That's right. My buddy just told me we say FA also, F'in A!!!!

If Durkin had a sense of humour, he would of said something like "G'day Alinghi and welcome to America" or the like. I guess he doesn't want to ******** any one off who tried to beat her.

Question:
Alinghi wins first-up over 1700m in America. Similarly, in Europe this is not an unusual occurrence to see horses embarking on such campaigns.
In Australia, we would be horrified to see such demands put on our elite performers so early in their campaigns.
I know that particularly in Europe the soft tracks certainly assist in the longevity of a horse's racing career compared to our relatively flint hard surfaces here.
Also, I notice that particularly in England it is not unusual for horses to be allowed to amble over undulating hills at a steady pace to get fit for a first up tilt over a distance in excess of 1600m.
This leads me to ask: "do we pamper our horses too much here in Australia?"
Any views on this matter?

Cheers.

One factor in American horses winning first up may be the recent "fad" in training horses in a Chantilly long, stamina buildg gallops. Our horses are already bred to death for speed so that doesn't have to be trained per se. Michael Dickinson trains his horses on a long undualting course at his Tapeta Farm in nearby North East, Maryland on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. It's a beautiful facility and has been the training grounds for perhaps (NO Definitely!) the most astounding semi-first up win in horse racing history. DA HOSS won the Breeder's Cup mile off one cheap prep race after being off for 2 years(having won the BC mile that year as well). I remember watching the race and not even being surprised he won; that's how much Dickinson's reputation speaks. I was sure mad I didn't bet him though! He also won the DeFrancis Dash (G1) at Laurel race course in Maryland with A HUEVO in a similar fashion. His website is excellent (TAPETA.COM) and shows a map of where the farm is and where I live (Wilmington, Delaware) for the US geaographic newbies. Tapeta is about 1/2 an hour away from me and I sometimes have to work at the adjacent breeding farm (Michael+William Moran's farm-they breed and race some nice turfers). I often make a "wrong" turn in my work truck to drive around Tapeta. Funny (and scary these days) the things you can get away with in a work van and a friendly wave. Dickinson will usually be driving along in his little Volkswagen or something next to the gallopers. Rally neat. The best quote about him "He could train a team of chihauhas to win the Iditarod!"


Sorry for rambling all the time but stuff like this kicks me in the ********!
Because of Dickinson's success with this type training, lots of trainers are following "the mad genius'" lead. Before it was drill drill drill speed speed speed. Now they realize how much stamina can help a horse's well-being and competitive nature. Of course, the medications here are probably a factor as well. Aussies be proud that you can do it the right way and don't think of it as pampering. AFLEET ALEX (trained by Del Park trainer Tim Ritchey, yep little old Delaware Park might have the best horse around!) has been trained with everyday looong gallops so he can carry his excellent turn of foot(remember the Preakness?) a route of ground. Naysayers were in abundance before the triple crown, especially from some "big time"(Did these guys ever even start a horse in the Triple Crown?) New York trainers. They ended up with foot in mouth disease. Another example is Tommy Voss' style of giving a horse a shot at steeple-chasing to build his strength. If the horse can jump, he keeps jumping. If not, the horse goes long on the flat turf a la "John's Call"(3rd BC Turf, 1st G1 Man O' War at 9 years old!) I saw Johnny fall in his jump career at Fair Hill (another famous training ground in Elkton, MD)nd never thought he would end up being my all time favorite many years later and running in the BC Turf. This small area of Maryland, Delaware, and Pennsylvania is home to so many world class trainers (Graham Motion, Dickinson, Voss, J. Shepherd, Ritchey, John Servis-Smarty Jones, Barclay Tagg-Funny Cide, Bill Boniface-Spectacular Bid, Carl Hanford-5xhorse of year KELSO, etc.), onwers(Christiana Stables, Bohemia Stables, Augustin Stables, Woodstock Farm, Tapeta, Elk Manor Farms(Moran), WINFIELD FARMS!!!-breeder and racer of NIJINSKY II and the top sire of 20th century NORHERN DANCER) and jockeys(Chris McCarron, Kent Desormeaux, Edgar Prado, Bill Hartick, and on the jumps Johnathon Smart, Blythe Miller. Chip Miller, Bruce Miller, Sean and Joe Clancy(they run the Steeplechase News here in the states now), Scotty Schulhofer + Barclay Tagg(yep they were jump riders!). Just an amazing breeding ground of horse racing talent in an area smaller than Ayers Rock!

ALINGHI might face males next in the G1 Shadwell Turf Mile at Keeneland (the most beautiful track in America in the heart of breeding country in Lexington, Kentucky-GO if you come to the states in April or October) on October 8. Bobby Frankel said her long term goal is the G1 Matriarch at Hollywood Park on Nov. 27. She will definitely not go in the Breeder's Cup as the supplemation fee is much too high to make it viable. alinghi should remain in training until the middle of 2006 when she will be retired and sent home to you for the beginning of Southern Hemisphere breeding season. Who do you think the lucky boy will be?

Don't be surprised if the lucky boy will be either Redoutes Choice or maybe her nemesis here Fastnet Rock would lean towards possibly Redoutes though.

I thought I heard that. You gotta love classy breeding top and bottom. Lets all pitch in and buy the foal! Propun Stables Zillion Dollar yearling

Sounds like a great idea one problem we need about another few hundred people here to be able to pay for it.

Ha Ha! At least!

hey saratoga!

I've posted a question for you in the "Race Betting Systems Forum" and looking forward to your response.

Cheers.

Checking now Xanny, but I might not answer for a couple of hours as I'd like to go bet the pigs(Do you guys call bad horses "cats"? I've seen Stix say it a few times. You crazy Aussies talk funny! Just kidding my didgaradoo mates!

G'day saratoga,

A couple of years ago the NSWTAB tried to get U.S.racing "off the ground" here in Australia by operating on Friday U. S. meetings(a track in Kentucky was one and I am unsure of the others) which came through here in the early hours of Saturday.
It proved to be an unsuccessful venture as the horses were generally of a lower standard and there was no viable form available. Also. more importantly, Oz punters were too pre-occupied with doing the form leading up to our own weekend venues.
My question is : are there numerous tracks in Kentucky and generally, are they viable betting venues?
My main observation was that the horses appeared to run each furlong at an even rate whereas our style of racing here is to more or less "sit and sprint."
Whose do you think is the most effective racing pattern?

Cheers.

Maybe the dingo took your baby-Elaine from Seinfeld. I don't know why I posted that.

Xanadu, I just looked for about 5 minutes on that forum but didn't find your question, until I came back here. I have to ponder that for a while because although I'm aware of these differences between here and Aus/Europe, I've never thought about what was a better way, I just figured the whole while in Rome thing. I have some ideas already but I want to really come up with a strong objective opinion. As for Kentucky, the Spring and Fall meet at Keeneland in Lexington are very strong with the best horses around running. (VERY STRONG INSIDE SPEED BIAS ON THE DIRT THERE. If you come across an outside closer who did well there, give him a good look on a closers or honest track. The turf there is generally kind to closers but I think it is pretty fair.) CHURCHILL DOWNS is in Louisville about 80 miles north west of Lexington near the Indiana border on the banks of the Ohio river. 80 miles physically, but a world of difference in the towns and the tracks. Churchill is an old track that has been recently renovated as it is the home of the World'd Most famous race (sorry rest of world,but this is not just a boast from an obnoxious Yank). The DERBY, not Darby.) But the purse for the Kentucky Derby is a joke. It's only $1 million US and just got raised from 750k a couple of years ago(not much by todays standards). But win it and you are set for life as long as your horse doesn't need Viagra. Louisville is becoming a typical US city with crime and decay and those are the areas that surround Churchill. Lexington is a horsey city with lots of cash and opulent horse farms on all the outskirts of the city. The whole city is circled by the interstate and roads extend out like spokes on a tire, only out instead of in. Each spoke contains the World's(that word again) most famous Horse farms. Calumet stands next to the track which is also on a spoke. Adena Springs, Claiborne, Stonerside, Pin Oak, Overbrook, Airdrie, Coolmore, The THorougbred Corp. all there. HUGE FARMS with white clapboard fences and green fields containing the best stallions around.

Ellis Park is a mediocre track along with Turfway Park near Cincinnati. Churchill runs a fall meet from Nov through Dec and a spring meet from the first week in May until July. They have great racing the first two weeks until the Derby is run on the 1st Saturday in may, when it becomes a decent track with good purses and second level horses from some of the top notch trainers. Order of bettability (Keeneland(lots of favorites though), Churchill, Ellis, Turfway(mostly runs at night here), and the now defunct BLUEGRASS DOWNS in good old Paducah near Illinois.) I'm also partial to Kenneland because I proposed to my wife there. They also have kick ass tailgate parties before the races begin. Like a football game.I've never seen anything like it.

The Breeder;s Cup is at Monmouth Park in NJ next year, if anyone dedides to come over for it, let me know. I live about 2 hours from Monmouth and 2 1/2 hours from Belmont and NYC. I live about 5-6 hours from Saratoga, but well worth the drive.

Saratoga,

It's under a thread: "Saratoga Samchaz" in the other forum. It specifically asks if you have any "systems" which have proved to be successful in the U.S. and may be viable here.
I see that you are "one for one" in your tipping prowess, getting Tommifrancs up the other day-keep up the good work!

Cheers.

I gotta give credit to Sportz on that one as he turned me on to him the run before last, but I did pick him on my own last time. Thanks for the compliment but I think ended up switching to Ilbach for some reason. Just found the program for Tues.night/Wes day and did switch thinking a better price, Ilbach's vastly improved barrier position from his previous 3 races (12, 10, 8) while the deep closer Tommifrancs was moving out to the 10 hole after starting in the 8, 4, 8, 1, +7, and not to mention Iilbach had run a good one against Tommi. I also saw Il had been starting against bigger fields while Tom had shorter fields, leading me to believe Ilbach's competitive spirit might make the difference. I think horses on the pace were doing better that day and Ilbach definitely is a stayer who looks to like a route of ground while Tommi fooled me into thinking he might like a mile or 7 furlongs best.(should have known since he's by REAL QUIET-Bob Baffert's 2 and 99/100% winner of the three legs of our triple crown, losing by a nose toVictory Gallop in the Belmont Stakes. I was there that day and it was a very somber mood after that race because it was SOOOOO close yet so far-26 years since we've had one)

This is an example of how I handicap most races. I try to remain flexible and not get too attached/loyal or hate a horse or trainer because he beats me. Instead I jump on the wagon if it's the right time and price. I did it the other night with Sir Dex and it paid off. Dex beat me in the Warwick with Dizelle and I immediately swore Dizelle would get him next time. When I handicapped the Chelmsford stakes I started to think Sir Dex might not be a fluke and has just developed into a nice 5 year old. He hung at the top of the stretch but made a second move to gamely get 2nd in a nose to nose finish that was closer than Real Quiet's Belmont. He isn't going to win by open lengths but he looks like he will always try his hardest. I Love that in a horse! Some horses need to win for their ego, they're the kind I like. Sounds laughable in a way but we sometimes forget we are dealing with living, breathing creatures whose needs and wants are alot like ours. The only thing about this kind of handicapping is, it can't be quantified like a true "system" but if I were ever able to put it on paper, I'd call it the "Don't let a horse with heart beat you again, you big dummy, system!" Now will I bet Sir Dex next out? I really don't know.

Concerning the "wait and Sprint" style, I think it is more effective on courses that are not as standardized as here. Especially when they UNDULATE like the Rise (see, I'm learning). If a horse didn't save any energy after running up hill he would stop dead. Our Steeplchase races run in the same sprint it out at the end style and most of these are run on varying terrain. I can't honestly say one is better than the other, per se.

Xanadu, here is a piece of advice that just came into my head while perusing the form for Monday's last day of racing at the grand old Spa- Saratoga. Labor Day weekend here in the states has always been a bit of a downer as it signified the end of Summer, the beginning of the new school year, and as an adult- the end of the upstate NY meet.


ASSISTANT TRAINER RECOGNITION SYSTEM

(nice technical name, huh)
Here in the states, as I'm sure in OZ, the big outfits have many horses. Now do you really think a guy like D. Wayne Lukas, Robert Frankel, or Gai Waterhouse are really putting their hands on their horses? It's not even possible here, where most big trainers have horses running all over the country. Top trainers become top trainers through heads up organizational skills and reading the condition books of all pertinent race tracks. They manage their team like a GM of a professional sports team and are integral to the team's success. But just like in sports, without a good game day coach, the team will lose. ASSISTANT TRAINERS are these head coaches. They give helpful hints to the big guy with his name on the program and this Trainer has the final decision, gting all the credit for big equipment changes, stretching a sprinter out, or changing the horses running style. The poor, hard working Asst. is quite happy for awhile, being the right hand man and bringing in some decent cash while having the responsibility of running a barn yard full of workers and horses. Inevitably, the realization that they are really running the show hits and they are forced to make a risky decision; strike out on their own or play it safe and stick with the security of the big time trainer. Competitive by necessity, the assistant moves on with one or two horses from a thankful owner and/or from the Big Trainer who knows he couldn't have done it without the asst. Big Time has been there too.

Follow these assistants when they go out on their own and realize that their stable won't be powerful right away. Look for the same angles that made the Big Guy such a winner and exploit the bigger price you will get with this relative unknown. The key to all this is learning the assistant trainers' names and keeping it fresh in your memory bank. no one else will even know who he is. I made some big scores on Todd Pletcher when he first broke away from D. Wayne Lukas and now he is the top trainer in America.

The one advantage to this system here, is the lack of in your face information about horse racing. There are all kinds of places to get the information you need and want but you just have to work for it. The casual race fan in America doesn't even buy the Daily Racing Form- this is the Rosetta Stone of racing and I truly believe you can't win without it. The little rinky dink programs sold on track are basically useless to me. Some of them don't even have any other horses listed in the past erformances except the winner of that race. People are ready to sacrifice invaluable information for the sake of saving a couple of bucks, which in the long run should cost them anyway. In Australia, horse racing is treated with respect and adoration as the great sport should be. But that means more people follow it, more information is easily availavble, and the average person at least understands the game. This cuts down on your element of surprise concerning the Asst sneaking in under the radar for a while, giving you your own private gold mine.


D. Wayne Lukas school of trainers-graduates
Todd Pletcher
Dallas Stewart
John Kimmel
even Steve Asmussen and Linda Rice had contacts with D. Wayne while they were learning the game at an early age from their respective parents breeding and pin hooking operations

Thanks for that Saratoga,

We punters here in Australia believe that we have the "best of both worlds" by having bookmakers providing fixed odds and the paramutuals(tote) to compare and choose the "value" odds.
This provides the smart punter with the opportunity to get an "edge" in this game.
What do you think and can't you open an internet betting account in this part of the world to take advantage of this opportunity?

Cheers.

Hey Saratoga,

What do you think about our colloquialisms here in Oz such as :
"the favourite was done like a dinner,"
"the leader has something up his sleeve"-we are aware of the trouble that racecaller, Michael Rona(Roner?) found himself in after uttering this colourful phrase in the U.S..
There are innumerable others that you may have encountered and are there any which require translation like "barry crocker"....meaning "shocker"....meaning an ill-judged ride.

Cheers.

Hey Xanny, Yep, I plan on opening an acct as soon as I have a little extra $$. I took the first step last week and re-opened my Phone Bet Acct here in the Philly area. (I hadn't used it since 1997 and opened back in like 1991!). I'm going to put some more in the Phone Bet in a little while so I can sit at home and bet the Aussies while talking to all you guys. I get so frustrated waiting for all the excellent info on here whil researchingthe web (like Barrier Trials, Steward's Reports, Stats, and Track Maps) in a rush before heading to the Turf Club. I'm not asking anybody to rush their tips,,,, I understand it takes an Artiste to win at this game, The best values are in the place and show pools over here in the later races (5,6,7 as we don't take them all the way through usually) I think I can grab the best of bothe worlds and have a great time instead of fighting with the Manager at club. I do enjoy the comradrie from the select few that play the Aussies-the smartest and best 'cappers at the track in my opinion, and grab a lot of info from them as well.Sportz gave me a couple of great internet sites over there. Does Australia have regular local bookies on the treack apron like in Ireland? And how about Turf Accountants in shops around town? It was great in Ireland on vacation, hanging out and betting horses. The best had to be going to Punchestown Race Course outside Dublin near Naas. A large 2 mile oval, I got to see some great's like Doran's Pride and Danoli (the pride of Neal and Foley as the Irish song goes.) There were a lot of "rats", "pigs" or "dogs" there also. (Our lingo for Bad Horses.

What are you trying to say, Xan? Aussies have some wacky slang?? LOL

I gotta tell ya something, every Aussie I've met or come into contact with has been alright with me! I do alot of Skiing and my Brother(moving to Perth next week, weird ain't it!) used to live near Jackson Hole, Wyoming, so on visits there I would come into contact with a lot of Aussies. Disclaimer: This is only my opinion so don't anybody get offended (can't see how you could anyway). Average Aussie: Happy go lucky, rowdy, beer not wine coolers, boisterous, above average intelligence but not smart ya know what I mean...down to earth, passionate(horses and skiing for sure), and excitable. Doesn't seem like there's too many bad apples down there, proportionately.

I do have alot of trouble with the lingo, but I first try to figure it out before asking. I have no problem asking because I'm an info freak.

My brother told me about a guy calling him something that could be construed as derogatory, but after explaining it he was only calling him a Yank! It seems like a lot of the sayings you guys use come from rhyming with the word it is meant to represent, like "Crocker" meaning shocker, and whatever that guy called my bro. That thing about Rona cracks me up, since we say that also, but mean "he's up to something" either good or bad. I don't see how people could be so dumb.

ALINGHI is rACING IN about ten minutes in the
Shadewell Turf at one mile. She is the 2-1 favorite right now. Funny that trainer Bobby Frankel took a shot at our Daily Raing Form because they have ALINGHI as leading in all her races in AUS. That's why I asked Sportz about that a while ago. Be back in a bit.

Host Explodes In Stretch For Shadwell Turf Mile Win
Lexington, KY (October 8, 2005)

Winning jockey Raphael Bejarano raised a fist after winning the Shadwell Turf Mile (G1) at Keeneland.
Host "exploded" in the stretch under jockey Rafael Bejarano to win the $600,000 Grade 1 Shadwell Turf Mile Stakes Saturday at Keeneland.

Still seventh with a quarter mile remaining in the one-mile turf race, the Chilean-bred 5-year-old charged down the middle of the course to prevail by a neck over Vanderlin.

"My horse broke good and went easily to the half," said Bejarano. "Even though he usually shows speed, he relaxed for me. When I asked him to run, he just exploded."

Vanderlin held the lead in deep stretch under British jockey Richard Hughes but the 6-year-old gelding couldn't hold off Host's stretch rally. Vanderlin held on for second, 2 3/4 lengths in front of Gulch Approval.

The time was 1:37.67.

Host won for the eighth time in 14 career starts and increased his lifetime earnings to $647,119 for Melnyk Racing Stables, Inc. He is trained by Todd Pletcher.

Host paid $22.80, $9.80 and $6. Vanderlin, who was sent to North America in mid summer, returned $19.20 and $11.20. Gulch Approval returned $12.

Australian champion Alinghi, the only filly in the 10-horse field, finished eighth under jockey Edgar Prado.

"This filly was training super leading up to this race," said Prado. "She just didn't like the give in the turf course today. She is a champion though, and she will be back to fight another day."

In the race prior to the Shadwell Turf Mile, Dawn of War earned a trip to New York for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile with an upset win in the $500,000, Grade 1 Lane's End Breeders' Futurity for 2-year-olds.

Jockey John Jacinto hustled the 36-1 outsider from the No. 9 position to the lead and the son of Catienus was never headed while posting his third career victory.

"This is the biggest win I have ever had," said Jacinto. "Mr. (trainer Dale) Romans told me that if I wanted to go to the lead, it was okay. My horse is fast and he ran easy."

Dawn of War avenged a loss to Laity in the Miller Lite Cradle Stakes last month at River Downs while running the 1 1/16 miles on the fast track in 1:48.77.

"This horse always tries hard," said Romans of Dawn of War. "We kind of let Laity get away from us a River Downs. From the outside we had to go. It's always nice to have a speed horse at Keeneland, regardless of how the earlier races have been running."

It was 3 1/2 lengths back to second-place Catcominatcha, who was 3 1/4 lengths in front of Kentucky Cup Juvenile Stakes winner Stream Cat. Sharp Attack was a neck back in fourth.

Greater Fool, who had won his only start three weeks ago at Belmont Park, collapsed a sixteenth of a mile past the finish line of apparent exhaustion. He was revived by veterinarians and track workers and walked onto a waiting horse ambulance.

Jockey Shaun Bridgmohan was thrown to the track but was not injured.

Dawn of War earned $310,000 for owners Ken and Sarah Ramsey. The win improved his career record to 6-3-3-0 and increased his lifetime earnings to $403,800.

The winner paid $74.60, $24.20 and $11.20. Catcominatcha, ridden by Rafael Bejarano, returned $16.60 and $8.60 and Stream Cat, with Mike Smith substituting for Kieren Fallon, paid $4.20.

In a supporting feature, Elusive Jazz took the lead at the top of the stretch and gradually pulled away to a three-length victory in the $266,500, Grade 3 Phoenix Breeders' Cup Stakes.

The 4-year-old son of Elusive Quality ran six furlongs on the fast track in 1:11.60 and posted his fourth lifetime victory in 14 career starts. He earned $165,230 for G. James Phelps' Stony Oak Farm, LLC.

"The Breeders Cup is coming up," said Bobby Barnett, indicating that Elusive Quality's next start could be the Breeders' Cup Sprint on October 29 at Belmont Park. "We'll see how he comes out of this race and then decide."

Wild Tale, a 21-1 outsider, rallied from sixth place to finish second, 11/4 lengths in front of third-place Premium Saltine. It was 13/4 lengths back to fourth-place in the field of eight 4-year-olds and upward.

Elusive Jazz, ridden by Robby Albarado, paid $17, $8.20 and $5 as the fifth choice.

"Bobby gave me great instructions," said Albarado. "He told me to keep him covered up. Horses have been coming off the pace today so I was comfortable with my position. He ran on well down the lane."

Wild Tale returned $19.20 and $9 and Premium Saltine paid $4.20.

It was the first stakes win for Elusive Jazz, who increased his career earnings to $306,931.

Trainer Bobby Frankel was obviously concerned about the condition of the Keeneland Turf course in the pre-race interview when he complained about the chopped up surface and why it was that way in only the second day of racing at the Keeneland meet. Alinghi didn't seem to like the turf, but also seemed to have nowhere to go entering the stretch and may have been reserved by jockey Edgar Prado when he realized he had no chance.

KEEP THE FAITH ran a very game third last weekend after setting blistering fractions on the front end against some of the best turfers here including ARTIE SCHILLER. Good to see the dirt race was a poor judgement call by Bin Suroor(real surprise there!)