They'll run her. Why wouldn't you run her?? She's a racehorse, it's what they're for.

However, she won't win it. Not with 58. Sorry all. I'm her biggest fan (bar perhaps Santic) but she won't win this race.

They'll run her. Why wouldn't you run her?? She's a racehorse, it's what they're for.

However, she won't win it. Not with 58. Sorry all. I'm her biggest fan (bar perhaps Santic) but she won't win this race. And I'm not potting her. I said on this forum (not this thread, but this forum) that she was absolutely unbeatable in the Cox, so believe me I don't underestimate her abilities, I know exactly how good she is, but she won't win the Cup. Not with 2.5 kgs above WFA with a host of up and coming stayers around 4-8 kgs below WFA. She cannot give them that weight start and beat them. She can't give Leica Falcon (merely one example) 8 kgs and beat him. Effectively, she's giving him 9.5 kilos, because she's 2.5 above WFA and he's 7 below (on memory). That will stop her.

Whoever it was who mentioned Demerger earlier - back her. She'll fly.

Hmm. Bit of deja vu all over again there......

Never mind. The first version was simply for people who couldn't be bothered reading ALL of the second version. :D

Well, what did I tell ya? Geez, what on earth was I thinking back then? Even just a little fiver on the Diva like I threw on Vinnie Roe would have been handy.

Duritz-she certainly won and won in grand style.
There's an old truism in life .....horses and loose women will always make fools of men....

Cheers.

Yeah, I can certainly understand people picking another horse to beat her, but even if you did that, surely there's just no way you could say that she COULDN'T win. She's just too good to rule out completely like that.

Not just in this race, but in many other races too, an awful lot of racing people seem to go looking for reasons why the best horse in the race CAN'T win, instead of simply looking for why they CAN.

Well put Sportz....many of us under-estimated her incredible ability. What about the $1MILL punter...he would have had no real problems.
Salute the champion!

Cheers.

I'll never forget it. It was the last day of the Melbourne Cup carnival in 2002 and an up and coming 4 year old mare with a funny name won the Queen Elizabeth Stks with a very impressive performance. Well, I was SO impressed that I remember very clearly saying "That horse is going to win the Melbourne Cup next year". I never thought it would turn out like this!!! Incredible.

I'll eat my hat.

Though in fairness, and people probably did see in another thread, I actually came around to her in the end. When I ended up doing the form after final fields were through, on Sunday, I found myself saying, "Well, she could win it after all."

I didn't back her, and you don't have to believe me but I did actually have her top pick in the end, but wasn't going to take the $3.60.

The way she accelerated with the 58.... my word.

Just quickly though, heaps of people are comparing her to the greats of the turf, she wouldn't have beaten Might And Power level weights 2400m. Everyone forgets him. Don't know why. Remember, she didn't run down Elvis, and Elvis ain't no Might and Power.

She's a champ, a "legend" to quote Greg Miles, but he would've beat her at level weights every time, and possibly over 3200 too. THAT would've been the interesting bit. See if he could hold her out over 2 mile. NO DOUBT he would've beat her 2400, 2 mile...? Interesting.

thats rubbish duritz..... she won 3 MELB CUPS.... are ppl forgetting that?????

He won one too, and his was leading all the way, TAKEN ON all the way by 3 different horses. They tag teamed taking him on and he fought them all off. He also won a Cox Plate.

As for what I said about 2400m. Did she ever win the Caulfield Cup? She ran 2nd to Elvstroem of course. Do you think Elvstroem would've beaten Might and Power that day he won his Caulfield Cup? Don't think so Eddie, lock in answer C Eddie, for the million, "Might and Power was the best 2400m horse of the last 25 years."

Again, I want to stress I am NOT potting Makybe Diva. I think she is a CHAMPION, an unbelieveable racehorse, but M&P was better over 2400.

if she wanted a caulfield cup she would have taken one. i tell you know. mind you the penalty would have ruined any melb cup preparations she had going. u forgetting she beat elvis over 2000m in record time? i think shed do the other 400m seeing as thought she loves the 3200m

She's a champion, a legend etc, but no horse in the world, and possibly no horse ever, would've beaten Might and Power the day he won his Caulfield Cup.

So what? That was definitely one of the most brilliant performances I've seen and he was certainly a magnificent racehorse, but that was just ONE race. He didn't win it 3 years in a row, did he???

Ask any owner/trainer/jockey what race they most want to win. Some might say Cox Plate and perhaps a few might say Golden Slipper or Caulfield Cup, but the overwhelming majority would say Melbourne Cup. Despite what anyone says about it being just a staying handicap, it is still Australia's great race. And she's won it THREE times. In a row. Incredible.

And she hasn't just won the Melbourne Cup this year. She's won the Australian Cup, The BMW and the Cox Plate, the 3 biggest WFA middle distance races in the country. So she's not just some plugging 3200m stayer that can't perform over shorter distances.

Well I agree with all of you guys we actually have seen HISTORY in the making. However I think we have also seen next years cup winner if he makes it through the next twelve months and that horse is Leica Falcon, put him in the Black Book.

Sportz - everything you said is true, and I am not trying to contradict any of those points. I also have never referred to her as a plugger or come anywhere near it. She is the best stayer in the country. She is also currently the best WFA horse in the country. I think she's a champion and one of the best 3 horse's I've seen.

All I am saying, and I don't know why people want to shoot me down for this but all I am saying is that over 2000-2400, Might and Power was better.

Not potting MD. Never would. Again, to repeat, I think she's the best horse in the country, best stayer, best WFA horse, obviously best mare. Just saying though, that he was better, and that's more due to his freakish abilities than to any lack on her part, because there is no lack on her part, it's just testament to how good he was.

your on the money
 

you are dead right ther duritz.....you have to love a good day.........slowman..

duritz...

might and power didnt break the 2000m record.... maykbe diva did and it was on a good track.

She broke the 2000m Flemington record. Beating Winning Belle mind you. Is Winning Belle therefore better than Might and Power...?

(times are meaningless)

Anyway, M&P never raced at the Flemington 2000m so we won't pot him on that. He only raced over 2000m on GOOD TRACKS on two occasions. One of them was a failure, the other he came 1st, by 6 lengths, at RANDWICK (not Flemington), running only 0.6 seconds SLOWER than Makybe's 2000m record. Oh yeah, he was a 3yo then too...

He also beat fellow Melbourne Cup winner Champagne in Sydney one day by 10.5 lengths, in a Group 1. She ran 2nd.

He destroyed lots of fields like that, including of course beating multiple Group 1 winner Gold Guru by 5 lengths in Sydney one day, (in that race Caulfield AND Melbourne Cup winner Doriemus ran 3rd to him), and of course there's the day he beat the Caulfield Cup field by 7.5 lengths, in then track record time.

Oh yeah, and in case you don't believe me that times are meaningless, how's this for a time comparison - Might and Power's Cox Plate, fastest 2040m ever run on the Strathayr MV. And he led all the way. (that's right, faster than the Diva's even!)

Quick statistical comparison:

Might and POwer -- Makybe Diva

M.P. - 33 starts 15 wins (45.5%) - M. D. 36 starts 15 wins (41.7%)

M.P. - 7 Group 1 Victories (21.2%) - M.D. 7 Group 1 Victories (19.4%)

MP - 3 Group 2 Victories (9%) - MD 3 Group 2 Victories (8%)

MP - 2 Listed/G3 victories (6%) - MD 1 Listed/G3 victory (3%)


Quick formline comparison, 2400m:

Caulfield Cup, 2004 - Elvstroem beats Makybe Diva sht head.

Caulfield Cup, 1997 - Might and Power wins, 7.5 lengths.

Recent MRC Virtual Caulfield Cup competition, winner - Might and Power, 2nd - Let's Elope, 3rd - Elvstroem.

Argument is futile. Don't let emotion get in the way of your judgement. He was the better horse.

AGAIN, for those who will shoot me down, I am NOT potting MDiva. I think she is in the best 3 I have seen.

But he was better.

i was sure they said it was a national record...

you forget to mention something in your stats.... PRIZEMONEY.

Prizemoney??? How much prizemoney did Phar Lap win??? It's no comparison across eras man.

Hey the 2000m probably was a National record - the Flemington par times are better than most other tracks because Flemington has broader bends. That's why I mentioned that she broke the 2000m Flemington record, because it's a faster 2000m than Randwicks.

it is wen you allow for increased prizemoney and inflation. they did it and phar lap was 14m but now makybe holds the record at 14.5m


dont you read the papers??

In fact if you want to project times, on the standard times the Flemington 2000m is 1.5 seconds quicker than the Randwick 2000, SO, that makes Might And Power's 2000m win at Randwick about 0.9 seconds FASTER than Makybe's Australia Cup.

That is if you still want to talk times...

Again, prizemoney isn't an indication of ability, no matter what they do to the figures.

I find it very disappointing reading all this who's better than who. Instead of speanding so much time doing statistics to try to compare horses, take a deep breath, sit down, a have a good think about what Makybe Diva has actually achieved this week. 3 Melbourne Cups in a row! Tuesday she broke other amazing records as well, records that most punters have been using as reason to back against her! She is the first horse to win 3 Melbourne Cups in a row in around 150 years of this great race and all of us were privilaged enough to have witnessed it!

Duritz - Might and Power was an amazing horse in his own right and also achieved great things in his shortened career just like my favourite horse and i'm sure you can work out who that was. It's difficult to imagine how good both of those horses could have been as both were virtually unbeatable at the time their careers were cut tragically short. Enjoy the memories of him as the racing fan i'm sure you are like I do with Better Loosen Up but try to appreciate Makybe Diva's achievements and not compare the two.

Well said, BLU. :)

All I can say is that watching her win on Tuesday certainly pulled a few heart strings. As the saying goes "you're a long time dead"!

I read that one very smart punter backed her to win for $1. They did this so that they can hold on to that ticket for many years to come to show their kids and grandchildren as i'm sure she will be talked abot for many years to come.

Assuming that she becomes as popular as Phar Lap in the future, that persons ticket, (should they decide to sell it), will return a lot more than $3.80.

Smart thinking!

Better L U

You are right.

You can not compare different horses, trained with different philosophies, racing in different era's in differing conditions during profoundly differing National psyche contexts (i.e. Phar Lap and the Depression)....... It can not be done.

What CAN BE DONE is to enjoy and marvel in the feats of 3 wins in a row......

Hi BLU,

"Assuming that she becomes as popular as Phar Lap in the future, that persons ticket, (should they decide to sell it), will return a lot more than $3.80."

never thought of that..

what impressed me far more than her winning three Melb cups ( can be a lottery race) is the fact that she won a good 1400m race (1st up?) and the Cox Plate and the Melb cup in one preparation.

Not so smart if they got a S-TAB ticket printout...... it will only last a month and then f-a-d-e a-w-a-y.............. or it will turn black if it gets to hot........ or can't be read because it smudges and/or folds to easily........ (LOL!)

Not so smart if they got a S-TAB ticket printout...... it will only last a month and then f-a-d-e a-w-a-y.............. or it will turn black if it gets to hot........ or can't be read because it smudges and/or folds to easily........ (LOL!)

Good one Stix LOL..yep you are right..like an old fax it would fade to nothing...LOL... unlike our memories of the race which will probably stay with us to the very end..