I know that harness racing may not be the 'go' with members of this forum (not mine either), but I have some questions for which I have never been given satisfactory answers in the past.

1. Weight - Form analysts agonise over half a kg. weight difference with the gallops; why doesn't the weight of the harness driver matter? I've heard something about momentum of the sulky 'pushing' the horse along, but surely the weight of the driver/sulky would influence that? And at standing starts it must be harder for the horse to gather momentum if the weight is greater. Any comments?

2. Harness fields in the paper. - why don't harness fields include the legends next to each runner (eg b = beaten fav., d = won at distance, etc.)like the gallops fields. Even remote country gallops fields seem to show this info., while even metro. trots fields don't. Anyone know the reason?

bomber

Good question and I have often pondered this myself.
I don't have the answer however but consider this:
Try pushing a wheelbarrow over 400m. with a 14 stone person it and then try the same thing with a 10 stone person.
Pull a loaded trailer uphill with your car and then repeat with half the load.
In relation to a harness driver, whether a few pounds makes a difference is problematical.
A 14 stone man however, compared to a 7 stone female, for example, and the difference could be significant.
I guess this question could be answered by someone expert in the laws of physics.

[ This Message was edited by: Imagele on 2004-01-21 12:40 ]

Well! A lot of lookers Eh and not many opinions.
:smile:

[ This Message was edited by: Imagele on 2004-01-21 23:03 ]

yeah, & what does that mean?

Maybe weight is a relevant form factor in harness racing, but punters aren't getting this vital info.

or

Maybe the harness guys are right, & gallops punters are wasting a whole heap of time & effort 'doing the weights'. Maybe weight carried doesn't really matter as much as we think it does.

bomber

"Yeah, and what does that mean"
It means that 189 browsers have looked at this post and only 1 has replied with an opinion. (me)

Can't fault your logic, Imagele.

I'd love to know of all the 'viewers', how many don't know the answer, & how many just can't be bothered posting a response.

When I posted these questions I thought there would be a straight forward answer & it was only my ignorance that stopped me from understanding. Now I'm starting to think there is something deeper here that everyone turns a blind eye to.

an afterthought - If weight does matter in harness racing, it would be a very easy way to influence results if the connections were a bit crooked. (an idle thought, not an accusation!)

bomber

I'll have a go.
I went to school with someone who became a (not very famous) trot driver. Now I'm just a bit over jockey size & he was almost twice as big as me. He told me that although he was probably a bit big to get anywhere in the game, light people were also not suitable as the gigs (which are very light!) tend to bounce around, putting the horse off stride, if the driver does not weigh a certain amount. Does that make sense?

thanks Mark. What you say does make sense, but I would think that there must be an optimum weight which balances the sulky without impeding speed.

If this is so, it would be useful to know the variation above or below this weight for each driver. It still seems a basic & perhaps important piece of info. is missing from harness racing formguides.

bomber

Hi BB,

I'll have a go as well....

I think it all comes down to the following... On flat ground, would you rather carry 100Kg on your back, or in a wheelbarrow?

Relying on some very old physics lessons, it is well accepted that it takes far more energy to get something rolling than it does to keep it rolling... I think that the difference in work required by a horse in dragging around a 60Kg driver vs an 80Kg driver is marginal... probably much less of a factor than "barrier" draw, and where the horse gets to sit in the running..

I also think there is a lot of merit in the "momentum" comment... I often notice drivers "swinging" in the sulky... I can only think that the reason they do this is that they're trying to get the horse to run even faster by "pushing" it along....

At the end of the day, a driver's weight is probably factored into their "ability"... often you can get a winner simply by weighing up the drivers and the draw, as opposed to looking in depth at the form.

Cheers,
Chris.

stebbo is correct,

the swinging movement in the sulky is like riding a horse hands and heels...it's the shift of weight which spurs the horse on.

As far as I can recall, it's really only started happening in the last 20 years and I can't remember which driver started doing it.

As to the weight of the driver, obviously a few kilos here or there doesn't make as much impact on pacer or trotter because...

a) the horse is not galloping.
b) the horse is not "carrying" the weight, he is merely pulling it.

The weight he is pulling is only fractional to what he is capable of especially as he is not galloping.

You could walk a far longer distance with a brick, than you could run.