i feel headturner is the horse to beat. just getting the experience required. only had a few starts and has been impressive, should have had pendragon last start, but i feel it was a good experience building run and should get the better of him this time. dunno bout him at those odds, maybe duelled is one to look for?

Well it appears I was wrong Hotel Grand isn't going for a spell but it isn't going to the Derby either

Sunday, 23 October 2005:

Hotel Grand has been ruled out of Saturday's Victoria Derby but could be a surprise starter in the weight-for-age Mackinnon Stakes.

The three-year-old led the field for much of Saturday's Cox Plate won by Makybe Diva but compounded to finish 15 lengths last.

However his trainer Anthony Cummings said he had pulled up well and if he continued to thrive, he would run in the Group One Mackinnon (2000m) on Saturday.

"Jay (Ford) said he didn't feel right but there was nothing obvious this morning," Cummings said.

"Whether it was the track, we don't know.

"I've talked it over with the owners and we've decided not to run in the Derby but he'll be entered for the Mackinnon.

"He'll gallop on Tuesday morning and we'll see where we are then."

Hotel Grand has had just six starts and the Cox Plate was his first outing on a rain-affected surface.

Cummings will still have a Derby runner with Replicator to line up as somewhat of a forgotten horse at $15 in most markets with Pendragon and Headturner heading betting.

Replicator ran third to that pair in the Norman Robinson Stakes last Saturday and fourth to Hotel Grand in the Spring Champion.

"The markets don't seem to think he has a chance but he keeps picking up cheques every time he runs and I think the 2500 metres will suit," Cummings said.

Hotel Grand's half brother Outback Prince, who finished second last in the Cox Plate, sustained an injury to his near front fetlock but Cummings said it was not too serious and he hoped to have him back for the Group One Emirates (1600m) on Saturday week.

Although dissapointed in Hotel's Grand's flop,

Have seen too many horses flop on their 1st wet Experience,

Then come out and improve immensely on the same surface.

For this case should Hotel Grand run I will have something on it.

i really like headturner except for the fact that both times ive backed it (500 hunj each time lol?) hes been beaten a short half head but i do like its prospects in the derby. with a little bit more speed up front than last start i think ull find it too good although i have to agree with raw its a pretty poor field. definitely one of the worst ive seen in recent years

i like Benicio

What did people think of Duelleds run on the weekend?

watching replay now

The best run out of the Vase was Benicio by far. Forget Duelled, Pendragon has accounted for it with ease in 2 runs this campaign and there's been nothing to suggest it can turn the tables on that.

I can't split Headturner and Pendragon. I think its a fairly safe quinella.

Was just looking at the weights for the card, and Headturner isn't listed in the derby field. Have i missed something?

I see what you mean. Don't worry though. It's obviously a mistake. They only have 8 horses listed and there'll be more than that in the Derby.

should of stick with it