So much argument on weights here and yet there are not a lot of horses who can really get the 3200m.
Overseas horses are accustomed to running over these distances much more than our horses. That is why they have been able to figure in the finish so well.
The question is could Northerly or Sunline get the 3200m?

The answer-
Not in this lifetime!

1. That good punter Don Scott went broke and topped himself. Among Don's 1950's beliefs were that times are irrelevant. In sprint racing in particular I believe that is clearly false.
2. Don't presume that I would win more money if I adopted your approach.
3. On what basis do you weight Give The Slip within 1.5kgs of Vinnie Roe?
4. Metrop October long weekend, then Cox Plate, then Cup. Jeune is one of the few Cup winners in recent times to not have the 2400 run as a lead up.
5. How do you compare 5YO's to 4YO's class wise if not by the WFA scale?

1. Don Scott made more money than you

2. "Don't presume that I would win more money if I adopted your approach." You can lead a horse to water but you ...

3. On what basis do you weight Give The Slip within 1.5kgs of Vinnie Roe? GTS would have won last year if not for track bias.

4. Metrop was the race before the cox, 21 days before. Also Saintly placed twice over 2400m in a previous campaign.

5. You compare them on the basis of proven ability. Some horses peak at 4, others at 5 or older. You consider how good the horse is not its age.

1. Yes he won more than me and he also lost more than he won. That's why he's pushing daisies. Still, you follow him if it turns you on.
2. I don't follow.
3. Your appraisal of GTS in the 2001 Cup is probably right. I repeat my question though, how do you get a horse with GTS's record within 1.5 of Vinnie Roe?
4. Correctamundo
5. All horses are compared on ability - that's obvious. My question is how do you compare the same horse to itself 12 months on. Take Magical Miss. As a Scott disciple, how do you rate her first up in the Aurie's Star having not raced since being a November 3YO?

Slow Horse,
Vinnie Roe is a genuine high class stayer.
If you give him 57.5 in the Cup you better not take up the bookmaker business.
Dermot Weld has set this horse for the 2002 Cup for over 12 months.

Forgive my ignorance here, but I believe Don Scott died of a heart-attack and was not poor when he died. Also he was a much feared punter in the 70's and early 80's never in the 50's.
I could be wrong but....

Johnny Diamond tells me it was a conspiracy by bookies to leak to the press that Don committed suicide.
(For those who don't know, JD was a close friend of Don and a force to be reckoned with in the late 70's.)

[ This Message was edited by: Equine Investor on 2002-09-03 18:04 ]

Vinnie Roe may well may a great horse but consider this -

1 He's got to travel 000's of kms to get here.
2 He has never raced in Australia.
3 He has to break a 30yr weight carrying record to win with 59kgs
4 Australia staying races are much different to overseas races

Other than Think Big, no horse has carried 57.5kgs or more to win the MC in the past 30 years, so 57.5kgs is a fair weight.

Every year we are told that UK horses are superior. Every year they flop or run a place at best. Remember Oscar Schindler, he was being rapped as unbeatable and he got flogged.

I would make a killing if I went into the bookmaking business, because I understand the relevance of weight. Most punters don't.

Hammers wrote:

1. "............ and he also lost more than he won." Says who? u? I think you are wrong.

2. "I don't follow" - you can't make him drink. If you adopted my approach U would have backed Sunline in the Doncaster. I had several thousand on her. And U wouldn't be backing horses with 58kgs in the MC.

3. "Your appraisal of GTS in the 2001 Cup is probably right. I repeat my question though, how do you get a horse with GTS's record within 1.5 of Vinnie Roe?"
A: GTS has proven himself under the race conditions and is a fast horse which helps with Aust-style racing.

5. All horses are compared on ability - that's obvious. My question is how do you compare the same horse to itself 12 months on. Take Magical Miss. As a Scott disciple, how do you rate her first up in the Aurie's Star having not raced since being a November 3YO?

A: Firstly, I'm not a Scott disciple, I merely use some of his principles (not all though). Last year MM beat 3yo fillies. So far this year she has beaten Northerly, Fields of O my God, DFC etc..
She has now proven herself against top company.

Equine,
Don Scott cashed in his own chips. What possible motive would bookmakers have for saying he killed himself if he didn't and since when has the NSW Bookmakers Association had a mole in the Coroners Court?

His ideas were formulated in the 50's from stuff he read about Pittsburgh Phil who was a big punter in the early 20th Century in the USA. Don had no use for or knowledge of times,pace,speed maps or sectionals.

He was one dimentional, had his glory years then fell in a heap when other punters and bookmakers got their markets "more correct" than his. He tried betting in Melbourne and failed, flogged countless rehashes of his books and died broke.

His probated will which is a public document is testimony.

Hey Hammers, you really got the joint rocking & rolling with this little posting!
Where were you yesterday, could have done with your help, was virtually chairing the forum all on my lonesome!