz]

Actually it's true Imagele - they have taken them off. My mail is that it's for good, too.

Apparently though, expert form are going to be unveiling ratings pretty soon. A very comprehensive service apparently.

[Imagele]

Thanks Duritz.
I was about to post again out of frustration.
Two emails to Ozeform have not attracted the courtesy of a response.
Good news about expertform though. I've often thought that the only thing missing from that service was a rating figure.
It seems the ozeform ratings were basically flawed in that they assumed a base rating of 52kg.
This became obvious when looking at the ridiculously high ratings given to winners of country highweights.

[brave chief]

laughable. why take off the only thing that made that site useful??

[Imagele]

Arrogant too I would have thought.
It does not seem that anyone was notified of this change.
They still are not answering emails.

[Chrome Prince]

It seems the ozeform ratings were basically flawed in that they assumed a base rating of 52kg.
This became obvious when looking at the ridiculously high ratings given to winners of country highweights.

Yep Imagele,

Those ratings could not possibly have been the real deal that Mark actually uses, but just some basic base (can you say that?).
I found many areas where they were flawed, it's only when one starts to apply the ratings and run them over data, that the flaws become glaringly apparent.

[Duritz]

They're not the real thing. The rating's he uses are "filtered" before they reach the final figure. They become an adjusted rating. One of the adjustments adjusts for the problem Imagele alluded to. This might be wrong to say on a site like this, but I know some of the people involved at expertform, and the product they are about to unveil is apparently awesome. The ratings are on the same scale as Timeform, will make Mark Read's old ratings look like dinosaurs.

[Imagele]

Duritz
The expertform service will not be free I presume.

[Duritz]

Not sure what they're doing in that respect. Probably free for a while, then a fee. Their current form guide is very cheap, I doubt they'd charge much.

[La Mer]

IAS are updating their site which will take about two months. When the update is completed it is most unlikely that the ratings will reappear - they are more or less gone forever, unless the number of complaints change the minds of the powers that be at IAS.

[Imagele]

La Mer
Any idea why the members were not extended the courtesy of being advised of this change or why the controllers do not answer email queries.

[La Mer]

La Mer
Any idea why the members were not extended the courtesy of being advised of this change or why the controllers do not answer email queries.

Can't answer that Imagele, but IAS did advise at least one person who complained in the following mannger,

""Thank you for your email.

The Ozeform website is having a revamp over the next 2
months. During this time a few services will be
admitted, including the Ratings.

At this time there is no plan to re-instate them.
However your email has been noted and sent to our
Management. If a rating service is to be re-instated,
we will retain your email and inform you of so

Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

Thank you and if you have any inquires please do not
hesitate to contact us


Kind Regards
Member Services "

[Imagele]

La mer
Thanks for your reply.
I presume you meant "Omitted" and not "admitted" in regards to the ratings service.
Whoever that member was, they had better luck than I have had to date.
Mind you, they don't get any money from me which might explain their disregard for my query.

[Duritz]

Well, a lot of people will drop off their site now.

[anchor]

Duritz, many will drop off but I think IAS wouldn't given a hoot, unfortunately. They did a similar trick with their speed maps.

[La Mer]

Further to my earlier response, I received the following from Ozeform.

Dear Ozeform member

For several years, our highly successful www.ozeform.com site included a range of unique services only available to ozeform members, one of which was the ratings service.

Members would have noticed that this ratings service has recently been removed from the site. This decision was made as part of the redesign of the site and, as a result, of the misuse and abuse made by some consumers of the information.

I encourage you to keep visiting www.ozeform.com, which has been voted the best racing information site in the southern hemisphere and upon which we will continue to provide our clients with as much information as we are safely able to do.

The redesign, which is an ongoing operation, has enabled us to internationalise our product offering across all sports, both within Australia and Internationally.

Kind Regards
Customer Services, Ozeform.com

[Imagele]

La Mer
Wonder why you are recieving such privileged treatment.
I still can't get a reply.
I am also wondering what type of misuse and abuse they are talking about.

[Chrome Prince]

Imagele,

I received the same notice.

I expect that they received many queries as to how they came up with this or that rating, and the misuse would be an extroadinarily large amount of traffic.

This will now drop significantly, vbut so will their membership, starting here.

[Imagele]

Yeah
Just got a notice in the mail.
Pretty slack to make accusations without detailing what the problem actually was.
Sounds like a lame excuse.
They have lost me as well.

[Duritz]

The "misuse" will mean that they have lost at IAS on the races badly one weekend, and MR is blaming people having access to the ratings. That's why the speed maps went off too.

[Imagele]

Yes Duritz,
I guess someone using the ratings to make a killing against the provider would constitute some kind of abuse.
When I resumed punting some 30 months ago, I did so on the back of some handy information on the internet, not least of all, the Ozeform ratings.
As basic as they were, they were a valuable tool to gain an overview of the horse's history to combine with other factors in deciding the best chances in any given race.
The ratings helped to delineate the differences in strengths between races of the same class conducted at different venues on different days of the week.
Over the past few months,a lot of services that were available on the internet have disappeared.
Expertform took away their free tips service, I now can't access the Racing Victoria site to check scratchings and rider changes, and Simon Beasley's tips have disappeared.
In this age of technology, one would have thought that the way would always be onward and better, not retrogade and worse as seems to be the case.
Ozeform is kidding itself if it believes the traffic to their site will not diminish significantly as a result of their latest move.
Maybe though, this is by design.

[Duritz]

Yeah I agree. Problem is of course there's no benefit to anyone to provide free ratings or tips. Advertising on web pages etc ain't enough in a localised punting environment like Australia's. People have to charge for the info. As you said, Experftform are now charging for their info, other's simply not providing it at all. I guess the thing that needs to be asked is if you have to pay for something, be sure and find a product worth paying for. If you want to do the form yourself (admirable, better than taking someone's tips at face value), find a service that gives you great, reliable info for not too high a price. There are mobs about who are like that. Expertform provide a great product with their video comments and superform and speed maps, and when they introduce ratings they'll have an all round complete package, an exceptional way to do the form. Racenet's package is good too, but isn't produced everywhere. I know a couple of very serious punters who subscribe to TRB, they do a great job. You may have to determine exactly what you want, find the right product at the right price, and make sure you punt properly so you can win and therefore justify the fee.

It's either that or do what I did - build you own database, but that has been a HELL of a lot of work, and I still have to pay a subscription fee to get the results and fields anyway. Back at the same thing - hard to get anything GOOD for free. At least not for long anyway.

Cheers.

[Punter4211]

Hi All,
In regard to the Misuse and Abuse of information provided free to punters from respectable internet sites let me add my two-bob's worth.
There are people, advertising in sports papers, who claim to be "Professional Punters" and are selling via 1900 numbers, web sites, email and the like "Hot Tips"
Where do they get their information from? Do they spend many hours studying form or getting out of bed at 2am to watch the track gallops?
Or is it easier to suck information from a reliable source, add a bit of hype and on-sell it to unsuspecting punters that are led to believe this information is truly coming from a professional service?
Ask yourself this question... If someone truly has a super hot system to pick winners, why would they sell it for a few dollars to you?
The fact is the suck in 50-100 naive innocents every week and that's how they make their "profession"... Most of them would never bet, probably go to church on Sundays too.
It's easier to skim the information off someone else and resell it at a huge profit than do the work yourself...
Of course the providers of the original legitimate information have reason to get upset... Wouldn't you??
Regards
OzPunter

[darkydog2002]

Why would any sane person pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a rating service when as soon as weights are issued the proffessional punters and bookmakers are hard at work doing the form for you for FREE.,as reflected in the boomakers OPENING prices.
As for the assessed PRICING structure for overlay betting,no 2 services would be the same.

Cheers.
darky.

[Punter4211]

Dear Darkydog2002....

Thanks for your comments....

The way things work is that when a race club lists its nominations for a race (see www.racingnsw.com.au (http://www.racingnsw.com.au)) the professionals and bookmaker services are hard at work on their computers doing the form and ratings.

They come up witha set of ratings & prices that are "Private" to them and the bookmakers ... The bookies then reframe these prices adding in a "Popularity factor" . That is what they predict punters will want to bet on because the horse, jockey, trainer are "Flavour of the Month" (or week) they then add a 35+% overlay which is the bookies profit..

The bookies then start beting at these prices and follow market trends, supply and demand down to the race start time, which are fluctuations.

Professioals either do all this themselves (with staff) or subscribe to a professional service, like TRB for example.

By the time it hits the newspapers (printed around 11pm the previous night), trends have already begun taking place and so I think you should take the paper prises witha grain of salt.

See if you can answer this.... "What percentage of money is invested on a runner simply because it is the Favourite?" Adding money to a low price runner just makes it lower and fuels the fire.

Kind Regards

OzPunter

[darkydog2002]

I agree with MOST of your comments.
Anyone relying on paper prices are kidding themselves .
Anyone betting TAB especially PLACE betting are taking the WORST value in Australia.
Serious punters are at the track where SUPPLY andDEMAND prevail.
As far as bookmakers % is concerned one has the choice of betting in or not those races where the % is outrageously high.
As far as the PRIVATE pricing goes then adding their % what business doesn,t.
The guts of my post is that if you want a rating service then the bookmakers opening quotes pinpoint those horses with a reasonable chance of greeting the judge.
Rating services ASESSED PRICES are another matter altogether and here I ask the question of which rating services assessed price do you consider worthy as they all differ.
Cheers.
darky.

[La Mer]

Serious punters are at the track where SUPPLY and DEMAND prevail.

That used to be the case Darky but not anymore - the majority of 'serious' punters now do their wagering from the comfort on their lounge room. Approx 80% of rails bookies turnover now comes from telephone betting. Along with bets being made via the internet with either the corporate bookies or Betfair, then the big turnover is done offtrack now.

For instance on the Hong Kong mile race yesterday in which Silent Witness was beaten, Tab Ltd had a win pool of $166,000, Supertab $115,000 while Betfair matched $772,000 on win bets.

[Punter4211]

Dear DarkyDog2002,

Thanks for your comments, nice to see I'm not alone doing the assessments on a Sunday

Well believe it or not Darky I do it all myself... I do not subscribe to a rating or pricing service, I concentrate only on Sydney Metropolitan races and I assess EVERY runner and EVERY race...

Then reverse the exercise on Thursdays to reveal my runner list for Saturday... I find the mid week races a bit low in class and so usually monitor them only. These races and provincials feed runners into the metro tracks so you need a handle on 'em.

I'm a professional computer programmer and so digesting all this info is a lot easier than doing it by hand, you could do everything I do with a pencil and paper, but it would take a while.

Normally I only come up with two or three selections on a Saturday with a hit rate of 70+ % .. (except for yesterday..33% Grrrr)

I am every trying to improve and that's why I frequent this site, I have so much more to learn.

Nice talking to you Darky, it's good to know there's someone else who can see the big picture...

Kind Regards

OzPunter

[Punter4211]

Dear Duritz,

In regard to your comment about building your own database...

I am a professional computer programmer and I built my database for nix...

Mind you it wasn't easy finding all the info but now I spend most Sundays assessing the runners and the races so that when I need info I can find it easilly...

Would there be any mutual benifit in colaborating?

Regards

OzPunter


Yeah I agree. Problem is of course there's no benefit to anyone to provide free ratings or tips. Advertising on web pages etc ain't enough in a localised punting environment like Australia's. People have to charge for the info. As you said, Experftform are now charging for their info, other's simply not providing it at all. I guess the thing that needs to be asked is if you have to pay for something, be sure and find a product worth paying for. If you want to do the form yourself (admirable, better than taking someone's tips at face value), find a service that gives you great, reliable info for not too high a price. There are mobs about who are like that. Expertform provide a great product with their video comments and superform and speed maps, and when they introduce ratings they'll have an all round complete package, an exceptional way to do the form. Racenet's package is good too, but isn't produced everywhere. I know a couple of very serious punters who subscribe to TRB, they do a great job. You may have to determine exactly what you want, find the right product at the right price, and make sure you punt properly so you can win and therefore justify the fee.

It's either that or do what I did - build you own database, but that has been a HELL of a lot of work, and I still have to pay a subscription fee to get the results and fields anyway. Back at the same thing - hard to get anything GOOD for free. At least not for long anyway.

Cheers.

[darkydog2002]

OZ PUNTER.
Thank you for your kind comments.
I guess there are many ways to skin a cat in this game.

LA MER.
I am from the "old school".Nothing like being out there mixing with paupers and kings/elbowing old priests out of the way to get a bet on /snipping a better price here and there.
Ah.The excitement of it all.

Cheers.
darky.

[La Mer]

I am from the "old school".Nothing like being out there mixing with paupers and kings/elbowing old priests out of the way to get a bet on /snipping a better price here and there.
Ah.The excitement of it all.

You ARE obviously from the 'old school' Darky, a dying breed indeed. I used to attend every Saturday metro meeting and a good deal of the midweekers as well, but those days are long gone and not likely to return. I've only been to the track on maybe three or four occasions this year and probably won't go again until the spring.

There is not much to attract the punter to the track anymore, costs of entry, racebooks and food/drink have risen, the bookies bet to too large an overround and the attraction of staying home any playing off the corporate bookies against Betfair is far greater.

I'm sitting here now in my lounge room watching the races on TVN and was amused by the comments of Andre Kassay who is the form guru covering the meeting @ Geelong. He mentioned that the bookies were betting to a 170% overround and I thought that's why I don't go to the track anymore.

Best of luck and watch out for the little old lady with the brolly.

[darkydog2002]

LA MER.
The little old ladies with Brollies are still out there and still not afraid to use them either, priests still hog the betting ring/touts are missing prefering I think to use the internet these days/dreamers are still there marking down TAB prices looking for the holy grail.
Gees.Nothing has changed really for 40 years except the crowds getting smaller and smaller.
I dread the day when the racetracks will become like NZ.
You could fire a shotty on there tracks and not hit a soul.
Cheers.
darky.

[Sportz]

Expertform have now added ratings to their horse history section. It looks very good. Don't know if it's in response to Ozeform dropping theirs, but that has to be a possibility.

[Duritz]

Yep the expertform ratings are launched now. Remember I told everyone that Expertform consider them the best ratings in the country? Well, you can now test them out. Sportz the Ozeform ratings being gone is just a happy (for expertform) co-incidence.

And they've added the ratings to more than just their horse history section. It's also in every formguide, and in every race search (ie you bring up any past race, all their ratings are there too).

Do the form using them tomorrow, then why don't we start a discussion about how they were.

[Sportz]

Found out it's only a free trial until the start of August.

[angel417]

Don't get me wrong here guys,have found this thread interesting reading compared to some of the other stuff,but I must admit to being somewhat bemused that management have not knocked it on the head before now.Isn't it part of forum terms of use not to advertise or promote any other service on here???And as far as ratings go,the ratings on this site have been very good to me over the past 4 years,and yes,they are free!!Now that I've said that,they will disappear!!

[Duritz]

LOL. The EF ratings service isn't in comp with this site though. And yep, the ratings on this site are great, to be honest. In order to come up with ratings though, you need ratings, if you follow me!