u r a "dinosaur" mate......u r stuck in the 50-60's.
Who are the big spenders today...."Gen Y" or are you so out of touch that you haven't grasped this reality?
Also, I believe the 21st century facilities of some of our race-clubs are under-utilised. Their marketing dept should be targeting weddings, conferences which provide turnover for otherwise "quiet" periods.
In other words these facilities should be active every day of the week.

Cheers.

No more long black in a paper cup take-away?

Many race clubs utilize their facilities as often as they can.

I've been to both my daughters graduation nights at Caulfield race course, many exhibitions at a number of race courses including Caulfield, Sandown and Mornington here in Melbourne to name a few.

Race track attendance has certainly become very seasonal. I know Caulfield (perhaps due to it's location and easy public transport) manages to attract quite a few non-racing events. They are big buildings and big spaces though and you wonder how much need there is for this type of space given the better equiped purpose built event spaces that are available.

You wonder how Moonee Valley hangs on. If one was to go that would surely be it.

u r right mate, I, personally have had many enjoyable days at that track and likewise M.V. so I have no complaints.
There are so many options for the big spending "Gen Y," rather arrogant(imo) "highflyers" that I personally don't want to be a part of it.

Cheers.

I reckon you should take a couple of weeks off (I assume you're working) and follow the roadshow around the state. I'm not sure where you're from but in Victoria you would have a race meeting to go to every day (except maybe Mondays).

You could clean up. :)

Yes I have been to a number of functions at Caulfield as well, like graduations etc.
In fact their facilities are excellent.
I think the problem lies all in the marketing.
Their marketing vision is quite confused and is not hitting the spot.

For example: the free day that Black Caviar had at Caulfield was well known amongst racing circles, some others knew of it, but they certainly didn't market it well enough nor capitalize enough on it.

I also think they need to separate the events audience from the racing audience.
At present they are attracting a majority of audiences that are binge drinking party animals who will be there until they have responsibilities and mortgages.
They are also not regular racegoers.

It seems they've given up on regular crowds and are looking to make the dough in one week a year with sponsorships and over priced entry and booze.

They forget that the binge goers will never go more than once a year and have it set in the back of their minds that going to the races is very expensive before they even have a bet, if they ever do.

I agree, get that generation into the venues for concerts, parties, weddings, other functions.
The whole racing concept is something entirely different.

But then again with all the anti gambling ads, and all the anti gambling warnings between every single race, is it any wonder people turn off.
Maybe it helps some people, but it destroys my enjoyment of the races.

A bit like going to the drag races and having a loud announcement ad of Speed Kills between every race for 30 seconds.
Or every lap of Bathurst.

Anyway, I think they need to market racing, ownership, apprenticeships, offer more on racedays. Allow marquees of stud farms, TAFE courses, syndications, etc etc.

Or pretty soon except for Carnival week, we will have Moonee Valley slots, like the USA.

Read my mind The Ocho, planning to spend my next holidays roaming around Victoria as with a little planning one can usually get from one track to the next within a reasonable amount of time.

& had a laugh at the comments about Mooney Valley as it was the first Melbourne track I went to maybe 20 years ago & yeh I am sure that is the same carpet - Its a great little track but needs a major face-lift.

Isn't Moonee Valley being pulled down and rebuilt after the Cox Plate this year?

Surely they won't re-use the same old carpet!

Hopefully the new amenities will cater for all needs.

Interesting we haven't heard yet from MR RUBBLE,
The original author of this thread.

Hope your ok Barny and what do you think of some,
Of the interesting ideas thrown around by the members.

Cheers.

Blimey.Stone the crows.
Weddings ,Banquets, Deb Balls etc.on Australian Race Tracks.
Enough ta make a old punter roll over in his grave.

If you want to step way back in time go to Aqueduct in New York. Stuck somewhere in the 70's but without the crowds.

But back to the topic, besides those already winning consistently, do any of the others really want to win?, and are prepared to work for it?, and not just dream of a set and forget robot?. I'll see what the response is like before handing over a (what I think is) very simple method that will make consistent profits, but the catch is you have to work at it, you have to think, you have to get over the "boredom". Guaranteed. It's not for those who give up after one losing race, or one losing day, or possibly one losing week.

Watch this space.

:eek:

I'm watching Mark

Me too!!

Mark, many years ago you put on this forum a suggestion that you could do well laying horses that (for weekdays) had a strike rate of one in ten or worse; and for Sats 1 in 6 or worse. and some special other requirements for maidens.

I have often used it with success; but was scared off by the fact that many of the selections were quite high to lay --- yet to get full value from the idea you had to lay them too. Have you developed that idea at all?

Well I know I am not alone when it comes to fighting the boredom of a day at the pc battling away at the horses (& is probably why I enjoy being at the track as it's much less work;)) & as I work to one extent or another pretty much every race in QLD/NSW/VIC 5-6 days of the week, while it can become a chore I am always looking to add more strings to my bow, so bring it on Mark:)

I spend a bit of time on the races myself.
10 minutes getting the scratchings and selections and another 10 minutes getting the best price - Sometimes if I feel lazy I might stretch it to a half hour.
One doesnt want to stretch the brain too much.

Cheers
darky

I'm always looking for something to add to the portfolio Mark. Sounds good.

This thread certainly has gone all over the place.

There's a bit more to it than that merriguy, but yes they are part of what I do.

Hi Mark,

Not taking the Michael, however from your previous posts you seem to win almost every day. You are of course, operating from the Death Star :) on the 'dark side' of the equation as it were, being a layer/bookie.

In regards to Merriguy's post, I believe your comments regarding midweek lay rules (haven't won in the last year, or last 10 runs etc.) were that they were too unpredictable to lay.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/rebuttle and while I have my tongue slightly in cheek with this post, I do greatly respect your punting knowledge from reading your countless previous posts!

The Schmile

This is for layers.
Someone mentioned using the markets, and that's pretty much what I do, with a little of my own input on Saturday's & Holiday's.

I'll stick to the basis of laying for $100.

Lay the fav to pay $110
2nd fav to pay $105
3rd fav to pay $102
Rest to pay $100

For beginners it's that simple.

For the more experienced or adventurous use some discretion.

Lay the fav to pay $110.
You like the 2nd fav so only lay to pay $100.
You think the 3rd fav is unders so lay to pay $105 or even $110.
You don't like the fav, lay to pay $120.
There's a 20/1 shot you think is overs so lay to pay $90 or $95.
etc..... the permutations are endless, but always have the first couple in the market right up there.

The more % you have on your side, the less you risk and the more you win.
Doing this even on a bad day you can't do much damage.

I do this on US races in the morning, AUS races during the day, and UK races into the night. I usually (but not always) have Friday and Sunday off, due to preparing and then getting over Saturday.

No form study required unless you want to.
Have the bulfk of the field, and sometimes the whole field running for you.
Treat it as a job or a business.
Keep records.

Another variation is to lay everthing except the first few in the market to lose $100. Then lay the first few in the market to gradually pay out more than the previous in the market.
eg 4th pick is $10 so bet is $100/11, pay out is $111.
Lay 3rd pick to pay $113.
Lay 2nd pick to pay $115.
Lay fav to pay $120.
Or thereabouts.

Either method you can turn a profit when something that is at long odds that you give no chance to wins.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for going so in depth.

I'll have a peruse in between win bets.

I vaguely recall you said in a previous post you play 15-20 races per day/country. Do you try to ascertain weak fav's to gain an advantage, or simply play the percentages?

The Schmile

Here are my bets from the US this morning, rounded up/down.
2.28..........97
6.4............32
130...........1.50
36.............5.50
4.8............44
100............2
14.5...........14
12.5...........16

hold $207, lost $4 when 4.80 won.

6.2..........82
2.45........225
21...........24
29...........17
50...........10
3.05........172

hold $530, won $5 when 3.05 won.

3.65.......91
48..........6.25
15.5.......19
24..........12.5
6.6.........47
5.6.........57
17..........17.5
21..........14.25
5.7.........56

Hold $321, won $23 when 17 won.

I usually stop when ahead on the US.
+$24 for 15 minutes work after I got out of bed, not knowing anything about the runners.

I will add that midweek I don't even look at our races until R5, don't bet omn maidens, and don't bet unless at least 30% of favs have won in the races run before the first R5 is run. If few have won I have the day off, if 30% or more have won I get stuck in. That's just me.

Saturday's I get stuck in from R1, but limit myself to Syd, Melb & Bris, and "big" races from anywhere else.

Feel free to ask questions, even rubbish this (I don't care, my BF account tells me otherwise). I will even put up my results on requested races from the last few weeks if you like (if I did bet on them).

I'll add that this is not the only way to win but it's more or less what I do.

How many will take note?, very few. How many will be doing this and still doing it in a year from now, probably nobody.

Every race is different, every day is different, which makes what I do very hard to mechanise. I approach every race differently to the previous race.
An average is hard to gauge but if pressed I would say I average 5-6 US (6-7 days per week) 6-10 AUS races (4-5 days per week) Saturday is usually 20+, and 6-8 UK races (6-7 days per week).

Cheers for the insight Mark

Wonder if you traded the Oakleigh Plate last Sat & if so would mind sharing your approach to that race.

Top stuff Mark.
Hope this doesn't wreck the prices for you, as I see by the amount of views that there is quite a lot of interest in your method.
Cheers.

norisk, a big result as I liked the winner, plus the % was good.

I'll list as numbers only.
1.....$1682 @ 3.58
2.....$246 @ 24
3.....$90 @ 66
4.....$212 @ 28
5.....$225 @ 26
6.....$1863 @ 3.21
7.....$163 @ 36
8.....$34 @ 177
9.....$226 @ 26
10....$158 @ 38
11....$393 @ 15
13....$203 @ 29
14....$94 @ 64
15....$62 @ 97
16....$96 @ 62
17....$317 @ 19
18....$64 @ 92

Hold $6128
4 wins pay out $5936

As I said, very few will actually give it a go, and competition is good.

Fair enough, but thanks again for sharing anyhow.

Hi Mark,


Very insightful, loving it.

Hi Mark,

Completely agree!!

Each race is its own unique puzzle, that's why I love doing the form so much. When you can isolate a good thing at a decent price that the market has totally ignored there's no better feeling for mine.

Yesterday I had the most bizarre/awesome day 16 bets for 5 winners:

I started with 6 losers in a row, followed by 4 winners in a row, at $3, $9, $6 and $36 (magnetosphere). A 4 leg all-up would have netted $5831/1. WOWSERS. I only backed them straight out however I was extremely happy at the end of the day!!

So forgive me if my post was a little strange last night, I was celebrating long into the night. I still haven't quite come down....

I admit I do love the thrill of a win, as well as a little financial kick so at present I stick to backing winners.

I'd wish you best of luck with your methods Mark, however it appears you have this game well and truly SUSSED!!

Today I only have 5 bets. 2 have run and 1 has saluted at over $4. So I'll lose a little or break even at worst.

The Schmile

Yes thanks Mark. Appreciated.

Whenever people speak of spoiling dividends I always think of Crash (of happy memory) who used to say that you could chalk a winning system on the footpath outside Randwick on a Saturday, and it would make no difference to the outcome in money terms --- probably right too!!

Thanks sincerely.

Interesting stuff Mark.

I'd like to play Devil's Advocate if you don't mind.
I'd also like to preface it with the statement that I know what you do works and has done for many years.

a) isn't this similar to laying to liability rather than payout because of the staking?
b) I notice that the staking is only a sideline, the actual knack is getting the market percentage to 102.68% in the Oakleigh Plate example.
This is not an easy task for most people, because the odds are always floating.
c) Have you noticed the chances of getting good market percentages shrinking over the last 6 months?
d) What do you do with odds on favourites, do you lay them all, lay them selectively or ignore them completely?

As you know I have been laying the field for a few years, and the penalty is the rollercoaster when using Betfair SP liability.
I think I have solved that portion of it.
I'll expand on this later, but this is your spotlight ;)

Well done.

I would say this is spot on, except in the circumstance where it can be automated. In Mark's case it cannot, but be vewy vewy carefuw, Elmer Fudd is hunting systems.
I have seen this happen.

Yes, thanks Mark.

Doesn't laying races with small liquidity i.e. USA create problems? If you are going to lay the field how can you guarantee that you will obtain the desired prices, especially as the prices are continually changing? And how can you be sure every horse will be layed before they jump? Do you hit the Place Bets button once or several times (if trying to get the best Lay price)?

Mark, I've always been intrigued how you can get an "all green" field, especially on sporting/special events where the start-time is days in the future.

I presume you do not touch S.P. laying because there can be no trading except somehow combining it with the Exchange?

Thanks again for your input.

Merriguy
I'm not sure now and have no time to hunt for the exact quote but I think he referred to the behavior of an average punter and in that he was absolutely right.
Nothing will shake the beliefs and change the habits of an average punter.

Thank God for that!

On the other hand if you have a good idea keep it to yourself.
Sorry to say, revealing it to all and sundry WILL change odds. May not matter much on a metro race but it certainly matters weekdays.