Wish I had Party. The better half backed the winner though!

I follow sectional times very closely and the previous clash between Weekend Hussler and Littorio, seen Littorio gain 6 lengths on Weekend Hussler over the final 600m. One had to back Littorio on that effort.

The previous run prior to that of Weekend Hussler where we seen the Hussler running close up on the pace, the tempo for what race was one of the slowest I have seen, it was pretty well impossible for anything to come from behind him and win that day.

It's amazing what sectional times can reveal.

Paul

It's a bad time to have a "bad run"

I think that people are starting to realise that the horse isn't the "Unbeatable Machine" that they built him up to be.

Even the trainer said he may not run in the Caulfield Cup if he draws a bad barrier AND they may have to race him off the pace...

It's a bit late for re-evaluations aint it?

I think your a bit hard on weekend hussler We cant all be perfect and neither can he. At least hes got the runs on the board as opposed to some donkeys I know are over rated. Why should we bother at all with your view on re evaluations. Maybe its a bit hard for you to appreciate a very very good horse when you see one.

It's never a good time to have a bad run...... as you point out it (fortunately/unfortunately) allows for a chance to re-evaluate where the horse is at, we all know it's not an exact science, otherwise we'd be all on Xanadu's Fisho thread..... All trainers reassess after a run, good, bad or otherwise.

I hope he comes out next start and flogs them.
You think he is overrated we all have an opinion good bad or otherwise.
You cann't argue that he isn't a very good horse. Champion well that is still in the wind, the gloss has come of after his last start. I will give him two more starts before writing him of (over 2000 mt )

There is nothing in the Hussler's breeding line that doesn't suggest 'staying'. A 3 wide run on a leader biased track didn't help. The horse was 'flat' last week after several 7 day turn-a-rounds and even the best horses in the past had those sort of poor runs. I still think the Hussler is the best horse in the country. Perhaps next start we will at least get better odds worth taking.

Hey Skytrain

I dont even think Zipping is gonna run in the Caulfield Cup.
Not in any of the markets anywhere?

yep i think you're right ,,No Zipping in CC ,,and i cant see him running in the MC either,,Loyd said after last years MC the horse can run a strong 2800m but the 2 miles is to long...
the Cox and the Mv cup i'd say ...

When the trainer comes out and suggest that they're going to ride the horse differently and they change the gear.....I guess the trainer is re-evaluating things himself, no?

As for being "over rated", that's in reference to Weekend Hussler being rated alongside Phar Lap and Kingston Town, nothing else. One can suggest a horse is over rated and at the same time still hold admiration for the horse.

Personally I rate Weekend Hussler as an excellent sprinter/miler with the ability to carry his class up to 10f. Over time they may manage to win a good race at 2000m...even a Cox Plate, but I still believe we'll see the best of him at the mile.

Has he had more than 1 this prep?

How will he go in the Cox Plate after a tough Caulfield Cup ?

On what basis could you rate Weekend Hussler as "the best in the country" when he hasn't won a race at 10f or further?

Best sprinter/miler YES...but we're stepping out of that realm and into stayer territory.

Having to give Zagreb and Guillotine 5kgs + over 12f will give him the opportunity to become a straight out champion but I'll be taking him on.

I backed Zipping a while ago as I had him in last years Melbourne Cup and thought that the obvious goal would be the Caulfield Cup this year.

Obviously Lloyd Williams wants a Cox Plate after a decade of cerise nightmares.

He did say a few weeks ago that Zipping couldn't beat Weekend Hussler at the weights in the Caulfield Cup but that was before W.H was beaten last start. Strange that the extra 400m would suit Zipping more than W.Hussler and Zipping will give Hussler weight in the Cox Plate, unlike the Caulfield Cup where Zipping would have carrier 1.5kgs less than W.H !!!

Thought he would have had a re-think. Maybe the combination of a fast tempo and a liking for the Moonee Valley circuit is what swayed Williams to by-pass the CC and focus solely on the CP....especially as Weekend Hussler will be disadvantaged by the seven day backup....or even be withdrawn if he fails miserably.

Finally, I was hoping Maldivian drew a barrier as I had no doubt that he would run a huge race in the CC (especially with no pace) but he's drawn dreadfully. I'll still have something each way because he's a class horse and he's runs haven't been all that bad at WFA but the work he has to do at the start of the race could tell over the last furlong.

MY SELECTIONS (dead track or better)

ZAGREB (with blinkers)
GUILLOTINE
MALDIVIAN
NOM DU JEU

No champion yet but WH is easily the best horse in the country based on earnings and the group races won up until now. How the horse will go in the Cups and the Cox plate is unknown. I think WH should have been set for the Cox only, not the cups. Asking a bit much I think.

Best horse in the country....That's a huge call and subjective at best.

Two years ago Efficient was in the middle of his very first preparation which saw him finish with five wins from six starts. Included in those wins were the G2 Moonee Valley Vase 2040m and a devestating victory in the G1 VRC Derby.

12 months later he was just as impressive taking out the Melbourne Cup.

While his winning ratio took a hit during that 12 month period there's no doubt that connections were willing to sacrifice that statistic for the greater good. Go through the history books and you'll find that it takes a special horse to win both a Derby and a Melbourne Cup and that's exactly what Efficient is....a special horse.

Weekend Hussler has dominated the G1 races he has contested from 1100m to 1800m but just as Efficient struggles over the shorter trips I believe you'll see Weekend Hussler struggle over the staying trips. In W.H's favour is the number of G1 events over suitable distances which gives the impression that he is a superior racehorse.

The simple fact is that no other major racing country in the world has a racing program where stayers are left in the cold. A good example is Melbourne's Autumn carnival where you have four G1 sprints over a five week period....it's insane !!! Meanwhile races like the Brisbane Cup are downgraded and the first leg of the Sydney 3yr old Triple Crown (Canterbury Guineas, now Randwick Guineas) is shortend from 1900m to 1600m. It should be noted that the Randwick Guineas was one of the G1's Weekend Hussler added to his CV.

When you look at Australasia's great thoroughbred champions you don't start at Manikato or Schillaci. Sure they were great speed machines and our champion sprinter/milers have a huge part to play in Australian racing but it's when the thoroughbred steps up to 2000m + that their ability is truely put to the test.

Tulloch, Phar Lap, Wakeful, The Barb, Carbine and more recently Octagonal, Sunline, Lonhro, Northerly and Makybe Diva all had the speed to win over the mile while possessing enough stamina to capture G1 events from 2000m up to 4800m. Wakeful, the greatest mare ever to race anywhere in the world won the Oakleigh Plate/ Newmarket Handicap double (both over 1200m at the time) then followed it up by winning another 23 stakes races including three over 4800m!

What's this got to do with Weekend Hussler ? Plenty. As a gelding Weekend Hussler's connections have plenty of time to amass a similar record if he is good enough but until he wins a G1 over 2000m or further he can never stand among the great champions of the past, especially in an era where our quality stayers are few and far between. Efficient is one of those rarities and his two G1's could be seen just as valuable as Weekend Husslers seven.

As for being set for the Cox Plate alone....I totally agree. I think connections got caught up in the hype. To have the horse run over 12f for the first time in a Caulfield Cup is insane. He won't win.

ZAGREB
GUILLOTINE
MALDIVIAN
NOM DU JEU

and I'll add RED RULER although I can't get help but think the No.1 barrier will see the big horse struggle for the room he needs. If the MRC don't flood the track he's a great each way hope.... although I've heard that regardless of the weather we'll get a track that rates dead/slow for the first race of the day.

THE END.

G'day Skytrain,
With all due respect to your comments I think that due to current economics and mind-thoughts the era/future of champion aussie stayers is very limited and may be in decline.
If a trainer has one of potential then in this day and age he can chase those big money events all over the globe if he/she chooses.
While I lament the demise of the stayers' ranks in Oz we now have some of the best sprinter/milers in the world as borne out with our antipodean "raiders" which have plundered the best races in the northern hemisphere in recent years.
I can't see this changing in the immediate future so with the influx of international "raiders" for our carnival it reinforces the fact that racing today is truly international and everyone is much better off for this(imo).

Cheers.

It's in the balance, ain't it.

On one hand you have the influence of studs like Arrowfield that would be happy if every G1 race was from 1000m to 1600. On the other hand you've those like Darley Stud that won't be sending 100 female quarter horses to Lonhro or Octagonal.

You know there's a problem when there's greater prize money for a 2yr old sprint than the AJC Derby.

Quote:

If a trainer has one of potential then in this day and age he can chase those big money events all over the globe if he/she chooses. While I lament the demise of the stayers' ranks in Oz we now have some of the best sprinter/milers in the world as borne out with our antipodean "raiders" which have plundered the best races in the northern hemisphere in recent years. I can't see this changing in the immediate future so with the influx of international "raiders" for our carnival it reinforces the fact that racing today is truly international and everyone is much better off for this(imo). Cheers.

Name the five biggest races in the world:

Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe 12f
Kentucky Derby 12f
Japan Cup 12f
Melbourne Cup 16f
Dubai World Cup 10f

When was the last time we won one of the above? It's all well and good to go over to Royal Ascot and win the King Stand Stakes but until last year the race wasn't even worthy of G1 status.

As for having the best sprinter/milers in the world, that's debatable as the US have some awesome dirt sprinters. Because we have an obsession with 2yr olds many of them don't cut it once they're fully matured.

Things were looking good a few years ago when we had Sunline, Lonhro, Tie The Knot, Shogun Lodge, Northerly, Defier, Fields Of Omagh, Mummify, Elvstroem, Grand Armee.....then they all disappeared and all that was left was Makybe Diva who was declared a legend after beating some of the weakest opposition in living history.

Is history repeating with Weekend Hussler ?

We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the upcoming weeks.
However, why do you think the overseas "raiders" venture "downunder?"
It is because they perceive the prospect of relatively "easy pickings" against what we have to offer.
I see nothing wrong with that because the kiwi stayers dominated our staying races for decades...and to some extent continue to do so.
It makes for competitive international racing and our local scene is much the better for it.

Cheers.

I for one don't give Weekend Hussler a hope in aaaa of winning this race on the weekend and I reckon i'll go as far as saying he won't run a place either, His stamina is nowhere near what most of the stayers are in this field but outside of that as has been pointed out his type of horse doesn't win these tough grueling staying test, He is a sit sprint miler who can probably get the 2000 in a slowly run WFA event.

it is a completely different story in the handicaps and almost always in ones of this magnitude there is almost always pressure galore in these races with stamina making a massive difference over the concluding stages of the race when the dash is gone.

I am a big fan of the kiwis in this race and alot of people say that they haven't done anything here in melbourne for so long but they haven't had the talent they have bought out here this year either.

Maybe they poured a heap of work into him before his last start which left him wanting at the end, all in preparation for him to run out the 2400m? Just a thought. Althought the last 150m didn't look convincing for me to have a go at him in the CC. Great thing about people and in particular punters is the different presepctives people have. This thread has been fantastic for debate and have really enjoyed - in the most part - the reasonabilty in the posts, thankfully the cheapshots have been absent, thanks Skytrain et al.

I have had a little go at Mad Rush, barrier and first look at track against him, but at $25 he's worth a look IMHO.

Good luck Lads.

I like Mad Rush too Stix. With Oliver on board, even from barrier 17 he can't be ignored. Zagreb is my other fancy over Master O'Reilly [big weight rise].

Interestingly, WH gets a tongue tie tomorrow so maybe apart from a poor steering effort last start, WH might have got his tongue over the bit partly blocking breathing. Can't see a win though with 57kg and a bad barrier. In doubt for the Melbourne Cup because it might take the stuffing out of the horse for next year. I think WH's staying capacity is too early to call all things considered.

With Oliver on board he'll probably come 2nd! :D

i like mad rush, but i think they are just looking for a good performance before the melbourne cup

Going over the race for the final time, taking into consideration the rail out six and a firm track, I surprised myself with the runner that kept jumping out at me....

ICE CHARIOT.

The horse is so much better on firm going and I'll be having a good crack at him each way. The horse to beat is....

GUILLOTINE.

While the big money has come for my original selection

ZAGREB

For my exotics I'll be throwing in the three Kiwis...

RED RULER, NOM DU JEU and BOUNDLESS.

As for Weekend Hussler I predict that they'll want him riden close to the lead and if they go slow he'll put in a good show for his fans on what should be a leaders track. Littorio and Maldivian are the best of the rest.

While I should be here gloating about my successful prediction regarding Weekend Hussler's demise (Thumps and all) I've got bigger issues.


ZAGREB :mad:

Since August 9 I've had these two little bits of paper in my wallet, the first a TAB ticket explaining how I've backed a horse named Zagreb in the Caulfield Cup at $60, the amount to be returned if successful $1,800. The second is a similar bet but at $70 for the Melbourne Cup, this one to return 1,400 if successful.

Now I know it aint an amount to get all suicidal about but I rather enjoyed the idea of having one of the race favourites go around for me at 60/1 (you feel smarter than you know you really are) The night before my wife said not to get my hopes up as he'd probably get hit by lightning or come into some other bad luck just as Mouwad did the day before the Doncaster and Redoute's Choice did the day before the Australian Guineas...and how Shogun Lodge dropped dead as did Unworldly, Oscar Schindlar never made it to race day while Doriemus was nosed out of the big race....

Every one of these horses had been backed for their up coming race by myself at fixed odds (majority were second legs with bookies after winning the first leg) and I'd be cirtain that my wife was a double agent for the bookies had my bets been for reasonable sums....alas that wasn't the case BUT it doesn't make things any easier.

Oh yeah, she also blames me for her father's unraced 2yr old dropping dead of a heart attack during track work...but I didn't name the stupid thing EXPLOADABUL. No it ain't rubbish. Had just been transferred to the Mick Price stable from pre training with Ledger and was flying. Was thought to be a real chance for the Blue Diamond and was in the market at 60/1. Why shouldn't I have had a couple of dollars on it.....the last 2yr old they had was Principality and it won the stupid race.

But as I'm reminded that was still 12 months before I met my wife.