“Truth is one forever absolute, but opinion is truth filtered through the moods, the blood, the disposition of the spectator.”


You two will have to agree to disagree. I probably thought Makybe might be a little higher but that is MY opinion. I am really enjoying reading these though Chuck.

14. MIGHT AND POWER: Excellent horse that came to fame with its 16-1 demolition of a good Caulfield Cup field in 1997, by 6 lengths. He completed the prestigious double when he went on to win the Melbourne Cup by the smallest of margins when Greg Hall thought he had won on Doreimus. Followed this up with wins in the Cox Plate, Caulfield Stks, Doomben Cup, Queen Elizabeth and the Mercedes Classic

yes he is in the top ten, around the 7 if i remember correctly. At least if the horse i think your referring to is the right one ;)

Well the one I think you could be talking about is one I am interested in but the one I was referring to is a fairly old horse widely considered somewhat underated around the country I mean I have never even seen the horse race I am just interested to see where you rate him cause my father has often said he was one of the best he ever saw.

hmmm, well i was referring to one that i think you are quite keen on.

there are two horses in the list that raced in the very early 20th century and these are the oldest....then obviously phar lap a bit later...and you may have seen the rest i think

lol Mate I am only 29 for christs sake, the horse I am talking about ran around the mid 40's to 50's I believe he was actually finished racing before my father was even born I believe just he remebers seeing footage of the horse and hearing his father talk about him.

13. NORTHERLY: Very tough West Australian horse that won 19 from 37. Main wins included 2 Cox Plates, 2 Australian Cups, 2 Underwood Stakes, a Caulfield Stakes and a Caulfield Cup

12. SCHILACI: One of the great sprinters that ended with a career total of 16 wins from 36 starts. Won major sprint races the Lightning Stks (twice), the Oakleigh Plate, the Newmarket Hcp and the Galaxy; and also 2 Futurity stks and a George Ryder

11. POSEIDON: Very good stayer that won the VRC and AJC Derbys, VRC and AJC St Legers, an Eclipse Stks, 2 Caulfield Cups and a Melbourne Cup

so, the top ten coming up....any predictions?

32 and 34, hallmark won in 33 :)

yes thats true...hall mark's time was 13 seconds faster than pp's 2nd win, but 4 seconds slower than his first :eek:

Okay the Top 10...Chuck's immortals of the Australian Turf

10. BERNBOROUGH: A fantastic horse that won 26 races from 37 starts. Won Group 1's in the Futurity Stks, Newmarket Hcp, All Aged Stks, Doomben 10,000, Doomben Cup, Caulfield Stakes, Chipping Norton and the Chelmsford Stks

Well chuck that was the horse I was waiting to see where you put him.

oh ok....i orginally had him at 9.....there has been a lot of reshuffling of this list in the past few days!

Just recapping the list so far:

30. Amounis
29. Todman
28. Hareeba
27. Tobin Bronze
26. Vo Rogue
25. Rising Fast
24. Peter Pan
23. Carbine
22. Super Impose
21. Flight
20. Rubiton
19. Chatham
18. Lonhro
17. Octagonal
16. Galilee
15. Makybe Diva
14. Might and Power
13. Northlerly
12. Schillaci
11. Poseidon
10. Bernborough
9. - 1. ???????

impressive list Chuck...wonder where Gloaming will be..and Ajax ??and Vain ??
and my all time fav Kingston Town :)

AND DONT FORGET THE MAN
 

THE KING WAS MY ALL TIME FAV BUT ALSO HAD A GREAT TIME WATCHING THE GREAT MANIKATO. REMEMBER WHEN I GOT 5/2 IN THE REID WHEN IT RACED A STAR 2 YEAR OLD CALLED RANCHER. THE MAN KICKED HIS BUTT!!! WHAT ANOTHER GREAT HORSE. CANT WAIT TO SEE WHERE THESE 2 END UP. GREAT READING TO CHUCK

9. SUNLINE: This impressive mare (one of two in the top ten) had a notable record of 32 wins from 48 starts. Won the Doncaster twice, Cox Plate twice, Coolmore Stks twice, Feehan Stks twice, Manikato Stks and Memsie Stks. As well as this, Sunline was also successful overseas, wining the Hong Kong Mile

8. AJAX: Ended career with a simply astounding 36 wins from 46 starts - a 78% winning record, and also known for being the shortest beaten favourite in Aussie racing history when going down at 40-1 on in an attempt of acheiving 17 wins in a row. Main wins included the Cox Plate, Newmarket, Sires Produce, Rosehill Guineas, Caulfield Guineas, 3 All Aged Stks, and 3 Futurity Stks

7. MANIKATO: One of the greatest all time sprinters finished with the record of 29 wins from 47 starts. Group 1 wins include the Blue Diamond, Golden Slipper, Caulfield Guineas and George Ryder. As well as this, he won 4 Futurity Stakes, and 5 William Reid Stakes!! (this race has since aptly been renamed the Manikato Stks)

6. DULCIFY: In my opionon a very underrated horse that only ran 21 times for 10 wins. Wins included the Australian Cup, Rosehill Guineas, AJC Derby, Craiglee Stks, Turnbull Stks, Mackinnon Stks and Victoria, and his best of all, a Cox Plate victory by 7 lengths

5. WAKEFUL: My best mare of all time, she won races from 1000m - 4800m in a career record of 25 wins from 44 races. Won sprint double Oakleigh Plate and Newmarket Hcp in first year of racing, middle distance group ones the Doncaster, Caulfield Stks twice, Mackinnon Stks 3 times, All Aged Stks and 2 Eclipse Stks. Also won the Sydney Cup and ran 2nd in the Melbourne Cup carrying 63.5kgs and lost to a horse 3 stone lighter.

4. TULLOCH: This sensational horse had a career record of 36 wins from 53 starts. His best wins included the Rosehill Guineas, AJC Derby, 2 Queen Elisabeth Stks, Caulfield Guineas, Caulfield Cup, VRC Derby, Mackinnon Stks and a Cox Plate

Well we have Kingston Town,Pharlap left anyone guess the other ??

Any guesses :D

Tulloch not in the top 3??? :eek:

I assume the other one is Gunsynd?

Impressive list, Chuck. Don't really agree with your order, but it's been interesting.

Gloaming would be my guess :) incredible record.
has Vain been mentioned ?? Gunsynd ,Phar lap , Kingston Town ...one of these greats are missing out on a top 30 spot .

Yeah, you've given yourself an impossible task here, Chuck.

Personally, I only really try to rate horses that have raced since I've been following the sport (late 70s) and so, for what it's worth, here is my top 30 list along with the rating that I've given them. Hope I haven't forgotten some.

01 - 64.0 KINGSTON TOWN
02 - 63.5 MAKYBE DIVA
03 - 63.5 MANIKATO
04 - 63.5 MIGHT AND POWER
05 - 63.0 BETTER LOOSEN UP
06 - 63.0 NORTHERLY
07 - 63.0 SUNLINE
08 - 62.5 DULCIFY
09 - 62.5 LET'S ELOPE
10 - 62.5 VO ROGUE

11 - 62.0 HAREEBA
12 - 62.0 LONHRO
13 - 62.0 OCTAGONAL
14 - 62.0 SAINTLY
15 - 62.0 SCHILLACI
16 - 62.0 SUPER IMPOSE
17 - 61.5 BEAU ZAM
18 - 61.5 BONECRUSHER
19 - 61.5 PLACID ARK
20 - 61.5 RED ANCHOR
21 - 61.5 RUBITON
22 - 61.5 STRAWBERRY ROAD
23 - 61.0 DORIEMUS
24 - 61.0 EMANCIPATION
25 - 61.0 FILANTE
26 - 61.0 JEUNE
27 - 61.0 LUSKIN STAR
28 - 61.0 NATURALISM
29 - 61.0 ROUGH HABIT
30 - 61.0 VEANDERCROSS

well there h ave obviously been some hard luck stories. Those unlucky to miss out include Gunsynd, Gloaming, Shannon, Wenona Girl, Strawberry Road, Better Loosen Up, Bounding Away, Emanicpation, Red Anchor the list goes on forever. In hindsight i could have obviously put it together better, there are a lot i want to change now....but ANYWAY...

3. VAIN: My best sprinter of all time, this amazing horse had 14 starts for 12 wins and 2 seconds. Bolted in in the Sires Produce and Golden Slipper as a 2YO, and capped off that season with a 10 Length win in the Champagne Stks. As well as this, had wins in the Caulfield Guineas, won the Craven A Stks by 12 Lengths, the Lithgow Stks by 6 Lenths, and won the George Adams Hcp carrying 10 Lbs over weight for age.

I did! Bounding Away and Shaftesbury Avenue would both be rated on 61kgs as well.

2. PHAR LAP: This champion horse, probably the most well known horse in Australian Turf history had a career record of 37 wins from 51 starts. His best wins included the AJC and Victoria Derby, AJC and VRC St Legers, Futurity Stks, 2 Melbourne Stks, Chippin Norton, 2 Mackinnon Stks, 3 Craven Plates, 2 Cox Plates, a Melbourne Cup and the USA G1 the Agua Caliente Hcp

Big call putting Kingston Town ahead of Phar Lap and Tulloch.

LONG LIVE THE KING IN OUR HEARTS
 

WELL I GREW UP WATCHING KINGSTON TOWN. NOW I KNOW TJ SMITH ALWAYS SAID THAT TULLOCH WAS A BETTER HORSE AND WHILE I NEVER SAW TULLOCH I CANT COMMENT ON THIS. I JUST THOUGHT MY OPINION IS THAT THE KING WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL AND CAME BACK FROM ADVERSITY TO WIN GROUP ONES INCLUDING THE COX PLATE 3 TIMES WHEN IN MY OPINION THAT THE 3 YEAR OLDS WERE BY FAR AN AWAY SOME OF THE BEST 3 YEAR OLDS I HAVE SEEN. LIKES OF GROSVENOR COSSACK PRINCE(WHO ACTUALLY HOLD A DECISION OVER THE KING) ETC.

MY OTHER OPINION IS THAT MANIKATO MAYBE SHOULD BE HIGHER ONLY ON THIS REASON. HOW MANY 2 YEAR OLDS HAVE YOU SEEN WIN THE BLUE DIAMOND OR THE GOLDEN SLIPPER FOR THAT MATTER BOTH WHICH THE MAN DID. AND THEN CONTINUE ON TO WIN GROUP ONE RACES YEAR AFTER YEAR LIKE THIS GREAT HORSE DID INCLUDING 4 WILLIAM REIDS. ESPECIALLY WHEN HE KICKED RANCHER FROM HERE TO %^$@ IN A DEVASTATING BURST OF SPEED AND STAMINA.

AS I SAID JUST MY OPINION THATS ALL.

THIS HAS BEEN VERY GOOD READING AND A JOB VERY WELL DONE. NO MATTER WHO DID THIS THERE WOULD BE DIFFERING OPINIONS. I PERSONALLY HAVE THOUGHT THAT CHUCK HAS DONE A STELLAR JOB WITH THIS AND I HAVE ENJOYED EVERYDAY OF THIS.

WELL DONE CHUCK ON A JOB THAT WAS VERY HARD TO DO!!!

yeah well done Chuck...
poor old Gloaming ..wins 57 from 67 with 9 2nds ...only defeat was when he got tangled in the ribbon they used to start the race and he still cant get into the top 30..guess he was racing to early and hard to rate the races he did win as they didnt have group races back then..

check this link out,,makes good reading...also check out the other champions listed on the site...very well done.

http://www.cyberhorse.net.au/barnes/gloaming/page1.htm

No need to SHOUT, Breadman. :D

I agree that Kingston Town was an absolute champion, and he's the best horse I've seen since I've been following racing (just ahead of Makybe Diva, Manikato and Might and Power). However, most racing people do rate Phar Lap and Tulloch higher. I remember they had a big poll a few years back in Turf Monthly and I think they may have actually had Tulloch 1, Phar Lap 2, Kingston Town 3.

Agree with the others. Well done, Chuck. It's been very interesting reading. :)

SORRY FOR SHOUTING NOT
 

CANT HELP IT MATE IM SHORT SIGHTED.

I find it hard to believe and also quite interesting that you have horses 10-3 not winning a melbourne cup, yet you have a super mare that has won 3 (THREE) at 15.... hmmmm gotta wonder..

i disagree bordi, i agree that makybe is a phenomenal horse and one of australia's greatest but in my opinion she didnt win enough and in regard to her 3 Melbourne Cups, what a feat yes but the melbolurne cup itself although australia's most famous and richest race i do not think it attracts the best horses. the melbourne cup is the type of race that belongs in Europe. Australia is a country that i believe has its best (most prestigious) races at 6 furlongs and 1 1/4 mile. the melbourne cup is on its own at 2 mile. other 2 milers ie brisbane, sydney, adelaide are mediocre by comparison. She will be regarded as one of the countries greatest, undoubtedly, but not the best

thats true. I think the Melbourne Cup is very overrated. its a race to attract and be enjoyed by the public...those that don't normally bet...the melbourne cup is about everything except the horses and jockeys...its a great spectacle, but lacks class over the entire field.....an average stayers handicap

1. KINGSTON TOWN: My best horse of all time, had a career record of 41 starts with 30 wins (despite losing its first 5 starts in melbourne). Had many great wins - his best of which were is 3 Cox Plates in 80,81,82 (now there's an achievement Bordi). His last was marked with Bill Collins calling the famous words "Kingston Town can't win........he might win yet the champ..Kingston Town's swamping them...Kingston Town!!!". Apart from the 3 cox plates, Kington Town's other best wins included the Rosehill Guineas, AJC Derby, Sydney Cup, 2 Caulfield Stks, 2 George Mains, Caulfield Cup, Spring Champion Stks, 3 Warwick Stks, 3 Chelmsford Stakes, Mercedes Classic and the Queensland Derby

AND that fact she did not lose one race in which she was trained for means nothing???? they targetted her for the melb cup because yes it is australias most prestigeous race and it is australasias most richest. im sure if they wanted to she could have one many many many cox plates as was evident in the one that just passed. the wieght for age conditions in a cox plate field will only benefit her as they can not lump 60kg on her...

she was a great mare no doubt. But the fact is she came to prominence when the very best retired. Also Elvestroem had a very good record against her and while he was a great horse he was no hall of famer. She wil be a hall of famer due to the weight of her achievements but just on pure ability I dont think she was up there with turf greats like Sunline and Northerly.